Thai Slavery In The Middle East

[bangkokrick]

I have visited the middle east on numerous occasions and i have been very disturbed by what i have seen regarding the overseas workers. Most of these overseas workers that i have met have been given a 2 year contract working in the 'land of milk and honey'. They soon find out that the 2 year contract say for a factory worker will become an open ended contract working in a brothel.

The way this works is that the local Arab business owners sponsor the overseas workers for a designated period of time and pay a sponsorship fee to engage them in work in the Middle East. This is normally organised through an agent.

When the workers arrive they are taken to the factories/brothels and they have their passports taken from them until they can repay the sponsorship money to their sponsor. Of course they can never pay off the sponsorship money because of the interest charges. They have nowhere to go and no one to complain to and they are screwed without a passport.

I have seen this and i have spoken to people that are actually in this terrible position so i know that it exists. I can not believe just how hypocritical the Arab muslims can be as this goes against all of their so called beliefs.

Slavery report

[eek]

Sadly this kind of thing happens all over, not just to Thais. Equally awful of course.

Thing is..what can people seriously do to prevent this happening? Exploitation is not easy to stop. Supply and demand.

In another thread some guy even said applied to going with bg's as a " when in Rome .." situation. I dont quite get that somehow its ok in some peoples minds to go with a bg here when equally many are being just as exploited, but being appauled with articles such as this. Trading the human body (without free will..or out of desperation) is unethical regardless of what country you are in (or where the person is from).

I dont want to become a typical high and mighty moralist about this. Its not something i usually debate. I just find some peoples reasonings for some things a tad bewildering and hypocritical.

[Prakanong]

Just last week in the PI I was reading in a local newspaper how just over 1000 Filipino's had been returned home after having refuge in the PI Embassies in countries like Lebanon, UAE and Saudi.

Given the 1.2 billion USD a month remittance coming to the PI I am sure they do not want to break that golden egg but they do seem to take care of their own when something goes wrong

[bangkokrick]

Sadly this kind of thing happens all over, not just to Thais. Equally awful of course.

Thing is..what can people seriously do to prevent this happening? Exploitation is not easy to stop. Supply and demand.

In another thread some guy even said applied to going with bg's as a " when in Rome .." situation. I dont quite get that somehow its ok in some peoples minds to go with a bg here when equally many are being just as exploited, but being appauled with articles such as this. Trading the human body (without free will..or out of desperation) is unethical regardless of what country you are in (or where the person is from).

I dont want to become a typical high and mighty moralist about this. Its not something i usually debate. I just find some peoples reasonings for some things a tad bewildering and hypocritical.

I completely agree with your thoughts, but i think the main difference between the BG's and the enslaved is that in most cases the Bg's volunteer to do this work. Whereas the latter are tricked into thinking that they are going to work somewhere that will improve their lives when in reality it is the opposite. The confiscation of anyones passport when they are working abroad ensures that they have nowhere to run.

[Begbie]

How much?

[kmart]

There was a story about Thai prostitutes recently escaping from Bahrain in the local press only last week.

A lot of the overseas working placement companies based here are scam artists, scamming their own people with relative impunity. Several of my staff at work have been victims of this, before joining our company.

A lot of Burmese, and Cambodian people are lured here also and treated like animals by Thais, so maybe its karma?

[bangkokrick]

How much?

How much what?

[bina]

guys, if any of u are interested u shouldread my former posts about thai immigration workers...

u all read about it, i live it...

as many of u know ihave married a thai man here in israel; i also volunteered for worker rights organizations dealing with thais...

the situation as of this month here is that conditions in israel, instead of improving, are deteriating for thai workers, not because of the living conditions (hve improved due to massive help from thai consulate pressure and other orgs. , ) but because the manpower companies are now asking for even larger sums of money for 'placement' and the workers dont manage to give it back... among chinese however, it is worse as the chinese mafia works here as well causing chinese workers to pay protection. thai workers dont have this pressure, on the other hand, they are placed in villages that are very far from large cities (agricultural work) and never leave the village and have no external resources except word of mouth among their 'brothers'/friends in other villages.

my husband had his passport withheld; it is now returned. he was locked in at nites at one village so he wouldnt run away, but police immigration broke in (his 'owner' didnt have a visa/permit for thai workers therefore my husband was illegal , w/o knowing that he had been 'given' to an other 'employer' who didnt hold the visa/permit.) and he was jailed for three months before being replaced. most manpower companies prefer not to help when this happens as they dont get a finders' fee; they prefer to give visa/permit holders new thai workers that have paid the exorbitant sums... this means that many thai when they reach four years here, get 'arrested' by phony immigration officials, and taken forceably to the airplane and sent home w/o having earned all their money or getting their bak pay.

my husband's 'boss' had my husband living in a cellar (dirt walls etc); yes, he had a kitchen, and was given 25 kilo bag of rice per month. however, they decided when he could visit me or not.

now, he has a marriage visa with a 'unrestricted' w/permit; however, due to snafu , he has not been released to work as he is still held on his 'boss's' 'permit so three days ago was told he must go (the same day!!!) up north four hours away, to work. we are now waiting for them to sort out the problem....

yesterday some thai representative of TLC (a thai workers org) came to israel to see for herself the conditions etc; it seems that in the near future, thai workers here at least will not need to go thru placementagencies but will receive their permits, straight form the source and if they dont like the conditions etc, will be entitled to complain, leave, move etc without fear of being locked in, passports held, 'arrested', deported, etc.

i wont hold my breath. i've been dealing with thai workers for five years now; one of my own guys, once he was moved to an other moshav (we had our visa permit numbers reduce so we had to five him up so tried to choose a place for him close by his friends etc and so pulled strings) got payed only every four months; they were locked in at nite., they worked from 5 a.m. to 19 00 with one bread for breakfast at 10 00 a.m. , no breaks for anything else (we had understood that this was supposedly a 'good' employer turns out NOT)...i was uneable to get his money for him when he went home as he was unwilling to fill in a police complaint against the guy.

the thai embassy here is not complacent but it is the work of one person against thousands of problems... btw, here the legal minimum wage is 18/hour. my husband gets 13 shekel /hour with no benefits, no insurance, etc. (illegal but everyone pays in cash if he can get away with it)...

fortunately, the sex worker groups dont include thai for the most part; russians here are the main target for white slave trade in sex workers. filipanas are aslo exploited sa live in nursing workers sometimes under awful conditons (no breaks, no days off, sexual harrassment etc. however, filipinas speak english and speak out. thai workers stay mute, have no access to outsiders (they live far away, dont speak hebrew or english and often the 'owner' refuses entry to anyone from 'outside') . i was chased by a group of nasty men in cars when going to see conditions in a moshav, i photoed the place and had my camera /film ripped from hands. later, these same men threatened a police officer and the case came to court.

this is one of many.

however, thai workers, many of whom know about all these conditons, still want to come to work herre (not all employers are evil, and those that are decent will have brothers/uncles/friends of exworkers come to work as they are requested) and they refuse to file complaints against their abusers.

many just run away and manage, like my husband did, to work for another year w/o being legal, sleeping in greenhouses, in storage bins , tractor sheds etc and running faster than immigration police. in the end, they get caught.

we were lucky and managed to get him legal again even if it meant living in a cellar for a year ...

thought i might add my personal outlook on all this...

yesterday was may 1 worker rights day; anon didnt even know what i was talking about, he was busy moving rocks from a field in the moshav by levanon.

saw an article (in hebrew) that i wanted to translate, saved it but computer refuses to open it today. will have to double check)...

price for coming to israel is 5000 to 7000 or more dollars now as far as i remember. anon paid 5000 andfortunately ahs returned all his loans and land that was morgtaged out.

bina

israel

the stories are endless

edit: clarification of moshav payment situation for former worker

Edited May 2, 2007 by bina

[bangkokrick]

Bina That is an awful story and i am glad that you have posted it so that people can understand just what the overseas workers have to live with on a daily basis. Keep up the good work and good luck to you and your husband.

Cheers Rick

[Naam]

I have visited the middle east on numerous occasions and i have been very disturbed by what i have seen regarding the overseas workers. Most of these overseas workers that i have met have been given a 2 year contract working in the 'land of milk and honey'. They soon find out that the 2 year contract say for a factory worker will become an open ended contract working in a brothel.

a deplorable situation and tailor-made for bleeding hearts to rave and rant about

[bangkokrick]

I have visited the middle east on numerous occasions and i have been very disturbed by what i have seen regarding the overseas workers. Most of these overseas workers that i have met have been given a 2 year contract working in the 'land of milk and honey'. They soon find out that the 2 year contract say for a factory worker will become an open ended contract working in a brothel.

a deplorable situation and tailor-made for bleeding hearts to rave and rant about

Do i detect a hint of sarcasm in your reply Dr Naam. This situation is real and certainly not tailor made by any means. Are you taking over from where Mother Theresa left off?

[Naam]

I have visited the middle east on numerous occasions and i have been very disturbed by what i have seen regarding the overseas workers. Most of these overseas workers that i have met have been given a 2 year contract working in the 'land of milk and honey'. They soon find out that the 2 year contract say for a factory worker will become an open ended contract working in a brothel.

a deplorable situation and tailor-made for bleeding hearts to rave and rant about

Do i detect a hint of sarcasm in your reply Dr Naam. This situation is real and certainly not tailor made by any means. Are you taking over from where Mother Theresa left off?

Rick, it looks more like you are taking over from mother Theresa. a "hint" of sarcasm is an understatement. inf fact my reply was sarcasm pure and aimed at your generalising "Most of these overseas workers that i have met... the 2 year contract say for a factory worker will become an open ended contract working in a brothel". there are more foreign workers in the Gulf States (excluding Saudi Arabia) than these states have indigenous inhabitants. of course they have been and are still exploited to the utmost extent. an unfortunate situation which nobody will change. but that doesn't mean that thousands of them work in brothels.

[plachon]

guys, if any of u are interested u shouldread my former posts about thai immigration workers...

u all read about it, i live it...

as many of u know ihave married a thai man here in israel; i also volunteered for worker rights organizations dealing with thais...

the situation as of this month here is that conditions in israel, instead of improving, are deteriating for thai workers, not because of the living conditions (hve improved due to massive help from thai consulate pressure and other orgs. , ) but because the manpower companies are now asking for even larger sums of money for 'placement' and the workers dont manage to give it back... among chinese however, it is worse as the chinese mafia works here as well causing chinese workers to pay protection. thai workers dont have this pressure, on the other hand, they are placed in villages that are very far from large cities (agricultural work) and never leave the village and have no external resources except word of mouth among their 'brothers'/friends in other villages.

my husband had his passport withheld; it is now returned. he was locked in at nites at one village so he wouldnt run away, but police immigration broke in (his 'owner' didnt have a visa/permit for thai workers therefore my husband was illegal , w/o knowing that he had been 'given' to an other 'employer' who didnt hold the visa/permit.) and he was jailed for three months before being replaced. most manpower companies prefer not to help when this happens as they dont get a finders' fee; they prefer to give visa/permit holders new thai workers that have paid the exorbitant sums... this means that many thai when they reach four years here, get 'arrested' by phony immigration officials, and taken forceably to the airplane and sent home w/o having earned all their money or getting their bak pay.

my husband's 'boss' had my husband living in a cellar (dirt walls etc); yes, he had a kitchen, and was given 25 kilo bag of rice per month. however, they decided when he could visit me or not.

now, he has a marriage visa with a 'unrestricted' w/permit; however, due to snafu , he has not been released to work as he is still held on his 'boss's' 'permit so three days ago was told he must go (the same day!!!) up north four hours away, to work. we are now waiting for them to sort out the problem....

yesterday some thai representative of TLC (a thai workers org) came to israel to see for herself the conditions etc; it seems that in the near future, thai workers here at least will not need to go thru placementagencies but will receive their permits, straight form the source and if they dont like the conditions etc, will be entitled to complain, leave, move etc without fear of being locked in, passports held, 'arrested', deported, etc.

i wont hold my breath. i've been dealing with thai workers for five years now; one of my own guys, once he was moved to an other moshav (we had our visa permit numbers reduce so we had to five him up so tried to choose a place for him close by his friends etc and so pulled strings) got payed only every four months; they were locked in at nite., they worked from 5 a.m. to 19 00 with one bread for breakfast at 10 00 a.m. , no breaks for anything else (we had understood that this was supposedly a 'good' employer turns out NOT)...i was uneable to get his money for him when he went home as he was unwilling to fill in a police complaint against the guy.

the thai embassy here is not complacent but it is the work of one person against thousands of problems... btw, here the legal minimum wage is 18/hour. my husband gets 13 shekel /hour with no benefits, no insurance, etc. (illegal but everyone pays in cash if he can get away with it)...

fortunately, the sex worker groups dont include thai for the most part; russians here are the main target for white slave trade in sex workers. filipanas are aslo exploited sa live in nursing workers sometimes under awful conditons (no breaks, no days off, sexual harrassment etc. however, filipinas speak english and speak out. thai workers stay mute, have no access to outsiders (they live far away, dont speak hebrew or english and often the 'owner' refuses entry to anyone from 'outside') . i was chased by a group of nasty men in cars when going to see conditions in a moshav, i photoed the place and had my camera /film ripped from hands. later, these same men threatened a police officer and the case came to court.

this is one of many.

however, thai workers, many of whom know about all these conditons, still want to come to work herre (not all employers are evil, and those that are decent will have brothers/uncles/friends of exworkers come to work as they are requested) and they refuse to file complaints against their abusers.

many just run away and manage, like my husband did, to work for another year w/o being legal, sleeping in greenhouses, in storage bins , tractor sheds etc and running faster than immigration police. in the end, they get caught.

we were lucky and managed to get him legal again even if it meant living in a cellar for a year ...

thought i might add my personal outlook on all this...

yesterday was may 1 worker rights day; anon didnt even know what i was talking about, he was busy moving rocks from a field in the moshav by levanon.

saw an article (in hebrew) that i wanted to translate, saved it but computer refuses to open it today. will have to double check)...

price for coming to israel is 5000 to 7000 or more dollars now as far as i remember. anon paid 5000 andfortunately ahs returned all his loans and land that was morgtaged out.

bina

israel

the stories are endless

edit: clarification of moshav payment situation for former worker

Hi Bina,

Least some of them get paid! I slaved on a kibbutz when I were a lad and got paid jack-shit! Must have been raving mad in those days. On the plus side, did get to meet some nice people (mostly Swedes and Palestinians I should add), swim in the Dead and Red Seas (Galilee & Med were way too cold); touch snow in the Golan; meet a few nutcases who thought the second coming was nigh; and hangout at some cool places in Jerusalem, a city which grew on me I have to say, despite the violence and soldiers everywhere.

But in those days (1987), there weren't any Thai migrant workers to exploit as the Palestinians still had jobs, so it kind of makes me doubly mad that not only are Thais being used to take away local jobs, but then they're being cheated by their agents and employers.

Anyway, thanks very much Bina for doing your bit to help Isaan guys far from home on a short straw deal and for telling us how it is. I always tell Thai men thinking of going there, to think again, and now I'll have an extra warning for them. Shalom.

[khall64au]

There was a story about Thai prostitutes recently escaping from Bahrain in the local press only last week.

A lot of the overseas working placement companies based here are scam artists, scamming their own people with relative impunity. Several of my staff at work have been victims of this, before joining our company.

A lot of Burmese, and Cambodian people are lured here also and treated like animals by Thais, so maybe its karma?

Not sure about 'karma' but.....

Tuesday, May 01, 2007

Phuket welcomes tourists, but not workers, especially those from Cambodia, Laos and Burma

Tue, May 1, 2007

PHUKET: Warm welcome for tourists doesn't extend to workers

The Nation (Bangkok, Thailand)

Province imposes curfew on foreign labourers, tracks their cell phones, bans them from driving cars or motorbikes

Phuket may have acquired a global reputation for warmth and hospitality, but since late last year authorities there have imposed controls on migrant workers that are so stringent they may violate fundamental human rights.

Phuket provincial authorities now prohibit migrant workers from leaving their residence after 8pm, unless they are under the supervision of their employer.

They also keep tabs on their mobile phones and prohibit them from getting behind the wheel or driving a motorbike.

Deputy governor Worapot Ratthasima said yesterday the province had issued 10 such administrative regulations since last December 19.

They are meant to control the 32,070 migrant workers from Burma, Laos and Cambodia who have registered to work on the island since last year.

A labour shortage in Phuket has brought a flood of workers from neighbouring countries.

Another regulation prohibits employers from hiring migrant labourers who lack work permits.

Mobile-phone use is regulated to adhere to the province's security policies.

Employers were required to submit a list of their migrant workers who have mobiles, the registration numbers of the phones and the names of those who own the phones and SIM cards to the provincial authorities, Worapot said.

Phuket will soon hold a meeting for business operators, to ensure that they accurately understand the new rules controlling migrant workers, he said.

Employers will be informed that they are required to provide clean and hygienic accommodation for migrant workers, and the ratio of toilets to workers must meet Public Health Ministry rules.

Worapot warned that those who violated the new regulations would be punished under the Immigration Act of 1979.

Penalties range from a Bt500 fine to three years in jail.

Worapot said Phuket pioneered these regulations, which followed complaints from Thai residents who wanted controls on migrant workers using mobile phones, riding motorcycles and going out at night.

Eight upper-South provinces with a high number of migrant workers have followed Phuket's lead, including Chumphon, Ranong, Surat Thani and Prachuap Khiri Khan.

Migrant workers in Ranong are prohibited from leaving their residence between 10pm and 6am unless their employer gives permission or they face a health emergency, said Governor Kanchanapa Khiman.

More: http://ki-media.blogspot.com/2007/05/phuke...but-not-to.html

[meom]

There was a story about Thai prostitutes recently escaping from Bahrain in the local press only last week.

/quote]

The way I understand it is that they were actually deported because they overstayed their visa. At 1000 to 5000 baht a pop they were making good money in Bahrain and not that eager to leave.

Anyway abuses exist. Here in Saudi it's mostly housemaids that have a tough life and are mistreated. Men have it a bit better but it's true that a lot of sponsors don't give a fvk and in many cases people don't get paid on time, salaries are lower than initially promised etc.

Biggest crooks are the agents in the home countries though. We've had agents knocking our door offering to pay us usd. 2000-3000 per head plus plane ticket provided we would recruit through them.

[Johpa]

The trade in human trafficking is right there alongside of "Guns, Girls, Gambling and Ganja: Thailand's Illegal Economy and Public Policy", the title of Achaan Phasuk's book. It is part and parcel of public policy and part of the structure of the Thai economy.

Think about it. In most cultures, human trafficking involves minorities. In China, they traffick in fellow Chinese. In Thailand, the Chinese will traffick in anyone and then go on to become MPs in the local government.

By the way, I too worked for room and board and a pittance allowance on a Kibbutz in Israel back in the 1970s, before the hatred descended upon the land, doing work that is the same work now being done by imported Thai labor. But I was young and dumb and totally carefree and I had a great time and loved all the extra benefits such as nearly unlimited sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Now days I have a slightly different perspective, no longer being young, carefree, or in a position to take full advantage of the sins of life. But some might argue I am still a bit dumb.

[bodypaul]

It is nice to see that the Arabs and Jews treat people the same.... The whole of the Middle Eastern culture is awash with human rights abuses

[kratindaeng]

I have visited the middle east on numerous occasions and i have been very disturbed by what i have seen regarding the overseas workers. Most of these overseas workers that i have met have been given a 2 year contract working in the 'land of milk and honey'. They soon find out that the 2 year contract say for a factory worker will become an open ended contract working in a brothel.

The way this works is that the local Arab business owners sponsor the overseas workers for a designated period of time and pay a sponsorship fee to engage them in work in the Middle East. This is normally organised through an agent.

When the workers arrive they are taken to the factories/brothels and they have their passports taken from them until they can repay the sponsorship money to their sponsor. Of course they can never pay off the sponsorship money because of the interest charges. They have nowhere to go and no one to complain to and they are screwed without a passport.

I have seen this and i have spoken to people that are actually in this terrible position so i know that it exists. I can not believe just how hypocritical the Arab muslims can be as this goes against all of their so called beliefs.

Slavery report

If you have seen this why do you not try and do something about it? Just my 2 bahts worth...

[endure]

I have seen this and i have spoken to people that are actually in this terrible position so i know that it exists. I can not believe just how hypocritical the Arab muslims can be as this goes against all of their so called beliefs.

Are you suggesting that every 'Arab Muslim' who lives in the Middle East is guilty of keeping Thai slaves? Or are you just fond of sweeping generalisations?

[bodypaul]

If you have seen this why do you not try and do something about it? Just my 2 bahts worth...

As a foreigner there is not much one can do to allievate such situations ..... You would be kicked out "persona Non grata"

[bina]

several times i was approached to 'help' agents recruit thai workers; btw, many of the thai wives israeli men are those operating agencies, making a fortune in sending money over for a 'commission', etc... i believe the first thai came over in 1979 as some of these guys are sons of guys that worked here...

from anon's time in prison i learned from him that the chinese were the worst treated, by other chinese... they have gangs that go around and take protection money from the workers, beat and rob them and when the chinese go back to china, they cant go back to families as they have debts and the debt collectors are waiting to claim money or lives so they have to hide out. they were also the most aggressive towards the other foreign workers that were waiting deportation.

as for the sarcastic bleeding heart cmment... until u live it, u couldnt possibly believe it. im living it and im rather tired of it... my patience is wearing thin.

just found an advert for manpower company here in moshav near my home:

"Accepting Only the Best

Candidates are presented to companies for consideration only after comprehensive screening for professional and technical qualifications. The recruitment staff of 'no name company' conducts personal interviews with each applicant, verifying that the education, training and work experience match the needs of the client companies that we serve. (6000dollars in thailand and moremoeny once the thai worker arrives)

Thorough background checks are carried out to ensure that every individual is physically and emotionally healthy, as well as being free of a criminal record. References from former employers are also required to verify good work habits, honesty and good personal relationships. Only workers with clear personal histories and positive recommendations are added to our database of qualified professionals. they know how to pick tomatoes in 45 degree heat andintense humidity for 12 hour days and no breaks, for 12 shekels for 8 hours and paid once every three months

The success of 'no name company' stems from our ability to access pools of skilled employees who are highly motivated to relocate to Western countries for career advancement. We also offer personal service to selected candidates, assisting them in obtaining visas and/or channeling their earnings back to their country of origin if desired.career advancement in cleaning shit out of chicken houses w/o protective clothing, in severe heat, or working with chemicals w/o protection, or sorting apples for 12 hours standing with no breaks, and living in packing boxes or leaking caravans, five to a caravan so sleep one next to an other... well, thats career advancement allright...

italics are my comments... i didnt leave the name of the company in due to political problems (too near my home and everyone knows everyone here in agriculture)

another stat: 300 million dollars a year industry in foreign workers -- taken from the immigration administration (israel) page,today . u can go to their web site, gointo english and u will see an interesting letter that they write, to all foreign workers, in dealing with illegal aliens, among others. sorry couldnt copya nd paste it... just google their site and go for english. the rest of the reports are in hebrew and i couldnt translate them...

the price today to come to israel for a thai worker is 8000 dollars!!!!. taken from news report: 'in thailand we have 'thailandim' that work for us' by yael avri 29/4/2007... reporting on a visit by 'lek' Junya Yimprasert of Thai Labour Campaign from TLC thailand...and itamar inbari 1/5/2007 who also has an article in ynet news. the reporter was quoting 'lek' about burmese and lao migrant workers in thailand.

there are 26000 thai workers here (legally or otherwise) and there are now 3000 more on their way as of last month (when the requests for permits for agriculture are processed. therein lies the problem we fell in to. my husband got his release visa/permit but it wasnt processed in time to release him in the immigration adminsteration workers' list in the computer. therefore, his employer is stuck with him/we are stuck with the employer's permit, until he is released and a 'new' thai worker can come in place of him. we were terribly afraid he would be illegaly arrested by fake immigration officers and deported--happens alot. so i travelled by train with him to deliver him to his 'new boss' with the old boss's permit. i went four hours by train, dropped him off, turned around and came back home).

well enough info for today. not that anybody here really really cares one way or another. todays' news, tomorrows' garbage bin filler. in a world where people dont know that eggs come out of chickens' behinds and milk comes out of a cow's tits, people certainly dont know and dont want to know that some poor thai (or any nationality at that) guy is picking the apples that u buy in the store, or the flowers that are sold on the side of the road for 30 shekel a bunch!! (anon got 11 shekel an hour for stooping over flowers in the fields for hours on end; he used to bring me a bunch every friday). when he worked in mushrooms, he worked in dark, damp cool closed room (they were locked in to keep the immigration police out, and them from running away)breathing in the molds/and mildews, for 12 hours a day, until the police came, broke down the door, beat up an other thai worker (with legal visa), arrested them all, and he spent three months in jail . he also was the witness for police brutality and went to israeli court against the policeman involved.)

hows that for bleeding heart???? or does that interfere with your enjoyment of your martini and sunset in some bangkok condo?

apologies for the lenghth and amount of info...

Edited May 2, 2007 by bina

[LaoPo]

the price today to come to israel for a thai worker is 8000 dollars!!!!. taken from news report: 'in thailand we have 'thailandim' that work for us' by yael avri 29/4/2007... reporting on a visit by 'lek' Junya Yimprasert of Thai Labour Campaign from TLC thailand...and itamar inbari 1/5/2007 who also has an article in ynet news. the reporter was quoting 'lek' about burmese and lao migrant workers in thailand.

there are 26000 thai workers here (legally or otherwise) and there are now 3000 more on their way as of last month (when the requests for permits for agriculture are processed. therein lies the problem we fell in to.

Bina, I cut your post a little otherwise the post would be too long.

Reading between the lines of the Israeli hiring foreign labour force, in this case the Thai, I question myself if the problem isn't much deeper....meaning that the Israeli government created the 'system' themselves by blocking the Palestinians to work in Israel, or am I wrong ?

Apart from that I'm curious to learn why Israel or it's labour forces' agencies hire workers from so far away..?

I mean, there are numerous poor people in lots of Eastern European countries like Albania, Romania, Bulgaria, Russia and former USSR states etc. etc....or African countries ?

Or is it because Far Eastern people are more easy to be 'slaved'.....?.....reading the circumstances the Thai and other workers from nations like Philippines have to work and survive under/with....

LaoPo

[bina]

also african and also russian and eastern block countries:

africans are in house jobs; russians et al are in sex trade and building and caregivers;romanians are building; thai and nepal are agricultural; filipina are caregivers; and your summary is exactly correct. most people nowadays prefer anyone to palestinian workers (with the fear that even if it is someone u know and trust, tomorrow he might stab u in the back and it has happened unfortunately.) also, due to army blockades your palestinian workers dont always arrive. and palestian workers have to walk from the border to their home, often mny hours away, everyday and wait at the blockades for hours for the boss to pick them up for work the next day, or sleep hiding out, or they have to sneak over thruought the fences and bushwhack their way to work... either way not a good situation. most farmers i know, prefer the thai as quiet, polite, hardworking, no shenanigins (palestinians like coffee breaks, ciggy breaks and if the boss isnt watching, will disperse to chitchat, in that repect they are the same as their israeli counterparts), can deal with adverse living conditions,sleep at the job site therefore dont have to take time off to deal with wife/kids problems, make do, dont stand up for their rights and dont make problems. also, most israelis do like thais in general as they travel to thailand and see the people as exotic. they see palestinians as 'the enemy'.

i worked in apple picking and the thai are much faster, make less mistakes, dont ruin the branches, get the job done and they do most of it with some amount of 'fun' . they dont grumble and complain all the time.

too bad the articles were in hebrew cause they are informative and give a good picture of the thai labour situation in israel.

i find it difficult to locate workers who will work with me for minimum wage; those that fit (prevet students, etc) are overqualified and want more (car, perks); those that can take less, often arent the type of worker i want to work with me (and it is with, not for)... at moment i have a young guy from arab village (they dont do army so settle for less money and he probably wont be going to college) who is brilliant and joy to work with; no jewish israelis after army would be interested in that job. and pre army are kids, not suited for professioanl animal work. thai workers are professionals when it comes to dealing with animals and upkeep (they fix, feed, handle animals and equipment no problem. they dont play with their cell phones and call girlfriends and disappear every half hour or so)... this is the first year i have a non thai in this job in ten years unless anon comes back to work at the zoo. (im not thrille to work with my husband , it causes too many problems, but he fits the bill perfectly.

there are some moshavim that there are more thai workers than moshavniks!!!! ein habasor moshav down south had at one time 200!! workers. up north also. every family had at least 4-5 thao workers living on site. thats a lot of thailand in israel.!!

jsut got word from immigration that anon's permit was release in the computer and his boss knew already for three days. the (russian) lady wanted to know why i went so stubbornly by the law and didnt tell anon's original boss to take a jump. talk abut ######ed up beurocracy and screwed up people.

bina

[chanchao]

Sorry to take this into a different direction, but I always wondered WHY women are tricked into prostitution abroad.

Because if you go ask 10 random prostitutes in Thailand if they want to be prostitutes in [insert country here] and make several times their current income, then you get about 5 highly interested responses, with perhaps 1-2 actually seriously willing to go through with it.

So, what's the point of tricking a poor waitress/factory/farm girl into prostitution, a vocation that she won't be very good at, when you can get trained & qualified Thai prostitutes lining up to go. And stories (urban legends?) of being tricked into prostitution are SO common that really almost everyone will have heard of such [alleged] cases and will be wary of accepting any kind of work abroad plan.

It must happen, tricking people I mean, and for sure working conditions and remuneration may vary from what was originally promised, but what would be the point/purpose/need/reason for completely tricking a factory or farm girl into it?

Edited May 3, 2007 by chanchao

[WaiWai]

Sorry to take this into a different direction, but I always wondered WHY women are tricked into prostitution abroad.

One reason is that such women become illegal immigrants. With no friends or family to turn to in the new country & probably no ability to speak the local language, little formal education or understanding of what their rights might be if they fled, they find themselves in a situation that seems inescapable. In other words, the illegality of their presence can be used as a means of intimidation by the ... erm ... manager of the business.

P.S. Thanks to Bina for her very interesting posts.

Edited May 3, 2007 by WaiWai

[WaiWai]

I googled and found this :

What is ‘unforced’ trafficking? This is the practice that supposedly takes place to Australia. The commonest form of trafficking to Australia is of Thai women who are already engaged in prostitution in Thailand. The women are approached by agents of the Australian traffickers who arrange for their travel and meet them on arrival. They understand that their destination is prostitution. In the case of some 30-40 Thai women in Melbourne, they had to surrender their passports, were in debt bondage, had to service 500 men for no money until they had paid of the ‘debt’ of their travel and expenses, were kept behind bars in a hotel, were sold to legal and 7 illegal brothels for 15,000 dollars Australian per woman. Still only one woman was prepared to complain. Most of the women are so anxious to make some money to take home that they will not complain however harsh the conditions.

www.nswp.org/pdf/JEFFREYS-WINTER.PDF

so hardly appealing either way; "voluntary" or "tricked".

[plachon]

well enough info for today. not that anybody here really really cares one way or another. todays' news, tomorrows' garbage bin filler. in a world where people dont know that eggs come out of chickens' behinds and milk comes out of a cow's tits, people certainly dont know and dont want to know that some poor thai (or any nationality at that) guy is picking the apples that u buy in the store, or the flowers that are sold on the side of the road for 30 shekel a bunch!! (anon got 11 shekel an hour for stooping over flowers in the fields for hours on end; he used to bring me a bunch every friday). when he worked in mushrooms, he worked in dark, damp cool closed room (they were locked in to keep the immigration police out, and them from running away)breathing in the molds/and mildews, for 12 hours a day, until the police came, broke down the door, beat up an other thai worker (with legal visa), arrested them all, and he spent three months in jail . he also was the witness for police brutality and went to israeli court against the policeman involved.)

hows that for bleeding heart???? or does that interfere with your enjoyment of your martini and sunset in some bangkok condo?

apologies for the lenghth and amount of info...

That's one of the many reasons why I boycott Israeli products, especially food in the UK supermarkets. I used to carefully check "Country of Origin" (something v. easy in UK, but nigh impossible in LOS) and avoid any Israeli products like the plague, even if it was the only coriander or basil in the shop. Somehow, I doubt v. much, if any, of the profit would see its way back to the Thai or Nepali worker who grew or picked it.

And just to show I'm not only discriminating against Israel, I also refuse to buy Chinese and US products as well. Nothing personal, you understand, but would rather not support rogue nations, human rights abusers, despots and slave drivers wherever possible.

Now, back to my G&T on the verandah and that amazing Bangkok smog-set.

[mogoso]

[quote name='plachon' date='2007-05-03 condo?

And just to show I'm not only discriminating against Israel, I also refuse to buy Chinese and US products as well. Nothing personal, you understand, but would rather not support rogue nations, human rights abusers, despots and slave drivers wherever possible.

Now, back to my G&T on the verandah and that amazing Bangkok smog-set.

I can understand that attitute, I don't like buying things from Islamic countries, I do buy some but try to limit it to oil. BTW where are you from? nothing personal just wanna return the gesture.

[chanchao]

Sorry to take this into a different direction, but I always wondered WHY women are tricked into prostitution abroad.

One reason is that such women become illegal immigrants. With no friends or family to turn to in the new country & probably no ability to speak the local language, little formal education or understanding of what their rights might be if they fled, they find themselves in a situation that seems inescapable. In other words, the illegality of their presence can be used as a means of intimidation by the ... erm ... manager of the business.

That's not quite what I meant, I can understand what you're saying and fully acknowledge it happens, but wonder why the need to lie about the type of work. I.e. promise factory work or waitress work etc, but then force someone into prostitution. To me it seems that's completely unnecessary as qualified prostitutes are easily sourced for the job.

You can try this yourself: before your next trip to [some richer country], you chat with some local bar girls and mention that you wouldn't mind it if she joined you on the trip, so she can try her luck at that countries market at 10 times her current earnings. You'll advance her the airfare and she can stay in your hotel/appartment, however she's expected to pay back that airfare and anything else you provide from her earnings. Now will that take you 10 minutes or 30 minutes to find a taker..? So with that so easy, why bother with 'innocent' girls from a factory? Just means more work/hassle to get her to function properly.

A friend of mine went to Bahrain to go work as a prostitute. So I heard first hand what it was like; basically it sucked and the earnings weren't as much as she would have hoped for while the workload was heavier than expected. She also developed a real dislike for Bahrain and Arabs in general, however she DID gain the experience needed to do it on her own (without agents, loans, etc) if she would want to, so on a next trip she could actually make the money. Still she disliked the place so much that she'd rather make less, be happy in Thailand, get money sent over from her boyfriend(s) and occasionally do a trick at a bar when she feels like it. Had it not been Bahrain but a better location perhaps things would be different; for sure there's scores of Thai prostitutes working in Singapore, Hong Kong and elsewhere in the region and they don't seem to be doing so badly.

Edited May 4, 2007 by chanchao

[Ulysses G.]

That's one of the many reasons why I boycott Israeli products, especially food in the UK supermarkets. I Somehow, I doubt v. much, if any, of the profit would see its way back to the Thai or Nepali worker who grew or picked it.

And just to show I'm not only discriminating against Israel, I also refuse to buy Chinese and US products as well. Nothing personal, you understand, but would rather not support rogue nations, human rights abusers, despots and slave drivers wherever possible.

How much of the "profits" do you think that Thai workers on Thai farms make?

What a big load of steaming bull-sh*t!