Social Bonds: Thais Love Only Themselves

[jumnien]

I can well afford to live anywhere in the world. I am not here because Thailand is the most beautiful country in the world. I am here because Thailand is blessed with one asset you don't tend to find anywhere else in the world - Thai people. Kindness and generosity of spirit are easily found on a daily basis. This is my experience. I don't suggest that everyone in the world move to Thailand.

[sting0001]

Social bonds :Thais love only themselves: Prawase

Social critic Prawase Wasi yesterday urged Thais to care for others and refrain from abusing power.

He said Thai society was structured vertically and lacked horizontal relationships so equality and a sense of sharing were absent, while the pressure on the lower classes would make them take revenge on society.

Vertical relationships allow those with power to dominate and cheat others and create a system of cronies where rumour is rife, he said.

"Although Thais are deeply religious, they only love themselves and not their neighbours," Prawase said.

Source: The Nation - 28 April 2007

Maybe he's never been to the West ?

LaoPo

Looks to me you come from the States.

In Europe, France, Italy ect.., people tend to care more for each other.

It still amazes me that in Thailand most people won't help when you get in an accident.

Thais are very loving and caring people when it comes to their own families, but don't care about the neighbours!

Sad but true!

No Sir, I'm not from the States; I consider myself a European or World citizen, being from Europe.

But I disagree completely with your sentence, above, that people in Europe, France, Italy etc. care more for each other (than people in the Far East).

You even wrote an answer on my topic here, where you also disagreed...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=117331&hl=

But, caring and caring (for each other) are two things and maybe Mr. Prawase is right about 'caring' for Thai neighbours as non-existing; I don't know but I suppose it's all over the world the same. You care for the ones you KNOW, including your close neighbour but it depends WHERE you live, rural or in a skyscraper in BKK...there's a big difference.

Cheers

LaoPo

My dear, oh my dear, you should at least be not from the same part of europe as I am.

Let say the following, europe is a wholerange of culture, and civilisation (celtic, berbero-spanish, magyar, frankish , anglo-saxons, greeks .....), so what is true in my country (strong social bonds btw individual and btw group of individuals) can be untrue in yours. In that case, do not take offense Laopao if I disagree with you, it would mean we simply do not come from the same country (and btw us I pity youand your fellaws).

On the other hand, maybe we come from the same part of europe, but simply you decided to walk out of the civil society (gangstas in Paris or Berlin, Madrid or Milano are not for exemple 'integrated' in the normal flow of the european society). So here also I should confess I pity you, because you missed an opportunity to know for real the place where you are born.

But sorry to repeat it, Europe is a place where social bound btw individuals and/or btw group of individuals are STRONG. We simply believe no civilisate society can last that long without it (well my country still use some civil laws that are older than 2 000 years, and also reconise the gay marriage).

Anyway it make me wonder if you can speak with real accuracy (or even close to real accuracy) about Thailand and thai people if you are not able to simply know your own country.(unsure of it because I can not see your sig, but I think you are a big poster 4.000+, maybe an mod .... that is scary in my humble opinion that you can give / tell advices to others).

Cheers mate

[Artisan]

.......... I am here because Thailand is blessed with one asset you don't tend to find anywhere else in the world - Thai people. Kindness and generosity of spirit are easily found on a daily basis. This is my experience. .............

On an individual level that's my experience too. Also, kindness and generosity of spirit are, usually, inversely proportional to the individual's wealth, otherwise I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Edited April 29, 2007 by Artisan

[KireB]

.......... I am here because Thailand is blessed with one asset you don't tend to find anywhere else in the world - Thai people. Kindness and generosity of spirit are easily found on a daily basis. This is my experience. .............

My experience too and I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Beautiful words! Where did you buy your prozac?

[Artisan]

.......... I am here because Thailand is blessed with one asset you don't tend to find anywhere else in the world - Thai people. Kindness and generosity of spirit are easily found on a daily basis. This is my experience. .............

My experience too and I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Beautiful words! Where did you buy your prozac?

If you disagree then why don't you post an opinion instead of a smart ass comment? ...or don't you possess opinions?

[jumnien]

There is a path that leads to the end of suffering. Don't be afraid.

[bingobongo]

There is a path that leads to the end of suffering. Don't be afraid.

i see your midlife crisis has not yet broken, i am not afraid of reality unlike yourself

[lost_in_space]

The longer I live here, the harder I find it to generalize about people. I've seen acts of kindness and cruelty here that have defied stereotypes. In fact, just today my wife's family went to hospital to bail out a nephew who basically ripped them off and took off for greener pastures.

On the other hand, I find myself more and more agreeing with Kate Hepburn in "The African Queen," when she said to Humphry's character "Human nature, sir, is what we are put on earth to rise above."

[LaoPo]

Social bonds :Thais love only themselves: Prawase

Social critic Prawase Wasi yesterday urged Thais to care for others and refrain from abusing power.

He said Thai society was structured vertically and lacked horizontal relationships so equality and a sense of sharing were absent, while the pressure on the lower classes would make them take revenge on society.

Vertical relationships allow those with power to dominate and cheat others and create a system of cronies where rumour is rife, he said.

"Although Thais are deeply religious, they only love themselves and not their neighbours," Prawase said.

Source: The Nation - 28 April 2007

Maybe he's never been to the West ?

LaoPo

Looks to me you come from the States.

In Europe, France, Italy ect.., people tend to care more for each other.

It still amazes me that in Thailand most people won't help when you get in an accident.

Thais are very loving and caring people when it comes to their own families, but don't care about the neighbours!

Sad but true!

No Sir, I'm not from the States; I consider myself a European or World citizen, being from Europe.

But I disagree completely with your sentence, above, that people in Europe, France, Italy etc. care more for each other (than people in the Far East).

You even wrote an answer on my topic here, where you also disagreed...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=117331&hl=

But, caring and caring (for each other) are two things and maybe Mr. Prawase is right about 'caring' for Thai neighbours as non-existing; I don't know but I suppose it's all over the world the same. You care for the ones you KNOW, including your close neighbour but it depends WHERE you live, rural or in a skyscraper in BKK...there's a big difference.

Cheers

LaoPo

My dear, oh my dear, you should at least be not from the same part of europe as I am.

Let say the following, europe is a wholerange of culture, and civilisation (celtic, berbero-spanish, magyar, frankish , anglo-saxons, greeks .....), so what is true in my country (strong social bonds btw individual and btw group of individuals) can be untrue in yours. In that case, do not take offense Laopao if I disagree with you, it would mean we simply do not come from the same country (and btw us I pity youand your fellaws).

On the other hand, maybe we come from the same part of europe, but simply you decided to walk out of the civil society (gangstas in Paris or Berlin, Madrid or Milano are not for exemple 'integrated' in the normal flow of the european society). So here also I should confess I pity you, because you missed an opportunity to know for real the place where you are born.

But sorry to repeat it, Europe is a place where social bound btw individuals and/or btw group of individuals are STRONG. We simply believe no civilisate society can last that long without it (well my country still use some civil laws that are older than 2 000 years, and also reconise the gay marriage).

Anyway it make me wonder if you can speak with real accuracy (or even close to real accuracy) about Thailand and thai people if you are not able to simply know your own country.(unsure of it because I can not see your sig, but I think you are a big poster 4.000+, maybe an mod .... that is scary in my humble opinion that you can give / tell advices to others).

Cheers mate

I think you misunderstood me.

I said that "I disagree completely with your sentence, above, that people in Europe, France, Italy etc. care more for each other (than people in the Far East)."

If you think that people in Europe care more (for each other) than people do in the Far East, you're mistaken.

European people are a lot more selfish in 'caring for others, own family etc.' than people in the East.

You might disagree with me but that's why I see and notice every single day within my own -limited- experience of travelling and doing business in the Far East for over 30 years and being married to an Eastern Lady.

Family and friends' values are a lot less in Europe; if you disagree, that's fine with me, but maybe you can explain the thousands of elderly homes all around Europe 'filled' with elderly people who are NEVER or SELDOM visited by their OWN children and grandchildren.

You call that 'caring' for each other ?

LaoPo

[Plus]

Thais have big circles of people they trust (and so care and help) but anyone outside that circle is a stranger and Thais are wary of strangers.

They aslo treat each other with respect for individual space and privacy. It might appear uncaring but it is not, it is just respectful.

One thing you'll never see here is some "free hug for everyone" movement.

[baboon]

I just want to say that during the worst period of my [and my wifes] life, Thai family, friends and neighbours rallied round and helped the best they could. I do not want to go into it again, but I am sure many of you know what I am talking about. Without their kind support, I may well have hanged myself by now.

[Toptrainer]

I have read all your posts and never have I agreed with so many posters, even the posters that disagreed with eachother.

I think one only has to look at the bigger picture of what has happened and is currently happening in Thailand right now to see the wisdom of the authors words.

There are a million examples of Thais being incredibly selfless and giving but look at current business and political situations. I think the author has a great point seems to me that Thais will cut of their noses to spite their faces no matter how bad it maybe for their country men. Thailand is very typical of a Third World Country there is incredible wealth here and enormous potential but as it is held by a very selfish few the country suffers.

I also think the everyday actions of the general populace support the authors point. How many times does a Thai hurry up to get in front of you on the sidewalk,in a store, or else where only to slow down as soon as they pass you? I hate that!

[KireB]

For the first time I have to agree with Toptrainer.

And Laoprao seems to have had bad experiences back in Europe because his view of the old country iseems quite biased!

[LaoPo]

For the first time I have to agree with Toptrainer.

And LaoPo seems to have had bad experiences back in Europe because his view of the old country iseems quite biased!

It's not so much bad experiences, KireB, it's the observation and my own experiences in difference between the two parts of the world; EU and the Far East.

There are bad and good examples in both parts; what I am talking about is 'caring' for each other...'caring' for family-members and VALUES in life in general.

But, I suppose everybody has his/her own experiences, and if there are people who claim that Western family/friend values and 'caring for another' are greater than in the Far East, so be it; everybody is entitled to their own opinion, based on experiences.

I have a different opinion and experiences.

LaoPo

[Alf Witt]

Thais only love themselves, Negroes are unintelligent, Jews are cheap, gays are immoral, short men have short p_____. Stereotypes are wonderful aren't they! Black and white labelling shows the close-mindedness of the thinker.

"Stereotypes are wonderful". That's a bit of a generalisation isn't it? Some stereotypes are less wonderful than others !!

[Alf Witt]

never have I agreed with so many posters, even the posters that disagreed with eachother.

Have you been reading a lot of government statements recently, Toptrainer?

[IMA_FARANG]

Social bonds :Thais love only themselves: Prawase

Social critic Prawase Wasi yesterday urged Thais to care for others and refrain from abusing power.

He said Thai society was structured vertically and lacked horizontal relationships so equality and a sense of sharing were absent, while the pressure on the lower classes would make them take revenge on society.

Vertical relationships allow those with power to dominate and cheat others and create a system of cronies where rumour is rife, he said.

"Although Thais are deeply religious, they only love themselves and not their neighbours," Prawase said.

Source: The Nation - 28 April 2007

With all due respect that is a lot of <deleted>.

Certainly some Thais only think of themselves, or are living only for money or matierial gain.

That applies to people everywhere in the world.

There are also Thais who are concerned about the welfare of others, even those who can't ever be in the position to benefit them. I know Thai women who make it a practice to take food to the temples, and feed the homeless who have no other place to live and nothing to eat. These women do it at a cost to themselves, and for nothing, not even thanks. There are others who take in stray animals, like dogs or cats, and provide a home for those strays.

Thais are no different from people anywhere in the world. Some are good, some are not. It's not nationality or custom, it's just human nature.

[sting0001]

I think you misunderstood me.

I said that "I disagree completely with your sentence, above, that people in Europe, France, Italy etc. care more for each other (than people in the Far East)."

If you think that people in Europe care more (for each other) than people do in the Far East, you're mistaken.

European people are a lot more selfish in 'caring for others, own family etc.' than people in the East.

You might disagree with me but that's why I see and notice every single day within my own -limited- experience of travelling and doing business in the Far East for over 30 years and being married to an Eastern Lady.

Family and friends' values are a lot less in Europe; if you disagree, that's fine with me, but maybe you can explain the thousands of elderly homes all around Europe 'filled' with elderly people who are NEVER or SELDOM visited by their OWN children and grandchildren.

You call that 'caring' for each other ?

LaoPo

To make theconversation more readable,I deleted the former postes, apologise if it offend someone feelings.

Nowaday, elder citizens do have a place to stay, do get money monthly by the governement (from the taxes paid by everyone) .... What about here? Elder are at the best like some kind of 'pimps' wasting their days to wait the money the daughter MUST send them to buy some alcohol bootle and do some gambling, but the cruel and common rule here is more to let the elder alone (same as in europe) but also without any ressources (no social system at all).

So maybe I am leaving in Thailand while my old man is still in Europe and I do not go to visit him weekly, but I do pay taxes in my own country and if I choosed to do so is because it's my duty as responsible citizen (not only as loving son) to contribute to the leaving of those who are not anymore in the working force pool.

Not sure of it make sense, but the other way to explain what I mean can be the folowing : everyone care for his/her own familly, but in europe we also consider as a duty (At least for the people of my generation) to also care for the whole group of citizens. And I do swear I never get the feeling that kind of'care' is existing in South east Asia. People will care for their parents (daughter willingly marrying an old foreigner -call matrimonial prostitution in my country and it's considering as the normal prostitution by the law- just to be able to send money to the parents and by so gaining face for them self and forthe parents too).

Am I over? Am I looking down? Am I cynic (? spelling) or did I simply tell a disturbing truth? Ask yourself , I am sure you know the answer. In my personal case, I do know my gf , who is younger than the son I had from a previous wedding , is with me because I do have a certain financial stability (thought I do not spend easily my money) and not only because my other qualities (in fact I do not have any).

So yes, I do believe there is more care for others in europe than you will never find in the SEA. At the opposite, nothing is free, more care mean also more control (taxes for exemple, people can also tell 'you are a perv, because as a 50 y old man you hang out with young ladies of 20 y old or younger ....). Choose your camp, personnaly I did, I am here because my profession, I choosed to continue to pay taxes in my country rather than here or as the mainstream on the poster to pay nothing because I consider it's the duty of a mature and responsible citizen. Choose, but do not spread BS about where you come from , because anyway you do not belong to Thailand, but to your own country.

[Levent]

While I am probably younger than most members of this forum, I wanted to share my thoughts on this subject as well.

First of all, I think the more Westernised a country is, the more selfish the people in those countries are (in general). The underlying thought is that the more money you have, the less dependent you are on others. From my personal experience and background, having lived in seven different countries, I can say that this is true.

In Holland, or in any other Western country for that matter, people don't pay their taxes because they want to. It's because they have to. What they pay to social security now is for the use of the people now, and not for themselves. Most probably, by the time that the people paying now retire, there won't be anything left because the money has been spent on other things.

The main difference between Holland and Turkey, for example, is that Turks have a much stronger family bond, not because they love their family more than the Dutch do, but because they are more dependant on each other. Having said that, in Turkey, like in Thailand, there are vast differences between rich and poor and again, the richer a family is, the less the family bond between the members. Also, the poorer someone is, the more religious.

From my experience in Thailand, it is exactly the same. Family bonds are very strong and young people show a lot of respect for their elders. However, the richer they are, the less they seem to care for others and the more selfish they are. So while the issue of respect is still more present here than in the West, it is getting less as the people become wealthier.

But as far as manners are concerned, I think many people will agree that generally Thais sometimes behave in a way that is not deemed acceptable by many Westerners. I think of issues such as spitting and picking their nose in public, jumping the queue or not letting people get out of the lift first, etc. Of course, this has all to do with the way one is brought up and for a large part depends on what is learned from the parents and the immediate surroundings.

Please note that above are my personal experiences and yes, I am generalising. Of course there are all kinds of people in a society, just like anywhere else on this planet.

[alexth]

Yeah, like one would need a social critic to figure out that. However, the westerners are going the same way, not that accelerated, but still...

[quiksilva]

I agree with alot of posts here, I have found that Thais love very deeply within their own social circles which tend to be enormous (they treat distant relatives, and their friends, like immediate familly). But outside of that circle they are very distrustful, you only have to see how they drive to appreciate that.