16 minutes ago, robblok said:

Agreed that they did cove it up. Point was more if they have to take responsibility how about the USA who willingly with false evidence invaded a country and made mess with countless refugees to other countries ect. I mean if i had to look at what was worse then id say the invasion (probably not in monetary value). But covering an accident up or willingly invade a country and damage then I know what is worse.

 

But yes China was wrong covering it up. But not sure if things would have changed much had they not covered it up. I think we would still have been in the same mess. I can't imagine a different response from Trump for instance. I mean even when it was clear how bad it was he still did not want to act.

The university of Southampton did a report on what would have happened had the CCP responded properly.

 

As for American crimes, we criticize them all the time. Two things can be wrong at the same time. 

Some off topic bickering posts have been removed

44 minutes ago, robblok said:

But yes China was wrong covering it up. But not sure if things would have changed much had they not covered it up. I think we would still have been in the same mess. I can't imagine a different response from Trump for instance. I mean even when it was clear how bad it was he still did not want to act.

Okay for the dumbo in the office to start blaming everybody else but some facts are worth looking at, especially in light of the fact that trump dismissed the virus anyway as nothing more than a "type of flu".

 

December 31, 2019 The World Health Organisation was aware that there were cases of a type of "viral pneumonia" in Wuhan province.

January 1, 2020. The WHO requested information on the cluster of atypical pneumonia cases in Wuhan

January 2, 2020. The WHO Representative in China wrote to the National Health Commission, offering WHO support and repeating the request for further information on the cluster of cases.

January 3, 2020. Chinese officials provided information to the WHO on the cluster of cases of viral pneumonia of unknown cause identified in Wuhan.

January 5, 2020. The WHO issued its first disease outbreak news report addressed to the scientific and public health communities as well as global media. 

9 January 2020. Chinese authorities determined that the outbreak was caused by a novel coronavirus and the WHO convened the first of many teleconference calls with global expert networks.

 

The rest of the timeline can be found on:  https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/29-06-2020-covidtimeline and what becomes very evident is the fact that trump decided early on in the piece that this virus was not dangerous, that China was doing all it could to help and working with the US, and that the virus would likely disappear by April.

 

When more about the virus became known there were no more than a handful of people infected in the US and trump issued a statement that it was all under control.

 

It's pretty clear looking at the timeline that so much more could have been done by trump and co to prevent the spread of this virus, however the "stable genius" knew better, and that has resulted in tens of thousands of
deaths of US citizens.
 

55 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Why are you telling me this? 

Not addressed at you but observing on the subject posted concerning The Donald, China and Covid-19.

42 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

The university of Southampton did a report on what would have happened had the CCP responded properly.

 

As for American crimes, we criticize them all the time. Two things can be wrong at the same time. 

True. As to criticizing the Yanks ... we oft times deserve the criticism and friends certainly try to keep us reaching for the ideals rather than wielding brute force or economic pressure to gain our ends.

4 hours ago, Benmart said:

If you are allowed to vote in the USA, cast your ballot. If not...just words from someone without much real effect.

So from this point on you will only comment on things regarding the USA whilst castigating non US people for commenting on ANY thread about the USA. BTW when and who made you the controler of posts on Thai Visa?

Edited September 23, 20205 yr by billd766
Bad spelling

5 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Now just exactly was Trump suppose to do.

He could have handed out free bottles of chilled disinfectant and straws?

Yes Pres. Donald Trump, the hero to so many, was slow to even admit any

truths about the virus, as he claims he did not want to panic, the simple folk

of America.  This anti masker would not even be shown to have a mask on for

many months. What a great example for more than 350 million people.  I keep

hearing from the Trump suppotters of just how great Donald is. My reply is rubbish!

  The swamp still has too many in it. The great wall of Mexico is still getting slowly

built, and paid for by the U S of A, as it should be.  The US is still way to toxic, to

allow many of them to travel internationally. All of this under Trumps watch.

Geezer

16 hours ago, donnacha said:

Luckily, regardless of how anyone here feels about Trump, we are all at least fair-minded enough to agree that this is a good speech, saying things that badly need to be said.

 

i think hes uncharasmatic, but the worlds hope to restore freedom and fairness and protect the world from the ccp   vote trump!!

Translation for educated folks........I will do and say anything to deflect from my absolute FAILURE

17 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Eric Loh

 

Ok I challenge you.  Trump stopped flights from China and was blasted for it while Pelosi was in China town which is on youtube welcoming people to come and visit. 

 

Now just exactly was Trump suppose to do.  The state governors control the actions in each of the states.  Some such as New York mandated that Covid patients be returned to the nursing homes they previously lived it to recuperate despite being Covid positive.  Others such as South Dakota instituted nothing.  No masks, no lock downs, no nothing. 

So just exactly do you say Trump should have done to protect the USA citizens when he does not control the actions of the states? 

 

Trump did not stop flights from China.

Flights continued and hundreds of thousands of people entered the USA between the "restriction" and the  time in April when   airlines suspended their  operations. More importantly, comprehensive screening measures including quarantine/self isolation were not in place. The NYT  did an analysis and arrived at 430,000 passengers on direct flights.  Toss in the  indirect flights and the number is larger.

 

The criticism of US state management of senior and retirement homes is an easy excuse that allows the federal government to escape responsibility.  Yes, the states had a degree of responsibility, but a closer review shows that the  results were not as simple as this;

a) States relied on US government assurances that Covid19 was manageable.

 

b) States were specific in stating that only medically stable patients were to be transferred. All facilities are required to have isolation capabilities and is part of the SOP in respect to other contagious diseases such as the  common gastro and flu outbreaks at the homes. Unstable patients were not transferred.

 

c) The crisis occurred at homes where  staff disappeared or abandoned their work positions. Understaffed, the homes left patients to starve and dehydrate. These were in most cases private business operations. The industry group has used its lobbying and political clout to escape tougher regulations. Staff in the homes are paid minimum wage, so it was to be expected that they would not stick around under work conditions that saw the homes not provide  sufficient PPE. 

 

d) Many of the infections in nursing homes were brought in by visitors and by staff who worked at multiple nursing homes. These homes use part time workers to avoid providing benefits. This requires the workers to work at multiple homes facilitating the spread of  disease.

 

e) In early April, once the public health authorities became aware of the problem, the states did order the nursing homes "incapable of isolating contagious residents to transfer them to other medical facilities and to stop admitting additional residents."

 

 

In respect to South Dakota, it had fared well initially because it is not a high population density state. Unfortunately, it is not doing well now. Your gloating is now going to bite your plum posterior. In the most current trend report ( past week); South Dakota has 2175 cases/100,000 of pop.  Compare that to  states you would call commie left wing states such as Oregon 747 cases /100,000 pop, Washinton 1,104cases/100,000 pop.

Even  New York state is doing better with 1,888 cases/100,000 pop. and it is a high density/high risk state.  

 

held accountable how exactly ?

sending 4 billion dollars to each island that supposedly are drowning ?

3 hours ago, scammed said:

held accountable how exactly ?

sending 4 billion dollars to each island that supposedly are drowning ?

"Congress gave the Pentagon $1 billion to build up the country’s stock of medical equipment, but the money was mostly funneled to defense contractors who made things like jet engine parts, body armor and uniforms, The Washington Post reports".

 

trump and co doing what they normally do without caring about US citizens.

 

It's Trump that needs to be held account for his inaction.

        Trump is not the best US President, but he's right to condemn China and WHO, China's lies and cover up amounts to negligent manslaughter in any other language, of hundreds of thousand's of lives world wide, 

        The Chinese are only good at copying and stealing technology, they should not allowed to fool around with such terrible germ warfare activities, its not the first time, probably not the last, in their quest to be the master race. 

13 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

        Trump is not the best US President, but he's right to condemn China and WHO, China's lies and cover up amounts to negligent manslaughter in any other language, of hundreds of thousand's of lives world wide, 

        The Chinese are only good at copying and stealing technology, they should not allowed to fool around with such terrible germ warfare activities, its not the first time, probably not the last, in their quest to be the master race. 

 

I'll refer you to Trump's own praise of China's handling of the situation, in the early days of the crisis.

 

Also, by various reports, and the President's own admission, he was briefed, and made aware of things. That he failed to take action or inform the public have nothing to do with China. That's up to him. If China is the 'enemy', then it just pulled a fast one and POTUS failed the American people.

 

Your views of China's technological prowess can be labeled wishful thinking, delusional and whatever help you through the night. The 'master race' bit is yet again, irrelevant scaremongering and hyperbole.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Morch said:

Also, by various reports, and the President's own admission, he was briefed, and made aware of things. That he failed to take action or inform the public have nothing to do with China. That's up to him. If China is the 'enemy', then it just pulled a fast one and POTUS failed the American people.

 

Doesn't matter how many times this is proven and repeated the trumpies dismiss it.

 

15 minutes ago, Morch said:

Your views of China's technological prowess can be labeled wishful thinking, delusional and whatever help you through the night. The 'master race' bit is yet again, irrelevant scaremongering and hyperbole.

As for the "master race" quote, then ALL intelligent people should be alarmed at this....

 

Earlier in the speech, Trump played on the fears of his nearly all-white crowd, telling them: "Every family in Minnesota needs to know about sleepy Joe Biden's extreme plan to flood your state with an influx of refugees from Somalia, from other places all over the planet."

He also targeted Minnesota congresswoman Ilhan Omar, a Somali refugee who has previously described Trump as a "xenophobic, racist tyrant", by repeating discredited claims that she had married her own brother.

 

Also open the link below as it clearly shows trumps stance and his racist beliefs and is truly shocking.......

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12367607

9 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

        Trump is not the best US President, but he's right to condemn China and WHO, China's lies and cover up amounts to negligent manslaughter in any other language, of hundreds of thousand's of lives world wide, 

        The Chinese are only good at copying and stealing technology, they should not allowed to fool around with such terrible germ warfare activities, its not the first time, probably not the last, in their quest to be the master race. 

Yes, China must be held accountable.

Unfortunately, no one is doing that. The only country which has made an effort to stand up against  China is Australia and all it has received are empty words of support.  

Yes, the Chinese are  diabolical when it comes to intellectual property theft, but the west so easily prostitutes itself. look at how it chases after chinese "students". look at how westerners fall over each other thinking they will strike it rich in China. Look at how westerners so easily sell their valuable  assets to the Chinese yet  allow themselves to be walked on when they  try to operate in China.

 

Yes it was good that Trump said something. Unfortunately, without actions, they were empty words. The west must act together to protect its freedom and to hold the Chinese responsible for the vast amount of environmental damage and unethical depletion of  natural resources. Greta and her fans should be  targeting China not western countries who are the leaders in climate change reform.

 

I thank Trump for saying something. Now he needs to act.

1 minute ago, geriatrickid said:

Yes, China must be held accountable.

Unfortunately, no one is doing that. The only country which has made an effort to stand up against  China is Australia and all it has received are empty words of support.  

Yes, the Chinese are  diabolical when it comes to intellectual property theft, but the west so easily prostitutes itself. look at how it chases after chinese "students". look at how westerners fall over each other thinking they will strike it rich in China. Look at how westerners so easily sell their valuable  assets to the Chinese yet  allow themselves to be walked on when they  try to operate in China.

 

Yes it was good that Trump said something. Unfortunately, without actions, they were empty words. The west must act together to protect its freedom and to hold the Chinese responsible for the vast amount of environmental damage and unethical depletion of  natural resources. Greta and her fans should be  targeting China not western countries who are the leaders in climate change reform.

 

I thank Trump for saying something. Now he needs to act.

 

Given Trump excels at alienating existing allies and (probably) makes new ones weary, the choices for such a coalition seem limited. That's assuming countries can find enough common ground to cooperate, and that Trump got a real intention of going anywhere with his rhetoric, and the willingness to pay for it - one way or another.

4 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The west must act together to protect its freedom and to hold the Chinese responsible for the vast amount of environmental damage and unethical depletion of  natural resources. Greta and her fans should be  targeting China not western countries who are the leaders in climate change reform.

You may end up being surprised by China. They are starting to deal with it in the Chinese way: make plans, finance R&D and production, implement regulations which are in coherence with the plan and trigger consumption.... and end up doing business with it. That's how they became a leader in solar panels and are currently becoming a leader for electric cars.

On 9/23/2020 at 12:11 PM, rkidlad said:

The virus came from Wuhan and the CCP tried to cover it up. This is a fact. 

There was no cover up. Even my local Malaysian newspaper had reported it on January 1st.

 

Chinese officials investigate cause of pneumonia outbreak in Wuhan

The warning by the police given to Dr Li Wenliang was about his rumour spreading that the disease was SARS. It was not SARS. He was not a whistleblower because the suspicious pneumonia cases already were reported by China to the WHO. And he was not a whistleblower because he was not even a doctor involved in the initial cases because he was an eye doctor. So, where is the so-called cover-up?

On 9/24/2020 at 9:43 AM, geriatrickid said:

Trump did not stop flights from China.

Flights continued and hundreds of thousands of people entered the USA between the "restriction" and the  time in April when   airlines suspended their  operations. More importantly, comprehensive screening measures including quarantine/self isolation were not in place. The NYT  did an analysis and arrived at 430,000 passengers on direct flights.  Toss in the  indirect flights and the number is larger.

Bill Gates said the travel ban made the situation worse:
 

 

28 minutes ago, Selatan said:

There was no cover up. Even my local Malaysian newspaper had reported it on January 1st.

 

Chinese officials investigate cause of pneumonia outbreak in Wuhan

The warning by the police given to Dr Li Wenliang was about his rumour spreading that the disease was SARS. It was not SARS. He was not a whistleblower because the suspicious pneumonia cases already were reported by China to the WHO. And he was not a whistleblower because he was not even a doctor involved in the initial cases because he was an eye doctor. So, where is the so-called cover-up?

https://victimsofcommunism.org/publication/chinese-communist-party-world-health-organization-culpability-in-coronavirus-pandemic/

 

it's very well documented how it was covered up.

 

Please feel free to refute any of the official statements made by the CCP or WHO.

 

I knew about the a virus back in December. What I didn't know is how serious it would all be as it was played down by the CCP and WHO. 

4 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

https://victimsofcommunism.org/publication/chinese-communist-party-world-health-organization-culpability-in-coronavirus-pandemic/

 

it's very well documented how it was covered up.

 

Please feel free to refute any of the official statements made by the CCP or WHO.

 

I knew about the a virus back in December. What I didn't know is how serious it would all be as it was played down by the CCP and WHO. 

Plenty of evidence in many other countries that Covid-19 were there even before December 2019. Why nobody claimed that those countries were involved in covering-up their cases? Simple. Because they didn't know what was happening. They don't call it a novel coronavirus for nothing. 

Coronavirus: France's first known case 'was in December'

Coronavirus: ‘strange pneumonia’ seen in Lombardy in November, leading Italian doctor says

Brazil finds coronavirus in sewage sample in November 2019

 

Coronavirus found in March 2019 sewage sample: Spanish study

July 2019 in the US:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-gzm_sOM0

7 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

https://victimsofcommunism.org/publication/chinese-communist-party-world-health-organization-culpability-in-coronavirus-pandemic/

 

it's very well documented how it was covered up.

 

Please feel free to refute any of the official statements made by the CCP or WHO.

 

I knew about the a virus back in December. What I didn't know is how serious it would all be as it was played down by the CCP and WHO. 

There's surely plenty of interesting information in it. The problem seems to be the information that it omits to provide. In particular, there is no mention of official reports and conferences by the WHO, which may contradict the claims made. Starting with this one:

JANUARY 14, 202011:27

WHO says new China virus could spread, it's warning all hospitals

There has been “limited” human-to-human transmission of a new coronavirus that has struck in China, mainly small clusters in families, but there is potential for wider spread, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Tuesday.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/china-health-pneumonia-who/who-says-new-china-virus-could-spread-its-warning-all-hospitals-idUSL8N29F48F

Just now, Selatan said:

Plenty of evidence in many other countries that Covid-19 were there even before December 2019. Why nobody claimed that those countries were involved in covering-up their cases? Simple. Because they didn't know what was happening. They don't call it a novel coronavirus for nothing. 

Coronavirus: France's first known case 'was in December'

Coronavirus: ‘strange pneumonia’ seen in Lombardy in November, leading Italian doctor says

Brazil finds coronavirus in sewage sample in November 2019

 

Coronavirus found in March 2019 sewage sample: Spanish study

July 2019 in the US:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-gzm_sOM0

"All the published genetic sequences of SARS-CoV-2 isolated from human cases are very similar, suggesting that the start of the outbreak resulted from a single point introduction in the human population around the time that the virus was first reported in humans in Wuhan, China. The analyses of the published genetic sequences further suggest that the spillover from an animal source
to humans happened during the last quarter of 2019"

 

The only people arguing it's origin are the CCP and 'journalists' working for the Global Times or Xinhua, etc. It's well established where it came from. If it came from somewhere else, we'd have known. That's why it started in Wuhan. Because that's where it comes from. 

6 minutes ago, candide said:

There's surely plenty of interesting information in it. The problem seems to be the information that it omits to provide. In particular, there is no mention of official reports and conferences by the WHO, which may contradict the claims made. Starting with this one:

JANUARY 14, 202011:27

WHO says new China virus could spread, it's warning all hospitals

There has been “limited” human-to-human transmission of a new coronavirus that has struck in China, mainly small clusters in families, but there is potential for wider spread, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Tuesday.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/china-health-pneumonia-who/who-says-new-china-virus-could-spread-its-warning-all-hospitals-idUSL8N29F48F

Yes, they didn't clearly state weather it could or could not be passed on human to human. They didn't clearly state something they already knew to be true.

 

That's the epitome of a 'cover up'. 

2 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Yes, they didn't clearly state weather it could or could not be passed on human to human. They didn't clearly state something they already knew to be true.

 

That's the epitome of a 'cover up'. 

Aren't you able to read what is written? "There has been “limited” human-to-human transmission of a new coronavirus that has struck in China". Limited or not, they clearly stated that there has been HtoH transmission and that hospitals and health authorities should be ready in case of wider transmission. This has been announced at an official WHO conference and also printed in the daily reports diffused by the WHO.

 

I don't deny that China messed up the initial response and that information was not so clear at the beginning. My point is that from mid-January, it was becoming more clear and warnings have been made. From this starting point, some countries succeeded in designing and implementing a relevant response (I.e. SK and Germany), and others messed up (I.e. UK and USA) despite the fact that they had more time to prepare their response.

 

Of course, it doesn't fit Trump's rethoric. 

7 minutes ago, candide said:

Aren't you able to read what is written? "There has been “limited” human-to-human transmission of a new coronavirus that has struck in China". Limited or not, they clearly stated that there has been HtoH transmission and that hospitals and health authorities should be ready in case of wider transmission. This has been announced at an official WHO conference and also printed in the daily reports diffused by the WHO.

 

I don't deny that China messed up the initial response and that information was not so clear at the beginning. My point is that from mid-January, it was becoming more clear and warnings have been made. From this starting point, some countries succeeded in designing and implementing a relevant response (I.e. SK and Germany), and others messed up (I.e. UK and USA) despite the fact that they had more time to prepare their response.

 

Of course, it doesn't fit Trump's rethoric. 

Not sure why you're referring to Trump within our conversation. My point is purely that the virus came from Wuhan and the CCP tried to cover it up. Here's a tweet from WHO:

 

 

 

Now this was at least two weeks after Chinese officials knew 100% it could be spread human to human. 

Edited September 25, 20205 yr by rkidlad

9 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Not sure why you're referring to Trump within our conversation. My point is purely that the virus came from Wuhan and the CCP tried to cover it up. Here's a tweet from WHO:

 

 

 

Now this was at least two weeks after Chinese officials knew 100% it could be spread human to human. 

As I said I don't deny China messed up at the beginning. As for this message, note (1) that the Chinese worded it quite cautiously: "preliminary investigation"..."no clear evidence" (evidence is not clear) (2) no country makes decisions based on a tweet, in particular as (3) the same day (that's why I showed it a my previous post), the WHO was making an official statement that there was H2H transmission and that hospital worldwide should get ready to face a spread.

 

The reason I introduce Trump is the OP. Trump tries to put all the blame on China and the WHO in the hope that people may forget about his mishandling of the crisis.