Cost for piling job

[joe999]

Hi,

 

Living in Bkk's suburbs, build a house here 20 years ago, brick and mortar, 2 levels, pretty thick beams and all...build on piles, more than 20m deep, given that the soil here is quite soft. House didn't move, no visible cracks...but I digress.

 

Considered for a while to do some upgrades, replace ceilings, improve insulation, paint and some other stuff. But given the mess that this will create, as well as the cost, I'm actually considering to make a smaller one next to it. 

 

Did a lot DYI around, garage, outdoor kitchen, with my latest, my mancave. 3mx6m, assembled it on my own over the course of 4 mth, working on average 3-4 hrs on it per day. Pretty light weight, metal frame with shera clading on the outside, gypsum board on the inside. The area where I build quite solid, several trees around, didn't use any piling. Just concrete blocks to raise it from the ground. Three years now and it didn't shift.

 

For my new house, wanted to use similar concept, but larger in size around 4mx15m, enough for 1 bedroom, bathroom, study, living & kitchen, again using steel frame. Just had an area cleared, nice site with good view, but right next to a pond. This area is really soft!

 

So in order to be safe, I will certainly need to get some piling work done. Anyone with and idea what this can cost? 

 

I had this done for my current house, but had a contractor doing it and the contract was for the complete house, so no idea what the cost for piling alone was.

 

I will probably need 8-10 piles, and might not need any further contractor work. Already worked on a bill of materials and have a fair idea on how much this will cost. But don't want to pull the trigger, without considering the cost for plling.

 

Any input will be much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Joe

[Yellowtail]

You have a house with pilings that are 20m deep?

 

[worgeordie]

16 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You have a house with pilings that are 20m deep?

 

That's why it has not moved.......

regards Worgeordie

[sometimewoodworker]

Still a reasonably common way to put in piles in some places

though this is a little old.

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by sometimewoodworker

[joe999]

Lol...good one...a bit too labour intensive...defeats some of my purpose, to do the job mostly on my own, without the headaches of dealing with people.

 

Given the load, or lack of in case of my new project, will certainly not need piles all the way down to 20+m. Probably will need to find someone with equipment to do some drilling and use those hexagon piles that are currently available at 6m long.

 

Any ideas?

[Buffy Frobisher]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

You have a house with pilings that are 20m deep?

 

 

My house is on 27 metre pilings and it's still sitting in mud. There's not much bedrock under Bangkok, with it sitting on an old river delta. Mine hasn't moved either - not a single crack in it after 17 years. A proper good job they did on it.

[Buffy Frobisher]

I used these guys to do some hydraulic piling in a very tight space under a maid's extension I had built onto the back of the house, where the original builders only used 3 metre piles and the extension was sinking. They did an excellent job, with very little mess, and managed to pour new piles under the existing structure in a workspace of only about 2 square metres. It's been as solid as a rock since.  https://www.poonsiri.com/ - I highly recommend them.

[joe999]

Hi Buffy,

 

Thanks for your reply, will look into that. The piles for my house went also around 25-26m deep.

 

For my new project, estimate that the whole 4x15m will not weight more than 14-16T, so I would think that 6m piles might be enough. Should there be some sinking, can always use jacks to lift it up and put some spacers. I've seen a lot of container homes on the net, and I'm looking at an area around 5 16ft containers. But rather then buying those and link them together, I'm looking at a complete frame, to be closed up and partitioned later.

[Yellowtail]

6 hours ago, Buffy Frobisher said:

 

My house is on 27 metre pilings and it's still sitting in mud. There's not much bedrock under Bangkok, with it sitting on an old river delta. Mine hasn't moved either - not a single crack in it after 17 years. A proper good job they did on it.

 

What are they core & pour? Surely they're not driving them in?

[sirineou]

One thing to consider would be  possible crack damage to the existing stricture  from the vibrations of the piles being driven next to it.

Voice your concern to the contactors and ask for advice. 

  

[kuma]

On 2/15/2021 at 7:59 PM, joe999 said:

Hi,

 

Living in Bkk's suburbs, build a house here 20 years ago, brick and mortar, 2 levels, pretty thick beams and all...build on piles, more than 20m deep, given that the soil here is quite soft. House didn't move, no visible cracks...but I digress.

 

Considered for a while to do some upgrades, replace ceilings, improve insulation, paint and some other stuff. But given the mess that this will create, as well as the cost, I'm actually considering to make a smaller one next to it. 

 

Did a lot DYI around, garage, outdoor kitchen, with my latest, my mancave. 3mx6m, assembled it on my own over the course of 4 mth, working on average 3-4 hrs on it per day. Pretty light weight, metal frame with shera clading on the outside, gypsum board on the inside. The area where I build quite solid, several trees around, didn't use any piling. Just concrete blocks to raise it from the ground. Three years now and it didn't shift.

 

For my new house, wanted to use similar concept, but larger in size around 4mx15m, enough for 1 bedroom, bathroom, study, living & kitchen, again using steel frame. Just had an area cleared, nice site with good view, but right next to a pond. This area is really soft!

 

So in order to be safe, I will certainly need to get some piling work done. Anyone with and idea what this can cost? 

 

I had this done for my current house, but had a contractor doing it and the contract was for the complete house, so no idea what the cost for piling alone was.

 

I will probably need 8-10 piles, and might not need any further contractor work. Already worked on a bill of materials and have a fair idea on how much this will cost. But don't want to pull the trigger, without considering the cost for plling.

 

Any input will be much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Joe

I had a place built a few months agoand we discussed price at a detailed enough level as i paid in installments as thresholds were met. Piling was a original optional item, and was priced at 40k for 9 pilings. I have asked about that here earlier and got replies that it was too little, too much and just right so there you go lol. In the end i think builder regretted the price as he had a backhoe to drive them in but also ended up getting  a boring machine come make some pilot holes...ground here is like cement.in the end only one went in almost all the way, they all had to be trimmed as they could not be sunk fully.

So there is a data point anyway. Good luck.

[joe999]

Hi Kuma,

 

Thank you for your input.

 

Contacted a few potential contractors, will see how it pans out. Cost wise, nobody ever knows what kind of quotations one gets at the end, but should not be anything crazy. Worked out that the weight of the structure will be around 120 kg/m2, total area 3.6x18m. Expect to space one pile every 3m, should make 14 piles total. There are some precast piles that are 6m long, I would think that these should be enough....again, 120kg/m2. Plan to divide it in 3 sections, so even if over time there is some tilting, 2 jacks can lift it and allow me to add some spacers. Worst case, get a small crane...

[PFMills]

On 2/16/2021 at 10:33 AM, Yellowtail said:

You have a house with pilings that are 20m deep?

 

That is normal in Bangkok   Our house is on 20M ones.  When a contractor built the Village office, single story, he also used 20M, I watched then do it.

On 2/15/2021 at 7:59 PM, joe999 said:

Hi,

 

Living in Bkk's suburbs, build a house here 20 years ago, brick and mortar, 2 levels, pretty thick beams and all...build on piles, more than 20m deep, given that the soil here is quite soft. House didn't move, no visible cracks...but I digress.

 

Considered for a while to do some upgrades, replace ceilings, improve insulation, paint and some other stuff. But given the mess that this will create, as well as the cost, I'm actually considering to make a smaller one next to it. 

 

Did a lot DYI around, garage, outdoor kitchen, with my latest, my mancave. 3mx6m, assembled it on my own over the course of 4 mth, working on average 3-4 hrs on it per day. Pretty light weight, metal frame with shera clading on the outside, gypsum board on the inside. The area where I build quite solid, several trees around, didn't use any piling. Just concrete blocks to raise it from the ground. Three years now and it didn't shift.

 

For my new house, wanted to use similar concept, but larger in size around 4mx15m, enough for 1 bedroom, bathroom, study, living & kitchen, again using steel frame. Just had an area cleared, nice site with good view, but right next to a pond. This area is really soft!

 

So in order to be safe, I will certainly need to get some piling work done. Anyone with and idea what this can cost? 

 

I had this done for my current house, but had a contractor doing it and the contract was for the complete house, so no idea what the cost for piling alone was.

 

I will probably need 8-10 piles, and might not need any further contractor work. Already worked on a bill of materials and have a fair idea on how much this will cost. But don't want to pull the trigger, without considering the cost for plling.

 

Any input will be much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Joe

When we had the car port built ,quite a decent size, we used KEMREX SCREW PILES with HoloRoof. May be worth talking to KEMREX.    .

 

On 2/16/2021 at 10:50 PM, Yellowtail said:

 

What are they core & pour? Surely they're not driving them in?

 

[PFMills]

2 minutes ago, PFMills said:

That is normal in Bangkok   Our house is on 20M ones.  When a contractor built the Village office, single story, he also used 20M, I watched then do it.

When we had the car port built ,quite a decent size, we used KEMREX SCREW PILES with HoloRoof. May be worth talking to KEMREX.    .

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, PFMills said:

 .

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by PFMills

[joe999]

2 minutes ago, PFMills said:

 

 

Hi, had in fact a look earlier today at KEMREX, seemed to be a good alternative...but looks expensive. If you don't mind me asking, what was the cost for your job? Will contact them to know more, in any case.

[PFMills]

On 2/16/2021 at 10:50 PM, Yellowtail said:

 

What are they core & pour? Surely they're not driving them in?

I'm sure it's been done but in a few years you would be able to leave to go shopping via the cracks 

[PFMills]

1 minute ago, joe999 said:

Hi, had in fact a look earlier today at KEMREX, seemed to be a good alternative...but looks expensive. If you don't mind me asking, what was the cost for your job? Will contact them to know more, in any case.

It was organised through Holoroof who built the structure. That was several years ago now and I believe I paid around 6000thb for each. had four. BUT of course they were only about 2M if recollect correctly, I'll pull out a couple of pics for you and post

[joe999]

Has one contractor getting back to me. Despite pointing out that the structure is really lightweight, he still said that the piles should be going down until hitting solid...meaning 20+ meters. For this, with the area of 3.6x18m, 14 points, cost will be around 10kb/point, using micro piles. While I can see that the quote might not be totally unreasonable, still believe it is quite an overkill to go that deep. He says that each point supports 15-20tons...that double of the weight of the whole metal frame structure!!!

 

If this turns out to really be necessary, might consider then to reduce the number of points and use stronger base frame for stiffness.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, joe999 said:

Has one contractor getting back to me. Despite pointing out that the structure is really lightweight, he still said that the piles should be going down until hitting solid...meaning

The real meaning is that that contractor has no understanding of the physics behind pile usage. There are many hundreds/thousands of buildings in Bangkok, millions elsewhere, where there is little chance of going down to a solid base. The piles work by friction/cohesion and are not End bearing pile. 
 

certainly there are End bearing pile buildings. You should talk to the Or Bor Tor and see what they advise for your area and building.

[PFMills]

Kemrex Piling

 

Size/length of pile used

 

A small pilot hole was drilled then the pile screwed in as shown.

For large piles a m/c is used

 

That is the top of the pile. then studs were welded

into the holes and a plate drilled to match and welded.

 

The plate is now a base for construction.

 

You can see that 'someone' changed the design of the supports during construction. The guy is a qualified Mechanical 

Engineer who designs and builds houses. He ran this job at the same time as a couple of other projects. Dropped

the guys off in the morning with instructions and collected them in the evening. Some days he was here most of the day.

He seems to do work for Holoroof quite often. Think they are friends. 

 

Those sheets are very good, little noise when it rains and strong. We discovered them at an Architecs Show.

Edited February 22, 2021 by PFMills

[joe999]

5 minutes ago, PFMills said:

Kemrex Piling

 

Size/length of pile used

 

A small pilot hole was drilled then the pile screwed in as shown.

For large piles a m/c is used

 

That is the top of the pile. then studs were welded

into the holes and a plate drilled to match and welded.

 

The plate is now a base for construction.

 

You can see that 'someone' changed the design of the supports during construction. The guy is a qualified Mechanical 

Engineer who designs and builds houses. He ran this job at the same time as a couple of other projects. Dropped

the guys off in the morning with instructions and collected them in the evening. Some days he was here most of the day.

He seems to do work for Holoroof quite often. Think they are friends. 

 

Those sheets are very good, little noise when it rains and strong. We discovered them at an Architec Show.

Thanks for the pictures. Contacted Kemrex on the weekend, they will get back to me in a day or two...funny, their office is about 1km from my place...small world.

 

As for asking at the Or For Tor, I have dealt with a lot of so called local "experts" here to get advise on a variety of issues, and their response has been almost always to use a "shotgun", regardless if you want to kill a bird or a fly.... 

 

In many cases, piles all the way down to 20+m are certainly justified...my house build 20years ago, no cracks, no settling....1000l tank on blocks, after 5 years, one side tilted about 5 cm....my mancave, 3x6m, build 3 years ago, light weight around 3000 kg, no piles, supported by 15 stacks of blocks, didn't move (but also not near water).

 

For my new project, can't take the same route that I took for my mancave. Weight/m2 will be less, when finished around 120kg/m2, but it is next to slope and a pond. So some subsiding is guaranteed. Some piles will be needed for sure...

 

The other thing that also keeps me thinking is that for a time, I considered getting a container "home" for my mancave, and even now for my new project. Several local companies that make these, all told me the same...they just need leveled blocks to put them on...and each 20ft container weights 2.500kg.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

58 minutes ago, joe999 said:

As for asking at the Or For Tor, I have dealt with a lot of so called local "experts" here

It is Or Bor Tor and the vast majority of them are not so called experts they are trained in the exact points you are asking about. Are all of them experts? Of course not. Do they sometimes give bad advice? Of course they do, but not often.

 

You have decided that Piles are needed so go ahead and put them in they will do no harm if drilled. You can drill piles into bedrock if you really want, totally useless but you can do it.

 

That your house has piles and hasn’t moved says nothing about the need for piles. That some soils (virtually all of Bangkok) need piles says nothing about your soil. If you know the geology in your area and have the background to calculate all the parameters then you will know exactly what is needed, if you don’t and won’t get information from those who do, then just over build by enough and your building will be fine. Sure you will be paying for much more than is needed, but hey it’s just money you can always work and get more.

Edited February 22, 2021 by sometimewoodworker

[joe999]

15 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It is Or Bor Tor and the vast majority of them are not so called experts they are trained in the exact points you are asking about. Are all of them experts? Of course not. Do they sometimes give bad advice? Of course they do, but not often.

 

You have decided that Piles are needed so go ahead and put them in they will do no harm if drilled. You can drill piles into bedrock if you really want, totally useless but you can do it.

 

That your house has piles and hasn’t moved says nothing about the need for piles. That some soils (virtually all of Bangkok) need piles says nothing about your soil. If you know the geology in your area and have the background to calculate all the parameters then you will know exactly what is needed, if you don’t and won’t get information from those who do, then just over build by enough and your building will be fine. Sure you will be paying for much more than is needed, but hey it’s just money you can always work and get more.

I'm certainly not the expert here...not doing any "locals" bashing, there are so called "experts" all over the world. But from my personal experiences over the last 20 years living here, for most of the jobs that I had done, had to re-do most of them by myself at a later stage.

 

In this area in particular, I will try to gather as many proposals and ideas and decide on what makes most sense.

 

Overbuilding here seems to be quite the norm, if at the end most proposals point to the use of deep piles, I might go for that...but will use less points of support and use thicker steel tube for the base of the frame.