8 hours ago, ThaIrish Sean said:

The Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine has to be non-profit because they used public money.

Although it may not be as effective as some of the other vaccines that have hit the headlines it is easier to store and cheaper to produce so bodes well for the poorer countries.

As our bodies adapt to this new threat it will become like the winter flu is.

In 1918 the Spanish flu killed 500 million people, 1/3 of the world's population and now it is just a flu that we get an annual injection for.

Yes a non profit set up and free in the UK and at cost further afield so one would assume the vaccine will be cheap and affordable to all in Asia . 

The good doctor is right but that is common sense. By the time innoculation comes around the vaccines will be worthless, degraded or spoilt. Moreso, the virus for the little fear it poses and the little good it will do, will have mutated so much that a vaccine will be like a dose of Chao Phraya water.  This is an expert saying this, not me, the messenger. These vaccines are NOT safe.

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I would have said the exact same thing though it obviously carries a lot more weight coming from an expert. On the other hand, so many people these days disrespect experts.

 

The fact that multiple probably safe and very effective vaccines are close to being released is not the same thing at all as getting it into the arms of majorities in Thailand and all over the world. 

Can I have mine in the butt.........please.......????

12 hours ago, webfact said:

He predicted, however, that the COVID-19 situation in Thailand will ease next year, although it will remain in the country for up to 2 years, after which the contagion will transform into a seasonal infection, like the flu.

Somehow, I dont think this thing will become like the " Flu "

There seem to be so many long lasting effects of this thing in some people .

20 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Very strange and stressed response !

 

So now I have magically morphed into a MAGA  Trump supporter?!  I guess if that works for you .. ???? Meanwhile, a non US  or UK source. Knock yourself out.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/11/26/astrazeneca-says-its-covid-19-vaccine-needs-additional-study

 

 

47 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

 

So now I have magically morphed into a MAGA  Trump supporter?!  I guess if that works for you .. ???? Meanwhile, a non US  or UK source. Knock yourself out.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/11/26/astrazeneca-says-its-covid-19-vaccine-needs-additional-study

 

 

Happy to see you found a more balanced and  accurate  item.  No belligerence or insult in it at all. lol

Just now, Dumbastheycome said:

Happy to see you found a more balanced and  accurate  item.  No belligerence or insult in it at all. lol

 

The NYT article was not belligerent or insulting. Unfortunately what is in your own mind can cloud perception. Might try a reread, this time without prejudices and preconceptions. Excellent article as usual. As always our hopes and prayers are with you. 

 

After Admitting Mistake, AstraZeneca Faces Difficult Questions About Its Vaccine

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/business/coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-oxford.html 

 

Cheers

On 11/26/2020 at 5:16 AM, ourmanflint said:

All 3 of the vaccines currently ending trials and waiting to be green lit, are effective against all of the current strains of Covid, there is no reason to assume they will not continue to be effective for quite a long time.

The Astra Zenneca one that is supposed be produced in Thailand will be cheapest by far and can be stored in a normal fridge for months so no problem for any country storing and distributing it safely

Flu's change and this vaccinations change. This is normal. Every year new vaccines get produced to deal with this. 

On 11/26/2020 at 1:59 PM, Magenta408 said:

The good doctor is right but that is common sense. By the time innoculation comes around the vaccines will be worthless, degraded or spoilt. Moreso, the virus for the little fear it poses and the little good it will do, will have mutated so much that a vaccine will be like a dose of Chao Phraya water.  This is an expert saying this, not me, the messenger. These vaccines are NOT safe.

Even if a voru mutates (which in reality may just be a very small change in its structure), the vaccine can still be effective.  Covid has already mutated - probably several times, but they are still producting the same vaccine.

 

Over time, viruses generally become less deadly, which is in the best interest of the virus to continue to exist and spread. 

 

Vaccines are far safer than some of the nasty effects of covid infection. Saw a woman on the news today from the US who just had a double lung transplant as the virus destroyed her lungs. 

I'm a Brit. I'm also not a scientist or medical professional. Like most of the world the U.K. have had vaccines for various diseases for donkey's years. We've also had, obviously, the facility to track adverse reactions to these vaccines. I read somewhere, and sadly I can't find it now, that the average ADR is around 1% of the vaccinated population. Again, obviously these ADRs could be, perhaps, as mild as a headache or something like autism or narcolepsy, perhaps even death.
In the UK we have the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA). They put out to tender for an AI system to register the ADRs for covid-19 vaccines. Here's a link to some info
https://pharmaphorum.com/news/mhra-looks-to-ai-to-hunt-for-covid-19-vaccine-side-effects/
and here's a link to the Contract Award Notice. 

https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:506291-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML

Please note the language used in sections 11.1.4, 11.2.4, and Section 1V-Procedures, where it states

 

'Therefore, if the MHRA does not implement the AI tool, it will be unable to process these ADRs effectively. This will hinder its ability to rapidly identify any potential safety issues with the Covid-19 vaccine and represents a direct threat to patient life and public health'.

I think that the MHRA are concerned that their current 1% ADR systems will not cope....more ADRs are anticipated.
I'm not an anti- vaxxer. I only remember declining 'flu jabs as an adult and the BCG when at school ( a boy further up the queue fainted when stuck with the needle, so I made myself scarce, the rumour which flew down the line was that it was 9 needles!), but I'm going to sit this one out as long as it takes for us to know the potential ADR's, then I can make an informed decision depending on what impact the non- vaccination has on my lifestyle. I'm in Thailand now and currently the 'virus' makes no difference to me. I can appreciate though that it may be different for those of us in cities.

25 minutes ago, BRUFC said:

I'm a Brit. I'm also not a scientist or medical professional. Like most of the world the U.K. have had vaccines for various diseases for donkey's years. We've also had, obviously, the facility to track adverse reactions to these vaccines. I read somewhere, and sadly I can't find it now, that the average ADR is around 1% of the vaccinated population. Again, obviously these ADRs could be, perhaps, as mild as a headache or something like autism or narcolepsy, perhaps even death.
In the UK we have the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA). They put out to tender for an AI system to register the ADRs for covid-19 vaccines. Here's a link to some info
https://pharmaphorum.com/news/mhra-looks-to-ai-to-hunt-for-covid-19-vaccine-side-effects/
and here's a link to the Contract Award Notice. 

https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:506291-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML

Please note the language used in sections 11.1.4, 11.2.4, and Section 1V-Procedures, where it states

 

'Therefore, if the MHRA does not implement the AI tool, it will be unable to process these ADRs effectively. This will hinder its ability to rapidly identify any potential safety issues with the Covid-19 vaccine and represents a direct threat to patient life and public health'.

I think that the MHRA are concerned that their current 1% ADR systems will not cope....more ADRs are anticipated.
I'm not an anti- vaxxer. I only remember declining 'flu jabs as an adult and the BCG when at school ( a boy further up the queue fainted when stuck with the needle, so I made myself scarce, the rumour which flew down the line was that it was 9 needles!), but I'm going to sit this one out as long as it takes for us to know the potential ADR's, then I can make an informed decision depending on what impact the non- vaccination has on my lifestyle. I'm in Thailand now and currently the 'virus' makes no difference to me. I can appreciate though that it may be different for those of us in cities.

A sensible approach, although I would take it one level further...

Some will dismiss me as a 'hard-line anti-vaxxer' but I am utterly convinced that vaccination is NOT the Magic Bullet that some make of it and will solve the covid-stiuation. 

Strenghtening your immune-system is imo a far better approach.

But it is of course the antithesis of all the 'deny life' strategies like social distancing, masking and vaccination, that are the popular weapons to fight the killer virus, a battle that can never be won.

On 11/26/2020 at 5:31 AM, scorecard said:

Stupid comment, you need a hobby, perhaps lego.

Or a hot iron for the collar remodel

15 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

A sensible approach, although I would take it one level further...

Some will dismiss me as a 'hard-line anti-vaxxer' but I am utterly convinced that vaccination is NOT the Magic Bullet that some make of it and will solve the covid-stiuation. 

Strenghtening your immune-system is imo a far better approach.

But it is of course the antithesis of all the 'deny life' strategies like social distancing, masking and vaccination, that are the popular weapons to fight the killer virus, a battle that can never be won.

"Strenghtening your immune-system is imo a far better approach."

 

So please share how to do that and keep in mind that that Covid 19 is a highly contagious fast spreading disease, spreads across countries/the globe fast and with many deaths.

 

Perhaps you mean exercise more and et more carrots, will that bring an immune system that can/will successful fight off getting Covid 19?

17 hours ago, BRUFC said:

I'm going to sit this one out as long as it takes for us to know the potential ADR's, then I can make an informed decision depending on what impact the non- vaccination has on my lifestyle.

I think this is what the vast majority will do. The challenge will be whether governments can control the spread while everyone is figuring out if they will take the vaccine.

 

If the virus is out of control in most of the world (including and especially China, despite the Chinese lies), governments will have their hands tied.

 

If they don't open up the economies and travel to the risk, the economic devastation will continue. If they do and people don't take the vaccine (assuming it would be reasonably effective), more rapid spread and same result. 

 

Bad situation 

 

Edited November 28, 20205 yr by Fex Bluse

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

"Strenghtening your immune-system is imo a far better approach."

 

So please share how to do that and keep in mind that that Covid 19 is a highly contagious fast spreading disease, spreads across countries/the globe fast and with many deaths.

 

Perhaps you mean exercise more and et more carrots, will that bring an immune system that can/will successful fight off getting Covid 19?

The condescending carrot-remark in your last paragraph illustrates your stance in this matter.

Tons of evidence available but given the above allow me to refrain from responding to your uncivil bigotry comments.

Pearls before swine, ...

On 11/25/2020 at 10:29 PM, ThaIrish Sean said:

The Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine has to be non-profit because they used public money.

Although it may not be as effective as some of the other vaccines that have hit the headlines it is easier to store and cheaper to produce so bodes well for the poorer countries.

As our bodies adapt to this new threat it will become like the winter flu is.

In 1918 the Spanish flu killed 500 million people, 1/3 of the world's population and now it is just a flu that we get an annual injection for.

 

On 11/25/2020 at 10:29 PM, ThaIrish Sean said:

The Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine has to be non-profit because they used public money.

Although it may not be as effective as some of the other vaccines that have hit the headlines it is easier to store and cheaper to produce so bodes well for the poorer countries.

As our bodies adapt to this new threat it will become like the winter flu is.

In 1918 the Spanish flu killed 500 million people, 1/3 of the world's population and now it is just a flu that we get an annual injection for.

It did not kill 500 million people! It infected 500 million and killed between 20 an 30 million!!

43 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The condescending carrot-remark in your last paragraph illustrates your stance in this matter.

Tons of evidence available but given the above allow me to refrain from responding to your uncivil bigotry comments.

Pearls before swine, ...

Whatever rows your boat. Perhaps it would help your stance (which has logic;  healthy lifestyles which help the immune system obviously has merit) to explain what you mean.

 

Where does bigotry come into the discussion? 

On 11/26/2020 at 9:49 AM, LomSak27 said:

 

No doubt, but in other news ... "China vaccine trial halted in Brazil after serious adverse event"

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/11/10/world/science-health-world/china-vaccine-trial-halted-brazil/

Yes, and the "adverse event" was one participant in the trial committing suicide, an event which had absolutely nothing to do with the vaccine, according to everyone who looked into it.

 

The decision to halt the trial seems to have been politically motivated, by a government that has tried to deny the reality of the virus since the beginning. The fact that Jair Bolsonaro declared that the decision to halt the trial was a "victory" speaks volumes.

 

Quote

"Another victory for Jair Bolsonaro,” read a comment posted by the official Facebook account of Brazil’s far-right leader.

 

Bolsonaro claims 'victory' after suspension of Chinese vaccine trial

14 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Whatever rows your boat. Perhaps it would help your stance (which has logic;  healthy lifestyles which help the immune system obviously has merit) to explain what you mean.

 

Where does bigotry come into the discussion? 

My apologies, I presumed your comment on 'eating more carrots' was meant as a condescending remark.  But on re-reading your post indeed a healthy life-style which includes some exercising in open air and eating healthy food with fresh vegetables/fruit will surely help strengthening your immune system.  And its your immune system with its multi-layered barriers of defense against viral threats that is the key to 'dancing with the Virus' or dying with/from it.

The common narrative is about how to fight the Virus and avoiding that it catches us.   A fight - fear - hide strategy basically.  But there is no need for fear or hiding when your immune system is working properly, it's simple as that....

There is ample evidence now that lock-downs, social distancing and mask-wearing have NO impact at all (with the exception for those with challenged immune systems that need such protection).  Imposing such measures on the total population is panic-induced madness and goes against 40 years of solid science.  And in spite of the total failure of those self-inflicted measures taken, the virus followed its natural course irrespective of what governments did to 'control' it.  And the scary thing now are the plans for the ultimate Nuking 'solution' of mandatory mass-vaccination in the aftermath of the pandemic (the so-called 2nd wave is by no means comparable with the initial hit).  

Social distancing and mask-wearing I can comply with, they don't work but if it reduces the stress-factor in irrational Virus-fearing people there is at least a benefit there.  But mandatory vaccination is a totally different ball-game.

Note: I wonder how long this post will survive as it goes against the common narrative and might be removed because of spreading mis-information.

On 11/25/2020 at 2:29 PM, ThaIrish Sean said:

The Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine has to be non-profit because they used public money.

Although it may not be as effective as some of the other vaccines that have hit the headlines it is easier to store and cheaper to produce so bodes well for the poorer countries.

As our bodies adapt to this new threat it will become like the winter flu is.

In 1918 the Spanish flu killed 500 million people, 1/3 of the world's population and now it is just a flu that we get an annual injection for.

Good thought but that is not quite accurate.  If you read further in that article you will find that about 500 million people became infected with the flu.  About 10% or 50 million people died.  Either number is mindnumingly depressing.

I agree with you completely that the OAZ vaccine has the potential to be the worlds vaccine because of ease of distribution and cost.

23 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Strenghtening your immune-system is imo a far better approach

 

That's exactly what actual infection or vaccination does, it adds to your immune system in the form of B and two types of T cells along with some antibodies which are created for a while by the B cells.

 

On 11/26/2020 at 10:28 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Someone better at maths than I can work out how many workers would be needed to give 80 million doses in one year.

Um according to my calculations you will need 2,609 people to administer the 84 injections per day over 365 days, that comes to 80 million vaccinations.

4 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Note: I wonder how long this post will survive as it goes against the common narrative and might be removed because of spreading mis-information.

 

I think it will survive, well at lest hope so, I was taken down for 4 days 9 minutes, not easy to have free speech these days oi, we all have opinions, never in my 60 years had I been told that my opinion was mis informing and spreading rumours that were unfounded, welcome to the new world of shut the f up if it doesn't fit in our realms of our policies, comply, accept or be taken down, boo hoo, life was never so difficult to say what you wanted, regardless of !

Risky is everything in life. Vaccinations are just as risky as self importance and personal views.  One can be done for many things and here in Thailand certain items and views seem to be off limits, both in real life and on the ether.  The Astrazenica Vaccination trials have in the past few days come under some serious scientific community views. How can only half a first dose be better than a full dose, and then how can a full second vaccination in conjunction give better results.  Something in their study seems iffy to me, yet it is stated that antibodies are produced where the other vaccines are of a different type.  

Edited November 28, 20205 yr by ThailandRyan

I can have an early retire in the autumn 2022, so the pandemic MUST be gone by then!

DAH!!!  OF course!  that why Covid will be around for 3 ++ years...Dont expect anything to be normal again. 

On 11/26/2020 at 12:28 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Assuming one injection per worker could be given every 5 minutes ( allowing for breaks and meals ) in an 8 hour working day that's ( by my calculation ) 84 injections ( tell me if I'm wrong ).

Someone better at maths than I can work out how many workers would be needed to give 80 million doses in one year.

Where I come from it's 96 injections in 8 hours but I can inform you it will be much faster. I had the regular flu vaccination in October and it took only 2 minutes so there is hope.

1 minute ago, Albert Zweistein said:

Where I come from it's 96 injections in 8 hours but I can inform you it will be much faster. I had the regular flu vaccination in October and it took only 2 minutes so there is hope.

96 in 8 hours is exactly 5 minutes each by my calculations, but doesn't allow time for lunch and tea breaks.

 

it took only 2 minutes

Given it takes a couple of minutes for the patient to go in the room and sit down, then to ascertain that the patient is the correct one, and that they are not knowingly allergic to the injection being given, 30 seconds to lift the shirt sleeve, 30 seconds to remove the needle cap safely, 45 seconds to fill the syringe correctly, 45 seconds to swab the skin and let it dry, 30 seconds to inject the vaccine, 30 seconds to dispose of the syringe in the sharps container safely, 30 seconds to apply the plaster and a couple of minutes to give the patient the safety instructions, the patient to leave the room and the room to be prepared for next patient, something is being omitted to do 96 in an 8 hour shift unless that's for 2 staff.

 

To do more than that would be unsafe, IMO

 

I had my flu jab and it took a lot longer than 2 minutes.

12 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

How can only half a first dose be better than a full dose, and then how can a full second vaccination in conjunction give better results.

Because people are biological, not androids and things don't always make sense when dealing with biological systems.