Buying townhouse in Thai name.

[DrJack54]

So the plan is to buy townhouse in Bangkok for my Thai partner. I do not require any part or rights over the property which will be paid in cash, meaning no finance.

I understand fully the process in my country (AU) just no idea regarding Thailand.

Who do I approach to handle this legal transfer process.

Any advice welcome. In particular any personal experience that could direct me to someone to handle the conveyancing process.

Ta

[Natai Beach]

Just transfer the money over. Watch the sneaky Aussie banks if you are not using Transferwise. 
It sounds ridiculous but when they ask if you want to send AUD or THai baht over, make sure you say AUD. The Thai banks give a much better exchange rate. If you exchange it from AUD to Thai baht using the Aussie bank they will bend you over on the rate. 

Get a lawyer to assist at the land office who will check that the title deed is in order. Best to use a lawyer local to the land office area as they will have contacts in that particular land office.

Paying in cash makes it simple, your gf keeps the Chanote and it will record her name on the back of it.
 

If you plan on sending the money back to Aust you get a letter from the bank saying you transferred x amount of money over. This allows you to transfer the same amount back in the future without tax or hassles. You can’t do this though if you are transferring using Transferwise, only with a bank.

 

If you don’t 100% trust your girlfriends money management skills then take the Chanote from her. Money lenders charge 2-3% per month against chanotes, plus fees. It is too easy to borrow, but can lead to a quickly spiraling debt and she can lose the house. or you will have to bail her out, maybe paying for the same house twice, 
Two ways of doing that, called jumnong and kaifark. 
 

There is a transfer tax payable at the land office, sometimes the owner pays all, sometimes the buyer, often it is split 50/50. You girlfriend should already know who is paying what.

 

i think the rate is 3.25% of the declared amount. I have never seen anyone declare a full amount, everyone cheats this. Why waste money? 

[DrJack54]

Thankyou @Natai Beach Appreciate your detailed helpful reply. 

I will be using Transferwise to bring funds from Oz into my Thai bank account then pay owner. The transfer is 50/50 and your % gives me a good guide. Meeting the estate agent next week so will ask him about which land office and other related questions.

Ta.

 

[LukKrueng]

17 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Thankyou @Natai Beach Appreciate your detailed helpful reply. 

I will be using Transferwise to bring funds from Oz into my Thai bank account then pay owner. The transfer is 50/50 and your % gives me a good guide. Meeting the estate agent next week so will ask him about which land office and other related questions.

Ta.

 

Land office of the District where the property is located. No need lawyers for checking/ transferring title deeds. You should ask the estate agent for a copy of the deed, go to the relevant land office (can go by yourself or with your Thai partner). Show them your copy of the deed and they'll retrieve the official land office copy. They will tell you if the deed is mortgaged or has any legal problems pending. If it's all clear, on the day you finalise the deal you go there again with the current owner, pay the agreed amount, pay the official transfer fee and have your partner's name recorded as the new owner on the back side of the title deed. 

[DrJack54]

@LukKrueng that you. Your post shows how useful thaivisa can be. Feeling bit more confident now. Cheers.

[Natai Beach]

2 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

No need lawyers for checking/ transferring title deeds.

I agree technically, but disagree in reality. It is better to have a lawyer than rely on a “real estate agent“.

 

i have bought and sold 5 houses and two condos in Thailand since the 1990s.

I had problems once, and having the lawyer solved the problem quickly.  They are as cheap as chips in Thailand, better to be safe than sorry in my opinion, especially since the good doctor is in Australia. 
 

As in any country some people will cheat you given a chance. 

[gerrytraveller]

3 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Land office of the District where the property is located. No need lawyers for checking/ transferring title deeds. You should ask the estate agent for a copy of the deed, go to the relevant land office (can go by yourself or with your Thai partner). Show them your copy of the deed and they'll retrieve the official land office copy. They will tell you if the deed is mortgaged or has any legal problems pending. If it's all clear, on the day you finalise the deal you go there again with the current owner, pay the agreed amount, pay the official transfer fee and have your partner's name recorded as the new owner on the back side of the title deed. 

You are right about going to the land office and checking out the title... however on the day of transfer i would go in 30minutes earlier and check again..just in case.. 

The same in australia...

2nd Title search is done minutes before the transfer by conveyancing law..

Been there done that..

Retired now but I was one of those ""thieving untrustworthy sharks".. a real eastate agent.

 

[1FinickyOne]

I have made several purchases of land or property/homes and condos with my funds and in my wife's name... not a legal marriage...

 

Oftentimes they ask the source of the funds at the land office when we go for the chanote transfer. We tell them that I am the source of the funds and they then have me sign a form saying that I will not make a claim against the property...

 

I assume essentially saying it is a gift and my funds cannot be re-claimed by me... 

 

All of which is fine by me as I consider it a gift. It only takes a minute. 

[DrJack54]

58 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

I have made several purchases of land or property/homes and condos with my funds and in my wife's name... not a legal marriage...

 

Oftentimes they ask the source of the funds at the land office when we go for the chanote transfer. We tell them that I am the source of the funds and they then have me sign a form saying that I will not make a claim against the property...

 

I assume essentially saying it is a gift and my funds cannot be re-claimed by me... 

 

All of which is fine by me as I consider it a gift. It only takes a minute. 

Would you have an idea of the transfer costs.

I notice in some real estate adds it often states...."transfer 50/50"

When I read about transfers it seems a lot of the cost is applied to the seller.

Does the 50/50 refer to total transfer cost.

Would any readers have a stab at what I might be up for on say a 3million baht purchase.

[khunPer]

58 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Would you have an idea of the transfer costs.

I notice in some real estate adds it often states...."transfer 50/50"

When I read about transfers it seems a lot of the cost is applied to the seller.

Does the 50/50 refer to total transfer cost.

Would any readers have a stab at what I might be up for on say a 3million baht purchase.

Normally seller pays taxes and buyer pays transfer fees (might include stamps), but other can be agreed in the sales contract, for example that seller and buyer each pays 50 percent of transfer fee and stamp duty (which is a benefit).

 

Taxes are dependent of owner's use of the property, and length of ownership, so any part in taxes should be avoided. Tranfer fee is a fixed rate depending of sales price, or the land office's appraised price; should be whatever is highest, but some land offices are satisfied with using their appraised value (often lower than actual sales price).

 

There is a property sales tax/fee calculator HERE.

Expect 2.5 percent of the property price in transfer fee and stamp duty i.e. if 3 million baht in property value the tax and stamp duty could be 75,000 baht.

 

Normally a deposit is paid upon signing a sales agreement, the deposit could be 10 percent, or whatever is agreed.

 

The final balance payment takes place upon transfer of title deed in the land office. It can be made in cash or by cashier's cheque, but agree the payment method before meeting in the land office for doing the transfer. If sales price is higher than appraised price, and the land office use the appraised price, dont pay inside the office; i.e. not wise to be counted huge stacks of 1000-baht notes in millions, if the appraised price is a few hundred thousand...????

[DrJack54]

@khunPer Thanks a lot for the help and advice. Had really solid advice in this thread and it's much appreciated. 

[khunPer]

On 12/12/2020 at 5:17 PM, DrJack54 said:

Who do I approach to handle this legal transfer process.

Any advice welcome. In particular any personal experience that could direct me to someone to handle the conveyancing process.

You don't need a lawyer to do real estate transfer in Thailand, it's actually very easy. Just agree between buyer and seller – there is a standard contract for that purpose, which can be bought in paper shops – preferably sign it by head-of-village, if possible; in such case head-of-village would normally be paid a small fee for doing the paperwork and signing as witness. A deposit is normally paid, could be 100,000 baht of around 10 percent of the agreed sales price. A date for transfer is set in the sales contract, where buyer and seller meet at the land office, and the title deed is transferred.

 

There are two title deeds, one held by the owner, the other on file in the land office. On the back of both identical title deeds is the actual owner's name listed, which could be the last name if the land has been transferred. The title on the deed should say "Chanote", avoid any lower titles, as they might not be full ownership, however "Nor Sor Sarm"-title can be upgraded to Chanote. Any servitudes are also listed on the back, but a property cannot be transferred with outstanding debt, so no mortgage can be inherited. The title deep shall hopefully be free from any transferable servitude(s), which can include usufruct right or habitation right.

 

You can read more about title deeds HERE.

You can read more bout, and buy, sales sale/purchase agreement HERE.

You can read more about transfer fees and taxes HERE.

????

 

 

[LukKrueng]

9 hours ago, Natai Beach said:

I agree technically, but disagree in reality. It is better to have a lawyer than rely on a “real estate agent“.

 

i have bought and sold 5 houses and two condos in Thailand since the 1990s.

I had problems once, and having the lawyer solved the problem quickly.  They are as cheap as chips in Thailand, better to be safe than sorry in my opinion, especially since the good doctor is in Australia. 
 

As in any country some people will cheat you given a chance. 

 

What kind of problem could there be? It's a very simple process. Seller and buyer in front of the land office official. The official checks the deed and if it's all clear he fills a standard buy/ sell contract. Once that's done buyer and/ or seller go to the cashier to pay transfer fee and tax. Bring the receipt back to the official who then record the name of the buyer as the new owner on the back of the title deed as well as on the land office copy. Buyer gets the title deed and it's all done. 

 

8 hours ago, gerrytraveller said:

You are right about going to the land office and checking out the title... however on the day of transfer i would go in 30minutes earlier and check again..just in case.. 

The same in australia...

2nd Title search is done minutes before the transfer by conveyancing law..

Been there done that..

Retired now but I was one of those ""thieving untrustworthy sharks".. a real eastate agent.

 

If the property was mortgaged or incurred any legal action after the time you first checked it, it will be noted on the land office copy of the deed and they won't process the sale. Your initial checking of the deed is done at the same place and by the same officials that recored the actual sale

[brianthainess]

On 12/13/2020 at 12:02 AM, Natai Beach said:

It sounds ridiculous but when they ask if you want to send AUD or THai baht over, make sure you say AUD. The Thai banks give a much better exchange rate. If you exchange it from AUD to Thai baht using the Aussie bank they will bend you over on the rate. 

They also may send it to a holding bank before its sent to yours, where you get a lower ex-rate. It was only after the BKK bank helped me, I found this out, got on to the OZ bank, they told me i must put the message "Do Not Exchange Funds" even though it was sent in AUD. I now do this with any money transfers from any country.

[Natai Beach]

1 minute ago, brianthainess said:

They also may send it to a holding bank before its sent to yours, where you get a lower ex-rate. It was only after the BKK bank helped me, I found this out, got on to the OZ bank, they told me i must put the message "Do Not Exchange Funds" even though it was sent in AUD. I now do this with any money transfers from any country.

that is true. Happened to me also. 
 

transferwise really is superior in every way unless you need the document to say you brought xxx amount in which transferwise can not give.

[DrJack54]

Bit of an update. So looked at the townhouse today and agreed to purchase. Didn't haggle as I thought it was good price. The only discount was that owner agreed to cover all transfer costs, tax etc costs. In total approx 150k. It was to be split 50/50 but that was my "discount".

Later tonight will pass over 100k deposit.

So to my "new" question. What timeframe for final payment is typical in Thailand. 

In Oz the most common period is 60 days. I'm guessing much shorter in Thailand.  Any advice appreciated.

 

Update to an update. Seems owner expects settlement is 2 weeks. Bit awkward as am traveling for Xmas and countdown.

Edited December 15, 2020 by DrJack54

[DrJack54]

Bumping this to obtain advice about settlement at Land office which is in 2 weeks time. Bank cheque has been made out to owner. The owner has agreed to pay ALL transfer costs and taxes. The bank loan on the property was discharged by owner. So any advice on what I should check at land office regards title etc.

Also is there any evidence I should take along to show the money came from o/s. I made 2 transfers using Transferwise. 

I read somewhere that they may ask me to sign something that's basically states I have no future claims to the property etc.

Have heard about usufruct however not going to bother with that. Any advice appreciated.

[Peterw42]

5 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Bumping this to obtain advice about settlement at Land office which is in 2 weeks time. Bank cheque has been made out to owner. The owner has agreed to pay ALL transfer costs and taxes. The bank loan on the property was discharged by owner. So any advice on what I should check at land office regards title etc.

Also is there any evidence I should take along to show the money came from o/s. I made 2 transfers using Transferwise. 

I read somewhere that they may ask me to sign something that's basically states I have no future claims to the property etc.

Have heard about usufruct however not going to bother with that. Any advice appreciated.

 

You can literally find a property on a Monday and go to the land office on Tuesday, there is nothing that requires a wait or takes time.

The system works well as the sale wont go through if there is anything wrong like a mortgage still in place etc.

The land office wont transfer the ownership unless everything checks out.

No need to show the money came from OS unless you are buying a foreign quota condo in your name, nothing to sign unless you are married.

[donx]

14 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

 

nothing to sign unless you are married.

In my case, although I was married when my wife purchased land, I was told I wasn't needed and should wait with my kids at Tesco Lotus until the transaction was completed. My understanding of the situation was that my wife never updated her Thai ID to use her married name.