Biden says UK border with Ireland must be open

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Doesn’t change the fact that the UK needs a trade deal with the US and will do as President Elect Biden requires.

 

2021 will indeed be an interesting year, the caravan rightwing nationalists have lost their poster boy.

 

 

It doesn't really need a trade deal with the US. That was just a piece of nonsense propagated by Brexiters. They claim that such an agreement will substantially compensate for the loss of free trade privileges with the EU. The current govt. released a report that a free trade agreement with the US would increase GDP growth by a total of 0.16% over 15 years. 

[CorpusChristie]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Doesn’t change the fact that the UK needs a trade deal with the US and will do as President Elect Biden requires.

 

 

 

 

 

   You really need to stop posting what you would like to happen, as being factual  .

   The UK "needs" a trade deal with the EU , just as much as it needs trade deal with the USA.....................and are we doing what the EU tells us to do ?

  No, we are not 

[kingdong]

7 hours ago, polpott said:

Ask a European and they will say the opposite. UK was seen as a very demanding member who went against the grain and always got their way.

 

Did we adopt the Euro? Did we take in even one of Merkel's millions? Did we get a rebate that persists to this day?

 

Here's some of the deals Cameron negotiated shortly before we voted to leave the EU:

 

Sovereignty.

 

Allowing Britain to opt out from the EU's founding ambition to forge an "ever closer union" of the peoples of Europe so it will not be drawn into further political integration in a "formal, legally binding and irreversible way". Giving greater powers to national parliaments to block EU legislation.

 

Migrants and welfare benefits

 

The UK government has already reached an agreement on out-of-work benefits. Newly arrived EU migrants are banned from claiming jobseeker's allowance for three months. If they have not found a job within six months they will be required to leave. 

 

The Council would authorise that Member State to limit the access of newly arriving EU workers to non-contributory in-work benefits for a total period of up to four years from the commencement of employment. The limitation should be graduated, from an initial complete exclusion but gradually increasing access to such benefits to take account of the growing connection of the worker with the labour market of the host Member State. The authorisation would have a limited duration and apply to EU workers newly arriving during a period of 7 years.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105

 

I think the EU will be glad to see the back of us.

 

 

Sounds like a party political broadcast by project fear.oh i see its by aunty beeb,that explains it.

[kingdong]

4 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Breaking the terms of the agreement means breaking treaties with all the guarantors, Ireland, etc.  and should result in some form of sanctions.

What like an embargo on the exports of clogs to the uk?

[polpott]

Just now, kingdong said:

Sounds like a party political broadcast by project fear.oh i see its by aunty beeb,that explains it.

It was extracts from deals signed by Cameron and Donald Tusk not long before the referendum. The BBC just reported the facts. Sorry it shatters your illusion about the UK being ruled by the EU and Germany. You should have listened more to Project Fear and less to AIQ, Cambridge Analytica, The St. Petersburg Troll Farm, Farage, Johnson and all those trying to pull the wool over the sheeples eyes.

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4 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   You really need to stop posting what you would like to happen, as being factual  .

   The UK "needs" a trade deal with the EU , just as much as it needs trade deal with the USA.....................and are we doing what the EU tells us to do ?

  No, we are not 

I guess it depends on how you define what the UK's needs are. If it needs free trade then obviously it needs it more with the EU than it does with any other nations or trading bloc. If not, then not.

Edited November 29, 2020 by placeholder

[kingdong]

3 minutes ago, polpott said:

It was extracts from deals signed by Cameron and Donald Tusk not long before the referendum. The BBC just reported the facts. Sorry it shatters your illusion about the UK being ruled by the EU and Germany. You should have listened more to Project Fear and less to AIQ, Cambridge Analytica, The St. Petersburg Troll Farm, Farage, Johnson and all those trying to pull the wool over the sheeples eyes.

We,re leaving,you lost get over it.

[polpott]

4 minutes ago, kingdong said:

We,re leaving,you lost get over it.

We've left and now the country is in the mire (as predicted by Project Fear). Get over it.

[7by7]

22 hours ago, kingdong said:

Was barnier " democratically elected"?

 No, he was appointed by the EU Council to whom he is accountable.

 

Was Lord Frost democratically elected?

 

No, he was appointed by the UK government to whom he is accountable.

 

So what is your point?

Edited November 29, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[fangless]

2 hours ago, polpott said:

We've left and now the country is in the mire (as predicted by Project Fear). Get over it.

Who can now differentiate between the affects of COVID and Brexit.  Deal or No deal.  A pointless argument that will never be provable by any side of either argument!

 

[7by7]

21 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   You know what I meant ; The E.U telling the UK who is and who isnt allowed to enter the UK, amongst other things , is what I meant 

 So when my wife and step daughter applied for their visas to live in the UK with me they applied to the EU?

 

Strange, I distinctly remember their applications from initial visas up to and including naturalisation being decided by the UK Home Office!

 

Historically the largest number of immigrants to the UK come from non EU/EEA countries and still do. Their applications and decisions on same  are dealt with by the UK's immigration rules which, like the equivalent rules of every member state, are nothing to do with the EU.

[7by7]

20 hours ago, kingdong said:

21 hours ago, polpott said:

. I can assure you he didn't do it because he would "like" to do it, he did it out of a sense of doing what's right 

So he wasn,t conscripted then?

 I can't answer for @polpott, but my father, like many of his generation, volunteered in September 1939.

 

Personally I consider your remarks that my being a Remainer somehow belittles him and the 6 years he served to be beneath contempt.

[bkkcanuck8]

9 minutes ago, fangless said:

Who can now differentiate between the affects of COVID and Brexit.  Deal or No deal.  A pointless argument that will never be provable by any side of either argument!

 

You cannot separate the effects of COVID and Brexit directly, but you can compare the UK to the rest of the EU which has also been hit by COVID.... and get a good idea of the overall effects of Brexit from the overall effects of COVID.  Assuming their is no impact from COVID you should be able to see the UK holding the same ranking against other EU countries when it comes to the economy.  You should also be able to see about the same impact to the UK economy as other EU countries.  If the UK has improved in comparison then Brexit can be assumed to be positive, if it has worsened in comparison to other EU countries it can be assumed that Brexit effects have been negative (and to what extent). 

[7by7]

3 hours ago, kingdong said:

Sounds like a party political broadcast by project fear.oh i see its by aunty beeb,that explains it.

 It's the truth about what Cameron negotiated and agreed. You'll find the same in any source you care to look at.

 

But truth and Brexiteers are often strangers.

[placeholder]

28 minutes ago, fangless said:

Who can now differentiate between the affects of COVID and Brexit.  Deal or No deal.  A pointless argument that will never be provable by any side of either argument!

 

 

14 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

You cannot separate the effects of COVID and Brexit directly, but you can compare the UK to the rest of the EU which has also been hit by COVID.... and get a good idea of the overall effects of Brexit from the overall effects of COVID.  Assuming their is no impact from COVID you should be able to see the UK holding the same ranking against other EU countries when it comes to the economy.  You should also be able to see about the same impact to the UK economy as other EU countries.  If the UK has improved in comparison then Brexit can be assumed to be positive, if it has worsened in comparison to other EU countries it can be assumed that Brexit effects have been negative (and to what extent). 

If no deal is reached, the disaster at the borders will catastrophically demonstrate the differing effects of Brexit and Covid.

[CorpusChristie]

27 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 So when my wife and step daughter applied for their visas to live in the UK with me they applied to the EU?

 

Strange, I distinctly remember their applications from initial visas up to and including naturalisation being decided by the UK Home Office!

 

Historically the largest number of immigrants to the UK come from non EU/EEA countries and still do. Their applications and decisions on same  are dealt with by the UK's immigration rules which, like the equivalent rules of every member state, are nothing to do with the EU.

 

  Being a member of the E.U. gave every European citizen the right to live and work in the UK , they were E.U rules, not the UKs rules 

[KhaoNiaw]

7 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Being a member of the E.U. gave every European citizen the right to live and work in the UK , they were E.U rules, not the UKs rules 

EU rules only give citizens the right to reside and seek employment for up to 3 months. Some EU countries enforce the rule but the UK decided not to, so EU citizens without work could stay.

Edited November 29, 2020 by KhaoNiaw

[fangless]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

If no deal is reached, the disaster at the borders will catastrophically demonstrate the differing effects of Brexit and Covid.

If the borders are shut because of COVID how do you tell the difference?

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, fangless said:

If the borders are shut because of COVID how do you tell the difference?

The borders aren't shut to goods only to most people.

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, polpott said:

We've left and now the country is in the mire (as predicted by Project Fear). Get over it.

When the facts are against you, you go to motive. It's a transparent ploy.

[Loiner]

18 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

EU rules only give citizens the right to reside and seek employment for up to 3 months. Some EU countries enforce the rule but the UK decided not to, so EU citizens without work could stay.

And stay they do. The many free benefits are too strong an attraction. Get the magic bus from eastern europe; drop off at the job centre to register; disappear for three months; then appear on the same bus again to claim. All thanks to Tony Blair and the leftists. 

They are still flocking to the UK too, with 4.26 million settlement applications up to end October 2020, and their deadline not until end June 2021. How many more will find ways to stay here when they see how successful Brexit is and the EU continues down the gurgler in 2021?

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   You really need to stop posting what you would like to happen, as being factual  .

   The UK "needs" a trade deal with the EU , just as much as it needs trade deal with the USA.....................and are we doing what the EU tells us to do ?

  No, we are not 

You seemed to have most a salient point.

 

Unlike the US, the EU has not told the UK to comply wit an EU demand before a even the possibility of trade deal can be agreed.

 

Well, apart from that large bill the EU handed the UK and the UK agreed to pay.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

56 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Being a member of the E.U. gave every European citizen the right to live and work in the UK , they were E.U rules, not the UKs rules 

EU rules the U.K. had a part in writing and passed in the UK Houses of Parliament.

 

Oh, and it worked the other way too, British citizens had the right to live and work in EU nations.

 

 

[7by7]

54 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Being a member of the E.U. gave every European citizen the right to live and work in the UK , they were E.U rules, not the UKs rules 

 But that's not what you said. You said "The E.U telling the UK who is and who isnt allowed to enter the UK." Which is not the case.

 

It was only the case with EU/EEA/Swiss nationals provided they met the appropriate requirements of the FoM; which the UK agreed to.

 

Just the same as the approx. 1.8 million British nationals living in the EU!

 

 

[7by7]

54 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

EU rules only give citizens the right to reside and seek employment for up to 3 months. Some EU countries enforce the rule but the UK decided not to, so EU citizens without work could stay.

 Not strictly true.

 

Those who entered the UK via the FoM directive as jobseekers could only stay for a maximum of three months unless they found work in that time. It is those who entered as workers who subsequently lost their jobs who were not subjected to this three months rule by the UK government.

 

[CorpusChristie]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 But that's not what you said. You said "The E.U telling the UK who is and who isnt allowed to enter the UK." Which is not the case.

 

 

 

  I did mean in regards to other European citizens , rather than non European citizens , I should have made that clearer 

[polpott]

1 hour ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Being a member of the E.U. gave every European citizen the right to live and work in the UK , they were E.U rules, not the UKs rules 

They were rules that the UK helped formulate and willingly signed on to.

[CorpusChristie]

3 minutes ago, polpott said:

They were rules that the UK helped formulate and willingly signed on to.

 

  I do believe that accepting those rules were a  requirement to join the E.U . 

  No opt out option was given . 

 

[polpott]

2 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  I do believe that accepting those rules were a  requirement to join the E.U . 

  No opt out option was given . 

 

We were in the EU when those rules were formulated.

 

Treaty of Maastricht 1992

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by polpott

[7by7]

19 minutes ago, Loiner said:

And stay they do. The many free benefits are too strong an attraction. Get the magic bus from eastern europe; drop off at the job centre to register; disappear for three months; then appear on the same bus again to claim.

 Total nonsense; as usual from you.

 

As has been shown to you many times, the vast majority of EU nationals living in the UK are working or the family of workers.

 

I expect you'll now repeat the other myth; that they're taking jobs from British workers!

 

Can you provide any evidence of your 'magic bus?'

 

33 minutes ago, Loiner said:

All thanks to Tony Blair and the leftists. 

 Although the FoM directive came into being in 2004, it was nothing new. What it did was simply bring together all the various bits and pieces contained in other directives since the Treaty of Rome.

 

As Tony Blair was only three years old at the time (ok, three years ten months) it's a bit harsh to blame it on him!

 

22 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

They are still flocking to the UK too, with 4.26 million settlement applications up to end October 2020, and their deadline not until end June 2021. How many more will find ways to stay here when they see how successful Brexit is and the EU continues down the gurgler in 2021?

According to the government many have had to, or will have to, apply twice; once when they've had fewer than 5 years’ qualifying residence and received pre-settled status; a second time when they've passed the 5-year mark and have to apply again to upgrade to settled status.(Source)

 

Of course, UK nationals living in EU countries are busy doing the same there.