What happens next with UK plan to breach Brexit divorce treaty?

[david555]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/17/boris-johnson-fresh-brexit-concession-tory-rebels-withdrawal-northern-ireland

 

The EU is examining two main options: taking the UK to the European court of Justice or continuing the negotiations and then presenting the British government with the choice of dropping the relevant clauses of the internal market bill in order to secure a trade deal or leaving without an agreement. “It is up to the UK now,” said an official.

 

 

(verry simple..... not forgetting the European 27 parlaiments have each to vote ...or VETO....no diplomatic Barnier anymore ....pure hard  politics  ???? )

Edited September 19, 2020 by david555

[puipuitom]

19 hours ago, Loiner said:

The UK continues to maintain its own laws and regulations within its own borders is pretty much what it boils down to. Sorry EU but suck it up, your plans were thwarted by the one the Remainers call a buffoon.

So: simple: an hard border at the outside of the EU. Means: between North and South Ireland.

A Good Friday agreement, with the British, which hold 20 years.

A "divorce" treaty with the British, which holds 12 months.

Why to negotiate with the British of any treaty anymore, as they hold as long as it pleases THEM ?

 

1 Jan: "third country" to the EU = WTO third country import duties into the EU, Schengen visa, international driver licence and insurances when British want to enter the EU... as long as the EU holds that treaty.

 

As trustworthy as a Brit...

 

[puipuitom]

19 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

If we were fully self sufficient with no need for international trade or multilateral agreements then you may be right, but the world no longer works like that. Your hero's victory will prove to be pyrrhic. 

Some British still think, only the mighty British fleet can force the negotiations as they want. Rule Britannia, Rule the waves... yes... 12 miles around those tiny islands...

[david555]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/17/brexit-news-internal-market-bill-boris-johnson-deal-latest/

 

News

Politics

Europe will block trade deal if Internal Market Bill is not 'rectified', threatens Guy Verhofstadt

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

The EU has chosen, or is at least openly considering, to interpret that treaty as allowing it to effectively control traffic between two parts of the United Kingdom - England, Scotland and Wales, and Northern Ireland.

 

As a result the government of the United Kingdom is taking powers to prevent that.

 

Many, if not most of the countries in the world will absolutely understand that, and find it quite acceptable.

The EU has chosen ? ? So, the EU is NOT allowed to define where their outer borders are ? ?

Only because N + S Irish want NO HARD border, the EU allowed this border to be in the Irish sea. Signed, approved, ratified and hailed as the superb wisdom of Boris the Liar.

 

I hope the Scots + N Irish get their brains back and decide to form together with Eire the Gaelic Confederation of so, per immediately all EU member state territory. Good sea connections and.. no need to travel though England.

[Loiner]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

There is little doubt that the bill will pass as I believe that many in the government secretly want to get shot of NI and are hoping for reunification.

Scotland will go it's own way and England will be left paddling around like a rubber duck, it's what the people voted for, after all they chose to ignore the warnings in 2015.

They could if they really wanted, but won't. A soon as Brexit and world free trade kicks in, the provinces will realise the error of their ways and cling to the Union, if only for the subsidies.

[puipuitom]

33 minutes ago, david555 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/17/boris-johnson-fresh-brexit-concession-tory-rebels-withdrawal-northern-ireland

 

The EU is examining two main options: taking the UK to the European court of Justice or continuing the negotiations and then presenting the British government with the choice of dropping the relevant clauses of the internal market bill in order to secure a trade deal or leaving without an agreement. “It is up to the UK now,” said an official.

 

 

(very simple..... not forgetting the European 27 parlaiments have each to vote ...or VETO....no diplomatic Barnier anymore ....pure hard  politics  ???? )

In these 3 1/2 months all parliaments of all 27 EU member states have to accept. If nothing comes to an acceptance, we have per 1 Jan a Hard Brexit and are the tiny islands west of the EU "third country". 

 

But.. is there really any Brit, who do not start to think what their EU customers are doing and did already ? Your really think there are many EU retail organisations, who accept a gamble on their purchasing prices and.. deliveries in time ? Or reserve their shops shelf spaces for goods they really can rely on ? ?

You think there are any industrial users of British raw materials, spares or components who trust on just-in-time supply and did not contract reliable sources inside the EU ? 

As international supermarket and industrial buyer since 1977 I can tell you: his battle is already fought and NOT won by the British. 2021 is already a lost year for the British exports.

[7by7]

22 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Firstly he promised parliament a vote on any decision to use the treaty-breaking powers created by the bill -- a compromise that snuffed out a rebellion within his own party.

 

Secondly, he has also committed to referring any dispute with the EU to the resolution mechanism set out in the Withdrawal Agreement "in parallel" to using the treaty-busting powers unilaterally

Johnson has proven over the last couple of weeks how much his promises and commitments are worth: nothing.

 

Why would anyone with any sense believe him now?

[Loiner]

3 hours ago, abrahamzvi said:

What about breaking a treaty? How can anyone, any country, trust a government which is not prepared to keep a contract that it negotiated and signed. UK will be even worse off than by just leaving the EU without an agreement on trade.

A trick treaty, 'broken' only by something with the importance of a council by-law, or of a parking ticket. The world doesn't care.

No agreement on trade is better than a bad agreement on trade. The UK will be OK thanks. What international products are you thinking of not dealing with us now?

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why did Boris sign any international contract if he didn't like it? He even praised his wonderful oven-ready deal.

He should have told his voters something like: We don't sign any international deals anymore, we don't need the rest of the world. We are Great Britain.

Yeah, sure.

Oh come on now, haven't you heard the responses to the same UK Remainer claims? He signed it to get us past a Remainer Parliament and get Brexit done. We are now officially out, and overriding some of the EU tricks with our on law. In a few weeks will be out of the transition period too, and the EU will have forced themselves into No Deal.

The rest of the world are knocking on the door. Now, do you want to sell us luxury cars on our terms in our country?

[7by7]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I wonder how long it will take before the majority of the UK population will realize what a stupid idea that Brexit is.

 Based upon the last election in which the majority voted for parties who promised a referendum on the Brexit deal, that's already happened.

 

Unfortunately, the vagaries of our first past the post system meant that, despite only increasing their share of the vote by 1.2% to 43.6%, the Tories increased their seats in the House by 14.8% to give then 56.2% of the seats.

 

That victory was due to Johnson promising to 'get Brexit done' via the Withdrawal Agreement he claimed was his idea, and signed with much self aggrandisement last January. The agreement he now wants the power to ignore at whim.

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

The UK becomes the new North Korea = it doesn't need the rest of the world. 

 

I mean it works so well for them?

If you want to think it like North Korea, you are free to do so. The UK is the country open to the world, while the EU is the protectionist bloc who is now spitting venom at a long standing trade partner and previously a major sponsor.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

The EU has chosen, or is at least openly considering, to interpret that treaty as allowing it to effectively control traffic between two parts of the United Kingdom - England, Scotland and Wales, and Northern Ireland.

 

As a result the government of the United Kingdom is taking powers to prevent that.

 

Many, if not most of the countries in the world will absolutely understand that, and find it quite acceptable.

 

The EU proposed a customs border between Northern Ireland and Great Britain in the Irish Sea. May rejected it saying that no UK Prime Minister could ever agree it.

 

She was wrong. 

 

As soon as the Cummings/Johnson/Rees-Mogg/ERG plotters had removed her, Johnson presented the Irish Sea border idea and where and how the customs controls would work as his!

 

Johnson prorogued Parliament when they wouldn't agree to it. He then called a back me or sack me election on the strength of it. He then signed the agreement with much flourish.

 

If the whole idea is as bad as you and other Brexiteers suggest; why did he do all that?

[7by7]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Rule Britannia was always going to be played at the proms. 

 As was Land of Hope and Glory.

[Loiner]

41 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

So: simple: an hard border at the outside of the EU. Means: between North and South Ireland.

A Good Friday agreement, with the British, which hold 20 years.

A "divorce" treaty with the British, which holds 12 months.

Why to negotiate with the British of any treaty anymore, as they hold as long as it pleases THEM ?

 

1 Jan: "third country" to the EU = WTO third country import duties into the EU, Schengen visa, international driver licence and insurances when British want to enter the EU... as long as the EU holds that treaty.

 

As trustworthy as a Brit...

 

If the EU wants to enforce a hard border between North and South Ireland, that's up to the EU. You should not also cry about the Good Friday Agreement though if you are the one who are frustrating it.

 

Third Country? Well that has caused you a problem now hasn't it? If you want to make it more difficult to move or trade over your borders, well that's also up to you. C'est la vie, but no great shakes.

 

[7by7]

27 minutes ago, Loiner said:

They could if they really wanted, but won't. A soon as Brexit and world free trade kicks in, the provinces will realise the error of their ways and cling to the Union, if only for the subsidies.

 Nationalist in Northern Ireland are not interested in subsidies from Great British; they want to leave the UK and unite with the South into one Republic.

 

Unionists do not want to remain part of the UK due to subsidies, either.

 

It's all a lot more complicated than that and goes back centuries. 

 

 

[Loiner]

Just now, 7by7 said:

 Nationalist in Northern Ireland are not interested in subsidies from Great British; they want to leave the UK and unite with the South into one Republic.

 

Unionists do not want to remain part of the UK due to subsidies, either.

 

It's all a lot more complicated than that and goes back centuries. 

 

 

No, it's all about the money, money, money.

 

Don't you realise that? The Remainers are the same, that's all you lot ever think about isn't it?

[7by7]

24 minutes ago, Loiner said:

He signed it to get us past a Remainer Parliament and get Brexit done

Thwarting a so called Remainer Parliament had nothing to do with it.

 

He signed it after he had won his 80 seat majority in that election!

 

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, Loiner said:

No, it's all about the money, money, money.

 

Don't you realise that?

 If you think the differences between Nationalists and Unionists in Northern Ireland are all about money, money, money then you know nothing.

 

Unless you are choosing to ignore not just several hundred years of history, but also the events of the 1970s. 80s and 90s simply to justify the lies of your hero.

 

8 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The Remainers are the same, that's all you lot ever think about isn't it?

You are the one who keeps banging on and on about money!

 

But yes; I want what's best for my country; in trade, employment etc.. I firmly believe that obtaining that meant remaining in the EU.

 

But it's too late for that now, so we have to make the best of what we have.

 

Something you lying hero is making even more difficult for us than before.

 

 

 

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

47 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

In these 3 1/2 months all parliaments of all 27 EU member states have to accept

You make it sound like its a democracy. How delusional. You have not learnt anything about the EU. The Germans make the decisions and the Dutch, French have a little stutter but toe the line. The rest are insignificant and do as they are told. Hence the referendums that are ignored.

[Loiner]

12 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Thwarting a so called Remainer Parliament had nothing to do with it.

 

He signed it after he had won his 80 seat majority in that election!

 

Still had to get it through parliament.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

I hope the Scots + N Irish get their brains back and decide to form together with Eire the Gaelic Confederation of so, per immediately all EU member state territory. Good sea connections and.. no need to travel though England.

And I hope the Germans take control of Europe like in the 1940s and dictate what is law and how to do things with the countries bending over and taking it up the... I forgot they already are.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

The UK becomes the new North Korea = it doesn't need the rest of the world. 

 

I mean it works so well for them?

I actually thought you had some intellect but that statement has made me fall over laughing with my sides hurting.

 

You should apply for a job with the TAT they will welcome you with open arms for your sensationalism and no sense of reality.

[david555]

57 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

In these 3 1/2 months all parliaments of all 27 EU member states have to accept. If nothing comes to an acceptance, we have per 1 Jan a Hard Brexit and are the tiny islands west of the EU "third country". 

 

But.. is there really any Brit, who do not start to think what their EU customers are doing and did already ? Your really think there are many EU retail organisations, who accept a gamble on their purchasing prices and.. deliveries in time ? Or reserve their shops shelf spaces for goods they really can rely on ? ?

You think there are any industrial users of British raw materials, spares or components who trust on just-in-time supply and did not contract reliable sources inside the EU ? 

As international supermarket and industrial buyer since 1977 I can tell you: his battle is already fought and NOT won by the British. 2021 is already a lost year for the British exports.

Brits might think that way seeing how all goes ....but those brexiteers they are like those big horses in front of the beer delivery wagons in the old days ....you know ....with those side flaps beside their eyes ....????

[baansgr]

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

What cards does he have to play with? There is little in his deck to give us the upper hand. 

Lot easier doing a trade deal with one country rather than 26 that all have totally different economies...so he does have an advantage over the EU

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Still had to get it through parliament.

So according to you, despite his 80 seat majority, Johnson still had to battle a Remainer Parliament?

 

Really?

 

Johnson's European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020 was passed with a majority of 99 in the Commons. 

 

A 99 majority from a Remainer Parliament? 

 

Really?

 

Amendments proposed by the House of Lords were rejected by the Commons and It received Royal Assent on the 23rd January 2020.

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Lot easier doing a trade deal with one country rather than 26 that all have totally different economies...so he does have an advantage over the EU

 Sorry; but are you saying that we only have to negotiate a deal with one country instead of the EU?

 

Which one country is that, then?

[Nigel Garvie]

17 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

And I hope the Germans take control of Europe like in the 1940s and dictate what is law and how to do things with the countries bending over and taking it up the... I forgot they already are.

Germany are the the largest country by population and GDP in Europe, certainly, but the idea that they control everything in the EU is silly. However it fits neatly into the Cummings inspired paranoid delusion that we (The people of UK) are being controlled by others. 

 

It is now 2020, we are in a much changed world, it is over 75 years since WW11. Do you think it is possible for certain Brexiteers on TV to grow up enough to recognise this era is long past, and almost entirely irrelevant to 2020, or are we going to have to go on endlessly listening to assorted versions of "Actung Spitfire"...............Yawn.

[david555]

39 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

And I hope the Germans take control of Europe like in the 1940s and dictate what is law and how to do things with the countries bending over and taking it up the... I forgot they already are.

Seems that it is only disturbing you ....not us Europeans  ....whyyyy...! ????   ????

Edited September 19, 2020 by david555

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Germany are the the largest country by population and GDP in Europe, certainly, but the idea that they control everything in the EU is silly. However it fits neatly into the Cummings inspired paranoid delusion that we (The people of UK) are being controlled by others. 

 

It is now 2020, we are in a much changed world, it is over 75 years since WW11. Do you think it is possible for certain Brexiteers on TV to grow up enough to recognise this era is long past, and almost entirely irrelevant to 2020, or are we going to have to go on endlessly listening to assorted versions of "Actung Spitfire"...............Yawn.

Well if you have an idea how the EEC started and the EU formed you would understand that it came from the second world war.

 

If you haven't that understanding then we have little to discuss. It is fine for posters to talk about the break up of a union that has been in existence for a few hundred years but the fact we tried a trade union that is not what was written on the paper and you are up in arms.

 

You can yawn, I find you ignorant of the actual facts.