Kremlin critic Navalny will survive 'poison attack' - Bizilj

[webfact]

Kremlin critic Navalny will survive 'poison attack' - Bizilj

 

FILE PHOTO: Police officers guard the surroundings of the Charite Mitte Hospital Complex, where Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny is receiving medical treatment, in Berlin, Germany August 22, 2020. REUTERS/Fabrizio Bensch

 

MOSCOW/FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny, who fell gravely ill on Thursday after what his allies believe was a poisoning, will survive, the founder of the activist group that sent the air ambulance to fly him to Germany, told a newspaper.

 

"Navalny will survive poison attack, but be incapacitated for months as a politician," Jaka Bizilj, founder of the Cinema for Peace Foundation, told mass tabloid Bild.

 

Navalny, a long-time opponent of Russian President Vladimir Putin and campaigner against corruption, was flown on Saturday for treatment in Germany.

Navalny, 44, was in an induced coma when he was evacuated from the Siberian city of Omsk, but there has been no word yet from the Charite hospital in Berlin on his condition.

 

"If he gets through this unharmed, which we all hope, then he'll certainly be out of the political arena for at least one, two months," Bizilj was quoted as saying.

 

He said that Navalny had coped well with the flight, but added this did not change his "worrying overall situation".

 

Navalny's team had been due to host a briefing via YouTube on Sunday evening to discuss "everything we know so far about Alexei's poisoning," but subsequently cancelled it saying they were not ready, press secretary Kira Yarmysh and campaign HQ head Leonid Volkov wrote on Twitter.

 

Navalny was under intense police surveillance in preceding days, a Russian tabloid newspaper cited law enforcement sources as saying.

 

Before he collapsed on a flight during a trip to Siberia Navalny was followed by plainclothes FSB officers and his movements were closely monitored via CCTV, the report in the Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper said.

 

Citing security service sources, the paper described the timeline of his trip before he fell ill down to the number of rooms his team booked in a local hotel and the fact that Navalny chose not to sleep in the room booked under his name.

 

SURVEILLANCE

An apartment rented for him by one of his supporters was discovered by police surveillance, the paper reported, when a sushi takeaway was ordered to the address by one of Navalny's supporters.

 

"The scale of the surveillance does not surprise me at all, we were perfectly aware of it before," Yarmysh wrote on Twitter.

 

"What is surprising, however, is that (security service sources) did not shy away from describing it."

 

In its report, the Moskovsky Komsomolets paper cited security sources as saying that their surveillance of Navalny's movements did not reveal any suspicious contacts that could be related to his illness.

 

Security services believe that if Navalny was poisoned, the incident took place either in the airport or on the plane, the newspaper wrote.

 

However the paper said they are still awaiting results of laboratory tests of samples taken by police from all the places Navalny and his team visited on their trip, including samples of the air.

 

Initial results are expected on Monday, with results from tests for radioactive material due later in the week, the paper said. It did not say whether or not these would be made public.

 

Doctors at the hospital in Omsk where Navalny was treated before his evacuation to Germany have said they do not believe he was poisoned. They diagnosed him with a metabolic disease that may have been caused by low blood sugar.

 

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Friday that it was still unclear what caused Navalny to fall ill. He had previously said that any poisoning would need to be confirmed by laboratory tests and that doctors were doing everything they could to help Navalny.

 

(Writing by Polina Ivanova and Christoph Steitz; Editing by Frances Kerry and Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-08-24

 

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[Paiman]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Navalny will survive poison attack, but be incapacitated for months as a politician," Jaka Bizilj, founder of the Cinema for Peace Foundation,

I guess the goal has partially been achieved.

 

Hope he is better off than Otto Warmbier, the tourist in North Korea who was only allowed to leave as vegetable and soon after passed away 3 years ago.

[Dmitry2222]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Navalny will survive poison attack

Neither Russian nor German hospitals are not confirmed the poisoning. 

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Navalny, a long-time opponent of Russian President Vladimir Putin and campaigner against corruption

It is funny just compare these two persons.

[pegman]

Message received 

[Pedrogaz]

1 hour ago, Dmitry2222 said:

 

It is funny just compare these two persons.

I'm not sure what compare Navalny and Putin means. There is little comparison. Putin is a clear leader and statesman, if Machiavellian; Navalny is a bit of a nutcase who has self-conflicting opinions and holds with no political office; the West has latched onto him as being a spokesperson for the majority of the nation, which he is clearly not. There was recently a referendum about allowing Putin an extra term.....he won handily....if he had been that unpopular he would not have won.

[Proboscis]

1 hour ago, Pedrogaz said:

I'm not sure what compare Navalny and Putin means. There is little comparison. Putin is a clear leader and statesman, if Machiavellian; Navalny is a bit of a nutcase who has self-conflicting opinions and holds with no political office; the West has latched onto him as being a spokesperson for the majority of the nation, which he is clearly not. There was recently a referendum about allowing Putin an extra term.....he won handily....if he had been that unpopular he would not have won.

It is interesting to see that the Russian troll factory is turning out their propaganda in a far more subtle manner than before. But still they don't get it. Navalny is not a politician - he is a journalist and documentary maker. We have many of them too in Western countries who watch out for corruption and malfeasance. When their words do not agree with the government, we do not describe it is being a "nutcase."

 

The referendum referred to above had no foreign or outside observers. There are many countries where leaders win because they own or control the media and jail or harass anyone who does not agree with them. Let me ask you a simple question - is there a credible opposition party in Russia that is not suppressed or in the pocket of the ruling party? No? Why? Are the Russian people not capable of having an opposition party?

[Dmitry2222]

2 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

I'm not sure what compare Navalny and Putin means.

Navalny political weight is nothing comparing with the Putin. It's a big mistake to consider him as an opponent.

[Dmitry2222]

35 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

Are the Russian people not capable of having an opposition party?

There are opposition parties, but most of them do not maintain western course. And in the Western mind it is not opposition for some reason.

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, Dmitry2222 said:

There are opposition parties, but most of them do not maintain western course. And in the Western mind it is not opposition for some reason.

Putin is an "Elected" dictator, which you see in many countries where the ruler controls the media, the courts, and everything else. To see this supposed pillar of Socialism pour money into far right political groups all over Europe, his support for Brexit, and a right wing self obsessed balloon like Trump, is the ultimate irony. If the regular poisoning and disappearance of opponents were not the expected foul deeds of a devious power obsessed ex KGB Colonel it might be surprising. 

 

Of course Seamus Putin Milne, Corbyn, and many on the UK ultra far left, find it near impossible to find fault in anything Russia does.

 

[Dmitry2222]

17 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

his support for Brexit

 

17 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

regular poisoning

where are the proofs? only messages in western media

 

19 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

disappearance of opponents

give an example, please. who dissapeared?

[Amdesign]

Here are the political parties represented in Duma (Russian parliament) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Duma Pro-Russian opposition parties are present in political life.

 

Navalny is not an 'opposition', he actually studied in Yale and thus pro-Western political blogger. Navalny is facing few criminal cases for defamation in Russia, including the one from WWII veteran (the hearing should be in few days). 

 

In the past, such 'poisoning' cases were used to escalate sanctions and media attacks against Russia, and give more publicity to outworn 'opposition leaders'. I remember the 2004 Ukrainian Yushenko 'poisoning' case, it was real media hysteria about 'Russia poisoned Ukrainian presidential candidate'... and then finally General Prosecutor of Ukraine said that possibly there was no poisoning, General Military Prosecutor of Ukraine said in 2019 'there are no proofs of poisoning'.

 

So before making any conclusions based on media, study the previous cases and try to find what was the real investigation outcome.

 

PS And don't call me 'Russian troll factory'... This will be flagged to moderator.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Amdesign

[sead]

10 minutes ago, Amdesign said:

Here are the political parties represented in Duma (Russian parliament) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Duma Pro-Russian opposition parties are present in political life.

 

Navalny is not an 'opposition', he actually studied in Yale and thus pro-Western political blogger. Navalny is facing few criminal cases for defamation in Russia, including the one from WWII veteran (the hearing should be in few days). 

 

In the past, such 'poisoning' cases were used to escalate sanctions and media attacks against Russia, and give more publicity to outworn 'opposition leaders'. I remember the 2004 Ukrainian Yushenko 'poisoning' case, it was real media hysteria about 'Russia poisoned Ukrainian presidential candidate'... and then finally General Prosecutor of Ukraine said that possibly there was no poisoning, General Military Prosecutor of Ukraine said in 2019 'there are no proofs of poisoning'.

 

So before making any conclusions based on media, study the previous cases and try to find what was the real investigation outcome.

 

PS And don't call me 'Russian troll factory'... This will be flagged to moderator

Totally agree with you on this

[Amdesign]

The new season of 'Putin the Poisoner' is on! The new TV series from the creators of 'Comrade Trump' and 'Chemical Assad'.

 

In this season, Putin is poisoning a very dangerous critic - pro-Western unemployed blogger Navalny. Despite all risks, the poisoning happens in crowded public place - in the airport and airplane, to maximize the effect and terrify the ordinary people. Definitely, the aim of Putin is to draw maximum Western media attention. But don't worry, no one will die - as usual, no one is poisoned to death. According to the screenplay, the victim should stay alive and speak in Western media about the terrible poisoner.

 

Anyone believes in such shows? To me, this looks like a low quality fiction for imbeciles.

[rcummings]

22 hours ago, Amdesign said:

Here are the political parties represented in Duma (Russian parliament) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Duma Pro-Russian opposition parties are present in political life.

 

Navalny is not an 'opposition', he actually studied in Yale and thus pro-Western political blogger. Navalny is facing few criminal cases for defamation in Russia, including the one from WWII veteran (the hearing should be in few days). 

 

In the past, such 'poisoning' cases were used to escalate sanctions and media attacks against Russia, and give more publicity to outworn 'opposition leaders'. I remember the 2004 Ukrainian Yushenko 'poisoning' case, it was real media hysteria about 'Russia poisoned Ukrainian presidential candidate'... and then finally General Prosecutor of Ukraine said that possibly there was no poisoning, General Military Prosecutor of Ukraine said in 2019 'there are no proofs of poisoning'.

 

So before making any conclusions based on media, study the previous cases and try to find what was the real investigation outcome.

 

PS And don't call me 'Russian troll factory'... This will be flagged to moderator.

Why does studying at Yale and being a pro western blogger disqualify him from being in opposition? Because it's not possible to be pro-western and pro-Russian? You're not biased much, are you?  And as you failed to state, Navalny was running for president until the Russian government retried him on corruption charges and found him guilty. That disqualified him from running for President. And you're the one who talks about dodgy coincidences? But then not surprising since you falsely accused him of not willing to be retested for the presence of Dioxin in his body.

[Amdesign]

20 minutes ago, rcummings said:

Why does studying at Yale and being a pro western blogger disqualify him from being in opposition? Because it's not possible to be pro-western and pro-Russian? You're not biased much, are you?  And as you failed to state, Navalny was running for president until the Russian government retried him on corruption charges and found him guilty. That disqualified him from running for President. And you're the one who talks about dodgy coincidences? But then not surprising since you falsely accused him of not willing to be retested for the presence of Dioxin in his body.

Can a graduate of Moscow University run for UK Prime Minister? ????

 

Navalny was never officially running for presidential campaign, he has never been registered as candidate. But he was running for major of Moscow and lost and accepted his loss. But since 2014, Navalny's support has become really marginal, after Russians saw Maydan scenario in Ukraine.

 

I was following Navalny's blog for a while, well there were some corruption investigations at the beginning. But then it became truth mixed with lie, and it was too oblivious for analytic mindset. Right now, there are numerous criminal cases against him for defamation.

 

I should mention the Government is quite soft to him, he is on probation instead of imprisonment. I don't think any decision maker in Russia would really think of poisoning this guy; this will make him a 'sacred sacrifice' and cause another Western media storm. The guy is not dangerous and has no real support.

 

And with Dioxin, it was Yushenko, Ukrainian president 2005-2010. You are missing the point and show 'deep knowledge' ????

Edited August 25, 2020 by Amdesign

[rcummings]

6 minutes ago, Amdesign said:

Can a graduate of Moscow University run for UK Prime Minister? ????

 

 

The answer to your question is an obvious "yes". Any citizen of the UK can become an MP. And any MP is eligible to be the PM. And it wouldn't be taken as writ that just because this person graduated from Moscow University that she would be anti-UK. 

[Amdesign]

2 hours ago, rcummings said:

The answer to your question is an obvious "yes". Any citizen of the UK can become an MP. And any MP is eligible to be the PM. And it wouldn't be taken as writ that just because this person graduated from Moscow University that she would be anti-UK. 

That's up to You (but I don't really believe it is possible). But Russians don't want US/NATO puppet as president. And now his real supporters will show their faces... but they are not in Russia.

 

'Criminal act against a major Russian politician' - what a nonsense... Not a major politician, and not proved to be a criminal act yet...

https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/country-files/russia/news/article/situation-of-mr-navalny-q-a-from-the-press-briefing-25-aug-20

 

'well-known politician'

https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/mfa-statement-on-reports-of-alexei-navalnys-poisoning

 

'Navalny's major role in Russia's political opposition'

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/newsroom/news/-/2376926

 

And so on... All his investors are speaking ???? In few days, we will see the sanctions - that was the purpose of 'poisoning'. And the real background for sanctions is West's failure to hijack Belarus.

 

It is dangerous to be 'opposition leader' in Russia, funded by the West. Once not useful, the bosses can finish him off any time.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Amdesign

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, Amdesign said:

That's up to You (but I don't really believe it is possible). But Russians don't want US/NATO puppet as president. And now his real supporters will show their faces... but they are not in Russia.

 

'Criminal act against a major Russian politician' - what a nonsense... Not a major politician, and not proved to be a criminal act yet...

https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/country-files/russia/news/article/situation-of-mr-navalny-q-a-from-the-press-briefing-25-aug-20

 

'well-known politician'

https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/mfa-statement-on-reports-of-alexei-navalnys-poisoning

 

'Navalny's major role in Russia's political opposition'

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/newsroom/news/-/2376926

 

And so on... All his investors are speaking ???? In few days, we will see the sanctions - that was the purpose of 'poisoning'. And the real background for sanctions is West's failure to hijack Belarus.

 

It is dangerous to be 'opposition leader' in Russia, funded by the West. Once not useful, the bosses can finish him off any time.

Oh dear, we really are heading into full on loony conspiracy theory here. "And the real background for sanctions is West's failure to hijack Belarus."

So the capabilities of the west are so vast that they have managed to influence a vast number of ordinary citizens of Belarus. This includes housewives, factory workers, farmers, etc etc etc. The "West" must have had an uncountable number of super spies going into the ordinary folks houses and persuading them not to listen to state controlled media.

 

You just have to get used to the idea of ordinary people rising up and protesting against an unpopular leader. It happens often in the world. Russia was once ruled by a Tsar - remember? 

 

I am not particularly pro west, in fact I support the moves that Russia made in Syria in the fight against Islamo-facism. However to see the hand of the "Wicked West" in everything that happens is boneheaded.

[anon7854]

I highly doubt the secret services of other countries could poison Navalny right under the nose of FSB that was keeping a close eye on everything he does. That is bull. West has nothing to win from this and neither Navalny - it really achieves nothing ,he is induced coma , no longer in Russia and can be used as a scarecrow now "look , he ran back to his patrons". 

 

The poisoning is pretty clear the work of the FSB, it seems it's their favourite disposing method ( Litvinenko , Politkovskaya , Kara-Murza etc - guess west poisoned and killed them too ) .  Seems Putin really enjoys it. Russian doctors not detecting anything is typical and hilarious. they were probably busy with "hate west" propaganda or the performance of russian medical system is the fault of the West as well.

 

Anyway , if  the Russian people are ok with a dictator controlling everything with an illusion of democracy , cool for them. A 600 euros average sallary/month is very poor for such country but guess stupidity and poverty go hand in hand considering people think everyone opposing Putin is financed by the west.  guess all opposition is funded by the west and everyone that opposes Putin either gets poisoned or dies ... by the west of course. Your 600 euro / monthly avg sallary is west fault , everything that goes wrong in Russia is because of  the West.

 

Solid basis for hidden dictatorship : stupid people and  no opposition.

Edited August 25, 2020 by anon7854

[Amdesign]

4 hours ago, anon7854 said:

I highly doubt the secret services of other countries could poison Navalny right under the nose of FSB that was keeping a close eye on everything he does. That is bull. West has nothing to win from this and neither Navalny - it really achieves nothing ,he is induced coma , no longer in Russia and can be used as a scarecrow now "look , he ran back to his patrons". 

 

The poisoning is pretty clear the work of the FSB, it seems it's their favourite disposing method ( Litvinenko , Politkovskaya , Kara-Murza etc - guess west poisoned and killed them too ) .  Seems Putin really enjoys it. Russian doctors not detecting anything is typical and hilarious. they were probably busy with "hate west" propaganda or the performance of russian medical system is the fault of the West as well.

 

Actually, foreign financing of Navalny's 'Anti Corruption Foundation' is a fact. The foundation was labeled as 'foreign agent' by Russian Ministry of Justice.

 

Yes, about 'Putin the Poisoner' we see the new season here. Fiction for imbeciles. Of those people You mentioned, no one was any threat to Putin, and very limited number of Russians heard about them. But those 'murders' made a <deleted> storm in Western media. Believe in such 'poisonings', if You want. (FYI, Politkovskaya was shot, not poisoned). Again, looking back at story with Yushenko, Ukrainian president 2005-2010, who was also 'poisoned by the Russians' in Western media, and then in 2019 we hear from General Military Prosecutor of Ukraine that there there was no poisoning.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Amdesign

[Amdesign]

5 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Oh dear, we really are heading into full on loony conspiracy theory here.

There are many possible scenarios with Navalny, and any investigation requires to look at all of them, and ask 'who's benefit?'

a) poisoned by Putin

b) poisoned by foreign intelligence

c) poisoned by his mates from 'opposition'

d) health issues, isn't he diabetic?

e) was he taking drugs, possible overdose?

...

But seems Western media is only looking at option a)... Why I am not surprised?

Same scenario as before: 'poisoning' - Western media storm - sanctions and/or creating negative image of Russia.

In this particular case, both Makron and Merkel call Putin demanding to give up in Belarus, and then in couple of days... ops - Navalny poisoned! Possible connection?

[Nigel Garvie]

6 hours ago, Amdesign said:

There are many possible scenarios with Navalny, and any investigation requires to look at all of them, and ask 'who's benefit?'

a) poisoned by Putin

b) poisoned by foreign intelligence

c) poisoned by his mates from 'opposition'

d) health issues, isn't he diabetic?

e) was he taking drugs, possible overdose?

...

But seems Western media is only looking at option a)... Why I am not surprised?

Same scenario as before: 'poisoning' - Western media storm - sanctions and/or creating negative image of Russia.

In this particular case, both Makron and Merkel call Putin demanding to give up in Belarus, and then in couple of days... ops - Navalny poisoned! Possible connection?

Please put my post in full or explain why you have only picked out one sentence. Kindly address the main point I am making which is that:-

"You just have to get used to the idea of ordinary people rising up and protesting against an unpopular leader. It happens often in the world. Russia was once ruled by a Tsar - remember? " 

Of course the only way you can possibly explain it is western influence. How could a Russian affiliate leader possibly be unpopular?

 

You brought the topic of Belarus into this, now you follow it up with the quite pathetic line "both Makron and Merkel call Putin demanding to give up in Belarus".  Makron and Merkel can't "Demand" anything of Putin in the real world - or were you in on the phone call? They no doubt requested in the strongest terms that Putin did not carry out a military invasion that resulted in the murder of innocent civilians who are protesting against a vile dictator. Maybe you are blinded by your loyalty enough, to actually believe that the state controlled election results were genuine. 

[RobFord]

On 8/24/2020 at 4:43 PM, Dmitry2222 said:

Navalny political weight is nothing comparing with the Putin. It's a big mistake to consider him as an opponent.

I guess that’s why he was worth poisoning. Putin will not tolerate dissent.