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SURVEY: Cryptocurrencies -- wave of the future or disaster waiting to happen?


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SURVEY: Cryptocurrencies -- wave of the future or disaster waiting to happen?  

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2 minutes ago, Sharp said:

Bitcoin isnt deflationary asset since its total supply doesn't decrease every year but i guess we have differing views on my logic.????

 

Okay,  here's a simple thought experiment:  how much bitcoin will your groceries cost you next month?  How about next year?

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3 minutes ago, Misty said:

 

Okay,  here's a simple thought experiment:  how much bitcoin will your groceries cost you next month?  How about next year?

Firstly i agree you have an argument but what i am saying is more and more institutions are accepting it becoming a currency of sorts ( Although i have stated its a store of value for me as of now) Mastercard,Tesla,Paypal,BNY Mellon Americas oldest bank to name the latest ..Oh and Miami ( Google the latest on that for paying their taxes in Bitcoin) So if I pay my latest PayPal bill in Bitcoin at todays rate and tomorrow it drops 30% will PayPal call me up for the difference i guess we will see..

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Just now, Sharp said:

Firstly i agree you have an argument but what i am saying is more and more institutions are accepting it becoming a currency of sorts ( Although i have stated its a store of value for me as of now) Mastercard,Tesla,Paypal,BNY Mellon Americas oldest bank to name the latest ..Oh and Miami ( Google the latest on that for paying their taxes in Bitcoin) So if I pay my latest PayPal bill in Bitcoin at todays rate and tomorrow it drops 30% will PayPal call me up for the difference i guess we will see..

 

Institutions may "participate" in some way as long as they can make money - for example, helping people "store" (hoard) or maybe trade it.  Will bitcoin be used for transactions?   Not really - not as long as there's an expectation that its price in real currencies will keep going up.  That's the real appeal here.  Bitcoin enthusiasts won't use it for transactions. 

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1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

The main concern would be that national governments could make Bitcoin-trading illegal, but with large organizations now stepping into it, that risk is getting smaller.

 

 

Not sure there's any need to make it illegal, unless the trading will somehow sabotage the real economy. 

 

Still, there are many other measures that could be taken that bitcoin enthusiasts may not like, that could diminish all the speculative interest. For example, first, make ownership reportable to tax authorities. Later, tax ownership like a US PFIC.

 

Real digital currencies are almost certain to enter the picture in a bigger way. This may take some of the fluff out of bitcoin's appeal. Some day maybe those who are interested in socially responsible/ environmentally friendly investing will also start to realize that "mining" something that is inherently worthless in a highly carbon-emission producing manner is maybe not such a good idea.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Misty said:

Institutions may "participate" in some way as long as they can make money - for example, helping people "store" (hoard) or maybe trade it.  Will bitcoin be used for transactions?   Not really - not as long as there's an expectation that its price in real currencies will keep going up.  That's the real appeal here.  Bitcoin enthusiasts won't use it for transactions. 

 

Who cares, honestly? Why the need to continue hammering on the fact that Bitcoin does not (currently) work as a currency. Who gives a <deleted>? It's has proven itself to be a store of value and has reached mainstream adoption through that path. By doing so, it has opened the door for other crypto solutions to improve on Bitcoins shortfalls as a currency. There's a variety of stablecoins out there today that have the potential to serve as currency (some might argue that Tether, USDC, DAI are already doing so). 

 

Believe it or not, the crypto world is larger than just Bitcoin. It's proven itself useful for a variety of solutions, in particular Decentralized Finance (currently TVL north of $40 billion).

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3 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

 

Who cares, honestly? Why the need to continue hammering on the fact that Bitcoin does not (currently) work as a currency. Who gives a <deleted>? It's has proven itself to be a store of value and has reached mainstream adoption through that path. By doing so, it has opened the door for other crypto solutions to improve on Bitcoins shortfalls as a currency. There's a variety of stablecoins out there today that have the potential to serve as currency (some might argue that Tether, USDC, DAI are already doing so). 

 

Believe it or not, the crypto world is larger than just Bitcoin. It's proven itself useful for a variety of solutions, in particular Decentralized Finance (currently TVL north of $40 billion).

 

Completely agree with it not being a currency (and never will be).  Bitcoin is only a store of value as in my toe nails are stores of value, since I will charge 100 bitcoin per nail today, and 200 bitcoin tomorrow. 

 

My point being, "store of value" is an illusion if no one transacts.

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20 hours ago, allanos said:

Quote: The final Bitcoin will be mined in 2040. I think this may have been a typo.  In point of fact, as halving events take place and future mining difficulty is adjusted, it is expected that the last of 21 million Bitcoins will be mined exactly one hundred years later, in 2140.


Yup, a typo, thanks. I have a bad habit of typing too fast and, then, being too lazy to go back and check thoroughly for errors.

By the way, thanks for your posts in this thread. Insightful, informed, and well-written, a pleasure to read them.

 

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35 minutes ago, Misty said:

Real digital currencies are almost certain to enter the picture in a bigger way. This may take some of the fluff out of bitcoin's appeal.


With respect, this is the dumbest thing anyone has said in this thread.

By "real digital currencies", I presume you mean digital versions of the existing fiat currencies, which will become debased just as rapidly as their paper equivalents.

You have posted a lot in this thread, so, presumably you are interested in the subject. The fact that you think that it would be good to have a digital currency stripped of the very things that make Bitcoin such a technological marvel suggests, however, that you really have no idea what Bitcoin is. I don't say that to be nasty. Rather, if you are interested in the subject, I would urge you take the time to learn, with an open mind, what Bitcoin is, and what it does that is so different to previous money systems. It will blow your mind once you grasp the implications.

 

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6 minutes ago, donnacha said:


With respect, this is the dumbest thing anyone has said in this thread.

By "real digital currencies", I presume you mean digital versions of the existing fiat currencies, which will become debased just as rapidly as their paper equivalents.

You have posted a lot in this thread, so, presumably you are interested in the subject. The fact that you think that it would be good to have a digital currency stripped of the very things that make Bitcoin such a technological marvel suggests, however, that you really have no idea what Bitcoin is. I don't say that to be nasty. Rather, if you are interested in the subject, I would urge you take the time to learn, with an open mind, what Bitcoin is, and what it does that is so different to previous money systems. It will blow your mind once you grasp the implications.

 

Right back at you:  outside of the "technological marvel" - you really have no idea what Bitcoin is - in terms of the money and banking system.  I have studied bitcoin for many years, and money and banking for decades, thank you.

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1 minute ago, Misty said:

Right back at you:  outside of the "technological marvel" - you really have no idea what Bitcoin is - in terms of the money and banking system.  I have studied bitcoin for many years, and money and banking for decades, thank you.

The banking system is being replaced with decentralisation. Fiat money is being replaced by cryptocurrency.

 

Inflationary Keynesian economics are flawed and obsolete.

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1 minute ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

The banking system is being replaced with decentralisation. Fiat money is being replaced by cryptocurrency.

 

Inflationary Keynesian economics are flawed and obsolete.

 

Right.  Please show your work and provide examples.

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9 minutes ago, Misty said:

: )  I think we have never met, have we?


No, I don't think so, but I base my conclusion on your posts throughout this thread.

It would be quite possible for someone with an understanding of Bitcoin to dislike it, for many reasons, but the ideas you express are all based on a very basic and fundamental misunderstanding of what it is.

It is like hearing someone say that cars are bad because they have to kill hundreds of horses to give the engines horsepower. He could tell me that he has studied car engines for decades, and knows more about cars than anyone else, but ... no. Sometimes complete nonsense is too obvious to even argue about.

Seriously, think about actually learning about Bitcoin. It is actually more enjoyable and less difficult than you fear. Then you can put some gunpowder behind your arguments.

 

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Just now, donnacha said:


No, I don't think so, but I base my conclusion on your posts throughout this thread.

It would be quite possible for someone with an understanding of Bitcoin to dislike it, for many reasons, but the ideas you express are all based on a very basic and very obvious misunderstanding.

It is like hearing someone say that cars are bad because they have to kill hundreds of horses to give the engines horsepower. He could tell me that he has studied car engines for decades, and knows more about cars than anyone else, but ... no. Sometimes complete nonsense is too obvious to even argue about.

Seriously, think about actually learning about Bitcoin. It is actually more enjoyable and less difficult than you think. Then you can put some gunpowder behind your arguments.
 

 

Bless your heart.

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39 minutes ago, donnacha said:

With respect, this is the dumbest thing anyone has said in this thread.


Not a “dumb” thing to say at all. Perhaps you should do your own research before suggesting others to dig deeper. 
 

Whether you like it or not, fiat pegged stablecoins have been growing in adoption faster than any other crypto currency. In fact Tether settles more transactions at the moment than Bitcoin does. USDC is not far behind. 
 

I consider this to be a good thing though... this might very well be the only way for crypto in general to gain mainstream adoption. In addition, these stablecoins function as an on-ramp

into the world of DeFi.  

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1 minute ago, mjnaus said:

Whether you like it or not, fiat pegged stablecoins have been growing in adoption faster than any other crypto currency.


Stablecoins are largely used for the continual settlement and arbitrage between exchanges. Of course they are growing as Bitcoin and the rest of the crypto market is growing.

He was not, however, talking about stablecoins. He was suggesting, ludicrously, that Bitcoin would lose its popularity once the governments introduce their "real digital currencies". This is someone who is unable to imagine that a currency could be real unless it is controlled by a government. I called it the dumbest thing said on this thread - and there was a lot of competition for that crown - because he has not a clue what the whole point of Bitcoin is. No one else managed to out themselves quite as spectacularly as that.

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a food for thought:

 

google:// which country produces bitcoin mining equipment

 

google:// which country has the largest bitcoin mining power

 

google:// which country buys most bitcoin

 

 

America has a long history of buying Chinese cráp :biggrin:

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On 2/16/2021 at 4:08 PM, Mr Meeseeks said:

Bitcoin - 

Capped supply of 21 million (there will never be more)

Backed by the biggest network in the World (the internet of money)

Not controlled by anyone

You directly own and are responsible for your own funds (no need to trust a third party)

Extremely hard to steal from someone

No banks or third parties required

Can be used as a totally secure store of value

Can send almost instantly to anyone anywhere in the World without the need for a third party

Trust-less (no need to trust anyone else)

Network can never be taken offline, hacked or stopped

Pseudonymous (similar to an IP address)

All transactions are recorded on an immutable ledger (no good for criminals)

The practical issues are that the exchanges are anything but trustworthy or reliable, it is easy enough to lose your wallet access, and most importantly the 51% attack vector for transaction reversal.

 

When BTC gets too hot all those issues become a major challenge for the sustainability of the system/

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