SURVEY: Should Scotland seek independence from the UK?

[RuamRudy]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

Dyson wont be happy with Henry sitting in the corner ????.

Given how much he has donated to the Conservatives and his support for Brexit.

Odd he left the UK and moved to Singapore as soon as the referendum was done.

Very good point! But Dysons are more expensive than Henrys, I guess - they would be at least 250k a pop. 

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Whereas Scotland is governed by a left wing corrupt nationalist cabal.

The fact that the Scottish nationalists wish to remove themselves from the ethnically diverse United Kingdom and isolate itself in the North sea with no trade deals with it's closest trading partners is not a particularly progressive policy in my opinion.

It seems the majority Scots are waking up to the fact and support for second referendum is falling.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19159508.scottish-independence-quarter-scots-support-indyref2-next-year-poll-suggests/

Isolate? We want to have open borders with 27 other countries - not close those borders and fall back on mythical sense of superiority to insult them all. 

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Whereas Scotland is governed by a left wing corrupt nationalist cabal.

The fact that the Scottish nationalists wish to remove themselves from the ethnically diverse United Kingdom and isolate itself in the North sea with no trade deals with it's closest trading partners is not a particularly progressive policy in my opinion.

It seems the majority Scots are waking up to the fact and support for second referendum is falling.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19159508.scottish-independence-quarter-scots-support-indyref2-next-year-poll-suggests/

Oh we are back to believing polls again.

So no trade deal with Brexitland in the event of independence? Are you sure about that?

You understand trade goes both ways over that border? You understand Scotland exports electricity to the south? You understand a lot of Scottish produce travels out of Britain via English ports?

You want to jeopardise all of that for some petty act of vengeance?

Sounds like the classic reaction of an extreme nationalist. 

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Given how much he has donated to the Conservatives and his support for Brexit.

Just highlights the legitimacy and integrity of the government's procurement process. Thanks.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

Oh we are back to believing polls again.

So no trade deal with Brexitland in the event of independence? Are you sure about that?

You understand trade goes both ways over that border? You understand Scotland exports electricity to the south? You understand a lot of Scottish produce travels out of Britain via English ports?

You want to jeopardise all of that for some petty act of vengeance?

Sounds like the classic reaction of an extreme nationalist. 

Scotland is England's third largest trading partner - a fact often overlooked by those sabre rattlers who think we are still in the era of gunboat diplomacy.

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Isolate? We want to have open borders with 27 other countries - not close those borders and fall back on mythical sense of superiority to insult them all. 

We? Is that the Royal we?

Your countrymen voted 55% Remain in 2014 and currently don't want another referendum.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19159508.scottish-independence-quarter-scots-support-indyref2-next-year-poll-suggests/

 

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Oh we are back to believing polls again.

So no trade deal with Brexitland in the event of independence? Are you sure about that?

You understand trade goes both ways over that border? You understand Scotland exports electricity to the south? You understand a lot of Scottish produce travels out of Britain via English ports?

You want to jeopardise all of that for some petty act of vengeance?

Sounds like the classic reaction of an extreme nationalist. 

Hilarious how a self proclaimed hardcore Scottish nationalist tries to insult other people by calling them nationalists.

We might give you a trade deal after a few years. But we'll be the A side so don't expect too much.

It's all pie in the sky anyway. Scotland doesn't want another vote. You're a vocal minority. You'll be staying unfortunately, no matter how much you want to isolate yourselves from this ethnically diverse union.

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Hilarious how a self proclaimed hardcore Scottish nationalist tries to insult other people by calling them nationalists.

We might give you a trade deal after a few years. But we'll be the A side so don't expect too much.

It's all pie in the sky anyway. Scotland doesn't want another vote. You're a vocal minority. You'll be staying unfortunately, no matter how much you want to isolate yourselves from this ethnically diverse union.

I'm not a blood and soil nationalist. Hence my position of wanting to rejoin the EU.

We can send you an email outlining a proposed trade deal but without electricity I dont see how you will be able to read it.

An ethnically diverse union? The one which England and Wales voted to isolate itself from foreigners and prevent immigration?

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I'm not a blood and soil nationalist. Hence my position of wanting to rejoin the EU.

We can send you an email outlining a proposed trade deal but without electricity I dont see how you will be able to read it.

An ethnically diverse union? The one which England and Wales voted to isolate itself from foreigners and prevent immigration?

Yes the rest of the UK is far more ethnically diverse than Scotland which has a much higher percentage of white citizens.

Given the Scottish nationalists wishes to keep it that way by leaving our fantastically diverse union to isolate itself in the North Sea, blood and soil (while not a term I really like) could be used to describe many supporters of Scottish Independence.

[RuamRudy]

17 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Yes the rest of the UK is far more ethnically diverse than Scotland which has a much higher percentage of white citizens.

Given the Scottish nationalists wishes to keep it that way by leaving our fantastically diverse union to isolate itself in the North Sea, blood and soil (while not a term I really like) could be used to describe many supporters of Scottish Independence.

It could only be used if you wish to demonstrate that you haven't a clue about the things on which you opine. 

[Surelynot]

6 hours ago, tebee said:

for not sharing their destructive nature.

Fair point........Brexiteers have shared out the destructive nature of Brexit.....although the fishing industry and NI have received more than their fair share of that destruction.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Surelynot

[Rookiescot]

59 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Yes the rest of the UK is far more ethnically diverse than Scotland which has a much higher percentage of white citizens.

Given the Scottish nationalists wishes to keep it that way by leaving our fantastically diverse union to isolate itself in the North Sea, blood and soil (while not a term I really like) could be used to describe many supporters of Scottish Independence.

But clearly blood and soil nationalism can not apply to a country which wished to remain in the EU. 

It would appear that Scotland wants to enter a union with 27 other countries rather than be shackled to a xenophobic right wing one. 

[Foggy Mario]

How can Scotland leave UK to then join EU where it will have far less say than it does now?

having to join a club of 27 countries where most are bigger and more influential than Scotland sounds an absurd idea.

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Foggy Mario said:

How can Scotland leave UK to then join EU where it will have far less say than it does now?

having to join a club of 27 countries where most are bigger and more influential than Scotland sounds an absurd idea.

Try telling that to the Irish (after you have looked at their growth figures for the last 5 years)

[JonnyF]

30 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

But clearly blood and soil nationalism can not apply to a country which wished to remain in the EU. 

It would appear that Scotland wants to enter a union with 27 other countries rather than be shackled to a xenophobic right wing one. 

Scotland doesn't even want another vote.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19159508.scottish-independence-quarter-scots-support-indyref2-next-year-poll-suggests/

It's the minority nationalist extremists that want to break away from multi cultural, ethically diverse UK and isolate itself in the North Sea.

[JonnyF]

16 minutes ago, Foggy Mario said:

How can Scotland leave UK to then join EU where it will have far less say than it does now?

having to join a club of 27 countries where most are bigger and more influential than Scotland sounds an absurd idea.

A few extremists on this forum do not represent Scotland. Scotland voted to Remain in 2014 and even now they don't want a second referendum on the subject.

[bkkcanuck8]

24 minutes ago, Foggy Mario said:

How can Scotland leave UK to then join EU where it will have far less say than it does now?

having to join a club of 27 countries where most are bigger and more influential than Scotland sounds an absurd idea.

Scotland has about 10% the population of England -- and England has 80+% of the total population of the UK. 

In the EU - made up of 27 countries.   Countries in the EU with about the same population as Scotland or less:  Denmark, Finland, Slovakia, Ireland, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Latvia, Estonia, Cyprus, Luxembourg, Malta...   The single largest country in the EU (Germany) and has about 22% of the EU population... Scotland in the EU would be a sovereign state within the EU, while in the UK it is only sovereign when it comes to fielding certain sports teams.  (they apparently even have to get permission to hold a referendum to leave, while the UK as a sovereign state in the EU did not).   Being a Union of 27 countries, countries have to find common ground with other countries (and there are always countries with the same viewpoint).

Edited March 16, 2021 by bkkcanuck8

[RuamRudy]

The Police and Crime bill, being rushed through Parliament by the tories at the moment, will require certain ethnic minorities to have to carry papers confirming their ethnicity with them at all times or face 3 months in jail and fines of up to £2,500.

What a truly revolting country the UK has become. 

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Scotland has about 10% the population of England -- and England has 80+% of the total population of the UK. 

In the EU - made up of 27 countries.   Countries in the EU with about the same population as Scotland or less:  Denmark, Finland, Slovakia, Ireland, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Latvia, Estonia, Cyprus, Luxembourg, Malta...   The single largest country in the EU (Germany) and has about 22% of the EU population... Scotland in the EU would be a sovereign state within the EU, while in the UK it is only sovereign when it comes to fielding certain sports teams.  (they apparently even have to get permission to hold a referendum to leave, while the UK as a sovereign state in the EU did not).   Being a Union of 27 countries, countries have to find common ground with other countries (and there are always countries with the same viewpoint).

(they apparently even have to get permission to hold a referendum to leave, while the UK as a sovereign state in the EU did not).   Being a Union of 27 countries, countries have to find common ground with other countries (and there are always countries with the same viewpoint).

Let's stop portraying Scotland as the victim here, if England wanted to leave our Island Nation it would have to go down the same road, this is how our constitution works and will always work even after the EU has long gone.

Let's not forget that Scotland has had a referendum on partitioning the UK, it failed miserably to attract enough support to do this. We know that Scotland doesn't want to leave our Union, that is not in doubt as proven. Why suddenly are some wannabe Rob Roys so determined for Scotland to have one, for example everyone in my household knows that my dog Ting Tong doesn't like mushrooms, so it would be totally pointless trying to feed him some, a total waste of time. Imagine one of my neighbours turning up with a punnet of mushrooms and saying 'these are for your dog' to which I would reply 'he doesn't like mushrooms' and then he keeps insisting he should have them anyway, what a waste of time for all concerned I'm sure you'll agree.

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The Police and Crime bill, being rushed through Parliament by the tories at the moment, will require certain ethnic minorities to have to carry papers confirming their ethnicity with them at all times or face 3 months in jail and fines of up to £2,500.

What a truly revolting country the UK has become. 

Combine this with Trumpian voter suppression, dictating what teachers might teach in their 'spare time', 10 years for damaging a statue, but 8 years for rape (sentence, not time served)........it is all going the wrong way.

At least Johnson is the best PM other than Churchill, we have ever had.

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The Police and Crime bill, being rushed through Parliament by the tories at the moment, will require certain ethnic minorities to have to carry papers confirming their ethnicity with them at all times or face 3 months in jail and fines of up to £2,500.

What a truly revolting country the UK has become. 

Very much like Thailand then, but it doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the kingdom, but there again I don't try and find fault with the UK constantly like some on here.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Very much like Thailand then, but it doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the kingdom, but there again I don't try and find fault with the UK constantly like some on here.

No, Thailand does not discriminate against specific ethnic minorities. 

But I can tell you who did require certain ethnic minorities to carry papers at all times - nazi Germany. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by RuamRudy

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Combine this with Trumpian voter suppression, dictating what teachers might teach in their 'spare time', 10 years for damaging a statue, but 8 years for rape (sentence, not time served)........it is all going the wrong way.

At least Johnson is the best PM other than Churchill, we have ever had.

It must be a tough time at the moment for Labour supporters, you have my sympathy. No matter how much you think the Tories are they are still streets ahead of the opposition.????????????

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

No, Thailand does not discriminate against specific ethnic minorities. 

But I can tell you who did require certain ethnic minorities to carry papers at all times - nazi Germany. 

We have to carry papers at all time here in Thailand, did you not know and are you drifting away from the topic again?

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Scotland doesn't even want another vote.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19159508.scottish-independence-quarter-scots-support-indyref2-next-year-poll-suggests/

It's the minority nationalist extremists that want to break away from multi cultural, ethically diverse UK and isolate itself in the North Sea.

So why are you so frightened of having another referendum if you are so sure the unionists will win?

Oh yeah I keep forgetting you want Scotland to leave but you dont want to give the opportunity to do it.

Clear as mud.

[Surelynot]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

It must be a tough time at the moment for Labour supporters, you have my sympathy. No matter how much you think the Tories are they are still streets ahead of the opposition.????????????

Could not agree more..........absolute mystery .......and the worst of it is.......what is the way forward?

145,000 covid deaths, the destruction of the economy with an atrocious half-baked Brexit deal, the potential break up of the Union and the real possibility of a return of troubles in NI.......and he is still ahead in the polls.

We are genuinely doomed.

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

We have to carry papers at all time here in Thailand, did you not know and are you drifting away from the topic again?

Your attempts at amelioration are genuinely not a good look, Vogie. To try to liken ALL foreigners being required to carry papers in a foreign country with the proposal by our government that only certain specific sections of our own countrymen must comply with the same requirements or face jail is patent nonsense. 

But it is entirely relevant this thread. I can understand your wish to not have it spoken about, but as we were discussing how Brexit is motivating more and more Scots to want to leave the union, and as Brexit was marketed as a racist endeavour with our politicians fanning those flames, the slow descent into genuine fascist state continues - hence the relevance to this topic.

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Could not agree more..........absolute mystery .......and the worst of it is.......what is the way forward?

145,000 covid deaths, the destruction of the economy with an atrocious half-baked Brexit deal, the potential break up of the Union and the real possibility of a return of troubles in NI.......and he is still ahead in the polls.

We are genuinely doomed.

Maybe it proves beyond doubt that there IS a difference in outlook between Scottish and English voters. All this talk of 'we are one people' clearly isn't reflected in our politics. While the English seem to love to be lorded over by a hard right, authoritarian and corrupt elite, Scots very much seek a centrist, more egalitarian and outward looking future.

[JonnyF]

30 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So why are you so frightened of having another referendum if you are so sure the unionists will win?

Oh yeah I keep forgetting you want Scotland to leave but you dont want to give the opportunity to do it.

Clear as mud.

The Scots themselves don't want a referendum.

They voted 55% to Remain in 2014.

Maybe you should respect their wishes.

[vogie]

25 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Could not agree more..........absolute mystery .......and the worst of it is.......what is the way forward?

145,000 covid deaths, the destruction of the economy with an atrocious half-baked Brexit deal, the potential break up of the Union and the real possibility of a return of troubles in NI.......and he is still ahead in the polls.

We are genuinely doomed.

Don't be such a down in the mouth, I read it this morning that two thirds of the covid deaths may have been caught in hospital, if so I want my claps back. Our union isn't going anywhere, you do know that nationalism and socialism are poles apart and you didn't strike me of being a nationalist so why you are offerring your support to such a "movement" is a mistery.........oh wait.

Nobody wants any return to the troubles in NI and nor do we ignore a democratic vote just to appease the terrorists. Come on 'Surely' I have known you long enough to know that you know it makes sense.