9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I hope no American will ever criticize democratic elections in any other country again.

It's a shame how openly the Republican party members try to prevent people from voting.

The virus situation is known since many months. Being not prepared just doesn't count.

In a real democracy every voter should be able to vote the way they want. They can vote for the DEMs or GOP or whatever, it's up to the voter. Voter suppression, especially in some districts with a majority from they "others" should be a crime and the people who suppress voters should go to jail.

Idle hope.

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Joe Biden didn't want to tell anybody about the Supreme Court till after the election. Said voters didn't have the right to know!

 

Wait and see how he, Harris and Pelosi deal with the Courts and verdicts they don't like should the Democrats win, retain the Congress and win the Senate. 

 

If you think they are more honest and transparent then good luck with that! 

I think he'll wait for the Supreme Court to hang itself. As I'm sure you know, the Supreme Court majority claim to be originalists. Among other things, they believe that the Court shouldn't intervene just because something is wrong if it's a matter that is properly in the scope of by the Houses of Congress. But they made a big exception for the Voting Rights Act. Antonin Scalia specifically said that the conservative majority had to intervene because politics made it impossible for the legislature to act. The result: Southern states started acting in a discriminatory way to disenfranchise black voters. Just what the Court said wouldn't happen. But it sure hurt the Democrats. So we'll see.

So it's really comical to see Trump attacking the Court whose decisions have been so favorable for him and played a key role in getting him elected.

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Your comments are characterized by both sidesism. The fact is that it's the Republican party which has repeatedly tried to limit access to voting. In this case they waited until votes were cast to challenge the process rather than do so beforehand.

 

It was the Democrats who refused to respect the last election result, acted like spoilt children and have done everything they could think of to try and discredit and end Trump's presidency early.

 

Now at election time the Republicans seem to be trying to limit the access to voting. Surely, they should have made challenges to processes way before the election.  

 

The Democrats also tried to challenge the Electoral College process, after Hilary lost, by repeated reference to her winning the popular vote. If they want to propose changes it should be before not after elections and certainly not retrospective. 

 

Which supports the point I was making. Politicians, of both sides of the spectrum in Western democracies, aren't public minded servants, honorable and ethical, seeking to serve their electorates anymore. They are addicted to power, want to rule and many seem to enrich themselves too. 

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It was the Democrats who refused to respect the last election result, acted like spoilt children and have done everything they could think of to try and discredit and end Trump's presidency early.

 

Now at election time the Republicans seem to be trying to limit the access to voting. Surely, they should have made challenges to processes way before the election.  

 

The Democrats also tried to challenge the Electoral College process, after Hilary lost, by repeated reference to her winning the popular vote. If they want to propose changes it should be before not after elections and certainly not retrospective. 

 

Which supports the point I was making. Politicians, of both sides of the spectrum in Western democracies, aren't public minded servants, honorable and ethical, seeking to serve their electorates anymore. They are addicted to power, want to rule and many seem to enrich themselves too. 

Nonsense, the result was respected. It was Trump who discredited himself.

Yes, and not just at election time, they're using all means they can find.

No, the EC process wasn't challenged, but imo it should change.

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I think he'll wait for the Supreme Court to hang itself. As I'm sure you know, the Supreme Court majority claim to be originalists. Among other things, they believe that the Court shouldn't intervene just because something is wrong if it's a matter that is properly in the scope of by the Houses of Congress. But they made a big exception for the Voting Rights Act. Antonin Scalia specifically said that the conservative majority had to intervene because politics made it impossible for the legislature to act. The result: Southern states started acting in a discriminatory way to disenfranchise black voters. Just what the Court said wouldn't happen. But it sure hurt the Democrats. So we'll see.

So it's really comical to see Trump attacking the Court whose decisions have been so favorable for him and played a key role in getting him elected.

 

Interesting to see how it pans out.

 

Trump seems to support anyone who does what he says, says what he wants, and never ever goes against him in the slightest way. Or he fires them or slags them off on Twitter. He's a friend one minute but always has a knife ready for the stab in the back! He runs the US like his former TV show in some respects!

 

The UK are also seeing courts and legal experts getting frustrated by politicians, who despite what they think, aren't above the law, constitution and due process.

 

To survive 47 years in elected office, Biden must a very clever and competent politician who knows when to move and when not to. It will be interesting to see how he handles this and factions in his own party should he succeed. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Nonsense, the result was respected. It was Trump who discredited himself.

Yes, and not just at election time, they're using all means they can find.

No, the EC process wasn't challenged, but imo it should change.

 

Utter nonsense. Did you miss the Speaker of the House tearing up the President's speech on TV? Do you think there was any real substance in the determined attempts to "get Trump out for something" no matter how creative? Did you miss all that?

 

Just as right wing media post fake or heavily embellished news, so does the left wing equivalents. 

 

Why do you think the BBC describe this as a most divisive election?

 

 

Russia can stand down. The GOP is interfering with election results all on its own.

In Texas and Ohio, Republican officials reduced the number of ballot drop boxes, particularly affecting densely populated counties more likely to vote Democratic. In South Carolina and Oklahoma, GOP leaders fought to require witness signatures or even notaries for absentee ballots, despite a pandemic that makes such requirements dangerous. In Michigan, they supported a suit to allow open carry of firearms at the polls, despite the obvious potential for intimidation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/russia-can-stand-down-the-gop-is-interfering-with-election-results-all-on-its-own/2020/11/02/c175c6d8-1d42-11eb-b532-05c751cd5dc2_story.html

The author goes on to list that the Trump administration tried to hurt postal service. They want ballots delivered late because of postal service delays to be disqualified.

 

My party is destroying itself on the altar of Trump

The Trump campaign and Republican entities engaged in more than 40 voting and ballot court cases around the country this year. In exactly none — zero — are they trying to make it easier for citizens to vote. In many, they are seeking to erect barriers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/01/ben-ginsberg-voter-suppression-republicans/

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Utter nonsense. Did you miss the Speaker of the House tearing up the President's speech on TV? Do you think there was any real substance in the determined attempts to "get Trump out for something" no matter how creative? Did you miss all that?

 

Just as right wing media post fake or heavily embellished news, so does the left wing equivalents. 

 

Why do you think the BBC describe this as a most divisive election?

More both sidesism. Comparing any other US politician's behavior  to the disgraceful behavior of Trump is just that. How many incidents of such behavior can you find for Nancy Pelosi? Are they daily occurrences? Multiple daily occurences? You may have  become so inured to his awfulness that you don't realize how false it is to compare others' conduct to his.

20 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Utter nonsense. Did you miss the Speaker of the House tearing up the President's speech on TV? Do you think there was any real substance in the determined attempts to "get Trump out for something" no matter how creative? Did you miss all that?

 

Just as right wing media post fake or heavily embellished news, so does the left wing equivalents. 

 

Why do you think the BBC describe this as a most divisive election?

 

 

Your attempts to blame Democrats for Trump's failures is laughable.

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Utter nonsense. Did you miss the Speaker of the House tearing up the President's speech on TV? Do you think there was any real substance in the determined attempts to "get Trump out for something" no matter how creative? Did you miss all that?

 

Just as right wing media post fake or heavily embellished news, so does the left wing equivalents. 

 

Why do you think the BBC describe this as a most divisive election?

 

 

Tearing up a speech, even if you do not like it and it makes you mad, is not impeding the process and trying to suppress votes, you need to be able to distinguish between voicing an opinion (tearing up a speech does not infringe on anybody's rights as an American citizen) and actually trying to suppress a person's right to vote. The republicans have taken it too far and they look incredibly bad doing it as well. The voting in a car challenge should have happened around labor day at the latest , not two days before the election....it reeks of what it is....trying to get democrats votes disqualified and not give them enough time to recast their votes.