Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account, cites 'incitement of violence' risk

[Jeffr2]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually not. At least not in the USA. You are allowed pretty much absolute freedom of speech without fear of breaking any law.

Right, and face a billion dollar lawsuit like Trump's nut job lawyer?

 

Freedom of speech is a misnomer.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

Freedom of speech and expression, therefore, may not be recognized as being absolute, and common limitations or boundaries to freedom of speech relate to libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, food labeling, non-disclosure agreements, the right to privacy, dignity, the right to be forgotten, public security, and perjury. Justifications for such include the harm principle, proposed by John Stuart Mill in On Liberty, which suggests that "the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others."^[4]

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The reason it is important is that this kind of political de-platforming is going beyond Twitter .Facebook is banning prefectly peaceful groups based solely on their political beliefs. Amazon and Google are doing the same. Apple is delisting downloads to apps. Youtube is demonetizing and banning content based on politics.

Great, please do it. The Internet was so much better when people were having actual discussions about tech and science and cat memes. 
 

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

 The whole of the tech world is becoming authoritarian

Geez, look up those big words before you’re making a fool of yourself. 
 

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

while at the same time trying to enjoy status as a protected form of business. 

I wish they would be liable for all the hatred and fake news. The we may be able to get back to an Internet where people share cat memes. 

[GrandPapillon]

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

BLM is banned on Fox News, OAN, Breitbart, and I’m pretty sure on Parler and GAB as well, but that seems to be ok for you and your “2 way street”

not ok with me, but these are obscure little platform, doesn't have the importance or impact that Twitter and FB has

 

platforms that have been become central should have a higher standard of censorship, not the mobs rule we have here

 

I suspect Twitter actions are about "appeasing" the Democrats in light of future bi-partisan legislation. This is going to get really interesting in a few months.

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The reason it is important is that this kind of political de-platforming is going beyond Twitter .Facebook is banning prefectly peaceful groups based solely on their political beliefs. Amazon and Google are doing the same. Apple is delisting downloads to apps. Youtube is demonetizing and banning content based on politics.   The whole of the tech world is becoming authoritarian, while at the same time trying to enjoy status as a protected form of business. 

You'll have to provide credible links that prove this.  Otherwise, I call BS.

[Sujo]

8 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

absolutely, completely missed by our anti-Trump friends here,

 

if BLM was banned on Twitter, it would be an uproar from the usual suspects about Democracy, freedom of speech etc...

 

it's a 2 way street, can't ask for one without the other, like it's being demonstrated by anti-Trump crowd, completely missing the point about the banning.

So you prefer communism to capitalism. 

 

You completely miss the point. If you start a similar site you can decide who is allowed. Or would you prefer the govt to tell you what you can do.

[Jeffr2]

So let's see.  How many violations of free speech have Trump and his enablers been guilty of?

 

https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/about/faq/which-types-of-speech-are-not-protected-by-the-first-amendment/

 

Which types of speech are not protected by the First Amendment?

Although different scholars view unprotected speech in different ways, there are basically nine categories:

• Obscenity
• Fighting words
• Defamation (including libel and slander)
• Child pornography
• Perjury
• Blackmail
• Incitement to imminent lawless action
• True threats
• Solicitations to commit crimes

Some experts also would add treason, if committed verbally, to that list. Plagiarism of copyrighted material is also not protected.

[Sujo]

2 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

not ok with me, but these are obscure little platform, doesn't have the importance or impact that Twitter and FB has

 

platforms that have been become central should have a higher standard of censorship, not the mobs rule we have here

 

I suspect Twitter actions are about "appeasing" the Democrats in light of future bi-partisan legislation. This is going to get really interesting in a few months.

It does have a higher level of censorship. If you said the things trump has been saying you would have been banned years ago. His tweets were allowed only because of the office he holds.

 

In a delightful twist he is now banned because of the office he holds.

 

Im sure he wont struggle, he does have a press secretary that can preach to an international audience at any time.

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

You'll have to provide credible links that prove this.  Otherwise, I call BS.

Easy example, the group "Walk Away", which encouraged Democrats to change to Republican. Not violent, not hateful, just a Facebook group that shared testimonial from people who switched affiliation. A group with a half million members, now gone.

[GrandPapillon]

1 minute ago, Sujo said:

It does have a higher level of censorship. If you said the things trump has been saying you would have been banned years ago. His tweets were allowed only because of the office he holds.

 

In a delightful twist he is now banned because of the office he holds.

 

Im sure he wont struggle, he does have a press secretary that can preach to an international audience at any time.

You are giving intentions and highly interpreting words of Trump on Twitter because of your bias,

 

far worse things are being said on Twitter, and they never take such actions, even with documented complains etc...

 

Trump again is showing "what's wrong with the system" and if it takes "his sacrifice" to do this, the better for his supporters, and will create a bigger hero and savior than he is already.

[watso63]

Facebook, Twitter, Google and Amazon, the new book burning Nazi's????

[welovesundaysatspace]

11 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

not ok with me, but these are obscure little platform, doesn't have the importance or impact that Twitter and FB has

Fox News isn’t an “obscure little platform” but maybe you clarify that threshold under which a medium qualifies as “obscure little platform” that isn’t obliged to publish every nonsense from everyone and who regulates that threshold. 
 

 

[GrandPapillon]

1 minute ago, watso63 said:

Facebook, Twitter, Google and Amazon, the new book burning Nazi's????

it does feel that way,

 

I am glad they jumped the shark, just before upcoming legislation that needs to address those issues

 

Amazon can shutdown any viable business just because they own the "cloud world"

 

it needs to stop, and we can thank Trump for exposing them

 

they were fine with his tweets for years when he was POTUS, now they go after him on a false pretense, that just says a lot about those "digital" platforms. They act like a private army  ????

[Jeffr2]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Easy example, the group "Walk Away", which encouraged Democrats to change to Republican. Not violent, not hateful, just a Facebook group that shared testimonial from people who switched affiliation. A group with a half million members, now gone.

You really need a better source for your news.  Stunning you fall for this.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WalkAway_campaign#Controversy

 

Quote

 

The website Hamilton 68, which tracks Russia's interference on U.S. elections, reported that WalkAway was "connected to Kremlin-linked Russian bots to manipulate voters into thinking the movement was more popular and active that it actually was."

 

ThinkProgress characterized the WalkAway campaign as "a grifting operation," noting efforts by the organizers to sell dinner packages priced in the hundreds of dollars to march attendees.

 

The shutdown came in the wake of the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol, when Facebook and other social media platforms increased their enforcement of terms of service that ban the incitement of violence.

 

 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Easy example, the group "Walk Away", which encouraged Democrats to change to Republican. Not violent, not hateful, just a Facebook group that shared testimonial from people who switched affiliation. A group with a half million members, now gone.

Well, the shutdown came after the Capitol riots. Somehow, I doubt that comments on WalkAway were all that restrained. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

16 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

...and thank God for it.  People forget that the speech that needs protecting the most is the speech of the unpopular, the deplorable, the powerless, the detestable.  Who wants the government climbing into our heads and thoughts trying to regulate our very souls?

 

Oh, I’m pretty sure the kiddy fiddlers and ISIS are clapping their hands to this. 

[Opl]

3 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

You are giving intentions and highly interpreting words of Trump on Twitter because of your bias,

 

far worse things are being said on Twitter, and they never take such actions, even with documented complains etc...

 

Trump again is showing "what's wrong with the system" and if it takes "his sacrifice" to do this, the better for his supporters, and will create a bigger hero and savior than he is already.

Trump has been given a pass by just occupying the position of POTUS. It's over now. 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, GrandPapillon said:

it does feel that way,

 

I am glad they jumped the shark, just before upcoming legislation that needs to address those issues

 

Amazon can shutdown any viable business just because they own the "cloud world"

 

it needs to stop, and we can thank Trump for exposing them

 

they were fine with his tweets for years when he was POTUS, now they go after him on a false pretense, that just says a lot about those "digital" platforms. They act like a private army  ????

The reason they were fine with his tweets is that Trump showed no reluctance to use the power of the Presidency to go after those who got in his way.

[welovesundaysatspace]

9 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

far worse things are being said on Twitter, and they never take such actions, even with documented complains etc...

Does that also mean you support, for example, a kiddy fiddler based on the grounds that other kiddy fiddlers before him got away with it? Or only when it serves your agenda? 
 

9 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

Trump again is showing "what's wrong with the system"

“what’s wrong” being himself and his Neanderthals. 
 

 

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

You really need a better source for your news.  Stunning you fall for this.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WalkAway_campaign#Controversy

 

 

Using "Think Progress" as a source.... 

 

In any case, no evidence that the group is violent or dangerous or deserves banning.

[placeholder]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Using "Think Progress" as a source.... 

 

In any case, no evidence that the group is violent or dangerous or deserves banning.

Well, since we can't see that comments that allegedly got it banned, I guess we'll have to take your word for it.

[Hanaguma]

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Oh, I’m pretty sure the kiddy fiddlers and ISIS are clapping their hands to this. 

...yes, I am sure they are /s.

 

Nice way to deliberately miss the point though.

[welovesundaysatspace]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

...yes, I am sure they are /s.

 

Nice way to deliberately miss the point though.

Wasn’t your point to advocate free speech without subject to any laws, rules and boundaries whatsoever? 

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, since we can't see that comments that allegedly got it banned, I guess we'll have to take your word for it.

...or you could check out their website

 

https://www.walkawaycampaign.com/

 

...and judge for yourself.  You may not agree with them, but do you see anything advocating violence?

 

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Using "Think Progress" as a source.... 

 

In any case, no evidence that the group is violent or dangerous or deserves banning.

What?  I just showed you and you still don't get it.  FB doesn't ban groups for holding prayer sessions!

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Wasn’t your point to advocate free speech without subject to any laws, rules and boundaries whatsoever? 

...and there goes the point again.

 

Nobody advocates for that (that I am aware of). However, limits on speech must be extremely rare and exceptional.  Certainly not merely unpopular opinion.

[GrandPapillon]

17 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The reason they were fine with his tweets is that Trump showed no reluctance to use the power of the Presidency to go after those who got in his way.

maybe, so if Twitter had any courage, they should have shutdown that account long ago,

 

I bet the media uproar, and the mobs rule would have forced Twitter to "unban" his account

 

that's exactly my point, they act like a dominating private army, like they "own" the cloud, and have no principles, not even following their own abusive EULA.

 

I was a bit uncomfortable with the upcoming legislation on EULA, but now I see how it's necessary, they jumped the shark. Trump is just the prop.

Edited January 12, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, GrandPapillon said:

maybe, so if Twitter had any courage, they should have shutdown that account long ago,

 

I bet the media uproar, and the mobs rule would have forced Twitter to "unban" his account

 

that's exactly my point, they act like a dominating private army, like they "own" the cloud

 

I was a bit uncomfortable with the upcoming legislation, but now I see how it's necessary, they jumped the shark. Trump is just the prop.

Got your tinfoil hat on yet?

[GrandPapillon]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

...and there goes the point again.

 

Nobody advocates for that (that I am aware of). However, limits on speech must be extremely rare and exceptional.  Certainly not merely unpopular opinion.

don't try logic and principles with people that have limited capacity to understand them, they will always revert to mob rule and ordinary authoritarian tendency ????

 

[GrandPapillon]

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Got your tinfoil hat on yet?

oh I see, it's tinfoil theory to say that Twitter acted unilaterally without any principle? ????

 

Hello reality ????

Edited January 12, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

...and there goes the point again.

 

Nobody advocates for that (that I am aware of). However, limits on speech must be extremely rare and exceptional.

So your point is that defamation and incitement to commit crimes isn’t “exceptional” enough, so the first amendment rights of Twitter may be violated by the government?