'On a knife edge': Britain and EU in last-ditch trade talks

[webfact]

'On a knife edge': Britain and EU in last-ditch trade talks

By Estelle Shirbon and Padraic Halpin

 

An electronic billboard displays a British government information message advising business to prepare for the Brexit, in London, Britain December 4, 2020. REUTERS/Toby Melville

 

LONDON/DUBLIN (Reuters) - Britain and the European Union will make a last-ditch attempt to strike a post-Brexit trade deal this week, with probably just days left for negotiators to avert a chaotic parting of ways at the end of the year.

 

Ireland's prime minister, whose country would face more economic pain than any of the other 26 EU member states in the case of a "no deal", cautioned against over-optimism, putting the chances of an agreement at only 50-50.

 

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen spoke over the weekend to get their teams back to the negotiating table after talks stalled on three thorny issues.

 

They are due to hold another call on Monday evening in the hope that, by then, stubborn differences over fishing rights in UK waters, fair competition and ways to solve future disputes will have narrowed.

 

 

The Guardian newspaper reported after talks resumed on Sunday that there had been "a major breakthrough" on the rights of European fleets to fish in UK waters, leaving only a wrestle over how closely Britain should hew to EU environmental, social and labour standards over time to ensure a level playing field.

 

A British government source said there had been no breakthrough on fishing rights on Sunday.

EU officials did not immediately comment on the report.

 

Irish Prime Minister Micheal Martin was not optimistic.

 

"My sense, having spoken to some of the key principals here, is that it is a very challenging issue to resolve, particularly around the level playing field ... Things are on a knife edge here and it is serious," he told national broadcaster RTE.

 

Since Britain formally left the EU on Jan. 31, negotiators have missed several deadlines for a deal with the world's largest trading bloc before a status quo transition period ends on Dec. 31.

 

EU negotiator Michel Barnier will brief EU countries' ambassadors to Brussels on the state of play early on Monday and talks are expected to continue through the day ahead of another check-in by Johnson and von der Leyen.

 

If there is no deal, a five-year Brexit divorce will end messily just as Britain and its former EU partners grapple with the severe economic cost of the COVID-19 pandemic.

 

BACK-UP VACCINE PLAN

Mairead McGuinness, Ireland's commissioner on the EU's executive, said the next 48 hours were "very crucial", but even if negotiators fail to reach an accord the two sides will still have to discuss their future relationship in the new year.

 

"So it doesn't go away: there has to be an agreement, there has to be a settlement," she told the Newstalk Radio podcast.

Even with a deal, there will be major disruption to the movement of goods and people because from new year's day Britain will sit outside the EU's single market and customs union.

 

There will be more elaborate checks at borders, leading to delays in supplies affecting a range of industries, particularly those that rely on just-in-time deliveries.

 

The Observer newspaper reported that, under UK government contingency plans, tens of millions of COVID-19 vaccine doses could be flown from Belgium by military aircraft to avoid delays at ports caused by Brexit.

 

The British government declined to comment on the report, but farming minister George Eustice told Sky News the end of the UK's transition period would not disrupt vaccine supplies.

 

"A huge amount of work has gone on to maintain the flow of goods at the border ... and we've also got contingency plans in place, including a government-procured ferry that's on standby and of course the option, should it be needed, to use air freight too," he said.

 

(Additional reporting by Conor Humphries in Dublin, Alistair Smout in London and Robin Emmott and Gabriela Baczynska in Brussels; Writing by John Chalmers; Editing by Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-12-07

 

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[sammieuk1]

On the knife edge of the oven ready better out than in deal to be completely correct ????

[Emdog]

Made me think of Heptones 70's reggae tune  lyrics

You're under my observation
And don't forget it
You're under my jurisdiction
And don't you bet it, girl, 'cause

I've got the handle, baby
You've got the blade
So you don't try to fight me
Girl, 'cause you'll need first aid
Yeah

 

[Hi from France]

So the Brexiteers government chooses access to the European energy market over some fish quota, not a big surprise considering the attractiveness of the offer made.. 

 

 

But "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" 

 

 

And even if there's a deal, the British government doesn't trust it can speedily import Covid-19 vaccine from Belgium just across the channel 

Quote

under UK government contingency plans, tens of millions of COVID-19 vaccine doses could be flown from Belgium by military aircraft to avoid delays at ports caused by Brexit

 

 

 

Now, there are two much bigger hurdles, the first being the UK access to the European market while undermining European standards with low pay or pollution 

Quote

The talks are now going to the wire on the so-called “ratchet clause” under which the UK government would have to follow EU environmental, social and labour standards as they develop over time or face tariffs on British exports.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/06/major-breakthrough-on-fishing-rights-brings-brexit-deal-closer

 

 

 

The second is the newly-acquired reputation of the Brits as liars, signing a treaty and then reneging 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Hi from France

[2530Ubon]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

The second is the newly-acquired reputation of the Brits as liars, signing a treaty and then reneging 

That's mostly because the British Prime Minister is actually an American. He was born and raised in New York, upper east side Manhattan. Similarily, Donald Trump, another famous liar, was born and raised in NY. Perhaps there's something in the water they drink over there. Boris only very recently renounced his American citizenship. All of the previous PM's (John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, David Cameron & Teresa May) denounced his behaviour as true Brits would do.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[Hi from France]

3 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

That's mostly because the British Prime Minister is actually an American. He was born and raised in New York, upper east side Manhattan. Similarily, Donald Trump, another famous liar, was born and raised in NY. Perhaps there's something in the water they drink over there. Boris only very recently renounced his American citizenship. All of the previous PM's (John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, David Cameron & Teresa May) denounced his behaviour as true Brits would do.

I have no doubts that the brits are by tradition honorable and true to their word, with the big exception of some Brexiteers. Some of them are active on this forum ????

[Laughing Gravy]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

The Guardian newspaper reported after talks resumed on Sunday that there had been "a major breakthrough" on the rights of European fleets to fish in UK waters, leaving only a wrestle over how closely Britain should hew to EU environmental, social and labour standards over time to ensure a level playing field.

 

A British government source said there had been no breakthrough on fishing rights on Sunday.

EU officials did not immediately comment on the report.

No surprise there the Guardian lying but it will still remain the bastion newspaper of the deluded, lefty remainers.

 

Boris should walk away and I have been saying that for a long time as the EU dos not want a deal with an independent UK.

 

One great thing for me regarding the whole referendum situation from 2015 onwards and the campaign is the awareness it has brought o the people. Those who didn't know what the EU was about or how they operate.

 

Now people are aware and those that i know are not impressed. the EU did a pretty good job of hiding its operation.

 

I have always said to people just watch yes Minister to get an idea of what British politics is like and the way the EU operate.

 

This classic clips just gives an insight.

[Hi from France]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Boris should walk away 

well, if you followed his career, Boris often promises one thing and then it turns out it is a lie, and before being a politician, he was sacked as a journalist for making up fake news

 

Do you trust him 100%?

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

well, if you followed his career, Boris often promises one thing and then it turns out it is a lie, and before being a politician, he was sacked as a journalist for making up fake news

 

Do you trust him 100%?

Yes we all know his career. I trust no politician and they all seem to lie. Why are you so concerned your not British. 

 

Why are you concerned about my trust in Boris. Do you trust your prime minister wherever that is.

[Hi from France]

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Yes we all know his career. I trust no politician and they all seem to lie. Why are you so concerned your not British. 

I'm concerned because having differences is one thing, but betraying your word is really another.

 

As you know, Merkel presiding the EU at the moment wants a deal now, Macron thinks the present deal is not equitable enough yet and wants to wait a few months to clarify the situation and put Boris into the actual Brexit/WTO situation,

 

....but sooner or later we'll have to make a deal.

 

 

 

but how do you sign a deal with a liar? Besides UK-EU differences, that's my concern.

 

 

[transam]

17 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

I have no doubts that the brits are by tradition honorable and true to their word, with the big exception of some Brexiteers. Some of them are active on this forum ????

Why do you and others keep calling the UK, Brexiteers. Brexit is done, finished.

The thread is about negotiations between the UK and EU, or should I say, the UK, France and Germany.... ....????

[transam]

17 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

well, if you followed his career, Boris often promises one thing and then it turns out it is a lie, and before being a politician, he was sacked as a journalist for making up fake news

 

Do you trust him 100%?

I bet you've got the glass on the wall recording of Boris and his bird having a ruck...????

[Hi from France]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

Why do you and others keep calling the UK, Brexiteers. Brexit is done, finished.

 

are you even aware there are Brexit negotiations going on?

 

The UK losing European membership is one thing, it's done indeed but the effect of this loss have been delayed until the first of January

 

so right now there is no effective brexit

 

 

 

(and even in 2021 brexit will be far from over, the present possible deal is so thin that negotiations will have to start again and go on for years)

[vinny41]

19 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

I'm concerned because having differences is one thing, but betraying your word is really another.

 

As you know, Merkel presiding the EU at the moment wants a deal now, Macron thinks the present deal is not equitable enough yet and wants to wait a few months to clarify the situation and put Boris into the actual Brexit/WTO situation,

 

....but sooner or later we'll have to make a deal.

 

 

 

but how do you sign a deal with a liar? Besides UK-EU differences, that's my concern.

 

 

equitable enough  is code for Macron thinks he can screw the UK for more

for most people if you don't trust the person your dealing with you simply walk away but we all know that both the EU and France are unable to walk away

[transam]

6 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

are you even aware there are Brexit negotiations going on?

 

The UK losing European membership is one thing, it's done indeed but the effect of this loss have been delayed until the first of January

 

so right now there is no effective brexit

 

 

 

(and even in 2021 brexit will be far from over, the present possible deal is so thin that negotiations will have to start again and go on for years)

You don't understand that we are out of the EU..?

Hmmmm, you do have some catching up to do, mon ami....????

[Hi from France]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

equitable enough  is code for Macron thinks he can screw the UK for more

seems reasonable enough

 

The present deal seems too advantageous for the UK 

 

Thus allowing some time for the UK to actually live the reality (as opposed to brexiteers promises of WTO paradise) can be useful. I think it would speed up repatriation of our automotive industry, with much needed jobs created.

 

Now, there is a range of opinions on this forum, I do not know yours but if you want a no-deal I have a good news: many europeans support you ????

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

seems reasonable enough

 

The present deal seems too advantageous for the UK 

 

Thus allowing some time for the UK to actually live the reality (as opposed to brexiteers promises of WTO paradise) can be useful. I think it would speed up repatriation of our automotive industry, with much needed jobs created.

 

Now, there is a range of opinions on this forum, I do not know yours but if you want a no-deal I have a good news: many europeans support you ????

I have seen this many times in life, you put property up for sale, someone makes an offer which you accept , transaction appears to progress then a couple of days before exchanging contracts, buyer wants a further 10-20% discount no reason given.

If your in a position that you have to sell its problematic if your not in that position you should see their faces when you decide to increase your asking price by the same 10-20% discount that they were trying to screw out of you

[Hi from France]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I have seen this many times in life, you put property up for sale, someone makes an offer which you accept , transaction appears to progress then a couple of days before exchanging contracts, buyer wants a further 10-20% discount no reason given.

I'm not sure you understand how bad it is to have the UK selling on our market undermining our own social and environmental standards. 

 

You can do whatever you want on your internal market, but in Europe it should be "our market our rules", is that not reasonable? I believe you call this sovereignty?

 

And it is not a last minute surprise, it has been a precondition since the very beginning 4 and a half years away. 

[Letseng]

46 minutes ago, transam said:

You don't understand that we are out of the EU..?

Hmmmm, you do have some catching up to do, mon ami....????

But at present all rules & priviledges are still in place. Nothing has changed. You only left on paper.

[stephenterry]

It's a human trait that people hate losing more than winning. One reason why fishing, representing 0.1% of UK economy is such a huge concern, particularly for Macron (French victory resulting in Treaty of Versailles.) 

And, IMO, sends a picture of two petulant children fighting over sweets. 

 

As for level playing fields, there's no such reality. Probably most developed countries have an edge that enables them to offer more competitive rates for goods and services. That's historical economics.

 

As for jurisdiction, the UK should be entitled, as a sovereign state, to seek the UN International Court of Justice's decision over any dispute with the EU, as should be the EU over any dispute with the UK.

 

Don't you just want to slap some sense into Barnier and Frost  - Johnson, Macron et al ???

 

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

I'm concerned because having differences is one thing, but betraying your word is really another.

You are being melodramatic. Betraying the world please.

 

58 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

(and even in 2021 brexit will be far from over, the present possible deal is so thin that negotiations will have to start again and go on for years)

Walking away is the best option I will be happy and it seems you will be.

 

Hopefully you and other EU countries can pay more into the EU. Also start by getting those who take out and give nothing back to pay.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

I'm concerned because having differences is one thing, but betraying your word is really another.

 

As you know, Merkel presiding the EU at the moment wants a deal now, Macron thinks the present deal is not equitable enough yet and wants to wait a few months to clarify the situation and put Boris into the actual Brexit/WTO situation,

 

....but sooner or later we'll have to make a deal.

 

 

 

but how do you sign a deal with a liar? Besides UK-EU differences, that's my concern.

 

 

Jeez man the whole of the EU is built on a lie and betrayal. Where have you been for the last 50 years.

[IgboChief]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

I have no doubts that the brits are by tradition honorable and true to their word

Perfidious Albion. Europeans agreed before the word "Europe" was established.

I am sure of course, that they did not do anything to deserve their centuries old reputation.

Edited December 7, 2020 by IgboChief

[Laughing Gravy]

36 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

I'm not sure you understand how bad it is to have the UK selling on our market undermining our own social and environmental standards. 

Make it sound like your a foreigner. My intuition says you are not.

[Hi from France]

46 minutes ago, IgboChief said:

Perfidious Albion.

as I said, in modern history, the previous prime british ministers have been quite honorable. These guys you could have differences with, but once something was agreed and signed, the signature of the UK had value.

 

Apparently for you all, Boris is really honest, and we should trust his word when he says he has no intention at all to compete on lower standards while keeping access to the European single market

 

.. but if you listen to the promise he is making at the same time to the ERG, he is not telling them the same things.

 

Now what promises should we believe? You tell me

 

 

for starters, do you consider he lied to the british people or not ?

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Hi from France

[vogie]

*Deleted post removed*

 

How you don't get suspended with remarks like that is truly mystifying. 

[IgboChief]

3 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Apparently for you all, Boris is honest, and we should trust his word

Uhm, either you are not French or you need to look up Perfidious Albion.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

How you don't get suspended with remarks like that is truly mystifying. 

Does the truth hurt so much? 

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

UK will never ever be independent but has to follow all the big economic blocs world wide as a little country tossed between powerful blocs if they want to trade with. 

And as EU is the most important trade partner UK have to respect EU laws. 

Even the most ignorant Brexiteers like you will feel the pain follow an idiotic PM. 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by vogie

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

UK will never ever be independent but has to follow all the big economic blocs world wide as a little country tossed between powerful blocs if they want to trade with. 

And as EU is the most important trade partner UK have to respect EU laws. 

Even the most ignorant Brexiteers like you will feel the pain follow an idiotic PM. 

 

 

now try to explain that to brexiteers, who are persuaded they have been "slaves" for 45 years, payed outrageous sums for EU membership, not to mention the see the EU is a resuscitation of the third Reich... 

 

 

It is a waste of time, all you can do is wait 10-20 years and trust the younger generation will prevail. 

 

...and if the UK is allowed to join again by then, the expectations on benefits and constraints will be clear from the start so that there is no misunderstanding ''You can't have your cake and eat it too''

 

.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Hi from France