Phuket immigration-- Need to show 12 months of transfers from abroad for Non O married to Thai

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, Yorkshire Tea said:

And how will they survive?  I live on a tight family budget, & still transfer more than the required 480,000 baht a year.  Just haven't done it as a regular 40,000 a month, as I didn't need to do it that way before.

SiSaKet IO also requires the 12-months of monthly income transfers when applying for the 1-year extension of stay, but allows - as the regulations mention but often denied by other IOs - averaging those transfers and as long as you are over 480K in the 12 preceding months you are good to go.

[Peter Denis]

11 hours ago, cognito said:

Came here on ABTC when my wife took a job here - since defunct.

was at phuket to get it from the horse's mouth last week re retirement visa.

took 2 years 'proof' of pension @ B100,000. (only had a bank account here for a few days.)

IO says no good.

So what is required?

Looks down and sideways ..."6 months deposits in Thai bank account". (????)

How to do when cannot get bank account?

'<deleted>-off' look on face.

I left.

Spoke to agents before that. Not keen to hand over passport illegally at such a cost. 

No doubt this is orchestrated regionally at least. Now with 2 months deposits rejected, agent only possible chance. 

Just wanted to alert here to the '6 months' random demand.

If you are NOT a US, UK or Australian citizen, you can apply at your Embassy for the Embassy issued foreign-income statement.  With that Embassy letter there is no need to provide evidence of having parked or transferred money to a personal thai bank-account.

Normally IO will then handle your application without any further questions asked.

However IO might ask you for some evidence of how you 'survived' without any funds on a bank-account, but ATM-slips or other means of how you had access to money coming from abroad would be accepted.

[Peter Denis]

11 hours ago, khunyod said:

One possible motive (or at least result) for the now widespread refusal (of 2 months @ 40k deposits) is to force people into the agencies, increasing the income at the IOs. Other commentors above have mentioned as such.

That's possible but not likely, as this 12-month of income transfers is now also asked at IOs with no agent connections. 

Imo it is more likely that Immigration HQ has issued an internal order to 'crack down' on ME Non Imm O marriage holders now applying for the 1-year extension of stay and wanting them to meet the same requirements that 'regular' holders of a marriage extension need to comply with.

Such an internal HQ order would explain this sudden change of policy/practice from 2 months to 12 months income transfers for a first time application.

But obviously the timing is most unfortunate (or is it deliberate?) because those ME Non Imm O Marriage holders that already used up their 60-days extension of stay, are now with their backs against the wall as there isn't enough time left before Amnesty expiry to meet the 2 month seasoning requirement when using the alternative 400K funds-in-bank method.

[trucking]

17 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

they may as well as make hay while the sun shines because imo this glaring 'leaky bucket' immigration go around will get eventually highlighted in some manner causing a huge face loss and the shutting down of this practice..

 

As the number of foreigners in country continues to diminish as more fall victim to moving goal posts , then agents will find their prey becoming extinct and they in turn will feel the pinch.

 

So long as Thailand continues to be ruled by a xenophobic military sponsored government there will be no let up. Those who are currently not having any visa issues will be next up once the current house cleaning is over.

[hereforgood]

On 8/20/2020 at 8:23 AM, steelepulse said:

Regardless of what the law and  actual order state, it seems Phuket immigration can make up their own rules.

Not only Phuket office they all have the green light to set the rules and thats the problem

[JackThompson]

  

22 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Pretty sure the OP asked about a married NON-O but there are several posts about retirement that won't help.

I did my NON-O married extension last yr with a new contract and 2 months of (local) salary paid, copy of the contract and a letter from the employer stating the contract was real.

Just reapplied 3 weeks ago for another extension and they wanted the same thing again plus 12 months of bank statements showing the monthly salary deposits.

OP, if you don't have 1, get a job. Makes it easier. 

CW Bangkok had no interest in my bank-statement, showing my Thai income (have WP) - made up a huge list of criteria (reported by at least 2 other applicants).  You must use another office - which one?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/21/2020 at 12:12 AM, KarenBravo said:

Do you use Phuket immigration personally?

I was lucky enough not to need to, but they are no different from any other imm. office in that they make up anything they like and we have to jump through the ever changing hoops. Some are worse than others, as it seems Phuket is, but even Chiang Mai was so horrible to use that I gave up and used an agent to save my sanity.

 

[bamboozled]

I'll ask this question again as I still don't know but I'm truly curious: how can one have 12 months of transfers (or even two months) to get a visa since one would need a valid year-long visa in the first place to be here to receive 12 months of transfers? What am I missing in this equation? I guess I will have to transfer 400k now, using the extension to get it seasoned for 2 months. But honestly, I don't have faith that the criteria won't change, such as you need a year of seasoning of the 400k (just like they changed the monthly transfer from 2 months to 12 months all of a sudden) and that they'll stop granting 60 day extensions to visit wife. It now seems impossible to predict anything.

Edited August 22, 2020 by bamboozled

[PST]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was lucky enough not to need to, but they are no different from any other imm. office in that they make up anything they like and we have to jump through the ever changing hoops. Some are worse than others, as it seems Phuket is, but even Chiang Mai was so horrible to use that I gave up and used an agent to save my sanity.

 

Ive never had any issues with Phuket IO, if you have the documentation that is needed, and everything is in order, then they have no reason to refuse you your extension. A list of documents required is available on the PIV website, and it's very accurate.

 

PST

[Peter Denis]

50 minutes ago, bamboozled said:

I'll ask this question again as I still don't know but I'm truly curious: how can one have 12 months of transfers (or even two months) to get a visa since one would need a valid year-long visa in the first place to be here to receive 12 months of transfers? What am I missing in this equation? I guess I will have to transfer 400k now, using the extension to get it seasoned for 2 months. But honestly, I don't have faith that the criteria won't change, such as you need a year of seasoning of the 400k (just like they changed the monthly transfer from 2 months to 12 months all of a sudden) and that they'll stop granting 60 day extensions to visit wife. It now seems impossible to predict anything.

OK, I'll give it a shot.

 

1 - When having entered Thailand VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa, one can apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa (for reason of retirement, or for reason of marriage, or for any other reason as described in the IO regulations).  This needs to be done at least 15 days (some IOs require 23 days) before the permission to stay of that VE or TS/TR Visa expires (but you can apply for a 30-day extension if that period is too short for you to meet the requirements).

The problem many have faced when taking that road, is that when using the funds-in-bank method or the monthly-income transfer method, that you need to provide evidence of the 800K/400K or at least one 65K/40K transfer on your personal thai bank-account (not a joint one) at the moment of application for that 90-day Non Imm O Visa.

And it is not easy to open a personal thai bank-account, surely if you are on a VisaExempt or Tourist Visa entry.  Many have reported that it took them sometimes 20 trials at different bank branches, before finally finding one willing to open a personal thai bank-account for them.  Every bank-branche even from same Bank has their own rules, so denial at a Kasikorn branche on one side of the street does not mean that you will be denied at the Kasikorn branche on the other side of the street.  The staff 'helping' you is also a major factor, because if they are not familiar with opening a bank-account for a foreigner it is easier to tell you 'Cannot be done'.

> So this is an obvious mis-match between what IO requires (funds or transfers to a personal thai bank-account to provide evidence of you meeting the financial requirements of your application) and the actual Thai banking-practices which make it very difficult to open a thai bank-account as a foreigner.

 

2 - When you applied from a Visa Exempt or Tourist Visa entry for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa you only need to provide evidence of meeting the financial requirements at the moment of application (NO seasoning required).  And when applying in the last month of the 90-day permission to stay that 90-day Non Imm O Visa provided you, you would have to show evidence that you maintained the financial requirements.  So that's where the minimum of 2 MONTHS of seasoning/transferring funds comes from. 

That would also be your FIRST application for the 1-year extension of stay, and afterwards for your next applications for the 1-year extension you would need to provide evidence that you maintained the financial requirements for the full 1-year period preceding your application.

And that's where the 12 MONTHS seasoning/transferring funds comes from.

Note: There is one exception > and that is when you apply using the 400K funds-in-bank method for a 1-year extension of your Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage, then only 2 months of having the funds on your personal thai bank-account is required at moment of application (so that effectively means that after successful application for the 1-year marriage extension you are free to use the 400K as you please, but only need to top up again to 400K two months before applying for your next extension).

 

3 - IOs are now also requiring 12 months of monthly income transfers when applying for the 1-year extension from an original 1-year ME Non Imm O marriage Visa.

So it seems that IO wants to impose the SAME extension-rules (12 months) on those that have been staying in Thailand on that ME Non Imm O marriage Visa, as what they require for those on 'regular' Non Imm O marriage extensions.

Due to the timing of this sudden change of policy/practice it looks like a 'crackdown' on those with a ME Non Imm O marriage Visa, because if they already used their 60-day extension of stay they won't be able to apply for the 400K funds-in-bank method anymore as there isn't sufficient time left for seasoning these 400K for two months if they did not already start with it.

So these unfortunates are now with their backs against the wall, and apart from leaving Thailand before Amnesty expiry (26 september), it seems they have only two options left:

a) Engaging a Fixer Agent that would be able to 'fix' the 400K requirement they are unable to meet;

b) Temporarily/administratively relocating to a different province with a more accommodating IO that still applies the 'old' (read: regular) two months seasoning requirement when using the monthly income transfer method.  But as this sudden change of policy/practice was most probably triggered by an internal Immigration HQ instruction, chances are slim of still finding such an IO.

 

[bamboozled]

Thank you, Peter Denis! Yes, in some places this is called a "cluster #uck!" So, in my humble opinion, the rules never really made any sense since it is difficult, next to impossible to open a bank account as a tourist. How about this: you show up to immigration with the cash in hand OR your bank info from your home country? I'm saying this would be make sense. Again, in my humble opinion.

 

As far as moving to another province that is friendlier, as you mention, it seems like a big risk to take with less and less probability of a positive result. A big investment in time and money, too.

 

"Note: There is one exception > and that is when you apply using the 400K funds-in-bank method for a 1-year extension of your Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage, then only 2 months of having the funds on your personal thai bank-account is required at moment of application (so that effectively means that after successful application for the 1-year marriage extension you are free to use the 400K as you please, but only need to top up again to 400K two months before applying for your next extension)."

 

...Are you saying that once getting the visa extension based on marriage this 400k can be used up until 60 days prior to getting a subsequent extension at which point you must again show 400K? I was under the impression the account always had to show at least 400k for the whole 12 months.

 

 

[Peter Denis]

12 minutes ago, bamboozled said:

...

"Note: There is one exception > and that is when you apply using the 400K funds-in-bank method for a 1-year extension of your Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage, then only 2 months of having the funds on your personal thai bank-account is required at moment of application (so that effectively means that after successful application for the 1-year marriage extension you are free to use the 400K as you please, but only need to top up again to 400K two months before applying for your next extension)."

 

...Are you saying that once getting the visa extension based on marriage this 400k can be used up until 60 days prior to getting a subsequent extension at which point you must again show 400K? I was under the impression the account always had to show at least 400k for the whole 12 months.

Yes, that's exactly correct.

Once you get the 1-year permission to stay stamp in your passport based on your 1-year extension of stay for reason of marriage using the 400K funds-in-bank method, you can use those funds as you please.  You only need to top up again to 400K two months before your next application for the 1-year extension of stay (and leave the funds there during the 3-4 weeks under consideration period until you get the approval stamp in your passport).

[Peter Denis]

32 minutes ago, bamboozled said:

...

As far as moving to another province that is friendlier, as you mention, it seems like a big risk to take with less and less probability of a positive result. A big investment in time and money, too.

...

Of course you would not start the administrative relocating to another province without enquiring first at the local IO whether they confirm that you applying for the 1-year extension of stay there would be accepted (or trustworthy reports of recent applications at that IO by applicants in a similar situation as yourself).

And although relocation sounds like a big hassle, it is not particularly difficult to do (you are free to live where ever you want in Thailand).  But it is a matter of finding a place to stay in that province, as you would need to provide a 'residence address' when doing your TM-30 (or TM-27) relocation notification at the local IO.  Once you have that, that new province is your 'home' and you would need to apply at that local IO for any Immigration 'services' like an extension of stay.  So you can then apply for the 1-year extension of stay.

Note: You might be confronted with a 'house visit' during the under consideration period of your 1-year extension of stay application when applying for reason of marriage. 

The purpose of such visit is to check whether you are still married to your thai wife, and that it is not a 'fake' application to stay long-term in Thailand at reduced cost (the marriage extension is way cheaper than the extension for reason of retirement).

And once the 1-year permission to stay has been approved, it would be a simple matter of relocating back to your original province and home.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Peter Denis

[kimamey]

On 8/21/2020 at 10:29 AM, PST said:

Correct, the KR2 should be no older than 180 days, however i got one a month before my extension just to be safe.

I don't understand the idea of an updated KR2. I've asked my wife and ours is from when we were married in 2013 and we've used it before. 

[fondue zoo]

4 minutes ago, kimamey said:

I don't understand the idea of an updated KR2. I've asked my wife and ours is from when we were married in 2013 and we've used it before. 

It seems we are all potential liars and cheats in the eyes of many IO's...

Also, they possibly hate trees too.

[PST]

30 minutes ago, kimamey said:

I don't understand the idea of an updated KR2. I've asked my wife and ours is from when we were married in 2013 and we've used it before. 

Its to prove that the person applying for an extension is still legally married. how else would an IO be able to check?. It's a 2 minute and 20 baht process to get an updated one, why anyone would run the risk of using an old one baffles me, as the IO is well within' his/her right to send you to get an updated one if its not less than 180 days old.

[Peter Denis]

28 minutes ago, kimamey said:

I don't understand the idea of an updated KR2. I've asked my wife and ours is from when we were married in 2013 and we've used it before. 

The idea is that you could use an old Marriage Certificate when the marriage could have broken up.  IO uses three mechanisms for catching the 'cheaters':

- Some IOs require a recent Kor Ror 2 (certificate of marriage registration), as proof that you are not divorced in mean time;

- Some IOs require recent pictures as part of the 1-year marriage extension application (e.g. before the house, in the kitchen, in the bedroom, ...), as proof you are living together as man and wife;

- Some IOs will do an announed/unannounced visit during the under consideration period of your 1-year extension of stay application for reason of marriage, this in order to check that you are indeed living with your thai wife at same address and confirmed by neighbors which are questioned too.

>> The idea that you might be speaking the truth and are actually living with your thai wife at the address on your application, seems to be rather incredulous for them... ????

[moontang]

On 8/20/2020 at 2:08 PM, Bender Rodriguez said:

easier to park 800k for immigration only, never touch it 

 

you might get 0.1 percent of interest on it

An urban myth, even in these dire times, that enables losers to give comfort to losers.