Stickman

[Prakanong]

" I can’t recall seeing anything from the time I started reading his column in 2004 that even remotely suggests he is sampling."

As you can see from some of my postings I am no Stick fan but I have to agree with you here.

I also agree from items (Gossip) as well that nobody has ever mentioned him "Sampling" recently and I am sure they would love to be able to point it out if he was - remember he did get married a few years ago too - 2003?

In fact given some of his writing and other factors I reckon he has not "sampled" in bar's for quite some time - would not pay is my view and arranging dates on the www through chat rooms and the like is closer to the mark before his marriage.

There is the famous story about how a katoey turned up to meet him after one of these internet trysts was made.

[funfun]

notstickman is still going as well.

That Golt guys a complete tw@t. This is from his latest weekly.

As most of you know, Songkran just passed. Here I am this year doling out some Songkran spirit. Part of my time is spent perched up near my office and dousing the unsuspecting passer by. A friend caught me in the act this year.

What an idiot.

Now I know i'm an old queen who likes to moan but, well, he'd have been better off cleaning his windows with that water, did you see them, fil,fe get, and he hasnt got any curtains, his t-shirts been on his back for a week i'll bet, is there any fashion police over here????

[WaiWai]

It is an open secret that teachers often run rings of young ladies that put themselves through school with the help of generous older gentleman.

But citing the unethical behaviour of others doesn't offer a justification for anything an individual does. Or does it ?

Edited May 22, 2007 by WaiWai

[John K]

It is an open secret that teachers often run rings of young ladies that put themselves through school with the help of generous older gentleman.

But citing the unethical behaviour of others doesn't offer a justification for anything an individual does. Or does it ?

Borrowed from a thread in the news clipping section.

April 22, 2007:

In Samut Sakorn, a sexy mor lam performance at an ordination ceremony once again raises the ire of Culture Watch Center director Ladda Tansupachai. Dancers strip off their clothes and reveal their private parts during the show, which is captured on film by members of the audience. According to Ladda, the organizer of the show has an office in Samut Songkram and charges B60,000-100,000 per performance. She also claims that influential figures, some of them well-respected men in the community, gave their support to this crew.

What this says is everyone is different and has different views of what type of entertainment they enjoy. Consider what is ethical and moral and you will never please everyone. As for ethics you have consenting adults. Consider the vast majority of the women who work in the nightlife venues are women who have children fathered by Thai men who have more or less abandoned them.

As you can see this can get into a huge debate with several sides and reasons. Roll in the lack of a social structure that provides government financial support for single mothers and you got nearly the whole Thai culture debate going on. So is this what some may call immoral behavior compensating for other immoral behavior? Does a double negative make a positive? At least it does in English.

All stickman does is report on happenings the hood and where you can get a good deal on a cold beer. I hardly see a problem with that.

[Prakanong]

"All stickman does is report on happenings the hood and where you can get a good deal on a cold beer. I hardly see a problem with that."

Its a bit more than that and he writes advertorials and promotes brothels such as the one run down soi 7/1 while being a teacher - a position with trust, responsibility and a whole lot of other requirements.

If he had been a bar owner, a shoe shiner etc not much would have been said except for ripping apart some of his blatant mistakes.

As he is a teacher, a person in a position of trust, just like certain health care workers, policemen etc it does make a difference.

As I have said before - if the revenue's quoted etc why the hel_l he did not leave his 60k a month teaching job, which he obviously does not see as long term and he does not seem to enjoy it, to go all out for the www site where he could have increased revenue streams etc.

[Jimjim]

Its a bit more than that and he writes advertorials and promotes brothels such as the one run down soi 7/1 while being a teacher - a position with trust, responsibility and a whole lot of other requirements.

But who is really caring about that in Thailand?

As an example of what can go on in Thai schools, when I worked at a Thai school the principal was quite giddy to take me to his favorite "karaoke" to get a "massage". I obliged him but sang the night away while he got his massage. All the male teachers knew where we were going and had no problem with it. He gave a report to them the next day.

As long as Stickman doesn't bring it into the classroom it's on his own time.

[sriracha john]

Somehow I don't see the Gallivanting Reporter For Soi Cowboy fitting in during this ceremony as he betrays the entire basis for its occurrence:

Wai Kru ceremony

http://www.sriwittayapaknam.ac.th/waikru.html

[Prakanong]

Its a bit more than that and he writes advertorials and promotes brothels such as the one run down soi 7/1 while being a teacher - a position with trust, responsibility and a whole lot of other requirements.

But who is really caring about that in Thailand?

As an example of what can go on in Thai schools, when I worked at a Thai school the principal was quite giddy to take me to his favorite "karaoke" to get a "massage". I obliged him but sang the night away while he got his massage. All the male teachers knew where we were going and had no problem with it. He gave a report to them the next day.

As long as Stickman doesn't bring it into the classroom it's on his own time.

I do not know what type of school he teaches in but I bet some parents at an International school would object to teachers of their children doing what Stick does?

Is it not in some of their contracts they can not go to the bar's etc or is that a myth?

"As long as Stickman doesn't bring it into the classroom it's on his own time."

This debate could go on all day and we could also compare what would be seen as his own business in a developed country and what is seen so in Thailand.

There is a line though where what you do in your private life does cross into the professional. That line is easier to cross in some professions/careers than others.

Even in jobs where there is no contact with children etc if it was known you were mongering around bar's less than discreetly, promoting bar's where girls were available or even less salubrious places like knocking shops it would not be seen as a good career move.

[John K]

I am not familiar with any brothels on 7/1. However I can tell you that the bars don’t get involved in whatever agreements their employees have with patrons. The bars provided entertainment and assorted drinks both with and without alcohol.

I can see what you are saying about teaching and reporting on nightlife. I guess it all comes down to community standards. If it were in the states Stickman would have been long gone from the schools. But seeing this is not the states and the community standards are not the same, I think he is fine. On the other end of the spectrum look at the extremes of some Muslim communities as to what is acceptable.... I should not need to clarify that one.

[Prakanong]

"I am not familiar with any brothels on 7/1. However I can tell you that the bars don’t get involved in whatever agreements their employees have with patrons. The bars provided entertainment and assorted drinks both with and without alcohol."

Well they try to call it a club but most call a spade a spade so its a brothel ;-)

As for your bit after that bwhaaaaaaaa - come on if you are serious in that statement ;-))

Wrong place to talk about it here but the bar's do certainly get involved and you know it fine well my dear chap.

Even recent writings from Stick himself talk openly about it ie fines for after work meetings and giving out mobile numbers.

Do you not read the site you pay money to advertise on?

[A_Traveller]

I am not familiar with any brothels on 7/1. However I can tell you that the bars don’t get involved in whatever agreements their employees have with patrons. The bars provided entertainment and assorted drinks both with and without alcohol.

I can see what you are saying about teaching and reporting on nightlife. I guess it all comes down to community standards. If it were in the states Stickman would have been long gone from the schools. But seeing this is not the states and the community standards are not the same, I think he is fine. On the other end of the spectrum look at the extremes of some Muslim communities as to what is acceptable.... I should not need to clarify that one.

You must be the only internet denizen who is not, given the saturation of bandwidth during the E*** C*** promotional campaign

bars don’t get involved

I had to have treatment from Big Pharma for the bruises sustained by falling off my chair and striking the desk with my jaw on my way down. Do you go out at night per chance?

Curiously enough, in my view, the majority of Thai citizens who are teachers would view Stick's activities with grave suspicion, and what in hades are you babbling about in your last sentence. I know but can scarcely credit such a comment from a trained therapist.

Regards

[t.s]

I am not familiar with any brothels on 7/1. However I can tell you that the bars don’t get involved in whatever agreements their employees have with patrons. The bars provided entertainment and assorted drinks both with and without alcohol.

I can see what you are saying about teaching and reporting on nightlife. I guess it all comes down to community standards. If it were in the states Stickman would have been long gone from the schools. But seeing this is not the states and the community standards are not the same, I think he is fine. On the other end of the spectrum look at the extremes of some Muslim communities as to what is acceptable.... I should not need to clarify that one.

there is nothing in this post that is defensible.

nothing.

you are making exuses and denying realities, on stickmans behalf, likely without his knowledge or consent.

your attempt to play the muslim card is not at all relavent as we are not discussing a muslim school.

i think you should give up before you say something (else) really silly.

i say leave the man be, unless you can personally establish that he appreciates your intervention

Edited May 22, 2007 by t.s

[John K]

I am not defending anyone, just putting out a fact. Where I am from people would simply go ballistic if anyone even decided to play Dear Abby and teach, never mind be Stickman. Again all based on community standards.

As far as I know, I have never seen or heard of a bar handling the money between a customer and a employee. I would even go so far as to say I would imagine that particular transaction does not take place in the bar but at some other location. From what I know the bar fine eventually gets back to the girl in a form of pay. I think each bar has different standards on how that works.

Muslim card? Catholic card? Jehovah witness card? Buddhist card? All different, I can’t see how using any of them or others as examples to describe different community standard is wrong. In the states communities in the Bible belt tolerate things less than other parts of the country. Could you please explain to me I am truly at a loss for basis of that comment.

Edited May 22, 2007 by John K

[t.s]

I am not defending anyone, just putting out a fact. Where I am from people would simply go ballistic if anyone even decided to play Dear Abby and teach, never mind be Stickman. Again all based on community standards.

As far as I know, I have never seen or heard of a bar handling the money between a customer and a employee. From what I know the bar fine eventually gets back to the girl in a form of pay. I think each bar has different standards on how that works.

Muslim card? Catholic card? Jehovah witness card? Buddhist card? All different, I can’t see how using any of them or others as examples to describe different community standard is wrong. In the states communities in the Bible belt tolerate things less than other parts of the country. Could you please explain to me I am truly at a loss for basis of that comment.

i am intrigued by your interpretation of the term "fact". this is fact on what authority?

you still have not adressed whether or not your acquaintance stick appreciates all you are doing for him here.

Edited May 22, 2007 by t.s

[John K]

The fact is based on personal observation. I have lived there as well as here, and I have read in the news or in other forms of media about other places. As for me defending Stickman, I think you are getting the wrong impression. I like you am simply calling things as I see them. I try to be objective and honest as possible and not allow any personal feelings in the way. In this case it is the Thais who will decide if Stickman is a worthy teacher based on their community standards. Apparently he still has his job of many years so there must be little if any objections. The only true difference is his anonymity is gone.

[WaiWai]

All stickman does is report on happenings the hood and where you can get a good deal on a cold beer. I hardly see a problem with that.

Probably nobody *would* have a problem with *that*.

Community standards aside, many individuals see the sex industry as being detrimental to young people, in numerous ways ( psychological damage from disocciation, drug & alcohol abuse to enable disocciation, physical damage through illness and other events, exposure to criminal behaviours, loss of time learning other skills ...).

All very obvious through a little observation & natural empathy.

Anyone with the interests of young people at heart would simply not be encouraging this industry, no matter how directly or indirectly.

A person who doesn't have the interests of young people at heart should probably not be a teacher.

Edited May 22, 2007 by WaiWai

[steveromagnino]

I am not familiar with any brothels on 7/1. However I can tell you that the bars don’t get involved in whatever agreements their employees have with patrons. The bars provided entertainment and assorted drinks both with and without alcohol.

I can see what you are saying about teaching and reporting on nightlife. I guess it all comes down to community standards. If it were in the states Stickman would have been long gone from the schools. But seeing this is not the states and the community standards are not the same, I think he is fine. On the other end of the spectrum look at the extremes of some Muslim communities as to what is acceptable.... I should not need to clarify that one.

AFAIK not having been there but having western friends who do, there is one bar on Soi 7/1 that specialises in providing friends in a pair to men. The all in price for this is X,XXX baht which includes 'shopping'.

Since there is no other payment please elaborate to all of us how exactly agreement between employee and customer is established, addressing the obvious 'on the clock' nature of the time spent with customer by employee for no additional cost between patron and employee.

You might like to also answer reflecting that the company in question has a full refund in the event of the customer not being satisfied; a large blog type write up in a night life site leaving no question as to which employees provide what service and a clear description of what is included for the cost paid directly to the bar.

It is the exact same defense that the Thai brothels use; they are brothels, I suppose legally we can pretend otherwise, but one bar in particular on 7/1 offers sufficient evidence online that even with my basic knowledge of law I think they would be unable to defend themselves if accused. Everyone understands they are brothels, and that they hide behind the same legal defense of employee vs. off premises used worldwide by 'places of ill repute'. Everyone also understands that women who work in such places are prostitutes, or shall we debate that as well?

He is a teacher and he should not be supporting this trade at the same time as educating. IMHO One or the other, not both. As you say, though, it is up to the parents, rather than us.

My suspicion is that much of what we are discussing is beyond the knowledge of most parents. Were a few to find out, I doubt he would stay around long, especially given the generally low value many Thai schools apparently place on foreign english teachers (according to the english teachers and reasonably obvious in forums dedicated to english teaching here) and the large supply of teachers available.

[t.s]

The fact is based on personal observation. I have lived there as well as here, and I have read in the news or in other forms of media about other places. As for me defending Stickman, I think you are getting the wrong impression. I like you am simply calling things as I see them. I try to be objective and honest as possible and not allow any personal feelings in the way. In this case it is the Thais who will decide if Stickman is a worthy teacher based on their community standards. Apparently he still has his job of many years so there must be little if any objections. The only true difference is his anonymity is gone.

given our discussion regarding your interpretation of the term "fact", and your "calling things as you see them" I was most amused to notice your sig for the first time.

"John Krukowski, C.H.

Search for the positive and you shall find it.

Search for the negative and you shall find it.

You will always find and often become what you are searching for."

I think, perhaps, it is very telling. it certainly does not seem objective.

anyhow have a nice day, I'm out.

[sriracha john]

Sorry, but someone running up and done Nana with a notepad at 1am doesn't fit that role and I'm left to suppose that this all seemed to be such a big farang-centric "war" he had with the light bulb salesman, that they are out of the loop in terms of the school and their children's teacher being outed in the English-language medium. I wonder if they were specifically and individually polled, what their response would be.....

Your mai pen rai? or Dismissal?

In this case it is the Thais who will decide if Stickman is a worthy teacher based on their community standards. Apparently he still has his job of many years so there must be little if any objections. The only true difference is his anonymity is gone.

That's what I was questioning earlier. Despite all the hullabaloo generated by the War of Words in the English-language boards, forums, etc. ... just how much of it ever made it into the Thai-language boards, forums, Thai newspapers, etc. that the all-important Thai parents would have even heard of what their children's teacher was up to. Sometimes I think we mistakenly believe that just because something is discussed ad nauseum in these Western formats, then it must be widely known by the Thai population at large and I believe that's not the case in a lot of situations. I would venture to suppose that if his exploits were presented point-blank to these Thai parents, they indeed would say he doesn't meet their "community standard" at all and demand his immediate dismissal.

[Ulysses G.]

I would venture to suppose that if his exploits were presented point-blank to these Thai parents, they indeed would say he doesn't meet their "community standard" at all and demand his immediate dismissal.

Writing about Bangkok's night life and his experieces and feelings about Thailand on the Internet?

Unless some know-it-all, puritanical farang told them exactly what to think, I bet that they could care less!

[PaulUSA302]

I wonder if we all who post here were fully exposed on the Internet as to who we were, where we worked... Then went on to make it their life to dog your steps, encourage others to comment to your employer about things you have written on the Internet and speculate as to the justification of your employment as related to your Internet postings....

I think if we all got the "Stickman" treatment, we all would be looking for new employment.

I would venture to suppose that if his exploits were presented point-blank to these Thai parents, they indeed would say he doesn't meet their "community standard" at all and demand his immediate dismissal.

Writing about Bangkok's night life and his experieces and feelings about Thailand on the Internet?

Unless some know-it-all, puritanical farang told them exactly what to think, I bet that they could care less!

[John K]

Stever.

I know the place you are talking about on 7/1, and I can’t particularly recall any excerpts from Stickman about it and the happenings other than it being there, but If you can drop a link from one of his columns I can view it. The only knowledge I have of it was from a link on another website that is static. The only thing I seem to recall is hearing about an untimely natural death of an owner or manager. That may have been in another columnists report like Dave the Rave or another as the time frame may have been while Stickman was not active.

SJ, I guess we all have skeletons on our closet of sorts, some former Prime Ministers more than others. I personally can’t imagine an issue unless Stickman bring it up in class. I would imagine so far he has not.

If you want to take it a step further I can recall a recent thread or two that talks about banning alcohol ads as it may cause a bad influence to young people. So if a teacher has a beer or more on the weekend but is completely sober come Monday morning, using the same basic guidelines that teacher should be dismissed too. Talk about a teacher shortage, I think there would be non left Thai or not.

I would agree with you if it comes down to overlap. If there is overlap in the classroom then I would tend to think the Thais would dismiss him and I would more than likely support that decision depending on context. What a person does on his own time and as long as it does not violate any laws should be no concern of anyone else.

Edited May 22, 2007 by John K

[Prakanong]

I wonder if we all who post here were fully exposed on the Internet as to who we were, where we worked... Then went on to make it their life to dog your steps, encourage others to comment to your employer about things you have written on the Internet and speculate as to the justification of your employment as related to your Internet postings....

I think if we all got the "Stickman" treatment, we all would be looking for new employment.

I would venture to suppose that if his exploits were presented point-blank to these Thai parents, they indeed would say he doesn't meet their "community standard" at all and demand his immediate dismissal.

Writing about Bangkok's night life and his experieces and feelings about Thailand on the Internet?

Unless some know-it-all, puritanical farang told them exactly what to think, I bet that they could care less!

Yes I agree it could full well happen - thats why the person in question must have had some type of brainstrom to be writing about his workplace as he did and about the Director of Studies etc

He gave all the ammunition that the unbalanced Galt/Summers needed in his vendetta.

[Prakanong]

"I know the place you are talking about on 7/1, and I can’t particularly recall any excerpts from Stickman about it and the happenings other than it being there, but If you can drop a link from one of his columns I can view it."

So now you know the place but did not a few posts ago ;-))

Stick has done interviews with the guy, spoke about their gourmet meals together and yes the untimely death of a partner might have been mentioned (the newly opened Pattaya branch) but it might have been elsewhere.

"What a person does on his own time and as long as it does not violate any laws should be no concern of anyone else."

I am sorry but you know that is nonesense - many work contracts have items in which would not be against the law but could get you dismissed.

Then again I am sure the promotion of certain types of profession and business is against the law somewhere in the Thai statute books. As is running a biz without a WP ie Private Eye although he claims to have shut that down ages ago but its not that long since he was pushing it.

My personal view expressed a few times is he should not have given Galt so much ammo and he should have walked away from teaching and made good money with the websites and even expanded into other area's but that is me and not him - I really do not know his thinking on the matter.

I have also said I would be looking at pals or ex-colleagues more closely if I was Stick - the info passed to Galt seemed to be from someone close and not a distant enemy.

[sriracha john]

I would venture to suppose that if his exploits were presented point-blank to these Thai parents, they indeed would say he doesn't meet their "community standard" at all and demand his immediate dismissal.

Writing about Bangkok's night life and his experieces and feelings about Thailand on the Internet?

Unless some know-it-all, puritanical farang told them exactly what to think, I bet that they could care less!

I'd love to get in on that bet... and the parents wouldn't even need to be told what to think... not that they would listen, anyway. If they were simply presented with his exploits... and left it at that to determine his fate, I'd be willing to take part in your wager. Having seen teachers dismissed for doing what he writes about, I'm pretty certain the parents would call for the dismissal for someone who not only did what he writes about, but also publicizes it by writing about it, and even makes money publicizing it.

Edited May 22, 2007 by sriracha john

[John K]

"I know the place you are talking about on 7/1, and I can’t particularly recall any excerpts from Stickman about it and the happenings other than it being there, but If you can drop a link from one of his columns I can view it."

So now you know the place but did not a few posts ago ;-))

Stick has done interviews with the guy, spoke about their gourmet meals together and yes the untimely death of a partner might have been mentioned (the newly opened Pattaya branch) but it might have been elsewhere.

"What a person does on his own time and as long as it does not violate any laws should be no concern of anyone else."

I am sorry but you know that is nonesense - many work contracts have items in which would not be against the law but could get you dismissed.

Then again I am sure the promotion of certain types of profession and business is against the law somewhere in the Thai statute books. As is running a biz without a WP ie Private Eye although he claims to have shut that down ages ago but its not that long since he was pushing it.

My personal view expressed a few times is he should not have given Galt so much ammo and he should have walked away from teaching and made good money with the websites and even expanded into other area's but that is me and not him - I really do not know his thinking on the matter.

I have also said I would be looking at pals or ex-colleagues more closely if I was Stick - the info passed to Galt seemed to be from someone close and not a distant enemy.

Some good points. Without sounding like I am trying to cover my ass on this one, The place on 7/1 is not a venue in the typical term but more of a club as in it’s name. I am not sure how you would classify a massage parlor. I think service related business would be a better description than venue. But back to the club on 7/1 in question, as I have never been there I can’t say how it is run and who or how transactions are made, so I will reserve myself from any additional comment on it.

As for the contracts, Stickman can write about places as they are reported to him, he does not need to go there. He has people sending him information regularly. I guess under the contracts you speak of Pattaya is off limits. Not just Walking Street but the whole place. I don’t know if his school has such a contract and I think it would be difficult to enforce as proof of intent would be needed. I wonder how RCA would be rated in the contract... perhaps students only teachers not allowed. RCA is not too unlike Nana from what I hear except mostly Thai. With that thought is there really that much of a concern about Stickman teaching? I am sure if he went there he could spot some of his students.

Yes I understand your point, and when a person signs a contact they agree to the terms. Personally I would strike out that line that implies you can’t enjoy yourself and you are subject to another persons opinion on what you did. Simply going to Nana does not mean you need to bar fine a girl. I am sure go-go bars would run out of girls in the first few hours and need to close if that was the case.

[A_Traveller]

Some good points. Without sounding like I am trying to cover my ass on this one, The place on 7/1 is not a venue in the typical term but more of a club as in it’s name. [No it's not, come on let's be sensible here, the place is not a club, anyone who is willing to walk through the door and pay the fee for two ladies company on the premises, is welcome, indeed anyone who enters and does not make a selection quickly will be asked to leave] I am not sure how you would classify a massage parlor. I think service related business would be a better description than venue. But back to the club on 7/1 in question, as I have never been there I can’t say how it is run and who or how transactions are made, so I will reserve myself from any additional comment on it. [Very wise, a shame you didn't take that position before talking originally]

As for the contracts, Stickman can write about places as they are reported to him, he does not need to go there. He has people sending him information regularly. I guess under the contracts you speak of Pattaya is off limits. Not just Walking Street but the whole place. I don’t know if his school has such a contract and I think it would be difficult to enforce as proof of intent would be needed. I wonder how RCA would be rated in the contract... perhaps students only teachers not allowed. RCA is not too unlike Nana from what I hear except mostly Thai. [Again somewhere you haven't been one presumes. Do you always pontificate about things you know nothing about, except by hearsay and rumour?] With that thought is there really that much of a concern about Stickman teaching? I am sure if he went there he could spot some of his students. [since Stickman always implied that 'he was there', especially for dancing contests etc., you are doing him no favous here,are you. Either he lied, or he used stringers without due credit. Others who provide a similar viewpoint are at least accurate about their set-up].

Yes I understand your point, and when a person signs a contact they agree to the terms. Personally I would strike out that line [and then not get the job or commensurate work permit] that implies you can’t enjoy yourself and you are subject to another persons opinion on what you did. Simply going to Nana does not mean you need to bar fine [and given your previous comments, what is said fine, don't tell me it's to compensate the bar for the loss of skills, cue hysterical laughter] a girl. I am sure go-go bars would run out of girls in the first few hours and need to close if that was the case.

You really should think carefully before hitting that keyboard, though your contributions to the 'southern threads' show that is not your M.O..

Ironically, if one looks at this whole 'Galt' 'Stickman' thing, what it proves, as I said some while ago, is to be careful about what you put on the net, since either using off line browsers, or wayback machines, what ever is out there can come back to haunt the author.

On that point and that point alone, I do feel that Stickman has been persecuted but he didn't give thought to what he was doing. His tendency to favour those who gave good PR {how ever one defines that } created the foundation for such a situation.

To borrow a phrase

The evil that men do lives after them;

The good is oft interred with their bones

Regards

[jEFFREYk44]

A year or so I asked for advertising rates from Stick and he quoted B5000 per ad on index page and B4000 on other pages, go do the math, the guy is making a bundle. Lets start a new thread on the Enquirer or whatever, its just a website!

No comment further as I do not approve or disapprove, it is a fun read with at least one interesting thing every week, otherwise boring as I am not a bar guy, ok, Peninsula is close and fun.

Edited May 22, 2007 by jEFFREYk44

[John K]

Some good points. Without sounding like I am trying to cover my ass on this one, The place on 7/1 is not a venue in the typical term but more of a club as in it’s name. [No it's not, come on let's be sensible here, the place is not a club, anyone who is willing to walk through the door and pay the fee for two ladies company on the premises, is welcome, indeed anyone who enters and does not make a selection quickly will be asked to leave] I am not sure how you would classify a massage parlor. I think service related business would be a better description than venue. But back to the club on 7/1 in question, as I have never been there I can’t say how it is run and who or how transactions are made, so I will reserve myself from any additional comment on it. [Very wise, a shame you didn't take that position before talking originally]

As for the contracts, Stickman can write about places as they are reported to him, he does not need to go there. He has people sending him information regularly. I guess under the contracts you speak of Pattaya is off limits. Not just Walking Street but the whole place. I don’t know if his school has such a contract and I think it would be difficult to enforce as proof of intent would be needed. I wonder how RCA would be rated in the contract... perhaps students only teachers not allowed. RCA is not too unlike Nana from what I hear except mostly Thai. [Again somewhere you haven't been one presumes. Do you always pontificate about things you know nothing about, except by hearsay and rumour?] With that thought is there really that much of a concern about Stickman teaching? I am sure if he went there he could spot some of his students. [since Stickman always implied that 'he was there', especially for dancing contests etc., you are doing him no favous here,are you. Either he lied, or he used stringers without due credit. Others who provide a similar viewpoint are at least accurate about their set-up].

Yes I understand your point, and when a person signs a contact they agree to the terms. Personally I would strike out that line [and then not get the job or commensurate work permit] that implies you can’t enjoy yourself and you are subject to another persons opinion on what you did. Simply going to Nana does not mean you need to bar fine [and given your previous comments, what is said fine, don't tell me it's to compensate the bar for the loss of skills, cue hysterical laughter] a girl. I am sure go-go bars would run out of girls in the first few hours and need to close if that was the case.

You really should think carefully before hitting that keyboard, though your contributions to the 'southern threads' show that is not your M.O..

Ironically, if one looks at this whole 'Galt' 'Stickman' thing, what it proves, as I said some while ago, is to be careful about what you put on the net, since either using off line browsers, or wayback machines, what ever is out there can come back to haunt the author.

On that point and that point alone, I do feel that Stickman has been persecuted but he didn't give thought to what he was doing. His tendency to favour those who gave good PR {how ever one defines that } created the foundation for such a situation.

To borrow a phrase

The evil that men do lives after them;

The good is oft interred with their bones

Regards

I can tell you have never been to RCA. The Thais that are there are young, in some cases very young. Without saying they are some teachers students. Yes I have walked down RCA at night just to see what it was about. It was very easy to see what age group of people were in line to go in and even in the outside bare area. Apparently they don’t control minimum age requirements as tightly as one would think. Perhaps it was one of the motivating reason the Thais wanted to ban alcohol ads.

I have never seen the implication Stickman said he was there but I have seen credits regularly at the bottom of his weekly. I guess it is up to your own interpretation. Again if there is a specific one please drop a link. There is nothing unusual about sending an email to a bar manager to get feedback on a contest.

As far as contracts go, they are negotiated. You can add or cross out what you wish. I just displayed my personal preference. Have I crossed out and added to contracts in the past? Absolutely! I have been doing that from the time I was 18. There is no law that says you need accept any terms you don’t like.

Again on the bar fine issue, apparently you know less than I do. As I said each bar has it’s own way of dealing with it. Rater than assuming or implying I don’t know, go and ask. The people that do know will quickly see who’s post makes more sense yours or mine. From what I know in general the girls get paid x amount and that is based on the number of bar fines they get. If they go over they get more pay, if they are under less pay. I also have been told there is a minimum number of bar fines needed to get pay. I guess this is a way of natural pruning that keeps only the most attractive girls working. I guess it comes back to that contract thing again.

Personal note, If I don’t know about something I will indicate I don’t know and ask others for input, or make no comment. To the best of my knowledge what I post is true.

Edited May 22, 2007 by John K

[Prakanong]

John K

A contract does not have to be very specific ie bring the company into disrepute. Even if you fought it you are not going to get much change either in the west or even less in Thailand and you well know it.

Stickman did go to the Dance Competitions but he does get a lot of his material - not from stringers but from bar owners and managers - a bit like Trink did.

I do not think Traveller was saying you do not know how bars are run - LOL

I think he and everyone else is laughing at your statement that bar's (the type we are talking about) only provide entertainment and drinks and they have no involvment is selling girls for sexual activities.

That is absolute rubbish, you know unless you are being particularly naive and everyone else knows it. I do beleive you used to write on Nightlife boards (using you signature) - if so you know well what the bar scene is about so trying to use the bars not involved argument is spurious.

Bar's get involved all the time with what the girl provides - some bar's cut girls wages for meeting guys after work and ask other girls to report them. What about when a girl has not performed her *Duties* - a lot of bar's wil return money to a customer - they are involved in the "Skin trade" and all but the most idiotic would try to deny that - its their reason d'etre