Sin Sod For Gays? Mate Price.

[cm-happy]

Have any gay guys here ever paid sin sod to your mates family. sin sod. as I understand it, is like a bride price paid by the groom to the brides family. Seems to be a somewhat common practice in the countryside. But I guess it could also apply if the partner is the groom instead of the other way around.

Just wondering if this is a Thai custom exclusive to the straight community or does it also sometimes apply to the gay community?

[ProThaiExpat]

After five years with the same guy, I think my "paying" days are over. I did buy mom a reasonable priced house in her village to give her "face" and and nice place to live and she now has our cast off Soluna. Add it all up, and call it what you want, I call it sin sod, "helping less fortunate family of love interest to live better and have more face in exchange for exclusive relationship with offspring". There is the element of taking away his mom's main bread winner to live in another city and reimbursing parents for cost of raising the love interest, which is a basic concept of sin sod.

I don't think who does what to whom has anything to do with the more fortunate helping the less fortunate. Now that his mom is the "queen" of her village, nothing but good things come forth from that area. Mate's new business in village is thriving and entire family has gained much face.

[FranklyNoMore]

After five years with the same guy, I think my "paying" days are over. I did buy mom a reasonable priced house in her village to give her "face" and and nice place to live and she now has our cast off Soluna. Add it all up, and call it what you want, I call it sin sod, "helping less fortunate family of love interest to live better and have more face in exchange for exclusive relationship with offspring". There is the element of taking away his mom's main bread winner to live in another city and reimbursing parents for cost of raising the love interest, which is a basic concept of sin sod.I don't think who does what to whom has anything to do with the more fortunate helping the less fortunate. Now that his mom is the "queen" of her village, nothing but good things come forth from that area. Mate's new business in village is thriving and entire family has gained much face.

Sin sod is bad enough for straights to have to pay but for gays is just plain daft and laughable.

Paying for things for someone to show off is just as disgusting imho.

Helping them out is one thing but doing it so they can show off is shameful. How buddhist is that

[popshirt]

Sin sod is bad enough for straights to have to pay but for gays is just plain daft and laughable.

Paying for things for someone to show off is just as disgusting imho.

Helping them out is one thing but doing it so they can show off is shameful. How buddhist is that

You have much to learn about Thai culture and customs, especially regarding "face" in rural Thailand. This has nothing to do with buddhism.

[PeaceBlondie]

But, what if the farang is considered the bride? Does the Thai family pay sin sod, or it just sod all sin?

Okay, in all seriousness, in our four years together, perhaps some of 'our money' has leaked over to his family. They ride better motorcycles, live in better homes. But then, they're all over 30, they all work, I get free haircuts, we share things, we all indirectly support Mama, who no longer is a squatter and has a proper home.

[ProThaiExpat]

PS. My last post: I should have included a line about expecting the "usual suspects" to post that they have never paid a dime to their wife"s or g/f's family and never would and that anyone that does must be bonkers.

[farang prince]

PS. My last post: I should have included a line about expecting the "usual suspects" to post that they have never paid a dime to their wife"s or g/f's family and never would and that anyone that does must be bonkers.

Yes, they obviously have not been in a long-term relationship with a Thai. Sin sod is not just a lump sum payment...it is something that is ongoing over the course of the relationship...a little here, a little there. But this sort of thing happens in most cultures, where someone in the family is better off than the other family members. It just is more of an understood and accepted practice here. It certainly is not going to drive me to the poor house.

[sfokevin]

The advent of social security and retirement systems has changed the social contract and obligations we in the west feel required to pay to our parents and family... We should remember that this is not the case in Thailand... I am fully aware of my partners life long obligation to provide for his parents and as his partner see it as our joint obligation... Just like it is my partner obligation to return home with me to Iowa every Christmas and eat my crazy mothers turkey dinner...

[ajarnmark]

PS. My last post: I should have included a line about expecting the "usual suspects" to post that they have never paid a dime to their wife"s or g/f's family and never would and that anyone that does must be bonkers.

Yes, they obviously have not been in a long-term relationship with a Thai. Yes I have been Sin sod is not just a lump sum payment...it is something that is ongoing over the course of the relationship...a little here, a little there. But this sort of thing happens in most cultures, where someone in the family is better off than the other family members. It just is more of an understood and accepted practice here. It certainly is not going to drive me to the poor house.

Sin Sod may be a rural thing but not at least in Bangkok. I am sure at least in case of educated families.

[sbk]

Sin sod, is, in my experience, only paid when there is an actual formal wedding. I have never seen a gay person have a wedding where I live, I don't know if it happens in Bangkok, just that it doesn't happen where I live.

So, in a word, no, as far as Thai customs go, no wedding, no sin sod. I have never heard of a Thai man paying sin sod to a Thai woman when there was no wedding.

[farang prince]

Sin sod, is, in my experience, only paid when there is an actual formal wedding. I have never seen a gay person have a wedding where I live, I don't know if it happens in Bangkok, just that it doesn't happen where I live.

So, in a word, no, as far as Thai customs go, no wedding, no sin sod. I have never heard of a Thai man paying sin sod to a Thai woman when there was no wedding.

You can call it what you want. There are no gay weddings in Thailand but when you set up house with a same-sex partner, your wallet is going to get a workout. Like I said earlier, it will be a little here and a little there...someone in the family needs emergency medical care...the car or motorbike broke down...sister is graduating from university...Mom has a 50th birthday...the washer or drier needs replacing...etc. etc. etc. If that isn't happening in your relationship, then consider yourself lucky. My ladyboy comes from a great family, but that doesn't mean that her farang husband isn't the richest guy in the family unit. I accept this and am treated with great respect by all family members. But if I didn't have a "good heart" and plenty of money in the bank, I would no doubt be considered a cheap farang ######.

Edited May 5, 2007 by farang prince

[peter991]

A gay wedding in Thailand may not have legal status - but they do happen in Thailand. My Thai BF and I were 'married' in an Issan village ceremony in August 2005. It was very similar to a straight wedding - with all the trimmings.

There was no sin sod paid as such - but like other posted have stated - it's an on-going thing. My Thai's parents gave us the land at the back of their house so we could build a house of our own. Their house has been upgraded. Mamma is not in the best of health and she is well looked after.

Peter

[FranklyNoMore]

Sin sod is bad enough for straights to have to pay but for gays is just plain daft and laughable.

Paying for things for someone to show off is just as disgusting imho.

Helping them out is one thing but doing it so they can show off is shameful. How buddhist is that

You have much to learn about Thai culture and customs, especially regarding "face" in rural Thailand. This has nothing to do with buddhism.

So by not agreeing with a custom you say I have much to learn about it. I simply don't agree with it.

One can understand something without agreeing with it, don't you think?

I don't think Buddha taught his followers to buy things in order to show them off. To me it's a very vulgar act. The need for "face" is a sign of insecurity. The fact you need some materialistic object to feel

good about yourself is sad indeed.

Those who feel the need to help boost the "face value" of their relatives are sad too.

Helping out is onething, doing it for face is another.

[PeaceBlondie]

As other gay men have pointed out, it's not about paying one big lump sum at a ceremony, or about showing off. It's becoming a member of the extended family, of being accepted into that family, and of 'paying your dues' to the family. I've gone to family dinners that didn't cost me anything (except the bottle of diet cola that we brought), and sat there for hours without saying or understanding much. I'm not rich back home, but I'm a rich man here, and I'd have a black heart if I didn't let the 'sisters-in-law' share the big outdoor, covered kitchen and dining area at the home that I rent. Those sisters visited me when I was in the hospital. It's an honor to be a member of a Thai family. I'm paying for my own family to have a reunion in Ireland in a few weeks, for a wedding. Am I obligated to give the bride and groom a nice present? Yup.

[farang prince]

As other gay men have pointed out, it's not about paying one big lump sum at a ceremony, or about showing off. It's becoming a member of the extended family, of being accepted into that family, and of 'paying your dues' to the family. I've gone to family dinners that didn't cost me anything (except the bottle of diet cola that we brought), and sat there for hours without saying or understanding much. I'm not rich back home, but I'm a rich man here, and I'd have a black heart if I didn't let the 'sisters-in-law' share the big outdoor, covered kitchen and dining area at the home that I rent. Those sisters visited me when I was in the hospital. It's an honor to be a member of a Thai family. I'm paying for my own family to have a reunion in Ireland in a few weeks, for a wedding. Am I obligated to give the bride and groom a nice present? Yup.

Well said, PB. It is amazing how many farangs live here and never understand the people or their culture.

[ProThaiExpat]

I wonder if it is not more about intolerance, perhaps, which drives a lack of desire to understand, than anything else.

There are so many individuals, religions, and governments around the world that are just plain intolerant of others. Their way is the only way and its the highway if you don't adhere to their beliefs. Some groups take it to the point of murdering those who don't agree, so often in the name of religion, unfortunately.

Thus when one says "I don't agree with a custom (of a people)" isn't one just expressing intolerance which is a form of bigotry. Prostilization (sp) is a form of intolerance, as by its very nature, says to all, "my way is better". Such ego centered beliefs are a major cause of "man's inhumanity to man".

What happened to "live and let live". Why is it so important to express your views when they fly in the face of a countries customs or a segment of society that isn't yours. I often ask opinionated people if there is a right and wrong way of things and if the answer is a quick "of course', your likely facing an intolerant person and therefore a bigot.

So often one hears "your wrong, I'm right", especially in relationships, where in my view, there is no right or wrong in human endeavor, unless your beliefs or actions cause harm to others. Many people feel it is so important to be "right" to "win" in a assembly of views.

In Thaivisa, so often we see trading of views as a fact finding effort turn into personal attacks on posters who may profess a point of view contrary to ours and that is usually as a direct result of the "I have to win" attitude or just plain intolerance and bigotry. This form of intolerance breeds no good and often isolates an individual who holds a view that is not shared by many. It seems to me we should have a Thaivisa rule that states that an attack on the content of posts is permissible but attacks on the poster are not.

I for one, enjoy learning from informative posts regarding Thai culture, such as this thread, but who really cares if someone disagrees with sin sod among gays as a matter of principle. I am sure you can find someone to disagree about anything, so whats the point of negative posts? Intolerance or bigotry run rampant and one learns nothing of value from them. I don't agree with the Thaivisa approach that allows venting for venting sake and I try to apologize when ever I catch myself doing it. Am I doing it now?

Yes, in the area of human suffering, strong nations may feel compelled to intervene to ameliorate genocide or other forms of great bigotry and intolerance, but such intervenor's into the affairs of others must be doubly careful to alleviate the suffering without imposing their own belief systems on others.

Edited May 6, 2007 by ProThaiExpat

[Krub]

When you get into a serious lasting relationship it also includes a relationship with both families.

Each sides brings what can to the relationship and that inlcudes material elements.

This is universal all over the world and in all kinds of relationships.

In Thailand it can be very open for the richer partner to naturaly give without the receiving party being offended, I think this is great and makes families real ones by helping one and other and living in harmony.

I have never felt 'obliged' to give or fekt that if I did not give the relationship would suffer.

[cm-happy]

I'm the OP. When I started this thread did not think it was in the least bit controvertial. Apparently I was wrong, as I so often am. I was simply curious if gay people did the Sin soht thing.

Sin soht is a Thai custom, although perhaps not practiced everywhere in Thailand and also extends to the issue of generosity, by extending assistence to mates family, and not just a one time lump sum payment.

But also applies, in a peripheral way, to assimilation (remember that thread).

But about charity & generosity. To the Buddhists out there surly you're familiar with The Buddha's teaching

Cultivate wholesomeness by giving useful things to those who are in need: food,clothing,money. Be charatable even if you are poor, but NOT TO THE DETRIMENT OF YOUR OWN WELFARE.

Similar sentiments in Christianity or Judiism, or what ever faith y

you may follow.

'Nuff said.

Everyone is entitled to express their own opinion in a polite, non confrontational manner without attacking those whose thoughts & opinions differ from their own. LETS KEEP IT CIVILIZED!!!!

[IJustKnowItAll]

I must agree that giving something just for "face" and for showing off is kind of vulgar. Give from your heart and without motive.

Hope that doesnt make me intolerant of Thai people!

[FranklyNoMore]

Just because you don’t like something doesn’t then mean that you are intolerant of those who do. I wonder why memebers assume this. If someone wants to give gifts/money whatever to their partner’s family to flaunt in front of others, as some members have said they do, then that’s up to them. If they feel that’s the right way to do things because that’s the way it’s always been done then good for them. If they don’t feel the need to question it or just accept it then good for them. But please don’t assume I can’t respect those who wish to do this even though I think it’s vulgar and wouldn’t do it myself. Giving is a good deed but giving for “FACE” is different and a worthless act because the motives are all wrong.

So I disagree and the “I love Thailand and all things Thai” brigade is out in force and anyone who says something to the contrary is intolerant and a Thai basher. Therefore certain replies to my post are of course predictable. When are people going to learn that disagreeing with someone or something doesn’t mean one cannot accept it or their point of view?

You see their assumptions are way off the mark. Yes live and let live. Yes we all have viewpoints on different things. This is a forum about expressing them.

I don’t agree with arranged marriages and the caste system .So, am I intolerant of Indian culture? Those who wish to go down that path can do so if they wish, it’s up to them. People make choices which are right for them. I don’t agree with sacrificing animals for some ritual/ custom. I don’t agree with bullfighting. Is that not a Spanish custom? So you assume I hate Spanish people because they love it and I’m so intolerant of them? What about male and female circumcision? That’s part of Muslim culture. If I disagree with that am I anti Muslim?

Sin Sod is a custom which I don’t agree with. It happens to be a Thai custom. Some foreigners have been denied marriage because they wouldn’t pay the asking price to their future wife’s parents. Shouldn’t the fact that they love one another be enough for the parents? How come money came into the equation? It seems yet another dated custom which is slowly dying out as many others have.

I have a friend who built a house for his partner in his village. It was done purely for the love of this guy and not to show off to the rest of the village. Whether it is seen by the Thais as face and something to show off is up to them but I know he did it for love.

Some people give to their partner’s family so they could show off and they know this when they give the gifts. I questioned this act and called it vulgar but that doesn’t make me intolerant of anyone or Thai people. They did what you felt was right and I simply disagreed.

Those who wish to give sin sod should go for it. You will do whatever you feel is right for you in your own unique situation.

[farang prince]

Just because you don’t like something doesn’t then mean that you are intolerant of those who do. I wonder why memebers assume this. If someone wants to give gifts/money whatever to their partner’s family to flaunt in front of others, as some members have said they do, then that’s up to them. If they feel that’s the right way to do things because that’s the way it’s always been done then good for them. If they don’t feel the need to question it or just accept it then good for them. But please don’t assume I can’t respect those who wish to do this even though I think it’s vulgar and wouldn’t do it myself. Giving is a good deed but giving for “FACE” is different and a worthless act because the motives are all wrong.

So I disagree and the “I love Thailand and all things Thai” brigade is out in force and anyone who says something to the contrary is intolerant and a Thai basher. Therefore certain replies to my post are of course predictable. When are people going to learn that disagreeing with someone or something doesn’t mean one cannot accept it or their point of view?

You see their assumptions are way off the mark. Yes live and let live. Yes we all have viewpoints on different things. This is a forum about expressing them.

I don’t agree with arranged marriages and the caste system .So, am I intolerant of Indian culture? Those who wish to go down that path can do so if they wish, it’s up to them. People make choices which are right for them. I don’t agree with sacrificing animals for some ritual/ custom. I don’t agree with bullfighting. Is that not a Spanish custom? So you assume I hate Spanish people because they love it and I’m so intolerant of them? What about male and female circumcision? That’s part of Muslim culture. If I disagree with that am I anti Muslim?

Sin Sod is a custom which I don’t agree with. It happens to be a Thai custom. Some foreigners have been denied marriage because they wouldn’t pay the asking price to their future wife’s parents. Shouldn’t the fact that they love one another be enough for the parents? How come money came into the equation? It seems yet another dated custom which is slowly dying out as many others have.

I have a friend who built a house for his partner in his village. It was done purely for the love of this guy and not to show off to the rest of the village. Whether it is seen by the Thais as face and something to show off is up to them but I know he did it for love.

Some people give to their partner’s family so they could show off and they know this when they give the gifts. I questioned this act and called it vulgar but that doesn’t make me intolerant of anyone or Thai people. They did what you felt was right and I simply disagreed.

Those who wish to give sin sod should go for it. You will do whatever you feel is right for you in your own unique situation.

You keep beating the drum about Sin Sod just being a way for Thai people to show off. How did you come to this conclusion? The examples that I have given about what my Sin Sod is used for are normal everyday needs. Do you buy gifts for your girlfriend's/boyfriend's immediate family on special occasions like birthdays? Do you help them out in times of need? This is being a responsible member of your partner's family. If you don't do this, I'm sure the members of your partner's family consider you to be a cold and cheap farang. You can live in a country without agreeing with all aspects of the native culture. That is your right. But get your reasoning right...Sin Sod is not just given for "face" value or for merit. You think it is foolish for us farangs to give Sin Sod to our partner's family? Who cares? I didn't ask for your permission in the first place.

Edited May 8, 2007 by farang prince

[FranklyNoMore]

You keep beating the drum about Sin Sod just being a way for Thai people to show off.

No I don't.

How did you come to this conclusion?

I haven't

The examples that I have given about what my Sin Sod is used for are normal everyday needs. Do you buy gifts for your girlfriend's/boyfriend's immediate family on special occasions like birthdays? Do you help them out in times of need? This is being a responsible member of your partner's family.

It is indeed. Whose disagreeing with that?

If you don't do this, I'm sure the members of your partner's family consider you to be a cold and cheap farang. You can live in a country without agreeing with all aspects of the native culture. That is your right. But get your reasoning right...Sin Sod is not just given for "face" value or for merit.

Didn’t say it was.

You think it is foolish for us farangs to give Sin Sod to our partner's family? Who cares? I didn't ask for your permission in the first place.

Didn’t say that either. I just said I didn't agree with it and wouldn't do it myself.

It appears you didn’t understand my post. Unfortunately I wasn’t allowed to name the member who said he gave gifts/money to his family for them to have face and show off. That's what I didn’t agree with. I thought it was pretty clear but obviously not.

Give whatever you want, as I also said, it’s up to you but not for me.

IMHO Sin Sod is a poor family’s way of extracting money out of their future in laws.

That's why it's mainly an up country thing. That's why it's dying out and many families now don’t pay a sin sod anymore especially in BKK.

If you met your future wife or b/f in a bar then it's pretty likely they come from a poor family and so the let's screw the farangs for us much as we can get mentality takes over and a sin sod will have to be paid. I'm sure that's why many on here are defending it.

As my partner is educated and has his own business, I’ve never paid a baht to his family because he takes responsibility for them. That includes paying health insurance. His family are not rich, they are food sellers. They don’t throw money away on lottery tickets, gamble, drink or take drugs. That cannot be said of many families whose children are working in bars and who probably want as much money as they can get from a sin sod.

I don’t see anything wrong in paying a sin sod to the parents if they give it back to the married couple to help them start their life together. Unfortunately many times it just isn’t.

So pay a sin sod if you want but it's not for me. Give from your heart and not to show off or have face.

[dukkha]

...For one to respect the thai face/facade, one has to give up ones self worth/self concept..Do you consider this a reasonable expectation for anybody who has any sense of self worth?

The only reason it works is WE are told it has to be because we are not as valuable as THEY are...Regardless of our own wisdom, age, wealth or health , we are in a position of subjegation.

So, what would be the position of an older thai man and a younger thai woman? Or an older thai man and a younger thai man?

Are we put in this poisition because we are older or because we are farang?

One should be humiliated before our thai peers so that the thai face/facade can be saved?

If that is so, what is the level of self esteem for ourselves?

Tradition is not without value, however, as a guest in this country, I would never subject a native born person to the degredation that is expected by them of us..I did not provide a sin sod when I met my thai partner, rather I chose to give what I could from my heart...at no time was I asked to provide anything for his family...in fact when we met he asked me to visit his room, then my heart sank, working in a factory from the age of 14, he had then turned 27, I looked around and saw his life...I asked if there was anything I could buy him...his request was that he have a fan, and that day I bought him a 600 baht fan, since then I built a house for him and provided some more money so his parents could have a decent kitchen and bathroom..I was never asked to provide for the family but now they are my family and have exended kindness and civility....this is not my culture, but my love for my partner transcends any cultural barriers etc...comparisons are odious, especially those of a cultural nature..After two years of care and nurturing I dont need to venture into any sociological discourse regarding inter-cultural relationships....leave that to Margaret Mead and others...we all share the human condition, a commonality..any time wasted in analysis of thai/farang discourse is no longer required for me to enjoy what have been the most important and wonderful years of my life... Dukkha

[popshirt]

...For one to respect the thai face/facade, one has to give up ones self worth/self concept..Do you consider this a reasonable expectation for anybody who has any sense of self worth?

The only reason it works is WE are told it has to be because we are not as valuable as THEY are...Regardless of our own wisdom, age, wealth or health , we are in a position of subjegation.

So, what would be the position of an older thai man and a younger thai woman? Or an older thai man and a younger thai man?

Are we put in this poisition because we are older or because we are farang?

One should be humiliated before our thai peers so that the thai face/facade can be saved?

If that is so, what is the level of self esteem for ourselves?

<snip>

Dukkha

Dukka, this part of your post, if I understand it correctly, views "face" as a zero sum game between farang and Thai, older and younger, bwana and slave, etc. This is not my understanding of face. Just because someone gains "face" doesn't mean another person loses face. Or that one is dishonest. One of my first learnings about the face thing was when I would give a gift to a Thai, like a birthday gift, and she or he would not make much over it, usually placing it on the floor without opening it. This puzzled me until I learned that it was I who had gained face in this transaction by being the giver. The recipient was indeed grateful, but it was not seen as a great big thank you whoop de doo thing because it was about me as well. This experience has been repeated with many Thais both rural and urban. In our village near Pakchong, one gains face by having a child graduate university. Whatever could be bad about that? Face is also achieved by having children who are well behaved or by doing a favour for someone else. Conversely one can lose face by acting out unpleasant emotions such as anger in a public place. Most westerners don't even notice this aspect of face. Face does have to do with status, especially in smaller communities and can be related to the acquisition of material things but this is just one aspect of face, and in my experience, a less important one.

[dukkha]

Tam Jai Khun Pop....! Points noted... Dukkha

[buddhafly]

i'm a straight guy who found this thread by searching the word sin sod in my own marriage research.

so hope you won't mind me saying that if the world is not prepared to give the gay community the fair right to have a fully recognized marriage, then why should you get stuck with paying sin sod?

that'd be like paying the price without getting the full goods.

[ProThaiExpat]

While I appreciate budhaffly understanding post, relationships are reality, whether a government recognizes them or not. That is why we have "defacto" or "common law" marriages. There are many long term relationships between falang and Thai boys in Thailand that are as much a "marriage" as anything between opposite gender couples, and that includes parenting.

In such cases, a long term relationship between two people "earns" or "acquires" marital recognition legally by its length and character even in Thailand. Although at present, gender is a determining factor.

As the "straight" world increasingly accepts "civil registries" for same sex relationships and the urge to give them full rights as long as you don't call it marriage, de facto marriages between same sex couples are being recognized incrementally with some countries, far ahead of others. take the obvious next step and legalize same-sex marriage.

What some realize, including the Catholic church that opposes same sex civil registries, is that the logical next step after same-sex registeries, is for supreme courts to reinforce their long standing rulings that "separate is not equal". Ultimately, I believe, civil or governmental recognition of relationships will not be gender specific and only certain churches will require opposite sex unions under their dogma.

In Thailand, it is only a matter of time until the Immigration Department recognizes legitimate same-sex marriages from other countries where it is legal.

It was 17 years from the time California first allowed inter-racial marriage until the time the U.S. Supreme Court made it mandatory among the states. At the time the Supreme Court so ruled, almost 80% of Americans opposed inter-racial marriage and in many souther states it was banned with harsh penalties. Such opposition today toward gay marriage is barely 50% of the U.S. population as a whole.

California, through both of its legislatures, last year enacted a law enabling same-sex marriages. The Republican governor, running for re-election, vetoed the will of the people as reflected in their elected representatives.

With Thailand's long standing recognition of the "3rd sex", it doesn't seem to me much of a stretch, that same-sex marriage will be legal in Thailand. The very presence of so many gays and 3rd sex public figures on Thai television speaks to eventual acceptance by Thai society. One need only look to the stats from the U.S. regarding the change in attitudes toward gays and same-sex marriage after the coming out of such celebrities as Rosie O'Donnel and the blond comedian who has her own talk show and Emmy, whose name escapes me at the present. Look what the show Will & Grace has done toward acceptance of gays.

In Thailand, as around the world, statistics clearly show that the younger generation are far more accepting of gays and same-sex relationships as their parents. This speaks to the future.

[jumnien]

I'm all for same-sex marriages or three or four people getting married, whatever. I 'm very much opposed to the idea of gay marriages, however. The thought that someone should have to prove to a governmental agency that one is a homosexual first of all, and having sex with the intended spouse is ridiculous. If two or three or four guys, or three guys and seven women want to get married, I say let 'em. Just leave the interrogation about sexual intentions and activity out of the governmental equation.

Sin sod for gays in Thailand? Why not, if you want. Heck, if we take someone's buffalo or even the pick of the recent litter, we give 'em money. Why not for their children?

[bruceboy]

With Thailand's long standing recognition of the "3rd sex", it doesn't seem to me much of a stretch, that same-sex marriage will be legal in Thailand. The very presence of so many gays and 3rd sex public figures on Thai television speaks to eventual acceptance by Thai society. .

After only being here in Thailand a relatively short time, I've noticed that Thai society is far more tolerant to Gays than elsewhere so, IMHO, a santified 'marriage' law written into the books here is probably not in the offing. Doesn't appear to be needed?

As far as sin sod goes, isn't that a particularly Issan thing?

Not all Thais subscribe to it do they?

[Krub]

With Thailand's long standing recognition of the "3rd sex", it doesn't seem to me much of a stretch, that same-sex marriage will be legal in Thailand. The very presence of so many gays and 3rd sex public figures on Thai television speaks to eventual acceptance by Thai society. .

After only being here in Thailand a relatively short time, I've noticed that Thai society is far more tolerant to Gays than elsewhere so, IMHO, a santified 'marriage' law written into the books here is probably not in the offing. Doesn't appear to be needed?

As far as sin sod goes, isn't that a particularly Issan thing?

Not all Thais subscribe to it do they?

Sin Sod used to be the norm. It is still very much alive upcountry and not only in Isaan.