Thai hotel seeks deal with guest facing jail over bad reviews

[rexall]

15 hours ago, YetAnother said:

whole thing is a tempest in a teapot; thailand is what it is, including a sea of foolish, irrational laws; they need settle this with a couple wais; damage already done to thai tourism and that hotel;

he gets jailed then even worse

How about "Sir, we don't allow outside drinks. However, since you appear to be an idiot, we are going to let it go this time. Next time, however, I am afraid we are going to have to charge corkage that will be so painful it will feel like passing a kidney stone!"  

Gawd!  To I have to think of EVERYTHING????

Edited October 2, 2020 by rexall

[DualSportBiker]

There seems to be massive misunderstanding of what constitutes a review of a hotel or restaurant. There are bounds to what can be said, regardless of whether expressing an opinion or fact.

 

Opinions would include bad service, tasteless food, corked wine, smelly toilets etc. Factual comments could include A/C did not work, light bulbs were dead, no parking, broken windows. All the above are acceptable content for a negative review. There are negative reviews of The Sea View Resort hotel, both factual (toilets did not work) and opinion (not ideal for old people). The hotel replied and thanked the reviewers for their negative input.

 

The muppet-in-question stated "modern day slavery" in his review. Prompted by his failure to accept paying a corkage fee (which every restaurant in Thailand charges and we all know it...) he made an accusation that is without evidence, malicious and slanderous. Consider this. You are walking through the village wet-market with your 18 year-old Thai niece/daughter or just your neighbour's kid. Some tourist cries out "Look, a sexpat! That's so disgusting!!" Within minutes the whole market has heard the echos of the comment and your reputation is tarnished. Is that acceptable to you? If not, you are siding with the hotel.

 

There are bounds on what is reasonable as a review. Those limits are the goods and services received or expected. Making unfounded accusations of illegal activity are not 'just his opinion' as some have stated. We are responsible for what we publish, we are held accountable by the legal frameworks we chose to live in. There is a strong argument to be made that the laws in question are too strict and open to abuse. However, making patently false unsupported accusations or illegal activity does not sit in the admittedly significant gray areas of this legislation. He went way too far and needs to rectify the damage he has done to a business that is overwhelmingly well perceived by its guests.

[BobBKK]

Sensible way forward. Get the guy to withdraw his stupid comments because he can't stump up the corkage fee - that's what will happen or he doesn't get his passport back and risks jail. He only stayed there ONE night yet was as vindictive and racist as hell.

[fxe1200]

Think about those, who are living here and are well aware of the defamation laws. They cannot write an honest review of a hotel, even when they find unsupportable sanitary shortcomings, which pose a health threat to the customers of the hotel in question. They could write to the management.  But as in my case nothing happened, though the letter was written politely and constructive, besides not accusing anybody. I decided to leave, for the aforementioned reasons. But I could not write my experiences on Trip Advisor, thus warning others, or force the management to remedy those shortcomings.  Happened to me in Hat Yai.

[ChipButty]

9 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

Where I com from he would sue his employer for doing so. He hasn't been proven guilty of anything nor sentenced. Many of my colleagues got speeding fines, which is far worse than anything Mr. Barnes has done, and merrily kept their jobs.

 

Just shows the abysmal level at which this country resides.

At the moment I would say they are not in a position to fire him, In the UK he would have grounds for unfair dismissal, what happened to innocent until proved guilty? but you know what its' like here 

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, TSF said:

It's a fortunate time for this hotel as there's no international tourism, so they're unlikely to see any or much impact from this whole incident.

Some stories stick. You see them whenever advice, warnings, or "strange things" about Thailand are put up on travel sites and elsewhere. How many people, for example, have not heard about the lese majeste law? And whenever it is mentioned it is often cited with the example of the Swiss man who got a 10 year sentence for his actions in 2006 or so. The Swiss was pardoned (after a few weeks) but the story continues to linger. This one will, too. It's on a different level than the murders people also mention. Most people cannot imagine themselves being murdered on vacation. And few travel sites want to put up stories about murders, as it cuts into their business.  But visitors can easily see themselves in the shoes of someone posting on TripAdvisor. And the travel guides will love mentioning it.

[micmichd]

2 hours ago, Dart12 said:

There is an article that published what the man wrote, how the hotel replied, and how the man replied back again, in open letters.

Also has been found out that he was using multiple accounts to slander them.  

I believe you should be able to write bad reviews.  This guy wasn't writing reviews....He came off like a nasty little high school girl making stuff up.

I have a feeling he was a terrible person and has done this kind of bbullying before many times online.

He hotels replies were very cordial and appropriate.  But I think there was probably some things that could have been handled better.

Especially dragging the man off for JAIL.

Both parties were wrong.

In the end, I think both parties are getting what they deserved.  This man might finally learn a lesson.

The hotel is getting world wide disdain.

And maybe even Thailand might have to look at reforming the severity of

that law?  

Up to both sides now. 

The complaining customer could tell the whole story behind. 

And the hotel could do what many restaurants and cafés do now : put a sign near the entrance stating you'll get fined if you bring anything with you from outside the hotel. Which is actually common sense all over the world.

TripAdvisor could post such a warning, too. 

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

No worry for those of us that don't go on vicious attacks .

Are you including those on TVF in that statement?

[aroiaroi]

The snowflakes that manage this hotel have made a terrible decision for the business and for their careers (it's a career ending mistake).

Pressing charges leading to jail time for a 1 star review ? Good luck trying to justify that to a future employer without looking like a complete fool.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by aroiaroi

[DualSportBiker]

7 minutes ago, fxe1200 said:

They cannot write an honest review of a hotel,

How is accusation of 'modern day slavery' an honest review?

[Harry Fingerling]

Public apology from the American in return for a months free corkage and a dodgy cheque.????

[John Drake]

59 minutes ago, terje johnsen said:

It was a norwegian that get expelled from the us.

Then you better prove it. Otherwise, it's simply an exaggerated bit of hyperbole. Hell, man, illegal aliens can kill people while drunk or molest children and still not be thrown out fo the country. Cursing in a bank gets you deported? What are you drinking?

[Surasak]

For what its worth, my take on this is, both sides have taken the wrong approach. No comment as to who is right or wrong, but the complainant appears to have been somewhat aggressive in his initial approach. This compounded with the postings on TripAdvisor obviously got someones back up at the hotel. Heat of the moment and all that.  Had Mr Barnes approached the manager initially in a calm and reasonable way, pointing out his grievances, he may have had his complaints settled in an amicable way???

On the other hand, it would not them have become broadcast to the world, that Thailand has some very draconian and silly laws. I don't see Thailand catching up with the 21st century in the foreseeable future.      

[randy723]

16 hours ago, mr mr said:

 

are any of these people adults ? 

 

to all involved. please let go of your egos. offer the man a free stay. provide a service worth reviewing and everyone is happy. 

 

i am 100 % sure mr barnes is totally without any fault..... right mr barnes ? 

IF they do this then the police get nothing and they will not go for it

[rexall]

10 minutes ago, DualSportBiker said:

Some tourist cries out "Look, a sexpat! That's so disgusting!!" Within minutes the whole market has heard the echos of the comment and your reputation is tarnished. Is that acceptable to you?  

 

There are bounds on what is reasonable as a review ...

Bull-oney!  "Acceptable" is a very subjective, slippery sort of word here.  Acceptable to whom and on what basis?  First of all, it is highly unlikely that "Look, a sexpat!" will "tarnish" one's reputation, whatever that is supposed to mean. It may be stupid and unkind and unfortunate, but should we jail and fine the tourist for for being an idiot? Watch your mouth, or the man comes and takes you away!   I'm not a lawyer, but I am pretty sure that defamation and slander--at least in the U.S.--depend on actual, provable damages, usually financial, as a result of the statements. Just being annoyed and/or embarrassed does not really constitute damage. Anyway, like it or not, there is a lot of leeway as long as the statements are clearly expressed as an opinion rather than as a fact. Obviously that doesn't apply in Thailand or in other societies still clinging to medieval "honor culture."  "You can't say about my mamma!!!!   Grrrrrr!!!  Thems fight'in words!!!"

[frontier9]

It just goes as the more extreme version of experiences like the way Airbnb hosts go psycho on you if you leave anything but 5 stars. They sometimes attacked me because i, correctly, said it wasn't clean so ... can't exactly get 5 stars for that. Or that its old and decrepit ... i mean they see a bad review as an attack on their livelyhood rather than genuine feedback they need to respond to ... but of course not all. Many are just awesome and you can always change your review if you see they care. 

Police seem like a negotiation tool gone horribly wrong.

[swisstree]

WoW beautiful hotel on such a beautiful beach! The problem surely is; like in all Asia; if it is not a western management it is a bad management.

[tomauasia]

My friends in Australia laughed at Sea View hotel. NO Australian ever going to stay there or US. Cry to little Somchai at RTP. 

You are sick people

[Flying Saucage]

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

The Czech manager will be the sacrificial offering. Not the customer's fault. Not the owner's fault. It was that nasty ole Czech guy's fault.

Very likely, yes! With this the Thai owner will not lose face then, and then it is one more time a farang who tarnished the image of Thailand in the world. Makes sense.

[Dukeleto]

Let me put it this way, I will avoid this hotel like the plague, not due to the reviews placed by the guest but because of their complete and over the top reaction to them.

[Foghorn]

If the hotel uses or has used  positive reviews to get customers they cannot complain about bad reviews that turn customers away , except in thailand 

[DualSportBiker]

42 minutes ago, rexall said:

Bull-oney!  "Acceptable" is a very subjective, slippery sort of word here.  Acceptable to whom and on what basis?  First of all, it is highly unlikely that "Look, a sexpat!" will "tarnish" one's reputation, whatever that is supposed to mean. It may be stupid and unkind and unfortunate, but should we jail and fine the tourist for for being an idiot? Watch your mouth, or the man comes and takes you away!   I'm not a lawyer, but I am pretty sure that defamation and slander--at least in the U.S.--depend on actual, provable damages, usually financial, as a result of the statements. Just being annoyed and/or embarrassed does not really constitute damage. Anyway, like it or not, there is a lot of leeway as long as the statements are clearly expressed as an opinion rather than as a fact. Obviously that doesn't apply in Thailand or in other societies still clinging to medieval "honor culture."  "You can't say about my mamma!!!!   Grrrrrr!!!  Thems fight'in words!!!"

It must be fun living in a country you consider medieval. Win many friends telling them they are backward?

 

My analogy was just that, an attempt to make the process of events the hotel went through relatable. I don't believe that you would not react to a blatant and public slander of such a magnitude, I know I would because they are fight'in words as you put it. Defamation laws exist in many countries, not just here, "In the UK, defamation allows freedom of speech to prosper but keeps a check on telling lies that could damage someone’s reputation or business." Notice the language states 'could' not 'proven to'. I reject your position that his statements were expressed as an opinion. That is a weak excuse for unfounded and unwarranted slander. The guy clearly lashed out 'cause he was angry and he went too far. If it were not for the likely damage to Thailand's reputation, the muppet should be whipped.

[PaoloR]

Whereas I understand the views of many on here, I would ask them to look at the bigger picture and both sides of the equation.

I own a hotel and under today's market, driven by the internet and social media, approximately 90% of our business comes from online bookings through Agoda, Booking.com, Expedia etc. Apart from viewing the basic information and the photos (many of which are doctored!) the primary influence for most people are the reviews.

One bad review can be ignored - multiple bad reviews under different names lead many people to decline to book at that hotel.

Certain people, aware of this situation, take advantage. I have had guests threaten me with a bad review unless I gave them a discount. Others who have been upset by a week of bad weather and have written a bad review, not so much about our service, more about the weather - but never the less a review lowering our hard earned rating.

When a review that we consider is unfair is published, we have the right to respond and to ask the website to appeal the review. 

Mostly they send us a platitudinous statement that we can learn more from bad reviews than good ones and let the review stand - it is after all the guest that pays them not us.

If however they consider the review unfair they will remove it.

The guest in this instance, being unhappy with having his review not published, proceeded to publish further reviews under different names. This is a direct and deliberate attempt to damage someone's livelihood and is unfair when the hotel has no recourse.

The hotel owner, taking advantage of Thailand's draconian defamation laws, is within his rights to sue - particularly as the guest is unwilling to enter into a dialogue on the matter. However, recourse to the law only makes both parties look stupid.

At most a cease and desist letter/e-mail should have sufficed.

 

To those on this forum who have got their proverbials in a twist over how this guy has been treated consider the following:

1. The guy is a teacher and should be intelligent enough to be aware of the law in any country he resides in.

2. He comes from one of the most litigious countries in the world and should be well aware of these matters - he's not in Kansas now.

3. By sending in reviews under a different name/account he has moved himself from being an aggrieved party to one deliberately attempting harm - not a good position under the law.

4. He was allowed to avoid a legitimate corkage fee after making a fuss and has a right to mention this. To bring up words like slavery is taking it to far.

5. If he had backed down, answered the hotel and desisted he would not have spent time locked up and would not be facing potential loss of work-permit, job and permission to stay here.

 

Neither party has covered themselves in glory

 

Tip: When viewing hotels (I travel a lot and stay in many) I always disregard the best and the worst reviews in order to get the best, most realistic, view of how people feel and what the hotel is like. Remember some sites do not require any proof that you even stayed at the hotel! Others, such as Agoda and their affiliates, will only let you review a property you have stayed at.

[marinediscoking]

Red Bar is still at the top of the listing for this hotel on Trip advisor:

 

 

Hotel seeks retraction and precondition before meeting:

Mr Pholkrit said the American would need to retract his claims. "We want the disputed party to stop the damage by deleting the old reviews and clarify that his comments were not entirely about his experience with our service," he said.

[aroiaroi]

He will most likely have to make a public apology, but privately get a chunk of cash from the hotel, and perhaps a bottle of gin.

The careers of the hotel manager is now basically over (self inflicted).


 

[TERMINATOR3AB]

Love it   great for Thailand  tourism  they get all they deserve

Laws   that are so  stupid  the world is  laughing  on one side  and  shock  on the other 

Now the  planes will  have to turn tourists away  will be so  busy...lol

Ecept  for the Chinese  they  cant read  English  or Thai  so they  have not  a clue what happened 

They  just want  the prawns  

Good  luck Thailand

[ReLo]

They do not seek deal to help the foreigner, they seek deal because they finally understand how they fuxxed up and how their reputation is destroyed for a long time !

 

Foreigner should refuse deal except if they pay him a lot of money !!!

 

no respect for stupid Thai business ! I am posting reviews since years and will keep posting as much as I can to destroy them !

 

 

[ReLo]

10 minutes ago, aroiaroi said:

The careers of the hotel manager is now basically over (self inflicted).

this is the MINIMUM that should happen to him !

 

 

[ReLo]

54 minutes ago, Dukeleto said:

Let me put it this way, I will avoid this hotel like the plague, not due to the reviews placed by the guest but because of their complete and over the top reaction to them.

 

We are millions around the world in this situation ! And some people will take care that the truth comes first in google when anybody will be looking for reviews about this hotel...

 

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by ReLo

[ReLo]

52 minutes ago, Flying Saucage said:

Thai owner will not lose

he cannot lose what he never had !