Secured Visa Credit Card - Fraud Protection

[ricklev]

Do the secured Visa cards offered by Bangkok Bank, for example, offer the same protections against fraud (or not receiving a purchased product or service) as cards from Western countries?   Is a Visa credit card the same everywhere in that regard?  

[Matzzon]

I guess you will do perfect in reading the terms and conditions for your card. You will find them on Bangkok Bang website.

 

I am not posting this to make an arrogant comment. It´s just that everyone should take the time to read the terms and conditions for everything they use or agree to. At the same time you will know everything about your card.

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Matzzon

[ricklev]

8 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I guess you will do perfect in reading the terms and conditions for your card. You will find them on Bangkok Bang website.

 

I am not posting this to make an arrogant comment. It´s just that everyone should take the time to read the terms and conditions for everything they use or agree to. At the same time you will know everything about your card.

 

If only it were that simple....

[Matzzon]

1 minute ago, ricklev said:

If only it were that simple....

It is! The simple thing is that if it is not standing in the terms and conditions, it´s not included.

[NCC1701A]

unlike in the USA every time I sign a Bangkok Bank Visa card sales receipt here in Thailand it says in big print in English no less:

 

****NO REFUND****

****ALL SALES FINAL****

 

Since this is printed on every receipt everywhere I go for the past five years I have to assume this is Visa's policy not the stores. 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by NCC1701A

[Pib]

8 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

unlike in the USA every time I sign a Bangkok Bank Visa card sales receipt here in Thailand it says in big print in English no less:

 

****NO REFUND****

****ALL SALES FINAL****

 

Since this is printed on every receipt everywhere I go for the past five years I have to assume this is Visa's policy not the stores. 

 

Nope...that the merchant's policy.  I use my US credit cards here in Thailand almost on a daily basis....the receipts I get say same-same....that is, No Refund.  I just looked at two I did today using my US credit card as I still had them in my pocket....one at a PTT station to fill up the Toyota and one at a restaurant.   And sales receipts from Lotus say same thing. 

 

But those statements do not really mean no refunds.  Most Thai stores like Big C, Lotus, and similar usually have a two week refund/replacement policy.   

Edited September 5, 2020 by Pib

[Pib]

OP,

  While the Visa/Mastercard/etc., card networks provide similar basic protection the consumer protection laws in each country vary and these laws partially determine what protections are provided to credit/debit cards.  The card-issuing bank will determine many of the protection/benefits you have for your card. 

[worgeordie]

I thought Bangkok Bank had stopped issuing VISA cards,and only do Mastercard

and that Chinese one,

regards worgeordie

[ricklev]

Just now, worgeordie said:

I thought Bangkok Bank had stopped issuing VISA cards,and only do Mastercard

and that Chinese one,

regards worgeordie

MasterCard and Union Payfor the debit cards but Visa for the credit cards. 

 

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

I thought Bangkok Bank had stopped issuing VISA cards,and only do Mastercard

and that Chinese one,

regards worgeordie

They did for "debit" cards, but for credit cards they offer Visa, Mastercard, UnionPay and American Express.

[Kelsall]

Yes.  Last year Bangkok Bank called me about suspicious charges on my Visa credit card (secured by fixed account).  I confirmed that they were not mine and they emailed me some paperwork to fill out and email back.  They removed the charges, cancelled the card, and sent me a new card free of charge.  I am not sure, but I think they mailed the new card to my local branch where I picked it up.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Kelsall

[Max69xl]

On 9/5/2020 at 11:29 AM, ricklev said:

If only it were that simple....

I don't think it has to do with what bank you have. It's Visas terms and conditions that are important. 

[Max69xl]

On 9/5/2020 at 7:57 PM, Pib said:

OP,

  While the Visa/Mastercard/etc., card networks provide similar basic protection the consumer protection laws in each country vary and these laws partially determine what protections are provided to credit/debit cards.  The card-issuing bank will determine many of the protection/benefits you have for your card. 

The protection should imo be a part of the credit card company. The bank normally pays for the benefits here in Thailand. That's how they get new customers and credit card holders. In western countries Visa and MC might come up with benefits that has nothing to do with the bank. The biggest security problem in Thailand are debit cards and the possibility to buy stuff in stores without punching in the pin code. Why come up with a 6 digit PIN code if you must use it when withdrawing money from an ATM, but not when using the card in a store? I once asked customer service at my Bangkok Bank branch, but the girl just shrugged and looked like "that's normal in Thailand". I think she didn't understand my question. 

[Pib]

30 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The biggest security problem in Thailand are debit cards and the possibility to buy stuff in stores without punching in the pin code. Why come up with a 6 digit PIN code if you must use it when withdrawing money from an ATM, but not when using the card in a store? I once asked customer service at my Bangkok Bank branch, but the girl just shrugged and looked like "that's normal in Thailand". I think she didn't understand my question. 

Unless a debit/card is hard coded to only allow purchase "only" via PIN entry, it's up to the merchant if they process the transaction as a PIN entry and/or Signature.   While you debit/card may be setup to "prefer" PIN entry for a purchase with Signature as secondary choice, then it's up to the merchant in how they have their POS machine is setup to process transactions.

 

When a person's card is inserted into a POS machine, during the first few milliseconds the POS machine and card are coming to agreement on how to process the transaction as PIN entry, Signature, or both. 

 

If the card says I prefer PIN entry entry but the POS machine says I prefer Signature, then the merchant's  POS machine will win that conversation as the card-issuing bank wants to make a fee from processing the transaction more than it wants to have PIN entry used....and the merchant is giving up some charge back protection but many merchants don't like using PIN entry because the customer may not know/may have forgot the PIN and the merchant would prefer to make the sale because they know the chances of charge back are very, very low.   

 

So, both the card-issuing bank and the merchant still place "making the sale" and "earning a transaction fee" over improved fraudulent transaction protection. 

 

[Thomas J]

On 9/5/2020 at 11:07 AM, ricklev said:

Do the secured Visa cards offered by Bangkok Bank, for example, offer the same protections against fraud (or not receiving a purchased product or service) as cards from Western countries?   Is a Visa credit card the same everywhere in that regard? 

Rickley,

 

Yes (former banker)  The only difference between a secured and unsecured card is that the bank on a secured card has money in a savings account that secures your repayment.  

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

On 9/5/2020 at 11:07 AM, ricklev said:

Do the secured Visa cards offered by Bangkok Bank, for example, offer the same protections against fraud (or not receiving a purchased product or service) as cards from Western countries?   Is a Visa credit card the same everywhere in that regard? 

Rickley,

 

Yes (former banker)  The only difference between a secured and unsecured card is that the bank on a secured card has money in a savings account that secures your repayment.

In so far as the protection provided it is not the same as in Western countries. The protection is different in different countries, the Visa organisation may like it to be the same but local law and competition overrides, and many cards carry the protection provided in the issuing country. 

Try a charge back with a US issued card, usually no problem.

Try a charge back with a Thai issued card, usually no chance.

Edited September 7, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[samtab]

On 9/5/2020 at 8:02 PM, ricklev said:

MasterCard and Union Payfor the debit cards but Visa for the credit cards. 

 

 

no more visa debit card even if we order it ? in the past they were just making it difficult but it was still possible to get it !

 

 

 

[samtab]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Try a charge back with a Thai issued card, usually no chance.

 

Some Thai I know who get over million baht monthly income can cancel any charge with a simple phone call just like in US.

But it seems not possible for the rest of us.

 

[chuang]

On 9/5/2020 at 12:29 PM, ricklev said:

If only it were that simple....

It's must be in Thai or Greek.

[ricklev]

This was on the Visa Thailand website.  The PDF is an interesting read, if you are interested.  https://www.visa.co.th/en_TH/support/small-business/dispute-resolution.html

chargeback-management-guidelines-for-visa-merchants.pdf

[elgenon]

A long time agao

On 9/4/2020 at 9:32 PM, NCC1701A said:

unlike in the USA every time I sign a Bangkok Bank Visa card sales receipt here in Thailand it says in big print in English no less:

 

****NO REFUND****

****ALL SALES FINAL****

 

Since this is printed on every receipt everywhere I go for the past five years I have to assume this is Visa's policy not the stores. 

 

 

 

A long time ago I asked my Thai GF who works for BoT what the Thai merchants' policy is regarding returns. Most you can expect is return for store credit but not refunds. We're not in Kansas anymore.

[Pib]

13 hours ago, elgenon said:

A long time agao

A long time ago I asked my Thai GF who works for BoT what the Thai merchants' policy is regarding returns. Most you can expect is return for store credit but not refunds. We're not in Kansas anymore.

 

Over the dozen years I've been in Thailand this time around and having to do a few returns to Thai stores like Big C, Lotus, major hardware store, etc., where I paid with a US credit card,  they will either provide a replacement, give you a "cash refund" if it's a lower priced item, or initiate a refund to your card.  I've experienced all three possibilities.  Never has a store credit been offerred.

 

Now when they initiate a refund to your debit/credit card they have all said it will take up to 45 days to post to my account but I found it happened within about a week.

 

 

[kralledr]

I had one secured card ages ago from scb, when i was tourist, i got some empty package from amazon (worth 40k) i called scb, and it took around 30 days, but i got my money back.

[elgenon]

On 9/9/2020 at 6:33 AM, Pib said:

 

Over the dozen years I've been in Thailand this time around and having to do a few returns to Thai stores like Big C, Lotus, major hardware store, etc., where I paid with a US credit card,  they will either provide a replacement, give you a "cash refund" if it's a lower priced item, or initiate a refund to your card.  I've experienced all three possibilities.  Never has a store credit been offerred.

 

Now when they initiate a refund to your debit/credit card they have all said it will take up to 45 days to post to my account but I found it happened within about a week.

 

 

Thanks for the informative and concise post