Non-Imm O Multi to Non-Imm B IN-COUNTRY: any success stories?

[ramr]

My non-O marriage multi-entry visa is running out next month, and extending it to a standard marriage visa in-country is not an option.  I live in Isaan but am interviewing in BKK, and if hired would want to move there and get a non-B for employment *without leaving the country*.  As you probably know, getting a visa out of country in Laos would be madness: 60,000-100,000 in testing/documentation/quarantine, plus 1 month lost from work in quarantine, which a potential employer wouldn't go for and wouldn't be worth it to me anyway.

1.  Anyone heard of this being done in-country recently?  As a friend "who has a friend in immigration" has told me, they are being generally more lenient with in-country visa transfers due to COVID, which does make sense.

2.  If no one knows, do you know the best way to contact the relevant immigration office in BKK to get, well, I guess something at least approaching an answer, before I go to BKK?  

Thanks in advance for any help or advice...

 

[ubonjoe]

You cannot change a category non-o visa to a non-b visa without leaving the country.

You could apply for a extension of stay based upon working with a non-o visa entry. 

You can also apply for a work permit and work with a non-o visa or extension of stay based upon marriage. It is also possible use the income from working to meet the 40k baht income requirement for an extension of stay based upon marriage.

 

[JackThompson]

I have seen some 'law firm' sites claiming they can get this done.  Whether this has changed due to current circumstances is unclear - but I doubt it would be cheap.  My company inquired pre-covid, and the price-tag was high enough, that they dismissed it out-of-hand as insane. 

 

There is no legal reason, of which I am aware, why those with non-imm entries of one type cannot get a new extension based on another valid non-imm reason.  But, in practice, only agents/lawyers can get this done.

That said, if the labor-dept will process your applicacation, you could work legally on a Non-O family-based permitted-stay.  The issue may be due to being on a 'covid-extension', currently. 

The enter-before date your "visa" could be used to enter the country again is irrelevant - only the "permitted stay" stamp immigration put in your passport matters, in this context.

Edited August 18, 2020 by JackThompson

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

But, in practice, only agents/lawyers can get this done.

That is not correct info. Many people have applied for a extension based upon working with a non-o visa based upon marriage without needing a agent or lawyer.

[ramr]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You cannot change a category non-o visa to a non-b visa without leaving the country.

You could apply for a extension of stay based upon working with a non-o visa entry. 

You can also apply for a work permit and work with a non-o visa or extension of stay based upon marriage. It is also possible use the income from working to meet the 40k baht income requirement for an extension of stay based upon marriage.

 

Ubonjoe once again with the succinct and timely info.  Thank you.

The multi-entry O is a strange beast, unique among the visas in that it is subject to those every-90-days border runs, and in some senses one could argue it's not a genuinely long-term visa...which certainly seems to be the unofficial view of the officialdom in Thailand.  I'm hoping your information about O extensions would apply to the multi-entry as well, given that it doesn't appear to be well-liked by many in Immigration.  If they granted either the work or marriage extensions you describe, I'm wondering how long it would be valid for (under normal circumstances, I mean, as it would be unfair to ask you to predict what they would do in times of COVID).

Any further ideas on this?  Thanks again.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by ramr
clarity

[ubonjoe]

7 hours ago, ramr said:

I'm hoping your information about O extensions would apply to the multi-entry as well, given that it doesn't appear to be well-liked by many in Immigration. 

It doesn't matter how many entries your non-o visa allows. For all intents and purposes it is useless after you enter the country.

 

7 hours ago, ramr said:

If they granted either the work or marriage extensions you describe, I'm wondering how long it would be valid for (under normal circumstances, I mean, as it would be unfair to ask you to predict what they would do in times of COVID).

It will be one year from the date your current permit to stay ends or now from the date you apply if your entry has expired,

[ramr]

Angels do walk among us, and I think Ubonjoe might be one.

[JackThompson]

19 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is not correct info. Many people have applied for a extension based upon working with a non-o visa based upon marriage without needing a agent or lawyer.

I was referring to obtaining a Non-B extension in-country, with regard to needing an agent/lawyer. 

 

I also suggested he also inquire with the labor-office for a WP under Non-O - though not sure if they will do it, if he is on a "covid-extension" currently, based on some reports.  There may be 'agents' for this as well, but my experience with the Labor-Office in-person was positive (pre-covid).

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I was referring to obtaining a Non-B extension in-country, with regard to needing an agent/lawyer. 

A non-b visa is not extended.

Only a permit to stay is extended. A extension of a permit to stay from a non-o visa can be extended based upon working without a lawyer or agent.

[problemfarang]

this is what happened to me:

i have non-o multi + work permit and 14 years in thailand

 

I went to Khon Kaen and Nonthaburi immigrations:

 

Nonthaburi: They told me they will not do anything with my visa and i have to go out and come back again to thailand. Reason is my visa is expired. Asked them if i can extend my visa due to my work with non-o, again no i cannot. cannot extend visiting family 60 days here too

 

Khon Kaen: they told me expired visa is not a problem they can help. When i went there they told me my bank statement is not showing 40K but actually it was. I showed them my government salary slip with more than 40K income, again no. they told me they only care the number on the bank statement. I told them when my income comes i pay things auto and thats the reason. Again, no. Asked them if i can extend my visa due to my work, no. Im pretty sure they did a maistake about salary but we all know no is a no. cannot extend visiting family 60 days here too

 

Went to Chang Wattana, asked them if i can extend my visa  due my work or salary. They told me cannot due to work need non-b. Though they told me expired visa is no problem can help, bank statment is no problem here (!!) BUT this time its my house location is problem, my house is in nonthaburi.

 

Both Khon Kaen and Nonthaburi IO suggested me to go to chang wattana and extend my visa due to my work, but chang wattana says no. This also confirmed by my company HR department. They tried for others but no success. 

 

I was ready to go out of thailand after sept 26 but one of my friend in the office suggested me an agency which did his visa. I talked with them, she told me it will take 2 weeks for my 1 year non-o visa to get. for my situation it will cost me 29K (price up to the situation) I gave the green light, goy my bank book, atm card, passport and copy of my wife ID and house book. After 2 days sms came and saying 400K in my bank account. 2 days later its gone lol. Well, in 3 days it will be full 1 month and i will take my passport back this friday or next wednesday. so it was not 2 weeks. they are also doing my 90 days reports as well. They told me my passport is in khon kaen immigration, i was like LOL now i understand why they said no to my correct bank statement. 

 

contact me if you need their contact info.

 

that was my story of my extension non-o multi expired visa. 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by problemfarang

[JackThompson]

22 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

A non-b visa is not extended.

Only a permit to stay is extended. A extension of a permit to stay from a non-o visa can be extended based upon working without a lawyer or agent.

I was referring to changing to a non-b based extension of stay - cannot be done in-country w/o agent.  At the BOI, obtaining an extension or WP with a non-o - is impossible (sans-agent, who will switch you to a non-b extension). 

 

As to obtaining an extension for reason of Thai-family based on working in Thailand - what is needed seems to vary by office.  IF your employer can qualify using the regular labor-office, AND one can get a work-permit to spite being on a covid-extension, it may be possible (but not via BOI).

My boss was quoted a princely-sum to get it 'fixed' by a lawyer, to spite my meeting all qualifiations (live with Thai wife, have well-over the required income).  I had everything reported here as needed (at the time) - tried doing it "legit" in-person, and was denied at CW-BKK. 

This guy got one at CW-BKK sans-agent - where the OP will be working - not a simple thing - and nearly-exactly the same hurdles thrown at me @ramr:

 -

[BaiLao]

I can share an UNSUCCESSFUL story: trying to convert a Non Imm O-A into a Non Imm B for work permit, in country. All relevant paperwork and support from employer was there.

Absolutely no way - and the various 'lawyers' said much the same thing. Leave, get a Non Imm O, or even a tourist visa - and return. Crazy. Lost the job as a result. Good luck in your quest...

[Max69xl]

23 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I have seen some 'law firm' sites claiming they can get this done.  Whether this has changed due to current circumstances is unclear - but I doubt it would be cheap.  My company inquired pre-covid, and the price-tag was high enough, that they dismissed it out-of-hand as insane. 

 

There is no legal reason, of which I am aware, why those with non-imm entries of one type cannot get a new extension based on another valid non-imm reason.  But, in practice, only agents/lawyers can get this done.

That said, if the labor-dept will process your applicacation, you could work legally on a Non-O family-based permitted-stay.  The issue may be due to being on a 'covid-extension', currently. 

The enter-before date your "visa" could be used to enter the country again is irrelevant - only the "permitted stay" stamp immigration put in your passport matters, in this context.

Don't listen to "law firms". They give you incorrect info on purpose to make you believe that they are the only solution. 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

Don't listen to "law firms". They give you incorrect info on purpose to make you believe that they are the only solution. 

In  general, I agree.  But after you try at immigration, and they are not going to do it ("must go out for a new visa" or whatever blocker), you look for other options. 

 

For non-b and non-o-family extensions (or Non-B 90-days, if switching from a TR entry) at CW-Bangkok, the 'law firms' (vs 'agents') appear to be the only ones with connections needed.  Welcome to hear of any agents in Bangkok who can do these, though.

Edited August 19, 2020 by JackThompson

[White Tiger]

Yes it's possible. I have done it. At Khon Kaen immigration.

 

Briefly my situation was: 

 

I entered on a Non imm O (marriage). My permission to stay had been extended more than once. I was working as teacher and I had a work permit.  Then my wife died.  My school were very supportive and a Thai teacher went along with me to immigration and explained the situation.  I had my wife's death certificate. 

 

Immigration in Khon Kaen extended my permission to stay in the country for another year and marked on the stamp in my passport that I was working as a teacher.  they did not require me to leave the country.

 

This all happened before the border controls due to covid19 came into effect it was before anyone had even heard of covid19.

 

[ramr]

Thank you all very much for all the insights and sharing your experiences; very helpful especially to compare experiences at CW vs other immigration offices as well.  

Armed with this new information, the situation looks like what I had feared but was still hoping against:    absolutely 100% legal to do on the books (ext. of stay based on either work/marriage per Ubonjoe), but sketchy, arbitrary, and uncertain in actual practice.  I have enough info to make my decision now.  Thanks again!

 

[ramr]

On 8/19/2020 at 10:40 AM, JackThompson said:

 

I also suggested he also inquire with the labor-office for a WP under Non-O - though not sure if they will do it, if he is on a "covid-extension" currently, based on some reports.  There may be 'agents' for this as well, but my experience with the Labor-Office in-person was positive (pre-covid).

If you add my experience and my best friend's experience together (3 different provinces, at least 6 different jobs/work permits between us), Labor Office has always given a work permit based on a multi-entry O by reason of marriage.  Getting a WP with a Non-O was never the issue.

 

Never mind, I suddenly understood that you probably meant doing the WP *first* and then the visa extension at CW would maybe yield better results than doing it in the reverse order, which is what I was initially talking about.  Labor Offices here are waaaaayyy more helpful than Immigration, I agree, and for me they've always been humane/smart enough to issue a WP end date equal to the contract end (usually 1 year), even though that will always be later than one's most current "permission to stay" stamp when on a multi-entry non-O. 

Going in to CW armed with a valid, 1 year WP seems like it would be the only way I'd have a chance of breaking down their rumored recalcitrance ...at least without resorting to an, um, indirect donation to the Immigration Retirement Fund.  Or a lawyer.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by ramr
clarity