Opening up Thailand to tourists a "potential catastrophe", wait six months urges Chula doctor

[GAZZPA]

3 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

IF only they didn't have the French in there. Of all cultures I just don't get theirs. Somehow insular.

I found French people to be proud and patriotic, this can appear as arrogant and rude sometimes, especially in Paris but once you understand that and show a little appreciation that doesn't really apply. Outside of Paris, it's different, they are very friendly, warm people who love life, and love to share their culture. 

[ChipButty]

I think many people here in Phuket could not last another 6 months I have heard of suicides amongst the locals

[Reigntax]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yes, but IMHO, smart people don't voluntarily take actions that needlessly increase their chances of getting sick or dying, like ignoring prudent protections against COVID 19....  There already are enough risks in life you can't influence/control, but there are some you can, and COVID is one of those.

 

Also, at the current rate, the world death toll for COVID is going to hit that 1 million figure you mentioned regarding annual mosquito infection-related deaths, and that will have been in only 9 or so months time.

 

Per Johns Hopkins update from Aug. 28:

 

 

Ok. How many countries have shut down their economies, or even considered taking any action whatsoever because of misquitos that as you correctly say, this year looks like being slightly less than Covid deaths? None

But the misquito related deaths also occured last year and every year before and will occur next year and every one after.

How many people are willing to impose a debt on their children and grand children for the next 20-30 years just so the indiviuals risk of being infected is minimised? Because that is exactly what has happened.

The risk of covid or any other activity in life can only be assessed by that person. Risk and enjoyment often coincide.

I wouldnt jump out of a plane using a parachute. I can imagine it to be a great thrill but to me the risks are too much. Others will consider the risk acceptable based on the reward. I dont judge their decision. It is their life and the outcome has no affect on mine.

 

People at risk need to decide what is acceptable to them knowing the risks involved.

 

Yes. People will die and if i become one of them based on decisions i make then so what? 

Everyone of us is insignificant except to ourself and our immediate families. We can all be replaced very quickly.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Reigntax

[ourmanflint]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Yes, but IMHO, smart people don't voluntarily take actions that needlessly increase their chances of getting sick or dying, like ignoring prudent protections against COVID 19....  There already are enough risks in life you can't influence/control, but there are some you can, and COVID is one of those.

How long can Thailand hideaway though? There will never be a vaccine that is 100% effective, and I do mean *never*

 

Like flu the coronavirus will constantly mutate, making every vaccine less and less effective, this is not something that is going to stop anytime soon, it is with us forever

[steelepulse]

3 hours ago, brucec64 said:

Too early to get a picture of the deaths. Deaths follow the case increase by an average of 18 days.

Doubt it.  There's a lot more testing, so a lot more positives of people that have no symptoms.  Most of the unhealthy people now are either tucked away and safe, or have passed away.  All these positives are people with generally good health.

[steelepulse]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yes, but IMHO, smart people don't voluntarily take actions that needlessly increase their chances of getting sick or dying, like ignoring prudent protections against COVID 19....  There already are enough risks in life you can't influence/control, but there are some you can, and COVID is one of those.

 

Also, at the current rate, the world death toll for COVID is going to hit that 1 million figure you mentioned regarding annual mosquito infection-related deaths, and that will have been in only 9 or so months time.

 

Per Johns Hopkins update from Aug. 28:

 

 

Let's do the math shall we.  1,000,000 deaths, 7.8 billion people.  That is something like 0.00012820512.  Does that seem like a high figure to you?

[3NUMBAS]

Spain breaks pandemic record with over 9,700 new cases

Death toll rises past 29,000, over 950 more people hospitalized in past day

Alyssa McMurtry   | 28.08.2020

 

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/spain-breaks-pandemic-record-with-over-9-700-new-cases/1956626

[dbrenn]

2 hours ago, GAZZPA said:

Are you part of the David Icke fan club? think through what you just said..

Who started thisracy  so called hoax and why?

How and when did all the global political leaders conspire together to plan this global hoax?

How did they convince all the virologists, scientists and doctors to go along with it? 

What did the 40,000 people die of in the UK in just over 3 months (certainly not the flu in those numbers)

 

I am getting tired of all the silly conspiracies, if you have any answers to the above simple questions then please do so, if not keep your nonsense to yourself, you don't convince me or any other free thinking person who can anaylse the facts. 

 

It's only a conspiracy theory if scientific opinion is not divided, but it is divided. For each scientist who thinks that Covid is dangerous, there are others who think that it isn't. Science is not in agreement, so it's not a conspiracy theory because eminent people are on one side or the other.

 

I'm calling it a hoax because the media and politicians are only representing one side of this scientific debate and are amplifying panic when proportionality should instead be exercised. You believe all you read in the news, which portrays just one side of the debate because journalists need a good story, and panic is a good story. You're a bit like a sheep, following the herd. Try to think for yourself.

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by dbrenn

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 hours ago, steelepulse said:

Let's do the math shall we.  1,000,000 deaths, 7.8 billion people.  That is something like 0.00012820512.  Does that seem like a high figure to you?

 

I guess it depends on if you or any of your family members or friends are among the 1 million dead.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 hours ago, ourmanflint said:

How long can Thailand hideaway though? There will never be a vaccine that is 100% effective, and I do mean *never*

 

Like flu the coronavirus will constantly mutate, making every vaccine less and less effective, this is not something that is going to stop anytime soon, it is with us forever

 

Dunno... lots of good questions...

 

The virus candidates they're testing are supposed to provide immunity ... for that portion of recipients for whom the vaccine actually works.... for at least some months...  And I think I've read that the U.S., at least, is using a minimum 50% effectiveness threshold as the basis for proceeding with any particular vaccine, which seems pretty low.

 

I've never said I thought Thailand should simply blanket refuse to allow people to enter the country from abroad. But I have said, repeatedly, that I don't think for right now they should be letting anyone into the country from abroad who hasn't gone thru mandatory quarantine, at least until some sense of the vaccine status becomes known.

 

That doesn't mean you can't have foreign tourists or visitors... It just means you can't have the traditional short term kind who come and go in a week or two... unless they're willing to spend their time in something like the Phuket experiment that the Thais continues to talk about.

 

 

[GAZZPA]

1 hour ago, dbrenn said:

It's only a conspiracy theory if scientific opinion is not divided, but it is divided. For each scientist who thinks that Covid is dangerous, there are others who think that it isn't. Science is not in agreement, so it's not a conspiracy theory because eminent people are on one side or the other.

 

I'm calling it a hoax because the media and politicians are only representing one side of this scientific debate and are amplifying panic when proportionality should instead be exercised. You believe all you read in the news, which portrays just one side of the debate because journalists need a good story, and panic is a good story. You're a bit like a sheep, following the herd. Try to think for yourself.

 

???? Is that the best you can do? Of course it is a conspiracy theory, David Icke makes a living selling this guff... He believes he is the Son of God and the world is run by Lizard people...

 

Yes there are some scientists that may disagree but the vast majority do not and the vats majority are working on a vaccine and coming up with ways to tread the fine line between supressing the spread and stimulating the economies.

 

Hopeless assumption from you saying I read the press and believe everything I read, very lame. I read, yes, the same as you do and i form my own opinions... 800,000 people dead is a fact.. David Icke is not in any way factual. Even if I were to be called a sheep I would rather listen to majority of the scientific community then David Icke. When this all blows over and ends i will try to remember to message you and ask to explain how is it things have returned to normal, no Lizard people have been caught and nobody has been arrested for this incredible global conspiracy that YOU somehow think has been coordinated,,, there must be millions of people in all countries all over the world that are in on this conspiracy,, and you think this is plausible.. ????

[dbrenn]

30 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

???? Is that the best you can do? Of course it is a conspiracy theory, David Icke makes a living selling this guff... He believes he is the Son of God and the world is run by Lizard people...

 

Yes there are some scientists that may disagree but the vast majority do not and the vats majority are working on a vaccine and coming up with ways to tread the fine line between supressing the spread and stimulating the economies.

 

Hopeless assumption from you saying I read the press and believe everything I read, very lame. I read, yes, the same as you do and i form my own opinions... 800,000 people dead is a fact.. David Icke is not in any way factual. Even if I were to be called a sheep I would rather listen to majority of the scientific community then David Icke. When this all blows over and ends i will try to remember to message you and ask to explain how is it things have returned to normal, no Lizard people have been caught and nobody has been arrested for this incredible global conspiracy that YOU somehow think has been coordinated,,, there must be millions of people in all countries all over the world that are in on this conspiracy,, and you think this is plausible.. ????

So do a bit of your own research then. You'll find that scientific opinion is divided, as it often is. Why would that be, if this were just a conspiracy theory? Surely all the scientists would be in unanimous agreement?

 

Laughing and sneering as you are, sensitive when your assumptions and slavish adherence to conventional wisdom are threatened.

 

I've no idea who this David Icke person is either. Think for yourself, even if it makes you feel uncomfortable, rather than behaving like an obedient small  child. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by dbrenn

[GAZZPA]

30 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

So do a bit of your own research then. You'll find that scientific opinion is divided, as it often is. Why would that be, if this were just a conspiracy theory? Surely all the scientists would be in unanimous agreement?

 

Laughing and sneering as you are, sensitive when your assumptions and slavish adherence to conventional wisdom are threatened.

 

I've no idea who this David Icke person is either. Think for yourself, even if it makes you feel uncomfortable, rather than behaving like an obedient small  child. 

I have done my own research, scientific opinion is not divided. Just because some scientists have a different view doesn't mean the majority are divided does it. I cannot imagine there are many instances in the scientific community where opinions don't vary. So the sensible thing to do is read and research for yourself and draw your own conclusions. In my opinion I will follow what the majority of the scientific community say and look at how many institutions are spending millions on finding a vaccine. The conspiracy theories and occasional scientific view that differs does not matter. If you want to follow the odd scientist and conspiracy theorists then you feel free. Just because someone agrees with the majority view does not mean they are stupid sheep,, in fact I would say only people with limited intellect would draw a conclusion that it is all some elaborately constructed conspiracy.

[steelepulse]

6 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I guess it depends on if you or any of your family members or friends are among the 1 million dead.

And what are the odds of this occurence?

[englishoak]

WE ALL GONNA DIE ........................... Keep everything shut down, last one dead turn out the light... 

[dbrenn]

8 hours ago, GAZZPA said:

Just because some scientists have a different view doesn't mean the majority are divided does it

That's the very definition of a divided opinion. There are many instances in scientific history where the dissenting voices were right.

 

Many experts agree that Covid is dangerous, but many disagree. Journalists, needing a story, only report on one side. Politicians, afraid to admit they're wrong, perpetuate their disproportionate response. 

 

Learn how to think and question the mainstream narrative and hysteria induced codswallop, rather than closing your mind. You might surprise yourself. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by dbrenn

[MarkyM3]

23 hours ago, SteveK said:

It's been how long now, 6 months and people still can't travel because of a flu virus? Hands up anyone who knows anyone who had it. What a shambles, I can see this dragging on for years, but then I guess that is why China manufactured the virus in the first place, because it contains an artificial genotype.

My uncle died from it in the UK in April. He was mid-70s and had a pacemaker but otherwise in good health prior to this. However, the fact remains that the number of deaths from C19 is not commensurate with all the other fallout the lockdowns have caused and we need to get on with it. UK is currently running at about 20-25 deaths a day, with cases concentrated in certain areas. Most if not all had pre-existing conditions. 

 

I've already cancelled one visit to gf in Thailand (thankfully did have February there before the fallout really started), have abandoned any other plans of getting back this year and am now worried about even getting in by next March. The fallout in economic loss, people not getting cancer treatments, mental health issues, messed-up relationships - I could go on - far outweighs C19 fears imo.

 

Plus....anyone in Thailand who is paranoid about C19 should really be a whole lot more worried about the 26k road deaths every year! 

Edited August 30, 2020 by MarkyM3

[GAZZPA]

11 hours ago, dbrenn said:

That's the very definition of a divided opinion. There are many instances in scientific history where the dissenting voices were right.

 

Many experts agree that Covid is dangerous, but many disagree. Journalists, needing a story, only report on one side. Politicians, afraid to admit they're wrong, perpetuate their disproportionate response. 

 

Learn how to think and question the mainstream narrative and hysteria induced codswallop, rather than closing your mind. You might surprise yourself. 

Goodness, you seem to have a problem reading and understanding. I have access to all the information you do, what makes you think I don't read it?

 

I disagree completely with the conspiracies and the occasional doctor who holds a different opinion, I have read many, many articles. Just because I don't agree with your opinion you think that I am a close minded sheep giving this no personal thought..

 

I think you need to learn to have some respect for people who disagree with you and not assume they are all ignorant of the facts, you are NOT the smartest guy in the world with superior intellect. Lastly the vast majority of doctors do think this virus is serious and dangerous and the spread needs to be controlled in addition to finding a vaccine. Some doctors disagreeing does not mean the overall medical society is divided, indeed many of the top institutions all over the world are working day and night to develop a vaccine,, so their action contradicts what you say and indicates there is a very clear goal, therefore by definition they are united in their cause. Anyway, I am not discussing this with you. You are entitled to your opinion and I am not getting dragged any further into your disrespectful posts... 

[3NUMBAS]

Coronavirus: Cases on Tui flight from Zante to Cardiff

All passengers who were on a flight to Wales from a Greek island have been told to self-isolate after some on board tested positive for coronavirus.

Health officials say seven people from three different parties on Tui flight 6215 from Zante to Cardiff on Tuesday have tested positive for Covid-19.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53966897

[3NUMBAS]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1329088/coronavirus-vaccine-latest-covid-cure-uk-oxford-vaccine-group

 

Coronavirus vaccine in UK in SIX WEEKS: Best scenario now mid-October as testing ramped up

A VACCINE for coronavirus could be ready in just six weeks in a "best-case scenario".

By David Maddox, political editor

PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Aug 30, 2020 | UPDATED: 15:17, Sun, Aug 30, 2020

[GAZZPA]

1 hour ago, 3NUMBAS said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1329088/coronavirus-vaccine-latest-covid-cure-uk-oxford-vaccine-group

 

Coronavirus vaccine in UK in SIX WEEKS: Best scenario now mid-October as testing ramped up

A VACCINE for coronavirus could be ready in just six weeks in a "best-case scenario".

By David Maddox, political editor

PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Aug 30, 2020 | UPDATED: 15:17, Sun, Aug 30, 2020

Great news, lets all hope this is the start of the end... 

[DirtyHarry55]

On 8/28/2020 at 10:08 AM, steelepulse said:

I went ahead and posted daily deaths for you.

It's getting less deadly now we know how to treat it.

[DirtyHarry55]

Probably closing the country hasn't effected the Good Professors salary and in fact now the Universities are open again they get paid lots of extra dosh for being on useless committees.
If Universities were closed again they would have to suffer having to survive only on their wages so I can understand his point of view.

Could someone please explain the Economics of closing the Country for another 6 months to the Professor as it seems he has no idea or doesn't care.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by DirtyHarry55

[Flying Saucage]

It's definitely not the second wave in Europe now. The European governments are only careful and alert and want avoid that a second wave ever will come. One should be aware that R0 still is around 1, and not around 3 or 4 as it was 6 months ago. The lockdown at the  beginning of the pandemic was just the "hammer", and what happens now is part of the "dance".

 

Just today I read an article in the German news magazine Focus, explaining what happens right now:

 

6 months ago, Germany could handle 500000 tests per week, and they tested only people at risk. Today they test 1 million people per week, but as the risk is so much lower now and they tst more, they find way asymptomatic cases. Today they get 4 times more positive tests per day than 6 weeks ago. But no official here says there is a reason to panic yet. These asymptomatic cases are mainly young people which are at very low risk to develop more serious symptoms . Next point is that the doctors and hospitals today know much better how to treat people. Remdesvir is now used more often. The hospitals are empty. Currently 9000 ICU beds with ventilator are available in Germany alone! 

 

I never agreed to others who said that Covid is just a flu. This was definitely not the case in March/April, and it still is not the case in Brazil, for example. But in Europe, it is quite like that now.

 

So, currently there is no second wave. Only the authorities want to take any risk. No need to panic! And, No need to panic THAILAND !!!

[DirtyHarry55]

Mean while 17,000 people have died from Pneumonia this year 5,900 since May

1700 have died from Tuberculosis yes keep the border closed to stop TB spreading to the rest of the World and wear a mask coz it spreads like COVID19.

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by DirtyHarry55

[pookondee]

On 8/28/2020 at 6:29 PM, NB1986 said:

Actually the government thought that tourism is neverending income of money, they became even more strict on foreigners, many rules they changed, the numbers were starting to drop even before Covid-19 they didnt do anything to fined solution they were counting on hordes and masses of Chinese and Indians to saving their tourism sector. 

Now Chinese are making large pool parties in Wuhan spitting into the face of rest of the world. 

The prices on Real estate, hotel businesses significantly dropped i expect before 2030 that it will not be Thailand anymore but Chiland, and all money will go back to mother China only peanuts like taxes will stay to the government. 

And another thing to note..

 

If you remember, for the past 3+ years before Covid, nearly ALL countries

(and most definately all of S.E.A) started to tighten up visa laws on tourists and long stayers. Even Vietnam banned back to back tourist visas. 

 

So in effect there was a push, to really just get folks to GO HOME.

 

And I believe the diplomatic pressure was being put on many countries, from the likes of U.S, ENG, AUS..

To get western citizens (taxpayers) back home and plug the currency leak, for whatever reasons.

 

And of course they constantly blamed

"people smuggling" and

"threats to national security"

altough there never seemed to be any real evidence of such.

 

And now fast forward to our current Covid era...

The objective nearly completely done.

Mostly all citizens back home and locked down..

 

Again, for "whatever reasons"

Or maybe to distract us all from something, or get us in preparation for what comes next.

[Jumbo1968]

I assume some one from the government read the Thai Visa posts, maybe they were testing the water to see the reaction ?

[GAZZPA]

58 minutes ago, Flying Saucage said:

It's definitely not the second wave in Europe now. The European governments are only careful and alert and want avoid that a second wave ever will come. One should be aware that R0 still is around 1, and not around 3 or 4 as it was 6 months ago. The lockdown at the  beginning of the pandemic was just the "hammer", and what happens now is part of the "dance".

 

Just today I read an article in the German news magazine Focus, explaining what happens right now:

 

6 months ago, Germany could handle 500000 tests per week, and they tested only people at risk. Today they test 1 million people per week, but as the risk is so much lower now and they tst more, they find way asymptomatic cases. Today they get 4 times more positive tests per day than 6 weeks ago. But no official here says there is a reason to panic yet. These asymptomatic cases are mainly young people which are at very low risk to develop more serious symptoms . Next point is that the doctors and hospitals today know much better how to treat people. Remdesvir is now used more often. The hospitals are empty. Currently 9000 ICU beds with ventilator are available in Germany alone! 

 

I never agreed to others who said that Covid is just a flu. This was definitely not the case in March/April, and it still is not the case in Brazil, for example. But in Europe, it is quite like that now.

 

So, currently there is no second wave. Only the authorities want to take any risk. No need to panic! And, No need to panic THAILAND !!!

Sorry but there is a second wave in France and Spain right now,, check Worldometer. I agree no need to panic. The hospitals are getting better at treating symptoms plus the social distancing s protecting the most vulnerable, hence the death rates are low. However if Europe lapse on social distancing the deaths rates could rise very quickly.

 

But have you read the news that Oxford University look to be finished on the vaccine in 6 weeks, so returning life back to normal next year... Dont know how long to roll it out to other nations but it's a great start.

[GAZZPA]

33 minutes ago, pookondee said:

And another thing to note..

 

If you remember, for the past 3+ years before Covid, nearly ALL countries

(and most definately all of S.E.A) started to tighten up visa laws on tourists and long stayers. Even Vietnam banned back to back tourist visas. 

 

So in effect there was a push, to really just get folks to GO HOME.

 

And I believe the diplomatic pressure was being put on many countries, from the likes of U.S, ENG, AUS..

To get western citizens (taxpayers) back home and plug the currency leak, for whatever reasons.

 

And of course they constantly blamed

"people smuggling" and

"threats to national security"

altough there never seemed to be any real evidence of such.

 

And now fast forward to our current Covid era...

The objective nearly completely done.

Mostly all citizens back home and locked down..

 

Again, for "whatever reasons"

Or maybe to distract us all from something, or get us in preparation for what comes next.

God I am so tired of the conspiracy nonsense,,, so who is creating this conspiracy and how is it being coordinated across all countries? What is the end game? Are all the doctors, scientists, hospital workers all over the world in on this conspiracy? Are they all keeping it a secret?

 

This conspiracy is on a par with the end of the world is coming and the whole world will collapse in 2000 when the entire worlds computer systems will shut down,,, surprise surprise nothing happened.. Same will happen here, the vaccine will be launched soon and by first quarter 2021 we will be returning back to normal, that's my thoughts and all the silliness around all these conspiracies will be forgotten like all the conspiracies that went before.

[Flying Saucage]

6 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

Sorry but there is a second wave in France and Spain right now,, check Worldometer. I agree no need to panic. The hospitals are getting better at treating symptoms plus the social distancing s protecting the most vulnerable, hence the death rates are low. However if Europe lapse on social distancing the deaths rates could rise very quickly.

 

But have you read the news that Oxford University look to be finished on the vaccine in 6 weeks, so returning life back to normal next year... Dont know how long to roll it out to other nations but it's a great start.

Agree to all your points. If we should call it a second wave or not now is a question how to define this. But it's way less dramatic than 6 months ago.

 

The news about the vaccine are very good indeed. So there is hope. I wonder, however, how the reaction of the Thai government will be when the first vaccinated Westerners ask for entering the country.