Laws regarding Army conscription for Thai born / Australian citizen

[Kenny202]

My son is 4 years old, long way from Army ballot but a friend of mine told me before that because he was an Australian citizen he could avoid conscription.

I can't remember exactly and no longer in contact with the person but from memory she said if my son received an Australian passport before he was 5 years old

he would be exempt. Does anyone know the story on this? 

[Kwasaki]

There's a lot more to it than from what you have been told by your so called friend.

There was a thread I remember here on TV about this I don't think you have anything to concern yourself about.

 

[ctxa]

Nope, it is a myth. Just like the one which goes by "Not speaking Thai automatically exempts you from conscription".... 

 

The only thing which dual citizens can't do, is becoming officers in the Thai Army later on. But it doesn't exempt them from anything else regarding military service, except the impossibility of becoming officers.

 

Dual citizens are not exempt from Army conscription, unless they meet any of the legitimate exemptions, which go as follows:

 

1. University students

2.Volunteering after graduation from university.

3. Being conscripted overseas.

4. In case the dual national moves to Thailand only after he is 30 years old.

 

However, keep in mind that immigration and the army don't talk to each other, or at least they do not anymore since the 90s. So if your kids happened to be overseas and then returned to Thailand without having fulfilled his conscription duty he wouldn't be arrested on arrival or anything like that!

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by ctxa

[Chicken George]

Here are the facts. My son at the moment has just finished his first year Officer Training. He has two more to go. Start at 16 finish at 19. You have to be

Bright and fit to get on it. It then excludes you from National service. He has two more years to go. Thats once a week. Organized with his school.. Now here is the link which explains everything.

https://www.thaicitizenship.com/thai-military-service/

Edited December 16, 2020 by Chicken George
Typo plus

[Chicken George]

Here are th facts.

 

https://www.thaicitizenship.com/thai-military-service/

[Techno Viking]

is the Thai born Australian citizen also a Thailand citizen ?

[Kenny202]

8 minutes ago, Techno Viking said:

is the Thai born Australian citizen also a Thailand citizen ?

 

That is a good question I think yes. After he was born I got him Australian citizenship with a lot of history etc and his birth certificate with me showing as the Dad. I assume at this point I am recognized as his legal father in Australia. So I was perplexed when I had to go and get legitimacy done through the courts to become his father in Thailand. My name on the Thai birth certificate but not married to his mum. So I assume if I didn't get legitimacy in Thailand, and we went to live in Australia, and for all intents and purposes we are residents of Australia, and come for a holiday to Thailand. Everything changes and I am no longer his real father in LOS? I don't get it

Edited December 16, 2020 by Kenny202

[kensawadee]

I live in the USA but i feel it is much similar to your situation  I will share....

I married my Thai wife (year 1996) and soon immigrated HER son at age 12. Y.O to the USA..... My wife gained US citizenship and since her son was not yet 18 years old he gained citizenship with her.....

Even though He became a USA citizen when she did..... By Thai law when he reached age (I forget 18 or 19) he had to register for Thai Military Conscription (and if he was out of Thailand but returned at any point later HE COULD BE POSSIBLY BE CONSCRIPTED AUTOMATICALLY)......

Since my wife had family who were involved with the Thai government.... my wife contacted her family relative to talk with local ARMY officials...... and ultimetely paid a 'graft'' amount of 10.000 or 20,000 (I forget) to some head man locally of the Military  to make our son's record appear as if he had been 'present and not selected' In the routine testing.... thereby The son was 'EXEMPIED from military duty..... For the rest of his life and could return to Thailand anytime in the future without concern.....

Yes.... Paying the 'grafters'................ BUT..... Money well spent..... since TIT (This Is Thailand)

[Kenny202]

3 minutes ago, kensawadee said:

I live in the USA but i feel it is much similar to your situation  I will share....

I married my Thai wife (year 1996) and soon immigrated HER son at age 12. Y.O to the USA..... My wife gained US citizenship and since her son was not yet 18 years old he gained citizenship with her.....

Even though He became a USA citizen when she did..... By Thai law when he reached age (I forget 18 or 19) he had to register for Thai Military Conscription (and if he was out of Thailand but returned at any point later HE COULD BE POSSIBLY BE CONSCRIPTED AUTOMATICALLY)......

Since my wife had family who were involved with the Thai government.... my wife contacted her family relative to talk with local ARMY officials...... and ultimetely paid a 'graft'' amount of 10.000 or 20,000 (I forget) to some head man locally of the Military  to make our son's record appear as if he had been 'present and not selected' In the routine testing.... thereby The son was 'EXEMPIED from military duty..... For the rest of his life and could return to Thailand anytime in the future without concern.....

Yes.... Paying the 'grafters'................ BUT..... Money well spent..... since TIT (This Is Thailand)

 

Yes I never whine about corruption. In our case can fast track many things. I do feel sorry for the people who actually live here though who will never get out from behind the 8 ball

[kensawadee]

7 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

 

Yes I never whine about corruption. In our case can fast track many things. I do feel sorry for the people who actually live here though who will never get out from behind the 8 ball

Yes .....I feel sorry for Thai folks...... THEY are 'my favorite charity'....... when I have a dollar to spare...... and I support a few of them directly...... rather than donating money to local USA charities I take my donations directly and 100% goes to the needy in poor Issan (Thailand's North-east),

There are no CEO, skimming their 'Personal expenses' out of my donations.... 100% goes to the needy.....

[KhaoYai]

You say dual citizenship?  Well, going strictly by the law, not what happens in reality, under Thai law your son will have to give up one of his citizenships when he gets to 20 (could be 18. could be 21 - can't remember which). Following the law he has to choose which nationailty he wants to keep - if that's Thai he will be liable to National Service.

 

However, in reality, in most cases the Thai authorities don't even know of the existence of such a child - at least in terms of public records for National Service.  Is he recorded on any Tabien Baan (house registration)?  I believe the lists of those liable for National Service are provided by the district office - if they have no record of your son, no National Service.

 

A friend of mine's son was on the Tabian Baan at his mother's house back in Thailand but was living in the UK.  When the time came the village head man (Pooyai Baan) simply informed the district office that the lad had emigrated and that was the end ot it.

 

Going by the letter of the law, the only people that are allowed to legally have Dual Citizenship beyond the age of majority are Thai women married to foreigners but in reality, the Thai authorities have absolutely no way of knowing how many passports someone holds.

 

 

[Kenny202]

1 minute ago, KhaoYai said:

You say dual citizenship?  Well, going strictly by the law, not what happens in reality, under Thai law your son will have to give up one of his citizenships when he gets to 20 (could be 18. could be 21 - can't remember which). Following the law he has to choose which nationailty he wants to keep - if that's Thai he will be liable to National Service.

 

However, in reality, in most cases the Thai authorities don't even know of the existence of such a child - at least in terms of public records for National Service.  Is he recorded on any Tabien Baan (house registration)?  I believe the lists of those liable for National Service are provided by the district office - if they have no record of your son, no National Service.

 

A friend of mine's son was on the Tabian Baan at his mother's house back in Thailand but was living in the UK.  When the time came the village head man (Pooyai Baan) simply informed the district office that the lad had emigrated and that was the end ot it.

 

Going by the letter of the law, the only people that are allowed to legally have Dual Citizenship beyond the age of majority are Thai women married to foreigners but in reality, the Thai authorities have absolutely no way of knowing how many passports someone holds.

 

 

 

He is born here and living here now so he is on a Tabien Baan. I don't know for sure but respectfully are you mixing up citizenship with passports? I thought they had to make a choice which passport they choose (although I have heard Thailand don't police this) at a certain age? I have never heard they had to waive citizenship one way or another

[maprao]

1 hour ago, kensawadee said:

I live in the USA but i feel it is much similar to your situation  I will share....

I married my Thai wife (year 1996) and soon immigrated HER son at age 12. Y.O to the USA..... My wife gained US citizenship and since her son was not yet 18 years old he gained citizenship with her.....

Even though He became a USA citizen when she did..... By Thai law when he reached age (I forget 18 or 19) he had to register for Thai Military Conscription (and if he was out of Thailand but returned at any point later HE COULD BE POSSIBLY BE CONSCRIPTED AUTOMATICALLY)......

Since my wife had family who were involved with the Thai government.... my wife contacted her family relative to talk with local ARMY officials...... and ultimetely paid a 'graft'' amount of 10.000 or 20,000 (I forget) to some head man locally of the Military  to make our son's record appear as if he had been 'present and not selected' In the routine testing.... thereby The son was 'EXEMPIED from military duty..... For the rest of his life and could return to Thailand anytime in the futu????re without concern.....

Yes.... Paying the 'grafters'................ BUT..... Money well spent..... since TIT (This Is Thailand)

 

Sometimes when people help you in this way if is best not to post it on a public forum. Just my two pence worth.

 

Especially one as popular as this one which is a rich source of information for Thai officials???? ????

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

 

He is born here and living here now so he is on a Tabien Baan. I don't know for sure but respectfully are you mixing up citizenship with passports? I thought they had to make a choice which passport they choose (although I have heard Thailand don't police this) at a certain age? I have never heard they had to waive citizenship one way or another

You have to have citizenship to get a passport. As he is living there and registered, his Australian citizenship will not protect him from the draft unless he renounces his Thai citizenship.

 

(Not getting at you in the statement below by the way ????)

 

All that I told you in my previous post is freely available on the internet - listed in the Thai laws. I didn't go into further detail because each time the citizen subject comes up, the same old people like to tell me how wrong I am - they never reply when I post the law.  It gets boring and when the laws are posted, they ignore them so these days I just say, do your own research.

 

Most people with 'dual citizenship' are never questioned and get away with it - in your case its different as your son is living there.  As has been stated though, there are ways and means of winning the lottery.

 

You may want to look at this from a different perspective though (caveat, I have no knowledge of the Thai army) - going by the state of our youth today, doing a couple of years in the armed forces may be a good thing. Certainly, I think a stint in the British army would do some a power of good and also open their eyes to future possibilities. That's the British army though - it wouldn't surpise me if Thai conscripts spend most of their time sweeping leaves.

Edited December 16, 2020 by KhaoYai

[SomchaiCNX]

4 hours ago, Chicken George said:

Here are the facts. My son at the moment has just finished his first year Officer Training. He has two more to go. Start at 16 finish at 19. You have to be

Bright and fit to get on it. It then excludes you from National service. He has two more years to go. Thats once a week. Organized with his school.. Now here is the link which explains everything.

https://www.thaicitizenship.com/thai-military-service/

Lor dor you mean? Yes , it counts as service. He only can become an officer when he continues extra courses during the school holidays while attending  university. The 3 years you mention is not an officer course.

Edited December 16, 2020 by SomchaiCNX

[seabass69]

8 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

You say dual citizenship?  Well, going strictly by the law, not what happens in reality, under Thai law your son will have to give up one of his citizenships when he gets to 20 (could be 18. could be 21 - can't remember which). Following the law he has to choose which nationailty he wants to keep - if that's Thai he will be liable to National Service.

 

However, in reality, in most cases the Thai authorities don't even know of the existence of such a child - at least in terms of public records for National Service.  Is he recorded on any Tabien Baan (house registration)?  I believe the lists of those liable for National Service are provided by the district office - if they have no record of your son, no National Service.

 

A friend of mine's son was on the Tabian Baan at his mother's house back in Thailand but was living in the UK.  When the time came the village head man (Pooyai Baan) simply informed the district office that the lad had emigrated and that was the end ot it.

 

Going by the letter of the law, the only people that are allowed to legally have Dual Citizenship beyond the age of majority are Thai women married to foreigners but in reality, the Thai authorities have absolutely no way of knowing how many passports someone holds.

 

 

What a load of nonsense 

[KhaoYai]

6 minutes ago, seabass69 said:

What a load of nonsense 

Really, then you might want to research the law. More specifically this one:

 

https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/506c08862.pdf

 

In particular I refer you to section 14.

 

I've read reports that it doesn't actually mean that a 20 year old has to choose citizenship and that there is no penalty for not doing so - none of those reports are official and appear to be an opinion. The above however is an official translation of the current law as ammended. I tend to believe what I read in an Act rather that someone's opinion.

 

I did say that in real life, there is rarely a problem but it is only right that the OP is presented with the facts - only he can decide what he wants to do.

 

Now that I've posted the law, I am absolutely certain that a 'lawyer' like yourself will say its wrong - happens every time.

[AgMech Cowboy]

My name is not, John Snow, but I "know nothing". Except, my son (Thai/American) took ROTC in high school in an International school in Bangkok and will not be subject to conscription. He got some document on completion that says he is exempt. 

[seabass69]

On 12/17/2020 at 6:36 AM, KhaoYai said:

Really, then you might want to research the law. More specifically this one:

 

https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/506c08862.pdf

 

In particular I refer you to section 14.

 

I've read reports that it doesn't actually mean that a 20 year old has to choose citizenship and that there is no penalty for not doing so - none of those reports are official and appear to be an opinion. The above however is an official translation of the current law as ammended. I tend to believe what I read in an Act rather that someone's opinion.

 

I did say that in real life, there is rarely a problem but it is only right that the OP is presented with the facts - only he can decide what he wants to do.

 

Now that I've posted the law, I am absolutely certain that a 'lawyer' like yourself will say its wrong - happens every time.

Section 14 “...may, if he desires to retain his other nationality, make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality...the minister shall grant permission...”

A far cry from having to renounce one nationality.

[KhaoYai]

3 hours ago, seabass69 said:

Section 14 “...may, if he desires to retain his other nationality, make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality...the minister shall grant permission...”

A far cry from having to renounce one nationality.

Which part of 'if he desires to retain his other nationality' do you fail to understand?  It doesn't say he may retain his other nationality, it means he has to renounce his Thai nationality in order keep his other one.  Get someone to read the Thai version to you, the intentions are somewhat clearer in the native language.

 

Please tell me which part of the Act says that it is in order to have dual nationality?

 

Read through the various sections, for example section 21 states that a child such as that of the OP,  'shall lose Thai nationality if he obtains an alien identification card under the law on alien registration'.

 

The entire act makes it clear that dual nationality is not allowed in law, except in the case of a Thai woman who marries a foreigner (that is covered in another act).

 

I repeat, I am quoting the law, in practice things are often different, for example, Alex Albon, the Formula 1 driver, races as a Thai under his Thai passport. He was born in London and also hold a British passport.  Either a 'blind eye' is turned or the law is ignored for some other reason but the fact is that under the law, he cannot hold both nationalities.  To the best of my knowledge, the Thai Nationality Act B.E. 2508, as amended and with the additions in the 2012 edition (posted in my previous post), is still current and lawful.  It is far from the 'nonsense' you claimed it was.

 

I am fully aware of the fact that people do hold 2 passports and indeed, I have friends that do.  However, if for whatever reason the sh&t hit the proverbial and someone was found to have 2 passports, how would they defend their position at court when the law is clearly against them?

 

The OP was enquiring if his son's Australian passport could be used to prevent him from doing national service.  Consider for a moment: a policeman's son, in the same village as the OP's, is listed for national service. The policeman knows the law and is miffed that his son has to do national service whilst the OP's son doesn't - what do you think would happen if he reports the matter? The OP's son could find himself either needing a visa to live in Thailand or giving up his Australian passport.

 

Yes, the above is unlikely but it is possible - under the law.  The OP made the enquiry asking about the law, I have merely quoted a law which is relevant to his position.  What he chooses to do about his son's position in the future is up to him - he now knows what the law says.

 

I would suggest that the matter of people holding 2 passports is one that is largely ignored but if it became known that people were using their foreign passport to avoid national service, that ignorance may end. If this law starts to be enforced that would have a particularly negative effect on a hell of a lot of people.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by KhaoYai