Walmart pulls firearms, ammunition from U.S. store floors as civil unrest flares

[J Town]

My son in Washington State had a difficult time buying a pistol about a month ago as they're getting all bought up, and the prices of the weapon and ammo have skyrocketed. If I was a betting man, I'd say it's more than likely a civil war is coming. Many security experts have warned the next 100 days are gonna get real ugly back in the states.

[Pattaya Spotter]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Wouldn't make much difference if you could. ARs and other long guns are used in very very few crimes and murders. The real killers are handguns.  That's why I laugh at all the fuss about banning "assault weapons" (whatever they are).  More people in the US are stabbed to death than killed with rifles.

Yep...pretty hard to hide a long-gun when your pants are riding below your butt.

[Pattaya Spotter]

8 minutes ago, J Town said:

If I was a betting man, I'd say it's more than likely a civil war is coming.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree...there's a lot of unfinished business from the last one; but I'd say maybe in 10-20 years because it takes time for everything to come to a head. If true federalism were respected, however, a complete break could be avoided.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[onebir]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Wouldn't make much difference if you could. ARs and other long guns are used in very very few crimes and murders. The real killers are handguns.  That's why I laugh at all the fuss about banning "assault weapons" (whatever they are).  More people in the US are stabbed to death than killed with rifles.

It was a reference to the difference between US & UK gun laws/culture... not any particular detail of the former. (I think it's fair to say 'we brits' don't for the most part care much, or know much about guns.)

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, onebir said:

It was a reference to the difference between US & UK gun laws/culture... not any particular detail of the former. (I think it's fair to say 'we brits' don't for the most part care much, or know much about guns.)

...and long may it last....who the hell 'needs' a gun...very few.

 

Japan got it right....found with a gun, part of a gun, ammunition for a gun....10 years...bye.

[Grumpy John]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Yep...pretty hard to hide a long-gun when your pants are riding below your butt.

I think some people talk about firearms like their experts but the reality is they wouldn't know the dangerous end from the safe end.  And firearms training in Stralia is for some taught by your dad and if you get something wrong you get a stern warning not to do it again...but do it twice and you some serious verbal abuse!  

[J Town]

Just now, Pattaya Spotter said:

I wouldn't necessarily disagree...there's a lot of unfinished business from the last one...but I'd say maybe in 10-20 years because it takes times for everything to come to a head.

And I'd say the time is now. The last four years has emboldened the people who traded a white hood for a red ballcap. Folks from either party are broke, desperate and facing evictions nationwide. Early voting indicates a solid Biden win and I've seen plenty of interviews of those red ballcap folks who said they will take to the streets, weapons in hand, should that happen because 45 has told them repeatedly if Biden wins it will be a sham. I hope we're both wrong and an actual civil war never comes about. The next hundred days will tell for this election cycle, and may it pass quickly!

[Pattaya Spotter]

Just now, J Town said:

And I'd say the time is now. The last four years has emboldened the people who traded a white hood for a red ballcap. Folks from either party are broke, desperate and facing evictions nationwide. Early voting indicates a solid Biden win and I've seen plenty of interviews of those red ballcap folks who said they will take to the streets, weapons in hand, should that happen because 45 has told them repeatedly if Biden wins it will be a sham. I hope we're both wrong and an actual civil war never comes about. The next hundred days will tell for this election cycle, and may it pass quickly!

There will be legal resistance to a Harris Presidency (opps Biden Administration) in Congress, the courts, and the streets by Republicans just as the Democrats have done throughout Trump's presidency. Longer term, however, I feel two very different America's are solidifying, with different conceptions of the nation they want to live in and be a part of. Like I said, if federalism is truly respected, and the states re-assert their jurisdiction over the federal government and take back their legitimate powers to govern themselves, violence and a break-up can be avoided. If not, i fear the worst.

[from the home of CC]

just following the advice of their legal team imo..

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, rabas said:

 

"gun stolen unlocked car"      27 results      8 million with no quotes

"criminals buy illegal guns"  162 results,   106 million with no quotes

 

Absolutely,  one should never leave a gun in an unlocked car or even in sight.

 

And a poster should research his point before leaving it in a public view!

I did not state that guns stolen from unlocked cars are the only source of illegal weapons in criminal hands. However I will state that many of the links that result from "guns stolen unlocked cars" link to news sources summarizing many cases of many guns easily stolen from unlocked vehicles.  One also must wonder how many times this happened without the gun owner reporting his/her own stupidity.

 

More important, you missed my obvious point that stupid (untrained and unqualified) people should not own guns.  I own guns, I also still remember, from many years ago, my small arms training from an NCO who made it very clear that he would shoot anyone of us who handled our weapons in a dangerously irresponsible manner.  It drove home the point that handling a weapon is a very serious responsibility.

 

I support the right of responsible, properly trained citizens to own self defense and hunting weapons.  I object to the ease with which anyone, including irresponsible idiots, can obtain guns.  I think minimum standards should be required by law.  Don't you agree?

[J Town]

18 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

...and long may it last....who the hell 'needs' a gun...very few.

 

Japan got it right....found with a gun, part of a gun, ammunition for a gun....10 years...bye.

And therein lies the rub. The US mindset is very different. From the onset, they were in a revolt against the British rule. Personal freedom and self reliance was strong - the rugged individualists. Weapons were a necessary tool for survival.

 

Fast forward to the 21st century. Farmers, hunters and law enforcement need weapons, but the carryover from several hundred years of history is difficult to shake. Add the despicable NRA and their lobbyists lining the coffers of purchased politicians and you won't see these laws changing in our lifetimes.

 

I particularly enjoyed Bernie Sanders' view on the matter. He said people in Vermont have very different circumstances than those in California, and gun laws should be left up to the individual states.

Edited October 30, 2020 by J Town

[heybruce]

Just now, heybruce said:

I did not state that guns stolen from unlocked cars are the only source of illegal weapons in criminal hands. However I point out that many of the links that result from "guns stolen unlocked cars" link to news sources summarizing many cases of many guns easily stolen from unlocked vehicles.  One also must wonder how many times this happened without the gun owner reporting his/her own stupidity.

 

More important, you missed my obvious point that stupid (untrained and unqualified) people should not own guns.  I own guns, I also still remember, from many years ago, my small arms training from an NCO who made it very clear that he would shoot anyone of us who handled our weapons in a dangerously irresponsible manner.  It drove home the point that handling a weapon is a very serious responsibility.

 

I support the right of responsible, properly trained citizens to own self defense and hunting weapons.  I object to the ease with which anyone, including irresponsible idiots, can obtain guns.  I think minimum standards should be required by law.  Don't you agree?

 

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

Then the problem seems to be how enforce the gun laws to prevent criminals from buying guns.

Here's one suggestion:  Don't make it so easy to legally buy guns that any idiot with a few days of minimum wage pay can buy a weapon many times more lethal than what was available (at much greater cost) when the 2nd Amendment was written.

[polpott]

2 minutes ago, J Town said:

Fast forward to the 21st century. Farmers, hunters and law enforcement need weapons, but the carryover from several hundred years of history is difficult to shake.

555 You haven't got several hundred years of history.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Criminals will get guns. Simple, sad fact. So, what to do about it?

 

I propose a mandatory extra 10-20 year add-on to any criminal conviction which involved a firearm. Not up for negotiation, plea bargain, or time off for good behavior.  

 

I don't own a gun, don't want to either. But I understand how many Americans feel about them.  It is a culture that many of us didn't grow up in. I was a bit of a country boy back in the day, but my exposure to firearms was limited to my grandfather's 22 calibre single shot rifle that we used to plink tin cans off my cousin's back fence.  Then I carried a 'real' rifle in the military, after that I kind of lost interest. 

Here are few more suggestions:

 

Make penalties for carrying a gun under the influence of alcohol or drugs as severe as penalties for driving under the influence.

 

Make it a felony to improperly secure a dangerous weapon when not in use.

 

Make the excuse "I didn't think it was loaded" an admission of criminal negligence when used after an 'accidental' shooting.

 

Most important, aggressively enforce these laws.  I'm sure that laws that have the same effect as the above are in place in most states, but rarely enforced.

[heybruce]

26 minutes ago, Grumpy John said:

I think a lot of the gun transactions are from other criminals...but there must be a good number using stolen ID.  And of course criminals steal guns...in robberies and such.  When I was a kid...in Stralia, was not unusual to see guys with a rifle slung over their back bicycling out to hunt rabbits.  Dad had a gun rack in the old (not then!) FJ ute with a .22 Brno almost permanently in place.  Sometimes his .303.  For crow control in lambing season he had a .222 Winchester Model 70.  He would cycle out to the lambing paddock before sun-up with a hide...bit like the material used in a Ghillie suit but throw over like a blanket.  He would remain in the one place all day, some days, and on others until the crows departed!  Still lost some lambs.  The crows favourite meal was to pick out the young lambs eyes...if he wasn't there.

An obvious reason to not insist on a "one rule fits all" approach to gun control is that the needs in a crowded city are different from those in the country.

 

Does anyone living in a city apartment need a .303?  Do they need a semi-automatic assault rifle?

[polpott]

24 minutes ago, onebir said:

It was a reference to the difference between US & UK gun laws/culture... not any particular detail of the former. (I think it's fair to say 'we brits' don't for the most part care much, or know much about guns.)

Or want to know much. We're adults.

[heybruce]

23 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

That's one way to do it...but sometimes it's not enough...like in 1776 and 1861. It's best to be ready for all contingencies. You know what one gun owner said to another:

 

"I'm down to a thousand rounds..."

 

"You're running low."

Let's stick to living memory, after tanks, artillery, machine guns, air power, ICBM's, etc. became the deciding factors in wars.

 

Since the end of the cold war, can you think of any time in any democratic country when armed civilians defended against tyranny?

 

As I recall 2014, armed civilians were one of the excuses for a coup against an elected government and the imposition of a military....

 

I assume we still aren't allowed to use the D-word.

[Eric Loh]

8 minutes ago, J Town said:

And therein lies the rub. The US mindset is very different. From the onset, they were in a revolt against the British rule. Personal freedom and self reliance was strong - the rugged individualists. Weapons were a necessary tool for survival.

 

Fast forward to the 21st century. Farmers, hunters and law enforcement need weapons, but the carryover from several hundred years of history is difficult to shake. Add the despicable NRA and their lobbyists lining the coffers of purchased politicians and you won't see these laws changing in our lifetimes.

 

I particularly enjoyed Bernie Sanders' view on the matter. He said people in Vermont have very different circumstances than those in California, and gun laws should be left up to the individual states.

Another antiquated amendment to the constitution of the past that ought to be changed together with the electoral college. 

[J Town]

7 minutes ago, polpott said:

555 You haven't got several hundred years of history.

I believe your math is weak. Think about it. Or don't.

[Sujo]

13 minutes ago, J Town said:

And therein lies the rub. The US mindset is very different. From the onset, they were in a revolt against the British rule. Personal freedom and self reliance was strong - the rugged individualists. Weapons were a necessary tool for survival.

 

Fast forward to the 21st century. Farmers, hunters and law enforcement need weapons, but the carryover from several hundred years of history is difficult to shake. Add the despicable NRA and their lobbyists lining the coffers of purchased politicians and you won't see these laws changing in our lifetimes.

 

I particularly enjoyed Bernie Sanders' view on the matter. He said people in Vermont have very different circumstances than those in California, and gun laws should be left up to the individual states.

That only works if people are not permitted to buy in other states and take the weapons home. If caught then mandatory jail.

[ChrisY1]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

It used to weigh 9 pounds and 10 ounces without a full magazine as anybody who has slow marched the length of the parade ground with one on his shoulder. A few trips on the parade ground non stop and you will swear that it weighs about 50 pounds in weight.

We had these rifles in the High School cadets in Sydney in the sixties....they were heavy for 15 year olds to cart around on camps....but a great rifle and one which I almost got my crossed rifle award with....200..400 and 600 yards... I think.

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Same in Canada.  Go to a hardware store/home center and you can buy a shotgun or rifle, ammo, whatever, as long as you have the correct licensing. They're just guns, man.  

yea, right

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

That's one way to do it...

Really? I would call that the coward's way but I guess you would have to find that acceptable being a trump supporter.

[Pattaya Spotter]

37 minutes ago, heybruce said:

An obvious reason to not insist on a "one rule fits all" approach to gun control is that the needs in a crowded city are different from those in the country.

 

Does anyone living in a city apartment need a .303?  Do they need a semi-automatic assault rifle?

Where do you think most of the home invasion robberies, rapes, and murders happen...hint...it's not the country.

[bunnydrops]

I shot my first gun at 6. My dad was  Navy shore patrol. Man targets in the basement. He showed me how to dissemble and blue. I had my first rifle at 11. At that time I could walk down town with the rifle and go into the hardware store and buy bullets. Back then, the gun was a tool to shot some rabbits or tin cans. Now, the people I talk to seem to have raised guns as some status symbol. 

I haven't had a gun in years, don't need one. The last one I saw was two boys coming out of a gun show with a Glock. A little big for rabbits or cans

EDIT I have to take that back, the last was a Mexican military holding a rifle against my head--- How could I forget:)

Edited October 30, 2020 by bunnydrops
addition

[Pattaya Spotter]

8 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Really? I would call that the coward's way but I guess you would have to find that acceptable being a trump supporter.

The people who took up arms in the Revolutionary War and to preserve the Union were cowards...if you say so.

[Pattaya Spotter]

3 minutes ago, bunnydrops said:

I shot my first gun at 6. My dad was  Navy shore patrol. Man targets in the basement. He showed me how to dissemble and blue. I had my first rifle at 11. At that time I could walk down town with the rifle and go into the hardware store and buy bullets. Back then, the gun was a tool to shot some rabbits or tin cans. Now, the people I talk to seem to have raised guns as some status symbol. 

I haven't had a gun in years, don't need one. The last one I saw was two boys coming out of a gun show with a Glock. A little big for rabbits or cans

Not many killer rabbits or cans out there...many killer people, however, which Glocks are good protection against.

[bunnydrops]

11 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Where do you think most of the home invasion robberies, rapes, and murders happen...hint...it's not the country.

I wonder what the percentage is per population between city and country?

[bunnydrops]

8 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Not many killer rabbits or cans out there...many killer people, however, which Glocks are good protection against.

You didn't see Monty Python and the Holy Grail!!!!