Trump to tell U.N. it 'must hold China accountable for their actions' on virus

[rkidlad]

1 minute ago, candide said:

As I said I don't deny China messed up at the beginning. As for this message, note (1) that the Chinese worded it quite cautiously: "preliminary investigation"..."no clear evidence" (evidence is not clear) (2) no country makes decisions based on a tweet, in particular as (3) the same day (that's why I showed it a my previous post), the WHO was making an official statement that there was H2H transmission and that hospital worldwide should get ready to face a spread.

 

The reason I introduce Trump is the OP. Trump tries to put all the blame on China and the WHO in the hope that people may forget about his mishandling of the crisis.

I don't care about Trump. My point is exclusive to the origin of the virus and the cover up that followed. That's why you quoted me. 

 

China knew a lot and didn't share. They were too busy allowing residents of Wuhan to travel outside of Wuhan to the rest of the world but not outside Hubei to the rest of China.

 

The CCP maintain their authority by having the economy look strong, having people in jobs, and making sure people are too scared to revolt. Admitting their weaknesses isn't negotiable to them. You may have noticed how they don't admit fault or say sorry. Their actions and decisions always have to appear to be right. Question that authority and go to jail or get disappeared. 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, rkidlad said:

I don't care about Trump. My point is exclusive to the origin of the virus and the cover up that followed. That's why you quoted me. 

 

China knew a lot and didn't share. They were too busy allowing residents of Wuhan to travel outside of Wuhan to the rest of the world but not outside Hubei to the rest of China.

 

The CCP maintain their authority by having the economy look strong, having people in jobs, and making sure people are too scared to revolt. Admitting their weaknesses isn't negotiable to them. You may have noticed how they don't admit fault or say sorry. Their actions and decisions always have to appear to be right. Question that authority and go to jail or get disappeared. 

Move along. It is end September and most countries have adopted a plan to fight the corona virus early and their deaths and infections are under control. Trump's USA still don't have any plan and he still keep harping the same blame narrative like you to deflect on his colossal failure to fight the virus.  

[Selatan]

4 hours ago, rkidlad said:

"All the published genetic sequences of SARS-CoV-2 isolated from human cases are very similar, suggesting that the start of the outbreak resulted from a single point introduction in the human population around the time that the virus was first reported in humans in Wuhan, China. The analyses of the published genetic sequences further suggest that the spillover from an animal source
to humans happened during the last quarter of 2019"

 

The only people arguing it's origin are the CCP and 'journalists' working for the Global Times or Xinhua, etc. It's well established where it came from. If it came from somewhere else, we'd have known. That's why it started in Wuhan. Because that's where it comes from. 

Did you even read those news items that I gave? Those were not news reports from Global Times or Xinhua.

I gave you many news reports from real news agencies, unlike yours which was just an opinion piece from an anti-China website.

[plentyofnuttin]

3 hours ago, rkidlad said:

I don't care about Trump. My point is exclusive to the origin of the virus and the cover up that followed. That's why you quoted me. 

 

China knew a lot and didn't share. They were too busy allowing residents of Wuhan to travel outside of Wuhan to the rest of the world but not outside Hubei to the rest of China.

 

The CCP maintain their authority by having the economy look strong, having people in jobs, and making sure people are too scared to revolt. Admitting their weaknesses isn't negotiable to them. You may have noticed how they don't admit fault or say sorry. Their actions and decisions always have to appear to be right. Question that authority and go to jail or get disappeared. 

This isn't a zero sum game. It's possible for both Xi and Trump to have behaved badly. But we knew that in January China was already taking drastic steps to curtail the spread of the coronavirus. That should have been warning enough. Trump failed to follow suit.

[billd766]

On 9/24/2020 at 12:25 PM, grumpy 4680 said:

        Trump is not the best US President, but he's right to condemn China and WHO, China's lies and cover up amounts to negligent manslaughter in any other language, of hundreds of thousand's of lives world wide, 

        The Chinese are only good at copying and stealing technology, they should not allowed to fool around with such terrible germ warfare activities, its not the first time, probably not the last, in their quest to be the master race. 

 

So we should only allow the USA. UK, Russia and the West to fool around with such terrible germ warfare activities. If you want to go back a few decades you could probably add Germany to the the list.

 

You could perhaps add Turkey and Syria to the current list.

[Selatan]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Move along. It is end September and most countries have adopted a plan to fight the corona virus early and their deaths and infections are under control. Trump's USA still don't have any plan and he still keep harping the same blame narrative like you to deflect on his colossal failure to fight the virus.  

After the revelation that Trump had played down the dangers of the virus, I just couldn't understand why is he still playing the blame game.

[plentyofnuttin]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

So we should only allow the USA. UK, Russia and the West to fool around with such terrible germ warfare activities. If you want to go back a few decades you could probably add Germany to the the list.

 

You could perhaps add Turkey and Syria to the current list.

You're accepting the premise that the virus was the product of germ-warfare activities. A huge majority of virologists disagree.

[rkidlad]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Move along. It is end September and most countries have adopted a plan to fight the corona virus early and their deaths and infections are under control. Trump's USA still don't have any plan and he still keep harping the same blame narrative like you to deflect on his colossal failure to fight the virus.  

Move along and ignore that China tired to cover this whole thing up? No thanks, Eric. We’re not all CCP apologists. 

[rkidlad]

1 hour ago, Selatan said:

Did you even read those news items that I gave? Those were not news reports from Global Times or Xinhua.

I gave you many news reports from real news agencies, unlike yours which was just an opinion piece from an anti-China website.

The one I sent you is quotes from the CCP and the WHO. Like I said, you’re free to question any quotes by the CCP or WHO you don’t like. How about the one where they said there were no clear signs of human-to-human transmission when they knew weeks before that there absolutely were? 

Edited September 25, 2020 by rkidlad

[rkidlad]

1 hour ago, plentyofnuttin said:

This isn't a zero sum game. It's possible for both Xi and Trump to have behaved badly. But we knew that in January China was already taking drastic steps to curtail the spread of the coronavirus. That should have been warning enough. Trump failed to follow suit.

Again, my argument isn’t about what Trump did or didn’t do. People seem to conflate being angry with the CCP for covering up the virus with supporting Trump. It’s unfortunate nowadays that many people think that condemning one thing means condoning another. It’s a simple and childish logic. 
 

You do know it’s possible for people to have two separate thoughts in their head at the same time, right? 

[candide]

1 hour ago, Selatan said:

After the revelation that Trump had played down the dangers of the virus, I just couldn't understand why is he still playing the blame game.

It's precisely for this reason that he is playing the blame game.

[billd766]

17 hours ago, plentyofnuttin said:

You're accepting the premise that the virus was the product of germ-warfare activities. A huge majority of virologists disagree.

Actually I was replying to this post by grumpy 4680 who mentioned such terrible germ warfare activities.

 

 

On 9/24/2020 at 12:25 PM, grumpy 4680 said:

        Trump is not the best US President, but he's right to condemn China and WHO, China's lies and cover up amounts to negligent manslaughter in any other language, of hundreds of thousand's of lives world wide, 

        The Chinese are only good at copying and stealing technology, they should not allowed to fool around with such terrible germ warfare activities, its not the first time, probably not the last, in their quest to be the master race. 

[dastakantattaka]

On 9/23/2020 at 4:27 AM, Eric Loh said:

Both Trump's narratives are not facts. Just his cover to defend himself from the failures to protect his own people. He still don't have a plan to protect his own people and that's a fact. 

That doesn't overshadow the fact that China has failed to contain the spread of the virus, from the beginning, and thus has spread it to the whole world.

[opalred]

trump should be charged by the human rights court /for

lying to the people about the killer virus \could have saved 100000 lives if told truth/ and promoted the right fixes /wear masks etc 

promoting snake oil cures /all a hoax/

killing children at boarder you could go on and on of his crimes 

[from the home of CC]

On 9/23/2020 at 11:19 AM, Tug said:

Just Donald trying to distract from the fact that due to his incompetence 200,000 Americans are dead 

that's just the warm up act. Florida has decided to reopen all their bars and entertainment. This governor I believe is vying for the Jim Jones award for the most dead. If I lived there I would move..

[Selatan]

9 hours ago, dastakantattaka said:

That doesn't overshadow the fact that China has failed to contain the spread of the virus, from the beginning, and thus has spread it to the whole world.

What beginning? Spanish sewage samples from March 2019 had traces of the virus. 

[Selatan]

On 9/25/2020 at 9:16 PM, rkidlad said:

The one I sent you is quotes from the CCP and the WHO. Like I said, you’re free to question any quotes by the CCP or WHO you don’t like. How about the one where they said there were no clear signs of human-to-human transmission when they knew weeks before that there absolutely were? 

English is not my first language. But I understand precisely what "preliminary investigations" means. China only confirmed with certainty that human-to-human transmission was happening after its medical workers were getting infected.

Heard of bubonic plague? It's a disease that you can get infected from infected rodents. But bubonic plague normally is not human to human transmissible. But if someone's lungs are infected with bubonic plague, it can turn into a form that can transmit from humans to humans, called pneumonic plague. Until that happens, human to human transmission is unlikely or difficult.

The same thing with bird flu. There are sporadic outbreaks of bird flu around the world. Farmers can contract it from diseased birds. But most of the time, they don't pass the infection to others.

[rkidlad]

11 minutes ago, Selatan said:

English is not my first language. But I understand precisely what "preliminary investigations" means. China only confirmed with certainty that human-to-human transmission was happening after its medical workers were getting infected.

Heard of bubonic plague? It's a disease that you can get infected from infected rodents. But bubonic plague normally is not human to human transmissible. But if someone's lungs are infected with bubonic plague, it can turn into a form that can transmit from humans to humans, called pneumonic plague. Until that happens, human to human transmission is unlikely or difficult.

The same thing with bird flu. There are sporadic outbreaks of bird flu around the world. Farmers can contract it from diseased birds. But most of the time, they don't pass the infection to others.

So there’s no reason to be 100% open and honest. Be transparent. That way we can save lives. 
 

Do you think a regime that will lock you up or have you disappeared for criticizing them have your best interests at heart? 

[dastakantattaka]

14 hours ago, Selatan said:

What beginning? Spanish sewage samples from March 2019 had traces of the virus. 

Those Spanish sewage samples that China, barely having found out about which, shouted from each roof "Ahhh, yeeahhh, you see everybody, it's originated from Spain! We've known that! From Spain! Ahhhaaa! Not from China!"

 

Why didn't people begin to fall sick in Spain or even in Europe then, in March of 2019? How come they did only in China half a year later?

What will you say about the lady from Hong Kong who confirmed that the virus originated in China?

Edited September 27, 2020 by dastakantattaka

[johnnybangkok]

16 hours ago, rkidlad said:

So there’s no reason to be 100% open and honest. Be transparent. That way we can save lives. 
 

Do you think a regime that will lock you up or have you disappeared for criticizing them have your best interests at heart? 

Although China isn't exactly known for it's human rights and it's well reported that disenting scientists 'disappeared', the WHO timeline for Covid tells you there was still plenty of warning given to countries about the forthcoming pandemic. The WHO declared a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (their highest warning) on 30th January https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/27-04-2020-who-timeline---covid-19, giving countries plenty of time to initiate trusted proticols in preventing the spread. The problem was this was widely ignored for many crucial weeks and even though the US declared a public health emergency on the 31st January,  Trump kept on downplaying, deflecting and blaming everyone else other than himself throughout February. He has continued to do this with a lack of federal co-ordination and the debacle over wearing masks (why is this even a thing?) . But when asked, Trump gives himself an A+ for his handling of the pandemic.

If China is to blame for not divulging things sooner (some say it appeared in early December), then Trump is equally to blame for politicising and downplaying the pandemic to the point where we see 200,000 Americans dead from the disease now. There's no question he has made things worse and his continual blaming of China for all of Americas problems is just seen as further deflection in an ill advised attempt to keep the heat off himself.      

 

[rkidlad]

17 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Although China isn't exactly known for it's human rights and it's well reported that disenting scientists 'disappeared', the WHO timeline for Covid tells you there was still plenty of warning given to countries about the forthcoming pandemic. The WHO declared a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (their highest warning) on 30th January https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/27-04-2020-who-timeline---covid-19, giving countries plenty of time to initiate trusted proticols in preventing the spread. The problem was this was widely ignored for many crucial weeks and even though the US declared a public health emergency on the 31st January,  Trump kept on downplaying, deflecting and blaming everyone else other than himself throughout February. He has continued to do this with a lack of federal co-ordination and the debacle over wearing masks (why is this even a thing?) . But when asked, Trump gives himself an A+ for his handling of the pandemic.

If China is to blame for not divulging things sooner (some say it appeared in early December), then Trump is equally to blame for politicising and downplaying the pandemic to the point where we see 200,000 Americans dead from the disease now. There's no question he has made things worse and his continual blaming of China for all of Americas problems is just seen as further deflection in an ill advised attempt to keep the heat off himself.      

 

Again, for the 10th time, my original post, and every post thereafter, hasn’t been about Trump, USA, or any other country. I don’t care how well some countries did it or didn’t do. 
 

A poster said that China did all they could to stop the virus and stop it spreading. I said that the virus began in Wuhan and China tried to cover it up. 
 

Please read the university of Southampton’s report on what could have happened had China told the truth from day one instead of trying to cover the regime’s ass.

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, rkidlad said:

Again, for the 10th time, my original post, and every post thereafter, hasn’t been about Trump, USA, or any other country. I don’t care how well some countries did it or didn’t do. 
 

A poster said that China did all they could to stop the virus and stop it spreading. I said that the virus began in Wuhan and China tried to cover it up. 
 

Please read the university of Southampton’s report on what could have happened had China told the truth from day one instead of trying to cover the regime’s ass.

The whole thread is about Trump telling the UN to hold China responsible. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to refer back to the original topic when debating responsibility. We all get your stance (it’s not that difficult), I’m just elaborating on it. 

[rkidlad]

19 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

The whole thread is about Trump telling the UN to hold China responsible. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to refer back to the original topic when debating responsibility. We all get your stance (it’s not that difficult), I’m just elaborating on it. 

Yes, but you’re replying to my post. My post is about the culpability of China. Which is also what the thread is about. It’s exactly what all my posts have been about. It gets quite tiring having people tell me how much they hate Trump because they’ve erroneously conflated my condemnation of the CCP with an admiration for Donald.  
 

Imagine a thread about the wonders that are dogs. Now imagine someone saying they prefer cats. That doesn’t mean that person hates dogs. People often struggle with having two separate thoughts in their head at the same time. 

[johnnybangkok]

11 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Yes, but you’re replying to my post. My post is about the culpability of China. Which is also what the thread is about. It’s exactly what all my posts have been about. It gets quite tiring having people tell me how much they hate Trump because they’ve erroneously conflated my condemnation of the CCP with an admiration for Donald.  
 

Imagine a thread about the wonders that are dogs. Now imagine someone saying they prefer cats. That doesn’t mean that person hates dogs. People often struggle with having two separate thoughts in their head at the same time. 

Fair enough but I really don’t think you should take it so personally. Threads flow with the thought and if all we have to do is concern ourself with your individual thoughts then nothing flows. 
Anyway. Yes, China has responsibility but Trumps deflections are too obvious and don’t mitigate his handling of the pandemic. 
See. It’s possible to cover two things at once. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by johnnybangkok

[rkidlad]

16 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Fair enough but I really don’t think you should take it so personally. Threads flow with the thought and if all we have to do is concern ourself with your individual thoughts then nothing flows. 
Anyway. Yes, China has responsibility but Trumps deflections are too obvious and don’t mitigate his handling of the pandemic. 
See. It’s possible to cover two things at once. 

My point was it began in Wuhan and China tried to cover it up. 
 

Simples. 

[plentyofnuttin]

 

1 hour ago, rkidlad said:

My point was it began in Wuhan and China tried to cover it up. 
 

Simples. 

Now if the President of South Korea or Taiwan or the PM of Thailand, were to have given such a speech,  then it would be valid only to focus on Chinese responsibility. But instead it was Donald Trump who has used the blame china tactic to deflect the issue of his awful performance. And it's your tactic to claim that in a thread about Trump blaming China, that the fact that you focus on China alone is somehow irrelevant. It's obvious that you're carrying Trump's water.

[rkidlad]

32 minutes ago, plentyofnuttin said:

 

Now if the President of South Korea or Taiwan or the PM of Thailand, were to have given such a speech,  then it would be valid only to focus on Chinese responsibility. But instead it was Donald Trump who has used the blame china tactic to deflect the issue of his awful performance. And it's your tactic to claim that in a thread about Trump blaming China, that the fact that you focus on China alone is somehow irrelevant. It's obvious that you're carrying Trump's water.

Of course. 
 

Someone posted that we don’t know where the virus began and China did all they could to be transparent and confine it, and by replying it began in China and the CCP tried to cover it up, I’m carrying water for Trump.

 

If Trump said 2+2 is 4, should I disagree and say it’s 5? After all, facts don’t change opinions - opinions change facts, right? 

Let’s not debate on the ideas from words that people actually said - let’s just infer and misrepresent ideas in order to fit our own narrative and unconscious biases. 

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by rkidlad

[Credo]

It's always easy to look for an enemy, but I think in this regard, the virus is the enemy, not China.  Any time you have a new virus there is a lot to learn.  First, is it a virus or is it something else?  Is it water borne?  Maybe it's food borne?  China responded in the way that China responds to pretty much everything.   

I think you would have to try and compare it to how any other country would have handled it and once it was declared a Public Health Emergency by the WHO, it should of set more alarm bells ringing than it did worldwide.   

 

Certainly by the time it hit the US, there had been plenty of time to put measures in place to protect the population.  So, by all means, look at China and what they did, but don't forget the mess created by the US President.   He is merely deflecting.   

 

[RoadWarrior371]

25 minutes ago, Credo said:

It's always easy to look for an enemy, but I think in this regard, the virus is the enemy, not China.  Any time you have a new virus there is a lot to learn.  First, is it a virus or is it something else?  Is it water borne?  Maybe it's food borne?  China responded in the way that China responds to pretty much everything.  

 

 

Sure, China is above board and transparent.  We should suckle their propaganda sacks with all haste.  They would never create a virus in a lab and allow it to escape.  It is obvious that a renegade bat flew 2,000 miles to Wuhan, bit a human, and the bat virus mutated 200 generations during the encounter. ????  That is one magic loogie. 

 

 

 

[Credo]

1 hour ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

 

Sure, China is above board and transparent.  We should suckle their propaganda sacks with all haste.  They would never create a virus in a lab and allow it to escape.  It is obvious that a renegade bat flew 2,000 miles to Wuhan, bit a human, and the bat virus mutated 200 generations during the encounter. ????  That is one magic loogie. 

 

 

 

Nice conspiracy, but it's been debunked.