Pope denies audience with Pompeo; Vatican warns against playing politics over China

[Deli]

20 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

Good for Pope Francis. Please join into politics and condemn the US attempt at hegemony through endless lying. Like Joe Biden should have avoided debating Trump because of his endless lies...Pope Francis should permanently ban the other half of the evil duo, Pompeo.

Amen

[mthomsen111]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

What is your view based on? Is the Vatican obligated to follow USA foreign policy? Are the interests of the USA and the Vatican similar in this regard? The Vatican does not command armies, and usually goes about things in a more diplomatic way.

By your line of reasoning, no country should ever criticize the policies of any other nation or organization. Criticizing the Vatican or China or Russia doesn't mean that any of these entities are necessarily obliged, legally or morally, to follow USA foreign policy.

[Morch]

17 minutes ago, mthomsen111 said:

By your line of reasoning, no country should ever criticize the policies of any other nation or organization. Criticizing the Vatican or China or Russia doesn't mean that any of these entities are necessarily obliged, legally or morally, to follow USA foreign policy.

 

No such 'line of reasoning' offered. I made a specific comment, rather than a general one.

 

Your post makes a claim regarding 'acquiescence to China'. This applies if adopting and embracing Trump's administration's stance. It's not necessarily how things are. Countries and governments can have different policies, different views, and different ways to go about things. 

[mthomsen111]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No such 'line of reasoning' offered. I made a specific comment, rather than a general one.

 

Your post makes a claim regarding 'acquiescence to China'. This applies if adopting and embracing Trump's administration's stance. It's not necessarily how things are. Countries and governments can have different policies, different views, and different ways to go about things. 

It may not be how things are but it can be reasonably construed to be that way. And yes, countries and governments can differ with each other. And countries and governments can criticize each other if one government sees things one way and another another.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, mthomsen111 said:

It may not be how things are but it can be reasonably construed to be that way. And yes, countries and governments can differ with each other. And countries and governments can criticize each other if one government sees things one way and another another.

 

Construed by whom? Even the usage of the term 'acquiescence' implies a not too objective point of view. The Vatican got a different agenda than the USA's - using such terms applies if one sees the latter as being more important than the former.

[Mavideol]

yes, the orange man will blame it on an attack from the left, as he said everybody is after him  555

[BobBKK]

Pathetic Pope who kow-tows to the Chinese for the money (of course The Vatican doesn't have enough wealth)

[mthomsen111]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Construed by whom? Even the usage of the term 'acquiescence' implies a not too objective point of view. The Vatican got a different agenda than the USA's - using such terms applies if one sees the latter as being more important than the former.

Well, by Catholic prelates, among others.

The announcement of the Vatican’s breakthrough deal with China led critics, including prelates within the church, to accuse Francis of selling out the members of his flock who had suffered for the church. Francis argued that Catholics outside of China now had “an important duty: to accompany our brothers and sisters in China” and recalled the example of Abraham, who was called by God to set out for an unknown land to receive his inheritance.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/world/europe/china-pope-francis-catholics.html

 

And then there's this

China Is Already Breaking Its Vatican Deal

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/17/china-francis-vatican/

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by mthomsen111

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, mthomsen111 said:

Well, by Catholic prelates, among others.

The announcement of the Vatican’s breakthrough deal with China led critics, including prelates within the church, to accuse Francis of selling out the members of his flock who had suffered for the church. Francis argued that Catholics outside of China now had “an important duty: to accompany our brothers and sisters in China” and recalled the example of Abraham, who was called by God to set out for an unknown land to receive his inheritance.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/world/europe/china-pope-francis-catholics.html

 

And then there's this

China Is Already Breaking Its Vatican Deal

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/17/china-francis-vatican/

 

 

Yeah, that's sort of like domestic politics. I don't know what people would expect the Pope to realistically do vs. China, in a manner that won't makes things terrible for Catholics there.

[mthomsen111]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yeah, that's sort of like domestic politics. I don't know what people would expect the Pope to realistically do vs. China, in a manner that won't makes things terrible for Catholics there.

It was a difficult choice. Just not so clear that coming to an agreement with the Chinese govt, made any difference as to how Chinese Catholics are treated.

[tomazbodner]

With the direction of democracy in the US, he might better seek audience in Mecca...

[mthomsen111]

7 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

With the direction of democracy in the US, he might better seek audience in Mecca...

Well, the Vatican's form of government is not exactly a democracy.

[tomazbodner]

12 minutes ago, mthomsen111 said:

Well, the Vatican's form of government is not exactly a democracy.

 

True as well...

[ChouDoufu]

21 hours ago, Morch said:

 

So got to wonder why Pompeo asked for a meeting.

 

good question.  why request an audience knowing he'd be refused?

 

must consider how the refusal will play on fox, and which part of the (shrinking) base is being targeted.  what are the benefits of providing trump with a new twitter target?

[Mavideol]

33 minutes ago, mthomsen111 said:

Well, the Vatican's form of government is not exactly a democracy.

why should it be, it's a religious institution runned by a mafia, who would expect democracy from that

[Morch]

44 minutes ago, mthomsen111 said:

It was a difficult choice. Just not so clear that coming to an agreement with the Chinese govt, made any difference as to how Chinese Catholics are treated.

 

Kinda the same with trade wars - not always easy to win, and not always the expected consequences.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

Pathetic Pope who kow-tows to the Chinese for the money (of course The Vatican doesn't have enough wealth)

 

Are you quite sure it was 'for the money'?

 

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

good question.  why request an audience knowing he'd be refused?

 

must consider how the refusal will play on fox, and which part of the (shrinking) base is being targeted.  what are the benefits of providing trump with a new twitter target?

 

Maybe plain hubris. Maybe something to do with Catholic and/or Evangelical voting trends. Maybe more of the It's-Trump-Alone-vs-China rhetoric. Who knows. I'd go with the first one, though.

[wabothai]

may be bully boy II, just wanted to go for a confession, who knows.

[OJAS]

On 10/1/2020 at 7:18 PM, Morch said:

 

Well, for one thing, the election year thing is not an issue for them.

Other than that your 'any time' bit is nonsense.

Never heard of sarcasm, then, have you?

 

[ballpoint]

So the Vatican made deals with the Nazis, any number of corrupt and sadistic Latin American dictators, and African despots, but won't do so with the Trump Whitehouse?  Kinda puts things into perspective.

[rott]

On 10/1/2020 at 2:23 PM, Brunolem said:

Why would the Pope give an audience to the antichrist? 

I think you've got the antichrist the wrong way round.