SURVEY: Cryptocurrencies -- wave of the future or disaster waiting to happen?

[fdsa]

3 hours ago, patman30 said:

you do not want to believe the latter so you choose to ignore it.

 

So you are a fan of BSV or some else derivative. Sorry, I do not want to discuss forks.

 

3 hours ago, patman30 said:

Whale Alerts: Tether Minted at Treasury

 

LOL, so its simply China drawing digits? Yea,  I suspected that, same with exchanges

[patman30]

1 minute ago, fdsa said:

 

So you are a fan of BSV or some else derivative. Sorry, I do not want to discuss forks.

LOL, so its simply China drawing digits? Yea,  I suspected that, same with exchanges

i am a fan of bitcoin, nothing else.

  

On 2/18/2021 at 1:56 PM, fdsa said:

google:// which country owns largest cryptocurrency exchanges

The largest exchanges moved out of China a while ago duie to regs

Binance HQ now in Malta
Huobi, Hong Kong Company, HQ now in Seychelles
HBTC HQ in USA
Kraken HQ in SF, USA
Bittrex HQ in USA

 

[fdsa]

I'm talking about the control of CCP over that exchanges, not the companies' geographical jurisdictions.

[lavezzi]

On 2/20/2021 at 10:04 AM, J Town said:

If you can buy physical objects with bitcoin then it is a currency.

Currency is thightned to a government that can print more of it to help economy.

Bitcoin cannot be infationed: we cant have more than 21 millions bitcoins, so in time of trouble wont serve as a common currency but a store of value.

 

[lavezzi]

On 2/21/2021 at 5:11 PM, fdsa said:

 

If there is a whole FULL potential waiting to unleash then why one Bitcoin transaction still takes about an hour to complete, costs about 10 bucks, and spends the comparable amount of electricity as the whole household for a day?
These problems were already known 10 (ten) years ago but still nothing was done to address them. What are Bitcoin developers waiting for? When will they unleash the FULL potential?

If Bitcoin is not an everyday payment method then, but a store of value similar to gold, maybe the FULL potential resides in some different cryptocurrency?

 

So many questions, so few answers...

1) bitcoin behaves as store of value and is being bought by company to hedge against infation.

2) Behaving as a store o value it does not matter if it takes an hour to be transferred or if it cost 10 bucks. Probably if you want buy gold phisically you need many hours for that and when you buy probably you pay 5% more and when u sell you loose 10% and if you hold you loose about 2% a year (3800 tons of new gold are mined yearly).

3) there is no need to address transaction speed and cost of transaction (also if lightning network coming) because you should really be sad to buy things with btc and not fiat.

 

bitcoin is digital gold, will be worldwide used as store of value in few years and will be worth a lot. There are faster crypto to be used as currency.

 

Between bitcoin SOV potential and Litecoin faster transaction will you really invest long term on Litecoin?

 

 

 

[lavezzi]

On 2/17/2021 at 6:08 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

I remember I read an article about a coffee shop which allowed payment with Bitcoins. Some customers liked it, a modern payment system, fine.

But soon later the owner didn't accept Bitcoins payments anymore because it was just too volatile. Every day different prices (or exchange rates, every day changing money because tomorrow the exchange rate will be different. Or maybe keeping the money because soon the price will go up....

Crypto currencies might be interesting for people to speculate or gamble. But for everyday payments they don't make much sense - except people want to hide what they pay for or where the money comes from.

For "normal people" it's a lot of headache without advantage. 

 

I agree with most of your points, is too volatile and cannot be used to sell cofee, is not even anonimous and transaction fee are high (slow too without lightning).

I agree bitcoin can't be a currency.

The question is why then Elon Musk bought a billion dollars of btc?

Do you think his intent is to speculate/gamble or there is something else going on?

[OneMoreFarang]

8 minutes ago, lavezzi said:

 

I agree with most of your points, is too volatile and cannot be used to sell cofee, is not even anonimous and transaction fee are high (slow too without lightning).

I agree bitcoin can't be a currency.

The question is why then Elon Musk bought a billion dollars of btc?

Do you think his intent is to speculate/gamble or there is something else going on?

I don't think it's a good idea to do follow that guy in any way.

Too many people do that and some of them are just realizing how much they lost recently.

[lavezzi]

On 3/6/2021 at 11:50 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

I don't think it's a good idea to do follow that guy in any way.

Too many people do that and some of them are just realizing how much they lost recently.

You are right again, we are not following Elon Musk, its him following btc hodlers.

Most of your dubts can be solved investiagating why public company all around the world are buying btc.

The funny thing is that once you will save you buying power buying a fraction or more btc in the next 10 years @>$500k you will still doing the right move.

 

[Susco]

On 2/27/2021 at 7:16 PM, lavezzi said:

Probably if you want buy gold phisically you need many hours for that and when you buy probably you pay 5% more and when u sell you loose 10% and if you hold you loose about 2% a year (3800 tons of new gold are mined yearly).

You don't pay costs on buying and selling crypto?

There may be a surprise soon about those cost also, as I have recently read a few articles about the increasing cost for mining.

Why would you guaranteed lose 2% a year with gold? I know years it decreased in value and other years it increased, same as with every other investment, including the crypto gamble.

Now new gold get indeed mined yearly, gold also get used daily, in much tech stuff, so if no new gold would be mined the world would run out of it, and who says gold supply is unlimited?

[OneMoreFarang]

30 minutes ago, lavezzi said:

You are right again, we are not following Elon Musk, its him following btc hodlers.

Most of your dubts can be solved investiagating why public company all around the world are buying btc.

The funny thing is that once you will save you buying power buying a fraction or more btc in the next 10 years @>$500k you will still doing the right move.

It's amazing to see your confidence. How old are you? 20 something? At that time I also thought I am invincible and all those others are the losers.

I met enough rich and not so rich guys who invested according to their great ideas and who found out sometimes sooner and sometimes later that those ideas were not really so great.

Maybe you are right. Enjoy all your money! And just in case that in a couple of years you ask yourself: "Why did I do that? I should have sold in time." Then maybe you remember our little exchange on TV. ???? 

[lavezzi]

On 3/14/2021 at 8:46 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

It's amazing to see your confidence. How old are you? 20 something? At that time I also thought I am invincible and all those others are the losers.

I met enough rich and not so rich guys who invested according to their great ideas and who found out sometimes sooner and sometimes later that those ideas were not really so great.

Maybe you are right. Enjoy all your money! And just in case that in a couple of years you ask yourself: "Why did I do that? I should have sold in time." Then maybe you remember our little exchange on TV. ???? 

From your answer I understand that I sounded like I wanted to say I'm more smart than you.

I'm honestly sorry for that, and I dint want to use my btc knowlodge to compete in anyway; I never used my gains to point out that I'm better than other people.

I just wish you what I wanted for all my friends and parents: find the curiosity and time to study btc.

 

 

 

[lavezzi]

On 3/14/2021 at 8:40 AM, Susco said:

You don't pay costs on buying and selling crypto?

There may be a surprise soon about those cost also, as I have recently read a few articles about the increasing cost for mining.

Why would you guaranteed lose 2% a year with gold? I know years it decreased in value and other years it increased, same as with every other investment, including the crypto gamble.

Now new gold get indeed mined yearly, gold also get used daily, in much tech stuff, so if no new gold would be mined the world would run out of it, and who says gold supply is unlimited?

The cost of transactions in my opinion is irrelevant.

Imho btc is the digital gold, talking about 0.10% or 0.50% commission to buy something that I think is revolutionary make little sense to me. As digital gold I mean btc to be the new best store of value actually available.

There are about 190,000 tons of gold already mined around the world and there are about 4,000 tons of new gold every year: about 2% more gold every year. This doen't mean you have a guaranteed loose of 2% a year. Gold has been used since centuries as a store of value, the more a fiat is inflationed the more gold will be worth that's why its price keep growing in the long term but there is still a little loosing of buying power.

Personally I hate trading, I would loose all my capital trading gold or crypto. But as store of value, buying and keeping it for long term I can't see many point in btc history where I would be actually loosing. Yes there have been times when I was loosing, but I was in for long term.

Once will be impossibile to mine new gold than we will have a great historical store of value without more added every year.

The question is, having studied how btc works (blockchain, P.O.W., difficulty adjustments, halving, why the longest chain is the only honest one) could btc be adopted in place of gold in the next 10 years?

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by lavezzi

[lavezzi]

15 minutes ago, lavezzi said:

 

 

admin delete pls.

Edited March 15, 2021 by lavezzi

[Susco]

37 minutes ago, lavezzi said:

The question is, having studied how btc works (blockchain, P.O.W., difficulty adjustments, halving, why the longest chain is the only honest one) could btc be adopted in place of gold in the next 10 years?

Bitcoin was the first crypto. How many there are currently, and how many there will be next year?

So the theory of the amount of BTC is limited is just an illusion, as there are new crypto's every day.

Blockchain and digital currencies are also a completely different thing from crypto's. Digital currencies will evolve, while crypto currencies will be a thing of the past sooner or later.

You seen the law proposal of the Indian government, to make trading and possession of crypto currencies illegal?

How many countries you think gonna follow suit, as they will protect their own currency.

And take note, crypto when it is banned worldwide does not increase in value any more, in contrast with classic cars or art.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Susco

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, lavezzi said:

From your answer I understand that I sounded like I wanted to say I'm more smart than you.

I'm honestly sorry for that, and I dint want to use my btc knowlodge to compete in anyway; I never used my gains to point out that I'm better than other people.

I just wish you what I wanted for all my friends and parents: find the curiosity and time to study btc.

Thanks for your answer. I didn't think that you think you are smarter than me. Maybe you are, maybe not.

I think you are more daring than me now. Maybe I would have done the same when I was 20 - a long time ago.

You write you "study btc". Sorry, that sounds like a joke to me. Maybe you learned a lot about it and maybe you know a lot about it's past. And possibly you have a prediction about the future. But that's exactly that, a prediction. Nobody knows how the btc future will be. Not even a top expert knows that.

[upu2]

In some respects it is good especially when you consider Block Chain. However, with so many under the table transactions going on by various governments around the world I think it is highly unikely it will achive the potential that it has on paper.

[lavezzi]

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks for your answer. I didn't think that you think you are smarter than me. Maybe you are, maybe not.

I think you are more daring than me now. Maybe I would have done the same when I was 20 - a long time ago.

You write you "study btc". Sorry, that sounds like a joke to me. Maybe you learned a lot about it and maybe you know a lot about it's past. And possibly you have a prediction about the future. But that's exactly that, a prediction. Nobody knows how the btc future will be. Not even a top expert knows that.

I'm 47, passionate about btc since 2017.

Predictions drive the markets, as little as I know stock prices seems to be what people think a company will be worth in the future.

My prediction ???? is btc market cap between 2T (twice as actual marketcap) and 10T (gold marketcap).

Talk back in 10 years then ????

[lavezzi]

43 minutes ago, Susco said:

Bitcoin was the first crypto. How many there are currently, and how many there will be next year?

So the theory of the amount of BTC is limited is just an illusion, as there are new crypto's every day.

Blockchain and digital currencies are also a completely different thing from crypto's. Digital currencies will evolve, while crypto currencies will be a thing of the past sooner or later.

You seen the law proposal of the Indian government, to make trading and possession of crypto currencies illegal?

How many countries you think gonna follow suit, as they will protect their own currency.

And take note, crypto when it is banned worldwide does not increase in value any more, in contrast with classic cars or art.

There are more usefull crypto in the world like ETH (lol). Why public company are buying mostly btc if all crypto are the same? Maybe the media choosed to talk only about btc?

btc behave as a store of value like gold but digital and does not compete or is actually a threat to nation currencies.

Is gold theateing governments issued currencies or goverments hold it?

Yes, history tell us that the historical best store of value gold has been confiscated in the past. This could happend also to btc, but there is no real value to confiscate gold or btc to avoid people using its store of value proprieties (maybe because now fiat are not tightned to gold?).

Why talk about India making crypto illegal? Is it illegal in China, Venezuela, Iran, Nigeria and lot of other countries already, but I read that in some of those country people are buying btc to protect their money from iperinfation.

If you are from US please note that last year your dollars lost a 25% buying power.

I took note about price not increasing anymore because of worldwide ban but I've doubts.

 

 

[GrandPapillon]

a lot of crypto anarchists keep mentioning trust as the main drive behind BTC and the BLC technology

the problem trust also means complete transparency to exist

with cryptos endless calculations in black box, exchange manipulations, and being a store of value for all money laundering businesses, the least we can say is that cryptos is a promoter of transparency and eventually trust

basically, mistrust is the name of the game for cryptos, and that's not a stable environment for a tech to develop

Cryptos are chaos, and all criminals and cheaters love chaos and confusion to make money

Edited March 15, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[lavezzi]

14 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

a lot of crypto anarchists keep mentioning trust as the main drive behind BTC and the BLC technology

the problem trust also means complete transparency to exist

with cryptos endless calculations in black box, exchange manipulations, and being a store of value for all money laundering businesses, the least we can say is that cryptos is a promoter of transparency and eventually trust

basically, mistrust is the name of the game for cryptos, and that's not a stable environment for a tech to develop

Cryptos are chaos, and all criminals and cheaters love chaos and confusion to make money

Why SEC is allowing public company to buy btc then?

Which is the most used currency for money laundering and drug business between btc, eth and USD?

What chaos have to do with criminals, is it not called Organized Crime? should we call them Organized Chaos Criminals then?

They just use the best tech available to have an hedge.

[bendejo]

On 2/16/2021 at 4:55 PM, Thaiophil said:

I invested a reasonable amount in Jan and my portfolio is now worth 50% more than my stake. 
 

All investments carry risks and rewards

If you, at this moment, cashed in your investment to a traditional currency, would you be able to reap that 50% gain?

 

[lavezzi]

19 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

a lot of crypto anarchists keep mentioning trust as the main drive behind BTC and the BLC technology

the problem trust also means complete transparency to exist

with cryptos endless calculations in black box, exchange manipulations, and being a store of value for all money laundering businesses, the least we can say is that cryptos is a promoter of transparency and eventually trust

basically, mistrust is the name of the game for cryptos, and that's not a stable environment for a tech to develop

Cryptos are chaos, and all criminals and cheaters love chaos and confusion to make money

allow me to add that btc is trustless without any need of a central authority verifying the transactions to avoid double spending.

The only thing miners have to belive is that the longest blockchain ledger (a public registry of all btc transactions since the first) is the honest one, all the other are not.

Fantastic!

[bendejo]

On 3/6/2021 at 2:38 AM, lavezzi said:

The question is why then Elon Musk bought a billion dollars of btc?

Because a billion dollars is less than 4% of his net worth (possibly much less, depending on how his stock did today).  He could lose it all and still not have to resort to selling his physical holdings.

 

[lavezzi]

3 minutes ago, bendejo said:

Because a billion dollars is less than 4% of his net worth (possibly much less, depending on how his stock did today).  He could lose it all and still not have to resort to selling his physical holdings.

 

If you wanted to invest 4% of your money where would you put them, in a random stock because you can afford to loose it or in something you belive has a value?

 

[bendejo]

6 minutes ago, lavezzi said:

or in something you believe has a value

faith is a slippery slope when navigating reality

That said, I wonder if a certain former president of the US (or his family members) are doing something along these lines.  It's the kind of grift they're attracted to.  I could see the one named Junior jumping in with both feet.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by bendejo

[Sharp]

Please no FUD here Indian is not going to Ban Crypto check out the latest interview with the Indian Finance minister...

Not allowed to post link here but google it you will see . 

[Susco]

1 hour ago, Sharp said:

Please no FUD here Indian is not going to Ban Crypto check out the latest interview with the Indian Finance minister...

Not allowed to post link here but google it you will see . 

Reuters is a credible news source, and these are the articles, as recent as yesterday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2B70F0

Bitcoin falls after weekend record high as India considers a ban

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2B60QP

India to propose cryptocurrency ban, penalising miners, traders - source

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Susco said:

Reuters is a credible news source, and these are the articles, as recent as yesterday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2B70F0

Bitcoin falls after weekend record high as India considers a ban

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2B60QP

India to propose cryptocurrency ban, penalising miners, traders - source

How on Earth do you ban a cryptocurrency being traded......surely, all you need is a VPN?

[GrandPapillon]

11 hours ago, lavezzi said:

Why SEC is allowing public company to buy btc then?

Which is the most used currency for money laundering and drug business between btc, eth and USD?

What chaos have to do with criminals, is it not called Organized Crime? should we call them Organized Chaos Criminals then?

They just use the best tech available to have an hedge.

I think the DoJ and the Treasury loves BTC for a simple reason, it is catching all the dirty money in the world, and when it does, they will seize it by banning any BTC transactions into other currency.

Elton Musk and a few tech billionaires are playing with this thing, they will be collateral damages, but they can afford it ????

but yes, using public companies money to buy BTC is silly, it's up to their board of directors to take actions against those who took such silly risks.

[GrandPapillon]

11 hours ago, bendejo said:

Because a billion dollars is less than 4% of his net worth (possibly much less, depending on how his stock did today).  He could lose it all and still not have to resort to selling his physical holdings.

 

absolutely, it's beer money for him ????