Anyone know any properly qualified Electricians Chiang Rai area ?

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

I'm about a 20 minutes drive from you, so I could come and take a look at it for a cold beer. You can read through my posts to know I know what I'm doing. Problem is, I guarantee you won't like what I have to say and I WILL find endless problems and condemn the system. As Crossy pointed out, RCD/RCBOs have been legal requirement on all new installs for years, so your electrician is incompetent, a thief, or both. I also hate those piece of $%!t Chang CUs, the case is thinner than a coke can. I could also invite you over to our business to take a look at what a pro job looks like.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by NilSS

[Tuvoc]

7 hours ago, NilSS said:

I'm about a 20 minutes drive from you, so I could come and take a look at it for a cold beer. You can read through my posts to know I know what I'm doing. Problem is, I guarantee you won't like what I have to say and I WILL find endless problems and condemn the system. As Crossy pointed out, RCD/RCBOs have been legal requirement on all new installs for years, so your electrician is incompetent, a thief, or both. I also hate those piece of $%!t Chang CUs, the case is thinner than a coke can. I could also invite you over to our business to take a look at what a pro job looks like.

 

 

Well my house in the UK had no RCD according to the electrician when I had it inspected, and a plastic consumer unit, and wood boxes behind some of the light switches, all 100% fully legal when installed.  Wiring probably 25+ years old in places. Must be hundreds of thousands of houses in the UK like that,  no doubt you would find endless problems and condemn  those as well  !!  Yet they go on year after year quite happily, indeed we were there 12 years with no issues whatsoever. 

 

Anyway we will be building a new wooden house in Chiang Saen later in the year and unlike this (concrete) house I should be here for at least some of the build, so I will do my utmost to make sure the electrical side is totally safe, legal, and complies with the best standards. Don't want it burning down !!  But it will be difficult with the language etc and finding people to do the job properly. 

 

For the house here in Mae Chan, I'd simply want all the sockets tested and connected to earth (some don't have it) and a couple have reversed wiring. That is good enough I think. If we can find the right person for the Chiang Saen build, they could also do remedial work on the Mae Chan house.

 

I'd certainly be interested in taking a look at your business installation.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Tuvoc

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

Well my house in the UK had no RCD according to the electrician when I had it inspected, and a plastic consumer unit, and wood boxes behind some of the light switches, all 100% fully legal when installed.

Just because it was fully legal when installed doesn’t make it safe or sensible.

My first car did not have seatbelt, airbags, crumple zones and many other features that are standard today. That it was completely legal doesn’t make it as safe or survivable as today’s cars. The analogy is exactly similar. Don’t have an accident you are safe.

[Tuvoc]

Yes understood. Regulations are tightened all the time, in terms of the UK house example, they were deemed safe when installed and are still safe. Thousands of families live in them. Just not quite as safe as a new build today.

 

I recall many years ago when looking at a flat to buy, the survey report said the roof did not meet current standards. But it met standards when it was built. When I queried what the practical effect of that was, he just shrugged his shoulders and said not to worry about it, but he had to point it out.

 

Don't get me wrong, if I could find a decent electrician to check all the sockets and fit RCD/RCBO to the consumer unit I'd do it, but you know the saying, all I'd get is "main-pen-rai", is OK. From my wife as well no doubt, after all it works, she would see it as a waste of money. But I'm paying for it  from earnings so she wouldn't object.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Tuvoc

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

On 2/24/2021 at 8:12 AM, Tuvoc said:

 

 

 

I'd certainly be interested in taking a look at your business installation.

 

OK I'll blast you a PM. We're just the other side of the police checkpoint south of Mae Chan.
You will never find a competent electrician locally. Give up, unless you can accept reversed LN everywhere is mai pben arai and that it's safe to ignore regulations because the lights come on. If you can find the electrical contractors that fit out departments stores and malls, they are competent but you will pay ฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿฿

About changing regulations and what was previously acceptable. They regulations change BECAUSE they were previously not fit for purpose. The regulations as they stand in Thailand are fine, there is just no enforcement. Thailand essentially copied the Australian electrical system word for word.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by NilSS

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, NilSS said:

The regulations as they stand in Thailand are fine, there is just no enforcement. Thailand essentially copied the Australian electrical system word for word.

 

Then they throw in NEC colour coding (Black, White, Green) and NEC style N-E linking (same principle as Oz just a different method) along with US type outlets, all adds to the fun.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

and NEC style N-E linking (same principle as Oz just a different method) 

 

About that, did you notice the OPs CU is installed as a TT system? ????

That would be fine, if there was RCD or an RCBO (which MUST be double pole isolation), but there is not. This system is already dangerously unsafe and the installer is grossly incompetent. I know it's not what the OP wants to hear, but it is what it is. I'll bet everything's twisted together with vinyl tape in the roof with bootleg ground to the building's rebar. I've seen it a thousand times, there's just no point in trying to argue with them, they're clueless.

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by NilSS

[Crossy]

8 hours ago, NilSS said:

About that, did you notice the OPs CU is installed as a TT system?

 

Yup, and noted the absence of an RCBO in my first response to the lid-off photos.

 

I'm not sure I would condem as "dangerous" it's certainly unsafe and needs improvement. If it wasn't a new install it would be classed as perfectly normal here.

 

Our OP needs a decent sparks, maybe after you meet up he'll take you up on the cold beer offer.

 

[Tuvoc]

On 2/25/2021 at 10:22 PM, Crossy said:

 

Yup, and noted the absence of an RCBO in my first response to the lid-off photos.

 

I'm not sure I would condemn as "dangerous" it's certainly unsafe and needs improvement. If it wasn't a new install it would be classed as perfectly normal here.

 

Our OP needs a decent sparks, maybe after you meet up he'll take you up on the cold beer offer.

 

 

It is a 2 year old installation. Well, I need someone to come and look, tell me what should be done, who could then quote for the various bits and could then do it.

 

Anyway, lack of RCD doesn't worry me. As I said, our house in the UK that we lived in for 12 years had no RCD and tens of thousands of older houses are no doubt the same. I had the electrics checked when we bought it, and it was raised as something we might might consider getting done as it would improve safety, but it certainly wasn't considered necessary, dangerous or unsafe. 3 or 4 times over the years when cutting the hedge I cut through the power cable. It tripped the relevant  circuit breaker or switch whatever you call it,  which then just had to be turned back on, no other adverse effects. If fitting an RCD or RCBO is an easy job I'd get that done though for sure. Sounds like it is a simple job.

 

The Chang CU unit itself is solid and chunky, doesn't see flimsy to me.

 

At a minimum what I'd like is for every single socket to be earthed. Most are but for example the sockets in the bedroom aren't. Why ? God knows. Did they run out of the right cable to run from the consumer unit ? Can't imagine it is just sitting there behind the socket unconnected surely, that would make no sense. Possibly a local electrician could handle that. Funny thing is lots of appliances here are just two-plug and I don't understand that. The big American-style LG fridge freezer for example has a two-prong plug. TV also. So they don't need an earth.

[actonion]

The only qualified electrician i know of in Thailand "was" my 

[actonion]

The only qualified Thai Electrician that i knew was my Thai brother inlaw  who worked for the Thai Electric company, he got Electrocuted  and died while working  up a Telegraph pole...so much for being qualified

[Tuvoc]

27 minutes ago, actonion said:

The only qualified Thai Electrician that i knew was my Thai brother inlaw  who worked for the Thai Electric company, he got Electrocuted  and died while working  up a Telegraph pole...so much for being qualified

 

Sorry to hear that, accidents do happen unfortunately.

[scorecard]

On 2/7/2021 at 11:16 PM, Tuvoc said:

 

It arrived. I've plugged it into two recessed sockets, which were part of the original build, and I get one red light which according to the leaflet means "OPEN GROUND". The voltage is 195V and 50 Hz.

 

Another socket which was added later (cable down from the ceiling and it juts out from the wall) and it shows all 3 lights and 205V.

For the experts:  Just for clarity what does "OPEN GROUND" mean?

[Tuvoc]

 

I found this

 

Understanding Open Grounds and Options for Repair | Scribeware | Home Inspection Report Software (getscribeware.com)

 

It is complicated so the experts had better chime in here.

 

But also it seems that lack of an earth connection on sockets has another fix:

 

GFCI Receptacle vs GFCI Circuit Breaker: What's the Difference? (thespruce.com)

 

So rather than getting the sockets fixed where there is no earth wire and that would involve re-wiring,, there is an alternative solution in the consumer unit, GFI circuit breakers ? Wonder if I already have those ?

 

[actonion]

2 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

 

Sorry to hear that, accidents do happen unfortunately.

Thank you, yes they do, more so, if you've had a few beers

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

On 3/1/2021 at 8:58 AM, Tuvoc said:

 

Anyway, lack of RCD doesn't worry me. As I said, our house in the UK that we lived in for 12 years had no RCD and tens of thousands of older houses are no doubt the same. I had the electrics checked when we bought it, and it was raised as something we might might consider getting done as it would improve safety, but it certainly wasn't considered necessary, dangerous or unsafe. 3 or 4 times over the years when cutting the hedge I cut through the power cable. It tripped the relevant  circuit breaker or switch whatever you call it,  which then just had to be turned back on, no other adverse effects

 

As I keep trying to hammer into anyone I work with, MCBs are to protect cables, RCDs are to protect lives. Your body will happily take the 5 or 10 amps it needs to expire without tripping an MCB, and take anyone that tries to save you along too, leading to my next comment. . .

 

On 3/1/2021 at 9:42 AM, Tuvoc said:

 

Sorry to hear that, accidents do happen unfortunately.

 

You don't seem to accept why the regulations change, or that reducing your exposure to risk is a good thing, and inexpensive to implement. I'm interested to help you as you're so nearby (as a courtesy) , but I haven't PM'd you yet because I suspect I'd be irritated by your reluctance to take on board what's being said to you.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by NilSS

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, NilSS said:

Your body will happily take the 5 or 10 amps it needs to expire

Just a point of correction, the current that can kill is far less than 5 amps at 220V if you manage to go hand to hand and absolutely a MCB is zero protection to squishy beings.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

Sure, I'm just using those figures because you won't find an MCB that opens at any less than 6 amps.

[Tuvoc]

4 hours ago, NilSS said:

I'm interested to help you as you're so nearby (as a courtesy) , but I haven't PM'd you yet because I suspect I'd be irritated by your reluctance to take on board what's being said to you.

 

 

I'm also very interested, but I'm pretty sure when I mention it to my wife she will simply veto anything being done, because everything works and as a result she won't want to spend any money. So I think my hands are tied. If it was me I'd have someone here in a flash to get everything up to standard.

 

The actual power supply here is rubbish. The microwave wouldn't work earlier, the air-conditioning slowed down and a couple of the lights started flashing.  I put the socket tester in and it was 162V for probably half an hour,  then up to 170V for a while and now finally back up to 205V. Yesterday the power in the neighbourhood was off for 7 hours, the day before for 4 hours, and one day last week 3 hours. Don't know what is going on in the area, you normally get the odd cut from time to time but nothing like that.

 

Probably best I can do is try and make sure the new build in Chiang Saen is done properly. We won't spend very much time in Mae Chan after that, her dad will stay here. The company doing the new build are from Chonburi and will use their own staff and contractors, and they seem very professional. But almost no English. I'll need to figure out a way of trying to make sure it is done properly.

 

 

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

Ahh, the age old WAF excuse. Maybe paint the RCBO pink and make it glitter in the sunlight?

[Crossy]

7 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

I'll need to figure out a way of trying to make sure it is done properly.

 

Always a battle.

 

You could start with this PEA document Groundwire Mk2 book-Manual.pdf which shows how it should be done to get through the inspection. Any additional safety you add such as individual RCBOs are up to you of course.

 

This thread may be useful too https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/975714-important-information-for-new-electrical-supplies-building-a-home-read-this/

 

The important drawing with translations.

 

[Tuvoc]

Thank you. that is really helpful.

[sead]

On 2/5/2021 at 6:25 AM, Crossy said:

Get one of these https://www.lazada.co.th/products/i316566794-s634644285.html?urlFlag=true&mp=1

 

 

Ty. Just ordered one. Installing electricity in my house and a good way to check if hes cheating