14 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

 

Before addressing this above, I have to say the ideas that the TV expat brigade have on the Labour Party recent and current history are hilarious. Dianne Abbott (Who obviously gets some people worked up) is a powerless back bencher, and no longer relevant, just for one example.

 

Yes indeed the far left have been working hard to polish up the "Starmer is a Zionist" line. Clever selective editing, but utter bs. 

 

"Corbyn has spent his whole life fighting racism and social injustice."  yes yes yawn. No complaints of anti semitism before he lead the party, and masses since.  Well well must all be some Blairite plot to get at the messiah. The far left even got together their own "Report" to cover their <deleted> when they EHRC inquiry was looming. Ah.......the EHRC must be biased. 

 

JC is not an anti semite per se, I would certainly agree. Unfortunately there was no real attempt during his time in power to stem the truckloads of vile social media troll filth directed at ordinary decent Labour MPs etc who happened to be Jewish (Though not in anyway supporters of the despicable actions of the current Israeli government).

 

"But Starmer will probably split the party in the process to make them unelectable,"  The possibility of serious harm to the LP on this issue is real, but it was already there. Corbyn's continuing attempt to pretend it was all a conspiracy against him are beyond pathetic, he is splitting the party. Apart from that he made the LP unelectable, the worst election result for 80 years, who got that?

 

>>Yes indeed the far left have been working hard to polish up the "Starmer is a Zionist" line. Clever selective editing, but utter bs. 
..so what do you think Starmer, a highly successful lawyer who I am sure is quite literate, meant when he said: “I support Zionism without qualification.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-jewish-groups-say-new-labour-leader-failing-to-crack-down-on-anti-semitism/
Pretty sure the bs is with you trying to call black white.

 

>> No complaints of anti semitism before he lead the party, and masses since. 
..yes, what a very strange coincidence! Could be that at last there was a political leader prepared to criticize Israel and its 53 year old brutal illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing of indigenous Palestinians [OP]. The Israel government would have been pretty dopey not to have launched a smear campaign to undermine Corbyn's credibility. I suggest you view the "The Lobby", to see exactly how the Israeli embassy interferes in UK politics with operatives having direct links to Friends of Israel MPs.

 

 

As it was in the interests of the Conservatives to jump on Get Corbyn bandwagon too. I suggest you google anti-semitism in UK Conservative party.
Start with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Conservative_Party
and you will get hundreds more hits. No complaints from the Israeli government or Conservative Friends of Israel or the Labour Friends of Israel there. No calls for inquiries either. How very odd! When there were thousands of articles daily questioning Corbyn's track record fighting racism and anti-Semitism. And no mention of course of his 1977 defense of Jewish-populated Wood Green from a National Front rally, or the 1980s, when he headed Anti-Fascist Action and was arrested protesting apartheid in South Africa, or in June 2015, when he worked with antifascists to prevent a neo-Nazi march on Golders Green.

 

I can understand why Corbyn was upset by the OP inquiry findings, pointing the finger of anti-Semtism at him.
And I can well understand why Starmer will jump on any opportunity to stifle Corbyn and any criticism of Israel.

 

The day of shame for UK's Labor Party is Starmer's suspension of Corbyn.

15 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Starting a new party to what end? Making sure Labour remains in opposition longer? Satisfying his ego?

George Galloway has started his own party; 'The Worker's Party'.

 

Watch him sweep to victory next time round.

15 hours ago, Morch said:

 

It's a conspiracy, there there.

While it's tempting to ignore yet another attempt to hijack topics in service of your agenda, got to wonder about the 'reasoning' behind the last bit. According to your post, the conservatives (and therefore, allegedly, the 'real anti Semites') cosy up to Israel. Somehow, that's not quite what I'd expect from real anti Semites. Maybe need to check and see if they aren't fake anti Semites. Can't trust people these days.

If you were an Israeli government official, wouldn't you have done everything in your power (dirty tricks included) to undermine the credibility of a political leader (possibly next UK PM) who openly criticized Israel and championed the human rights of Palestinians.
You'd be pretty stupid not to.

 

Nothing new about anti-Semites supporting Zionism and vice versa. Netanyahu is great buddy with Hungarian leader Viktor Orban, the far-right pro-Israel prime minister of Hungary who admired Hitler ally Miklos Horthy, the man responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews. Or being joined at the hip with Trump, responsible for dozens of anti-Semitic tropes, and who said there were "very fine people on both sides" at the Charlottesville rally..does that include the ones chanting “Jews will not replace us.”?
Or UK white supremacist Tommy Robinson declaring "I am a Zionist" or American neo Nazi Richard Spencer describing himself as "a white Zionist". 

 

It is bizarre how the Israeli government can remain silent about genuine anti-Semitic white supremacists (who vote Trump), but set its attack dogs on Jeremy Corbyn. 

13 hours ago, samsensam said:

he deserves everything he gets. what's sad is he seems intent on causing disharmony within the party he has been a member of all his life. his face was a picture though!

At 72 he deserves retirement, like all other old people.

He also deserves better treatment from a party he supported all his life.

Corbyn is the Labour Party far more than any of these 'New Labour' MPs that appear to be Conservatives in disguise.

 

I want a Labour Party that supports Marxist ideals, and Corbyn gave me that, although he never went as far as I would have liked. There can be no political change without a redistribution of the land, and an end to corporate profit.

2 minutes ago, dexterm said:

If you were an Israeli government official, wouldn't you have done everything in your power (dirty tricks included) to undermine the credibility of a political leader (possibly next UK PM) who openly criticized Israel and championed the human rights of Palestinians.
You'd be pretty stupid not to.

 

Nothing new about anti-Semites supporting Zionism and vice versa. Netanyahu is great buddy with Hungarian leader Viktor Orban, the far-right pro-Israel prime minister of Hungary who admired Hitler ally Miklos Horthy, the man responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews. Or being joined at the hip with Trump, responsible for dozens of anti-Semitic tropes, and who said there were "very fine people on both sides" at the Charlottesville rally..does that include the ones chanting “Jews will not replace us.”?
Or UK white supremacist Tommy Robinson declaring "I am a Zionist" or American neo nazi Richard Spencer describing himself as "a white Zionist". 

 

It is bizarre how the Israeli government can remain silent about genuine anti-Semitic white supremacists (who vote Trump), but set his attack dogs on Jeremy Corbyn. 

 

 

As for you first paragraph - I'm not, and wouldn't know that it's 'stupid' not to do so. IMO, Corbyn wasn't going anywhere much anyway politically, so would seem a waste of energy.

 

As usual, you do your best to conflate Zionism and Israel with it's right-wing government. That right-wingers there, especially under Netanyahu, would associate with pretty much anyone (including elements such as you mention) politically supportive of their agenda does not get Corbyn off the hook. Because, you see, this is not a zero sum game. It is perfectly possible for both left and right to hold anti Semitic views or be despicable in their own way. That you try to paint right-wing oriented antisemitism as 'genuine', and imply left-wing versions otherwise is neither honest nor correct.

 

And still dodging your own nonsense - no clear explanation as to why them allegedly antisemitic conservatives would strongly ally with Israel.

 

27 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I want a Labour Party that supports Marxist ideals, and Corbyn gave me that, although he never went as far as I would have liked. There can be no political change without a redistribution of the land, and an end to corporate profit.

There can be no real political change without a redistribution of the land, returning the land to the people it was systematically stolen from down the years. The end to the H of Lords. The end to the 'Royal Family'. The end to the BBC. The end to corruption in the establishments and elites. 

Just now, owl sees all said:

There can be no real political change without a redistribution of the land, returning the land to the people it was systematically stolen from down the years. The end to the H of Lords. The end to the 'Royal Family'. The end to the BBC. The end to corruption in the establishments and elites. 

You forgot the Church, National Trust and Forestry Commission ......... all huge land owners stealing from the proletariat. 

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You forgot the Church, National Trust and Forestry Commission ......... all huge land owners stealing from the proletariat. 

Couldn't mention them all. Life's too short.

 

Tony Gosling for PM. Vernon Coleman as Health minister. Max Keiser chancellor.

An off topic post has been removed, topic is about:

 

UK Labour suspends ex-leader Corbyn on anti-Semitism 'day of shame'

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

 

As for you first paragraph - I'm not, and wouldn't know that it's 'stupid' not to do so. IMO, Corbyn wasn't going anywhere much anyway politically, so would seem a waste of energy.

 

As usual, you do your best to conflate Zionism and Israel with it's right-wing government. That right-wingers there, especially under Netanyahu, would associate with pretty much anyone (including elements such as you mention) politically supportive of their agenda does not get Corbyn off the hook. Because, you see, this is not a zero sum game. It is perfectly possible for both left and right to hold anti Semitic views or be despicable in their own way. That you try to paint right-wing oriented antisemitism as 'genuine', and imply left-wing versions otherwise is neither honest nor correct.

 

And still dodging your own nonsense - no clear explanation as to why them allegedly antisemitic conservatives would strongly ally with Israel.

 

Deflection. No point in rephrasing the point because you will side step that too, the same way you conflate anti Zionism with anti Semitism, without ever defining what Zionism is.

 

>>And still dodging your own nonsense - no clear explanation as to why them allegedly antisemitic conservatives would strongly ally with Israel.
..That's easy, genuine anti-Semites, both from the left and far right, (the mentally ill who hate Jews simply because they are Jews, same as they hate blacks, gender and sexual preferences) have more recently a greater shared irrational hatred of Muslims, who have become the new bogeymen since 911. You see it on this forum all the time. 

Bigots, ethno-nationalists and racists will jump on any anti Islamic bandwagon, because they admire Israel's fascist way of dealing with Palestinians..ethnically cleanse them and persecute them. That's why you get white supremacists like Tommy Robinson and Richard Spencer applauding Zionism. Peas in the same pod.
 
In addition among the British upper classes (Conservatives with a Big C) there has always been an irrational scapegoat dislike of Jews from Medieval pogroms through to members of the aristocracy/royalty even supporting Hitler.

 

Please don't spin my words. I am not implying that genuine left wing anti-Semitism is any less despicable. But in the case of Corbyn, his defense of Palestinian rights and his anti the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism has been deliberately and disingenuously confused with anti-Semitism. Zionists orchestrated a smear campaign against him because he was an important pro Palestinian voice.

 

And that is exactly why the self professed Zionist Starmer is trying to silence Jeremy Corbyn  too.

So does antisemitic mean that you are a rabid irrational hater of Jews? Or does it mean you have simply criticized some Israeli policy or action? The former is problematic but the latter just a political opinion.

6 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Bigots, ethno-nationalists and racists will jump on any anti Islamic bandwagon, because they admire Israel's fascist way of dealing with Palestinians..ethnically cleanse them and persecute them. That's why you get white supremacists like Tommy Robinson and Richard Spencer applauding Zionism. Peas in the same pod.

I don't really care about Jews one way or the other, and don't know anyone in the UK (who wasn't Jewish) who even gave them a thought.

My first gf was Jewish, I used to get to take the sheet off the table of food on a Saturday evening, and switch the lights off and on ..... not a problem. Walking home in the early hours of a date on a Saturday morning was a bit of a chore.

One of my work mates was Jewish, carrying him around on a chair at his wedding was a bit of a laugh, didn't think much of it at the time.

 

There's always a few looneys that make a big thing of it, but most Brits are more concerned with the Somali and Syrian refugees arriving in dinghy's on the south coast. 

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I don't really care about Jews one way or the other, and don't know anyone in the UK (who wasn't Jewish) who even gave them a thought.

My first gf was Jewish, I used to get to take the sheet off the table of food on a Saturday evening, and switch the lights off and on ..... not a problem. Walking home in the early hours of a date on a Saturday morning was a bit of a chore.

One of my work mates was Jewish, carrying him around on a chair at his wedding was a bit of a laugh, didn't think much of it at the time.

 

There's always a few loonyes that make a big thing of it, but most Brits are more concerned with the Somali and Syrian refugees arriving in dinghy's on the south coast. 

Don't rationalize and cherry pick your bigotry with the cliche : Some of my best friends are Jewish. Therefore I can't be a racist.

 

Corbyn is anti racist in every way. He has been deliberately targeted because of his defense of human rights...rights that poodle Starmer and his cronies want to undermine.

Just now, dexterm said:

Don't rationalize and cherry pick your bigotry with the cliche : Some of my best friends are Jewish.

 

Corbyn is anti racist in every way. He has been deliberately targeted because of his defense of human rights...rights that poodle Starmer and his cronies want to undermine.

Yes, I agree, I fully support Corbyn.

None of my best friends were Jewish, how does that make me a bigot.

6 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Don't rationalize and cherry pick your bigotry with the cliche : Some of my best friends are Jewish. Therefore I can't be a racist.

 

Corbyn is anti racist in every way. He has been deliberately targeted because of his defense of human rights...rights that poodle Starmer and his cronies want to undermine.

 

   The Left have a long history of Anti-Israel/Semitism .

They use the Israeli/Palestinian situation for further their Anti-sematic cause , like *I don't hate Jews, I just dont like them having their own Country *

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

Deflection. No point in rephrasing the point because you will side step that too, the same way you conflate anti Zionism with anti Semitism, without ever defining what Zionism is.

 

>>And still dodging your own nonsense - no clear explanation as to why them allegedly antisemitic conservatives would strongly ally with Israel.
..That's easy, genuine anti-Semites, both from the left and far right, (the mentally ill who hate Jews simply because they are Jews, same as they hate blacks, gender and sexual preferences) have more recently a greater shared irrational hatred of Muslims, who have become the new bogeymen since 911. You see it on this forum all the time. 

Bigots, ethno-nationalists and racists will jump on any anti Islamic bandwagon, because they admire Israel's fascist way of dealing with Palestinians..ethnically cleanse them and persecute them. That's why you get white supremacists like Tommy Robinson and Richard Spencer applauding Zionism. Peas in the same pod.
 
In addition among the British upper classes (Conservatives with a Big C) there has always been an irrational scapegoat dislike of Jews from Medieval pogroms through to members of the aristocracy/royalty even supporting Hitler.

 

Please don't spin my words. I am not implying that genuine left wing anti-Semitism is any less despicable. But in the case of Corbyn, his defense of Palestinian rights and his anti the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism has been deliberately and disingenuously confused with anti-Semitism. Zionists orchestrated a smear campaign against him because he was an important pro Palestinian voice.

 

And that is exactly why the self professed Zionist Starmer is trying to silence Jeremy Corbyn  too.

 

I did not 'conflate anti Zionism with anti Semitism'. Didn't make an appearance on my posts in this topic even. You're making things up. That you refuse to acknowledge that there are many instances in which both 'anti's converge, though,  is nothing new. Unless you missed it the topic is not about Zionism, regardless of your ongoing hijack attempts.

 

As for the rest of your post - I could be wrong, but it would seem that you imagine that if someone is racist, bigoted or prejudiced against one group, he holds the similar views towards many other groups. I've no idea that this is a fact, or yet again a construct you dreamed up.

 

Kinda doubt conservatives (as in politicians and government) are clearly as anti-Muslim as you claim - at least not when it comes to foreign relations, trade and these sort of things. Domestic issues are a different kettle of fish.

 

Posting opinion in bold does not make them facts. Moreover, even if this was the case, it would not get much traction unless there was something to it. As you routinely refuse to accept relevant instances for what they are, and claim it's all a 'smear campaign', there's little room for discussion. Like it or not, there was a surge of antisemitic sentiment within the LP during Corbyn's reign, with many of these instances associated with his supporters. Corbyn did little about this. Spin away.

1 hour ago, Rancid said:

So does antisemitic mean that you are a rabid irrational hater of Jews? Or does it mean you have simply criticized some Israeli policy or action? The former is problematic but the latter just a political opinion.

 

Criticizing the policies of the Israeli government is not an issue. The reasoning, rhetoric, terminology and scope of such criticism might be. There are instances where the two converge.