Special Tourist Visa: Good news for Scandinavians and Aussies/New Zealanders

[SupermarineS6B]

I've been out at sea for three months now, been through the nose poking, brain scratching, two week quarantine garbage in a hotel room in Taiwan, do you honestly think i'm going to go back to Thailand where i've lived for thirty years and be robbed by these goons ?     Er, nope...... it's either Taipei or Greece......   

[5633572526]

21 hours ago, Lupusthai said:

I can agree to include Finland, Australia and New Zealand.

But why Sweden and Norway?

(included UK and Germany for comparison)

Looks like Sweden should have been wearing masks

[nasa123]

[Logosone]

7 hours ago, maqui said:

So Sweden vanquished Covid by - doing nothing? Other countries prolongated the pandemic by masks and social distancing? How did that work: the virus saw that the Swedes just rolled over presenting their soft underbellies, and it thought: "Boring! Let´s make a trip to the UK, where they will at least try to come up with some half-hearted counter-measures. I'm loving it when they act coyly before they spread their trachea for me."

The whole idea that any country, any politician, any doctor, statistician, or other "expert" can "vanquish" this virus is wishful thinking. If there is one thing we have learned from the last nine months it is that experts are wrong time and time again, that politicians are slow and useless. You can not vanquish a tsunami. You can not defeat a hurricane. Some forces of nature  are inherently immune to efforts by human beings to combat them.

 

This is why Sweden is so important. While almost all countries succumbed to politicians' and experts' knee-jerk fear-filled over-reactions, after fateful inaction, Sweden calmly looked at the evidence. Tegnell saw that hard, mandatory lockdowns and mask wearing were not supported by the evidence. Hence Sweden's businesses remained open, its cafes and restaurants stayed open, its schools remained open, and no mandatory mask requirement was introduced. And STILL Sweden has performed better than most countries.

 

This is important, because it clearly shows that the hard lockdowns, mask requirements and all the other government policies that have destroyed economies and livelihoods are unnecessary, unwarranted and useless, as well dangerous and counter-productive. The fact that Sweden, which refused to put in place all these over the top measures, still gets put on "safe" country lists world-wide is evidence of this.

 

Sweden did not get everything right, as Tegnell conceded the death toll is higher than it had to be because in care homes necessary measures were not done. Nor was testing initially as wide-spread as it should have been. And yet, despite all of this, we now see that the UK has put Sweden on the safe country list, that Thailand would give Swedes the special visas. 

 

So basically, with or without mandatory lockdowns, with or without masks, this virus will disappear. You'll get a lot of self-proclaimed experts crying "Cassandra" to get attention, to give their recipes for success, but ultimately nobody can vanquish this virus. Thankfully human beings do have immunity in most cases, so the death toll is far lower than so-called experts had predicted and politicians hysterically claimed.

 

Sweden, however, clearly shows that hard lockdowns and mandatory masks are not required, as evidenced by Thailand now considering to put Swedes on the special visa list, and the UK putting Sweden on the safe country list.

 

[geriatrickid]

3 hours ago, rumak said:

 

I'm waiting for all the fervent maskers and lockdown guys (and gals) to post " uhhhh,  maybe there

was another way to handle this feardemic "  

HA !   never gonna happen !       loss of face, and all......... farang style

 

Well you could have stricter measures as they do in Sweden.

 

Are you not aware that Sweden  kept in place its  public space  restrictions, its recommendations for at risk groups and the general population to limit social activity, and has maintained its recommendations for telecommuting? The countries with some of the worst surges now (UK and Canada) dropped these recommendations. Hundreds of Swedes did not swarm bars and beaches as was done in the UK and Canada. How many karaoke nights  have you heard about in Stockholm where the idiots went home infected and  spread the disease? Well they did that in Canada. 175+ infected after a few days  all because one bar had a karaoke night.

 

 Masks are necessary in countries where  the population is crowded and  people cannot  effectively socially distance.  Sweden had an advantage of not being a high density population and a population that was compliant with government recommendations.   

Sweden my  require masks on public transit in some larger cities, so don't gloat just yet. 

[Logosone]

50 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Well you could have stricter measures as they do in Sweden.

 

Are you not aware that Sweden  kept in place its  public space  restrictions, its recommendations for at risk groups and the general population to limit social activity, and has maintained its recommendations for telecommuting? The countries with some of the worst surges now (UK and Canada) dropped these recommendations. Hundreds of Swedes did not swarm bars and beaches as was done in the UK and Canada. How many karaoke nights  have you heard about in Stockholm where the idiots went home infected and  spread the disease? Well they did that in Canada. 175+ infected after a few days  all because one bar had a karaoke night.

 

 Masks are necessary in countries where  the population is crowded and  people cannot  effectively socially distance.  Sweden had an advantage of not being a high density population and a population that was compliant with government recommendations.   

Sweden my  require masks on public transit in some larger cities, so don't gloat just yet. 

Please do not post misinformation,  they don't have "stricter" measures in Sweden, the exact opposite is the case. Sweden had NO mandatory lockdown, NO mandatory mask wearing, cafes stayed open, restaurants stayed open, hairdressers stayed open, schools stayed open. In fact Sweden had among the LEAST strict measures in place of any country. Recomendations, even you should have no trouble to understand, are LESS strict measures than mandatory lockdowns. Swedes continued to visit restaurants, bars, cafes, schools, businesses, which were NEVER closed in Sweden as they were in hard mandatory lockdown countries like the UK.

 

As for Sweden having an advantage of not having high density populations that is again false, Sweden very much has urban centres which have a high density population. Berlin has a population density of 3944 people per square kilometre, Stockholm has 4279 per square kilometre, so don't pretend that Sweden doesn't have places with high population density, of course they do.

 

And whether Sweden introduces mandatory mask wearing or not, the point is that until NOW Sweden has not done so, and still performed better than most countries and is still put on the UK's safe list, and being considered for special visas by Thailand. So mask wearing was unnecessary to achieve what Sweden has achieved so far.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Logosone

[Xaos]

[rumak]

37 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Sweden my  require masks on public transit in some larger cities, so don't gloat just yet.

You see,  you try to make some points,   but you can't help but show your biases.   Logosone in many posts,   take a look (and try THINKING without predjudice about it) at the one just above your last one.

Well thought out, well presented,  certainly not gloating.   

All things in life , to be successful,  need to be carried out with common sense, learning what works and what doesn't ,  and basically just making good decisions and being able to adjust when necessary.

 

The almost immediate panic and resulting harsh measures used to control the actions of the whole darn worlds population is just a head shaker.  What and who makes these kind of decisions.  The lack of knowledge on all fronts, the constant changing of views and parade of "experts"  would be laughable if it wasn't so terrible in a big brother way.  Fear, fear, and more fear.    Oh, if only they would present the

same fear campaign by concentrating on showing the world population the effects of obesity and poor health in general on mankind.  Go to the hospitals and show 24/7  terribly unhealthy people suffering from the many diseases caused by their lifestyles.    Ain't no mask gonna prevent what they are eating and doing on a daily basis.   

 

 

[rumak]

Just now, Xaos said:

WOW .  sounds Grand !

 

[Gulfsailor]

14 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Please do not post misinformation,  they don't have "stricter" measures in Sweden, the exact opposite is the case. Sweden had NO mandatory lockdown, NO mandatory mask wearing, cafes stayed open, restaurants stayed open, hairdressers stayed open, schools stayed open. In fact Sweden had among the LEAST strict measures in place of any country. Recomendations, even you should have no trouble to understand, are LESS strict measures than mandatory lockdowns. Swedes continued to visit restaurants, bars, cafes, schools, businesses, which were NEVER closed in Sweden as they were in hard mandatory lockdown countries like Sweden.

 

 

 

 

Yes, most measures in Sweden were voluntary, but research shows that the impact on the economy was similar to nearby countries with mandatory restrictions. The number of infected and deaths in Sweden however far exceed those in the other Scandinavian countries. Here is an interesting article about Sweden;

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2251615-is-swedens-coronavirus-strategy-a-cautionary-tale-or-a-success-story/

[TSF]

12 minutes ago, Xaos said:

The only people who are going to go through all this are the guys who have tiraks or own condos in Thailand, the ones who were living in Thailand and got locked out earlier this year. No regular tourists, the people who used to fly into Phuket and Bangkok and Chiang Mai and stay at resorts for a week or two then go home, will bother with any of this. 

[Logosone]

1 minute ago, Gulfsailor said:

Yes, most measures in Sweden were voluntary, but research shows that the impact on the economy was similar to nearby countries with mandatory restrictions. The number of infected and deaths in Sweden however far exceed those in the other Scandinavian countries. Here is an interesting article about Sweden;

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2251615-is-swedens-coronavirus-strategy-a-cautionary-tale-or-a-success-story/

Unfortunately that article is from 13 August, and is somewhat out of date now. If you look at more recent articles, like this one in the Times, you will read things like:

 

“There are some 15 to 20 other countries with a higher rate of infection than we have right now,” he (Tegnell) said in an interview. “And the economy is in what looks like better shape than many other European countries.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/swedes-try-not-to-gloat-over-a-healthy-economy-and-a-plunge-in-coronavirus-cases-6q5xt55qc

 

If you look at the economic data published for Sweden at the end of last month, the drop in GDP was less than the predicted 8.6%, at 8.3%. By contrast the UK's economy plunged a staggering 20.4% in the second quarter.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/12/uk-gdp-plunged-by-a-record-20point4percent-in-the-second-quarter.html

 

Clearly, those countries with mandatory hard lockdowns fared a lot worse than Sweden economically. Yes, Sweden's economy was also affected, obviously, as it is an export economy, but by the very lockdowns that other countries put in place. If all countries had stayed open, like Sweden, nobody would have had monster drops in GDP, like the UK did.

 

Your other point that the number of infected in Sweden exceeds those in other countries is not true at this time, when Sweden's 7 day rolling averager is actually lower than Denmark's or Norway's. Yes, mistakes were made in Sweden, which led to higher deaths than could have been the case, due to lack of measures in care homes. But in the big scheme of things, if you compare the figures in Sweden world-wide, in fact Sweden is doing better than most countries, which is why the UK put Sweden on the safe list, and why Thailand is now considering giving special visas to Swedes.

 

[TommyL727]

21 hours ago, androokery said:

That is not "the true story". It is one theory that has been popularised, but people who actually represent the groups you mention have debunked it. They put more blame on the fact that they live in crowded conditions and found it very difficult to separate young from old, infected from uninfected. And of course there are more issues. 

Well i listen more to people who right in the middle of it, than political correct explanations. Of course they have "debunked" it, what did you expect.

Edited September 22, 2020 by TommyL727

[maqui]

22 hours ago, TommyL727 said:

I will tell you something that the media do not. There is a very specific reason for that. I have family in Sweden (as all Norwegians do lol), and they have first hand knowledge about this. Sweden has had a massive influx of immigrants the last 20 years or so, and especially since 2015. What happened was, that a lot of these got a job in the health care sector, and mostly in old peoples home care facilities. Now, the majority of these people were never met with any demands of any sort, so they did not bother learning the countrys language. They worked, could only understand their home language, or in best case some very basic English. So when corona hit, they had no idea what was happening, and they infected thousands of those old people, before the Swedish Government understood what was happening. They later issued corona material and advice in their native languages, but it was too late.

 

This is the true story of the massive deaths per capita in Sweden, and you will never hear it in main stream media. And im not trying to place blame, just stating facts. It could easily have been us, if we did not have had a stricter immigrant policy, with language demands.

Filthy, stupid farangs, eh? Uh, foreigners.

Did you volunteer to take on the job of one of them in a nursing home?

[maqui]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

This is important, because it clearly shows that the hard lockdowns, mask requirements and all the other government policies that have destroyed economies and livelihoods are unnecessary, unwarranted and useless, as well dangerous and counter-productive.

So masks, social distancing and lockdowns since mid-March had nothing at all to do with the decrease of the excess death rates in Q2? And the flare-ups in June-Aug had nothing to do with the relaxation of social distancing during the vacation seasons, e.g. in Spain? What strange coincidence that the curves seem to follow the imposition and relaxation of distancing measures with 4 weeks of time lag.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&country=ESP~DEU~GBR~FRA~ITA&region=World

 

[geriatrickid]

52 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Please do not post misinformation,  they don't have "stricter" measures in Sweden, the exact opposite is the case. Sweden had NO mandatory lockdown, NO mandatory mask wearing, cafes stayed open, restaurants stayed open, hairdressers stayed open, schools stayed open. In fact Sweden had among the LEAST strict measures in place of any country. Recomendations, even you should have no trouble to understand, are LESS strict measures than mandatory lockdowns. Swedes continued to visit restaurants, bars, cafes, schools, businesses, which were NEVER closed in Sweden as they were in hard mandatory lockdown countries like the UK.

 

As for Sweden having an advantage of not having high density populations that is again false, Sweden very much has urban centres which have a high density population. Berlin has a population density of 3944 people per square kilometre, Stockholm has 4279 per square kilometre, so don't pretend that Sweden doesn't have places with high population density, of course they do.

 

And whether Sweden introduces mandatory mask wearing or not, the point is that until NOW Sweden has not done so, and still performed better than most countries and is still put on the UK's safe list, and being considered for special visas by Thailand. So mask wearing was unnecessary to achieve what Sweden has achieved so far.

 

Before you accuse me of posting misinformation, you should verify the facts, because it is you that is misinformed.  I have already provided an explanation of why there was a "stricter" regimen. Appreciably,you have no training or education in public health, but this does not excuse your refusal to try and understand what has been explained multiple times. You make the false assumption that strict behavior requires an authoritarian regime, a forced compliance. Maybe that's how it worked in your youth back in the DDR, but that is not how the advanced civil societies function.

 

People can behave in a strict manner on their own. You do not grasp that societies can conform voluntarily.  Sweden is not unique in that regard. The same concept is evident in Japan as well. The government in japan does not force people to be courteous  or to leave washrooms clean: The people do so on their own. In Thailand people do not scream at other people. This is called a societal norm.

 

1. Temporary closure of some services: You have confused a mandatory restriction of activity with a society's adherence to the recommended reduction of social activity. There is no need to have an enforced restriction when the population undertakes it on its own. I provided the example of Cinemas. They closed. There was no forced closure, but they closed on their own because people did not go to the cinema. it does not matter how the cinemas were closed because the end result was the same. I previously stated that consumer spending had decreased 25% in Sweden. It was slightly less than that in Denmark. However, that consumer spending decrease was evidenced on reduced consumer spending in the hospitality sector. Yes, restaurants remained open, but  people did not swarm restaurants, and bars as they have done elsewhere. 

 

2. Despite your claims to the contrary, there were indeed shutdowns of educational  facilities in  Sweden. Universities and  high schools closed from mid march until June.

This is the same pattern as seen elsewhere. Schools had summer holidays. Just as schools have reopened in Sweden they have also reopened in other countries. 

 

3. Below is a summary of measures that were applied in Sweden and that are recognized as important measures that slow the spread of infection. As you appear to have a reading comprehension problem I will repeat again; Sweden has maintained its recommendations that;

1. The general population stay at home where possible.

2. At risk groups stay at home

3. Public spaces are closed.

 

Countries like UK, France  and Canada dropped their recommendations or did not have them.  Unlike Sweden, in the UK , Canada,  Spain etc.  there have been large gatherings in public spaces. Events such as large raves, packed  beaches, parties etc. have been rampant. 

 

You keep pushing your anti mask agenda and comparing environmental characteristics that are not comparable.  Sweden is not a congested country. Its cities do not have the same extensive high density living conditions as one sees in Milan or Paris or Brixton or Toronto. There isn't a problem with social distancing in Sweden as there is in some other countries.  Every public health person has made clear that masks are not necessary when social distancing is assured. Unfortunately, in many countries there isn't enough space or some people are non compliant. 

 

As I stated earlier, the director of public health of Sweden has stated that there is a review underway of whether or not masks will be recommended on public transit in the larger cities. 

 

You also do not understand that in much of the world, despite the restriction of activities, restaurants, businesses,  and many retailers never closed.  Hardware stores, general supply stores (e.g. Walmart, 7-11) ,  grocery stores etc.  all remained open and operating. The term lockdown is  an exaggeration since companies deemed essential kept operating. You carry on as if all countries imposed a suspension of all activity and a 24 hour curfew.  Even at the worst point in the restrictions, my parents were going to the supermarket, the bank, and having restaurant meals delivered.  The car dealer continued to service their car, gas stations operated, and their gardener came to do his job. 

 

You are so intent on pushing your biased view that you won't even recognize that Sweden still has its recommendation in place for telecommuting for work. The UK government is pushing everyone to go back to the office and threatening government workers who do not wish to return. A similar situation was occurring in some large Canadian cities.  Strict  does not need be a government edict that says not to do something.  

[Logosone]

1 minute ago, maqui said:

So masks, social distancing and lockdowns since mid-March had nothing at all to do with the decrease of the excess death rates in Q2? And the flare-ups in June-Aug had nothing to do with the relaxation of social distancing during the vacation seasons, e.g. in Spain? What strange coincidence that the curves seem to follow the imposition and relaxation of distancing measures with 4 weeks of time lag.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&country=ESP~DEU~GBR~FRA~ITA&region=World

 

I predicted this at the time when the lockdowns were put in place, right here on TVF, if and when the virus starts to abate the proponents of hard lockdowns will claim the credit for the virus figures going down. That's exactly what is happening. I saw a speech by a politician the other day praising his local government actions for bringing down the virus figures.

 

Masks almost certainly have nothing to do with it. As you saw Sweden's cases went down without any mandatory mask requirement. 

 

Plenty of studies show that most lockdown measures and masks had no effect on reducing case numbers, but I won't go into that, suffice to say that if you are claiming that one particular measure caused a reduction in case numbers you have to prove it was that measure and not any of the other measures used at the same time. Some studies say lockdowns had no effect, masks had no effect, others say the opposite. But there is no proof either way.

 

And any such theory always has the problem of Sweden. Sweden brought the case numbers down, brought deaths down, without hard lockdowns, without masks. This is why Sweden is so important. They are now put on the UK's safe list, and Thailand is offering Swedes special visas, because the case numbers are going down, deaths are going down. But no mandatory masks, no mandatory lockdowns.

 

 

 

 

[Gulfsailor]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

Unfortunately that article is from 13 August, and is somewhat out of date now. If you look at more recent articles, like this one in the Times, you will read things like:

 

“There are some 15 to 20 other countries with a higher rate of infection than we have right now,” he (Tegnell) said in an interview. “And the economy is in what looks like better shape than many other European countries.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/swedes-try-not-to-gloat-over-a-healthy-economy-and-a-plunge-in-coronavirus-cases-6q5xt55qc

 

If you look at the economic data published for Sweden at the end of last month, the drop in GDP was less than the predicted 8.6%, at 8.3%. By contrast the UK's economy plunged a staggering 20.4% in the second quarter.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/12/uk-gdp-plunged-by-a-record-20point4percent-in-the-second-quarter.html

 

Clearly, those countries with mandatory hard lockdowns fared a lot worse than Sweden economically. Yes, Sweden's economy was also affected, obviously, as it is an export economy, but by the very lockdowns that other countries put in place. If all countries had stayed open, like Sweden, nobody would have had monster drops in GDP, like the UK did.

 

Your other point that the number of infected in Sweden exceeds those in other countries is not true at this time, when Sweden's 7 day rolling averager is actually lower than Denmark's or Norway's. Yes, mistakes were made in Sweden, which led to higher deaths than could have been the case, due to lack of measures in care homes. But in the big scheme of things, if you compare the figures in Sweden world-wide, in fact Sweden is doing better than most countries, which is why the UK put Sweden on the safe list, and why Thailand is now considering giving special visas to Swedes.

 

You are cherry picking the countries you are comparing Sweden with. I’m sure I can find dozens of countries that did much better in all aspects even with full lockdowns. 

To keep it fair, we have to compare Sweden with it's neighbours. Sweden performed very poorly both economically and from a health point. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8

 

As for Sweden making Thailand’s ‘safe list’, I wouldn’t be surprised iScandinavia was meant in general, but Sweden will be excluded. 

[farang51]

1 hour ago, TSF said:

No regular tourists, the people who used to fly into Phuket and Bangkok and Chiang Mai and stay at resorts for a week or two then go home, will bother with any of this. 

It is not meant for the regular tourists. They do not want the regular tourists in Thailand at the moment and in the foreseable future. They are trying to allow tourists that stay a long time, this visa is for tourists that stay at least 30 days and they can stay up to 270 days.

[Xaos]

Fun fact. Its more freedom in Belarus under Łukaszenko then in Australia now, especially victoria. 

 

U can protest go shopping not wear mask freely move around etc. 

 

 

[geriatrickid]

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

Masks almost certainly have nothing to do with it. As you saw Sweden's cases went down without any mandatory mask requirement.

 

You are the one trying to make the  link. No one else has claimed that. 

Sweden's cases declined for the same reason they went down in Spain, Italy, France, the UK, Canada etc. It's called the summer holiday. Schools closed for the holiday,  People went on lengthy summer vacations. The weather was good so people spent time out of doors. All this occurred while the previous restrictions had been eased or lifted around much of the world. There haven't been significant restrictions in much of the EU and North America since May/June and infections decreased.

 

This all started to change about 3 weeks ago. Schools have reopened, and summer vacation is over, we are seeing a surge in infections everywhere. Sweden has also seen an increase in its infections. It was expected. Europe, the UK and Canada are now described as starting their second wave.  Sweden will not be spared.

 

The Thai visa rules cannot change if  the target countries will be starting wave 2.

 

 

 

[farang51]

26 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

3. Below is a summary of measures that were applied in Sweden and that are recognized as important measures that slow the spread of infection. As you appear to have a reading comprehension problem I will repeat again; Sweden has maintained its recommendations that;

1. The general population stay at home where possible.

2. At risk groups stay at home

3. Public spaces are closed.

4. (and this is an important one) As of 29 March, the Swedish Government decided to ban all public gatherings and events with more than 50 people.

 

This is still in effect in Sweden, and probably the main reason why Sweden has fewer infections now than Denmark which over the summer allowed more people in public gatherings (Denmark is back to 50 people now).

 

Sweden's Public Health Agency on Covid-19:

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/communicable-disease-control/covid-19/

[Logosone]

58 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Before you accuse me of posting misinformation, you should verify the facts, because it is you that is misinformed.  I have already provided an explanation of why there was a "stricter" regimen. Appreciably,you have no training or education in public health, but this does not excuse your refusal to try and understand what has been explained multiple times. You make the false assumption that strict behavior requires an authoritarian regime, a forced compliance. Maybe that's how it worked in your youth back in the DDR, but that is not how the advanced civil societies function.

 

People can behave in a strict manner on their own. You do not grasp that societies can conform voluntarily.  Sweden is not unique in that regard. The same concept is evident in Japan as well. The government in japan does not force people to be courteous  or to leave washrooms clean: The people do so on their own. In Thailand people do not scream at other people. This is called a societal norm.

 

1. Temporary closure of some services: You have confused a mandatory restriction of activity with a society's adherence to the recommended reduction of social activity. There is no need to have an enforced restriction when the population undertakes it on its own. I provided the example of Cinemas. They closed. There was no forced closure, but they closed on their own because people did not go to the cinema. it does not matter how the cinemas were closed because the end result was the same. I previously stated that consumer spending had decreased 25% in Sweden. It was slightly less than that in Denmark. However, that consumer spending decrease was evidenced on reduced consumer spending in the hospitality sector. Yes, restaurants remained open, but  people did not swarm restaurants, and bars as they have done elsewhere. 

 

2. Despite your claims to the contrary, there were indeed shutdowns of educational  facilities in  Sweden. Universities and  high schools closed from mid march until June.

This is the same pattern as seen elsewhere. Schools had summer holidays. Just as schools have reopened in Sweden they have also reopened in other countries. 

 

3. Below is a summary of measures that were applied in Sweden and that are recognized as important measures that slow the spread of infection. As you appear to have a reading comprehension problem I will repeat again; Sweden has maintained its recommendations that;

1. The general population stay at home where possible.

2. At risk groups stay at home

3. Public spaces are closed.

 

Countries like UK, France  and Canada dropped their recommendations or did not have them.  Unlike Sweden, in the UK , Canada,  Spain etc.  there have been large gatherings in public spaces. Events such as large raves, packed  beaches, parties etc. have been rampant. 

 

You keep pushing your anti mask agenda and comparing environmental characteristics that are not comparable.  Sweden is not a congested country. Its cities do not have the same extensive high density living conditions as one sees in Milan or Paris or Brixton or Toronto. There isn't a problem with social distancing in Sweden as there is in some other countries.  Every public health person has made clear that masks are not necessary when social distancing is assured. Unfortunately, in many countries there isn't enough space or some people are non compliant. 

 

As I stated earlier, the director of public health of Sweden has stated that there is a review underway of whether or not masks will be recommended on public transit in the larger cities. 

 

You also do not understand that in much of the world, despite the restriction of activities, restaurants, businesses,  and many retailers never closed.  Hardware stores, general supply stores (e.g. Walmart, 7-11) ,  grocery stores etc.  all remained open and operating. The term lockdown is  an exaggeration since companies deemed essential kept operating. You carry on as if all countries imposed a suspension of all activity and a 24 hour curfew.  Even at the worst point in the restrictions, my parents were going to the supermarket, the bank, and having restaurant meals delivered.  The car dealer continued to service their car, gas stations operated, and their gardener came to do his job. 

 

You are so intent on pushing your biased view that you won't even recognize that Sweden still has its recommendation in place for telecommuting for work. The UK government is pushing everyone to go back to the office and threatening government workers who do not wish to return. A similar situation was occurring in some large Canadian cities.  Strict  does not need be a government edict that says not to do something.  

No, you haven't provided information why there was a "stricter" approach in Sweden. Simply because you can't, since there wasn't a "stricter regimen". There was of course a much less strict approach in Sweden. What you are doing is simply to try and misrepresent the recommendations in Sweden, which were never mandatory, as a "stricter regimen".

 

Clearly you have some basic comprehension problems in distinguishing mandatory rules from recommendations which are not mandatory, and you are now trying to portray the latter as a "strict" regimen because you are one of these people who are terrified and you want to sell a "strict regimen" as necessary. Which Sweden, which did not have a strict regimen, clearly proves is not necessary.

 

Do spare me your usual personal insults of "no education" "your youth in the DDR" blah blab blah. I'm not from the DDR, but it turns out the rules in the UK today are a lot more draconian than anything that was ever put in place in the former East Germany, just to fill this obvious educational gap for you. But the fact that you have to resort to play the man and not the ball, merely shows that you are without any credible argument, as always.

 

Your social norms nonsense about Japan flies in the face of reality. Japan's bars and restaurants stayed open long after Europe had closed. If Japanese people's adherence to recommendations was as perfect as you think it was, clearly Hiroshi Nishiura would not have appealed to Tokyo’s metropolitan government for stronger action. Two days later, the city’s governor, Yuriko Koike, called on people to refrain from going to karaoke rooms, concert venues, bars and nightclubs. Because that is exactly what the "social norms" champions were doing in Japan, going to bars, retaurants and public gatherings.

 

"On March 21, Japan began a three-day weekend to celebrate the spring equinox. The sun was shining, the cherry blossoms were blooming, and Tokyo’s residents poured into parks for picnics and packed the city’s bars and restaurants. With much of the world in lockdown mode, it was a surreal scene. It wasn’t long before Japan began to pay a price. More infection clusters began to emerge — at a bar in Sendai in northeastern Japan packed with 300 students, at a nightclub in Tokyo’s Shibuya district, at restaurants and bars elsewhere.

 

“We apologize for this inconvenient request,” Nishiura said at a news conference, explaining that 30 percent of new infections were coming from nightspots. “Many infected people are not fully sharing details.” But the cluster-based approach also became overwhelmed as the virus spread through Tokyo and the number of untraceable infections jumped.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/japan-coronavirus-bars-nightclubs-clusters/2020/04/27/190e2f12-84d1-11ea-81a3-9690c9881111_story.html

 

The ludicrously low case figures in Japan, every child with an ounce of sense in its head, can see, are merely a result of the extremely low testing effort Japan was making. Like with Thailand, China, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Taiwan the case figures of Japan are not worth the paper they're written on. Japanese "social norms" did not result in perfect adherence to reccomendations in Japan, and did not prevent the spread of the virus. Low testing results in low case figures, surprise surprise.

 

Schools in Sweden stayed open throughtout, yes I am well aware that some higher education places had to close, but the vast majority of the school system stayed open, unlike in the hard lockdown countries. And yet Sweden is still doing great.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Logosone

[chainarong]

It was stated in OZ Monday, international flights to NZ will possibly start next June, all Int borders in or out are closed till then , just sayin.

[North]

On 9/21/2020 at 6:21 AM, Logosone said:

Only 1.2 per cent of Sweden's 120,000 tests last week came back positive, data from their national health agency shows, according to The Guardian, that's why.

 

Their 14-day accumulative total of new cases is 22.2 for every 100,000 inhabitants, compared to 279 in Spain, 158.5 in France, 118 in the Czech Republic, 77 in Belgium and 59 in the UK.

 

All those countries imposed lockdowns in the grips of the pandemic in March but Sweden opted for a lighter approach which now appears to be paying off. 

 

It is even outperforming its Scandinavian neighbours, Norway and Denmark, suggesting the Swedish approach may have helped them in the long term. 

 

Amazing how the countries with the strictest lockdowns and mandatory masks have the highest case numbers, whereas Sweden, with no masks and no mandatory lockdown, does not.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8736063/Sweden-records-lowest-number-covid-cases-March-108-did-not-impose-lockdown.html

 

You forgot to mention the very high death-toll in Sweden, almost 6000 so far, so all-in-all their scandinavian neighbours have done far better !

[androokery]

19 hours ago, TommyL727 said:

I dont know about Sweden now, but Norway does not have a travel ban. Only an advisory. Travel wherever you want, but you get a 14 days quarantine when you back. And travel insurances is void for corona related incidents, so you need to buy a separate insurance for that. 

Sweden's Ministry for Foreign Affairs also has an advisory against travel outside EU. I just called it a ban, since that's almost the same in Sweden. You can travel, but all travel insurances are void and there are no companies in country that will sell you separate insurance. There are no mandatory quarantines on return, but if you leave the country against the advice of the Ministry for Foreign Affairs, your employer has grounds to terminate your employment. 

[androokery]

16 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

The STV, is better than STD, but Idoubt that the millions the TAT is hoping for

will happen.  Maybe some lucky Swedes and Norwegans and some Northern Europeans

will get out of Winter to enjoy Thailand.  People who have loved ones and property

will take the quarantine to spend the Winter there, but  not the hordes that TAT is

hoping for.  Trying to make quarantine fun will be a challange. The first few days are

easy with travellers getting over jet lag, then the boredom will set in.

Geezer

Hmm, how would I feel if, four days into quarantine, the Thai government declared that quarantine was no longer needed for new arrivals but those already in quarantine need to finish their stays...? ????

[androokery]

16 minutes ago, North said:

 

You forgot to mention the very high death-toll in Sweden, almost 6000 so far, so all-in-all their scandinavian neighbours have done far better !

It's not a game, it's not a competition, it's not the World Cup of Covid19 statistics. Whatever happened before is not very important right now. What is important is if a) the targeted visitors can afford to come and b) the targeted visitors can be assumed to pose only a moderate or low risk of bringing Covid19 into Thailand. 

If a country like Sweden, with 10 million inhabitants, would have had 8 million infected and 1 million dead those would be HORRIBLE numbers. But you could safely assume that the ones remaining in all likelihood are immune to the virus and therefore safe. At least for a while. 

[newnative]

    Still brain dead.  No actual tourist will do a 14-day quarantine.  Maybe have that tattooed on your arm to remind you as it is not sinking in at all.  Long-stayers, however, might do the quarantine.  Let any and all of them in that want to come--from anywhere.  Give them a warm welcome and a 2 year free visa.   And, for heaven sake, give the Immigration honcho a ding-a-ling and tell him not to kick anyone out who is here and wants to stay--that can be tattooed on his arm.  

[worldfun]

On 9/21/2020 at 5:09 PM, Captor said:

Maybe Thailand can learn something from Sweden!

they already learning. about 50% or less wearing masks in public these days incl. 7-11 etc. so a bit more than moto helmets still ????

public transport in bkk?