Wise Borderless Account - Pensions

[anchadian]

I have just opened a Wise account depositing money and account now verified.

Do I now just telephone UK state pension and my personal pensions and request they transfer monies to my borderless account?

Thanks.

 

[Peter Denis]

Not saying it is not possible, but be aware that when using the Monthly Foreign Income Transfer method (+65K or +40K to be transferred each and every month with foreign origins proven) that it might be difficult then to prove to Immigration that those transfers originated from abroad.

If you are using that Monthly Foreign Income Transfer method to meet the financial requirements imposed by Immigration, it would be preferable to have you state pension transferred to your UK bank-account and then transfer the funds you need directly to your Thai personal bank-account.  Doing so you would have no problem providing evidence to Immigration that the funds originated from abroad (transferred using Wise to your UK bank-account) as well as the source (your pension statement).  Unfortunately it seems that doing so is NOT possible for UK bank-account holders, as I understand that in the UK your bank-account will be closed when not residing in the UK.  So that method is only possible for nationals of countries that do not require bank-account holders to reside in the country,

Of course, if you are using the +800K Funds-in-Bank method there would be NO need to prove the foreign origin of the funds once you are on 1-year extensions of stay.  And in that case transferring your pension funds to your borderless account and transferring funds to your personal Thai bank-account for the amount and at the moment you need them, would be a very worthwhile option. 

[anchadian]

38 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Not saying it is not possible, but be aware that when using the Monthly Foreign Income Transfer method (+65K or +40K to be transferred each and every month with foreign origins proven) that it might be difficult then to prove to Immigration that those transfers originated from abroad.

If you are using that Monthly Foreign Income Transfer method to meet the financial requirements imposed by Immigration, it would be preferable to have you state pension transferred to your UK bank-account and then transfer the funds you need directly to your Thai personal bank-account.  Doing so you would have no problem providing evidence to Immigration that the funds originated from abroad (transferred using Wise to your UK bank-account) as well as the source (your pension statement).  Unfortunately it seems that doing so is NOT possible for UK bank-account holders, as I understand that in the UK your bank-account will be closed when not residing in the UK.  So that method is only possible for nationals of countries that do not require bank-account holders to reside in the country,

Of course, if you are using the +800K Funds-in-Bank method there would be NO need to prove the foreign origin of the funds once you are on 1-year extensions of stay.  And in that case transferring your pension funds to your borderless account and transferring funds to your personal Thai bank-account for the amount and at the moment you need them, would be a very worthwhile option. 

Many thanks for your detailed response.

I am indeed using one Thai bank account for the 800K Funds-in-Bank method and I will be using the transfer of pensions to my Wise account and when required, I will transfer monies to my other Thai bank account.

[Moonlover]

Yes you can. When the state pension is deposited into your borderless account, the origin will be clearly stated. There will be no problem proving where it came from to immigration should they ask. So far I haven't had to. I just present them with a letter from the IPC stating what my annual pension is and that has been accepted. You can arrange the deposit by phone or letter.

57 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Unfortunately it seems that doing so is NOT possible for UK bank-account holders, as I understand that in the UK your bank-account will be closed when not residing in the UK. 

This is not true. I haven't lived in the UK for 15 years, but I still have an active account there. And I'm not the only one by a long way.

[Peter Denis]

7 minutes ago, anchadian said:

Many thanks for your detailed response.

I am indeed using one Thai bank account for the 800K Funds-in-Bank method and I will be using the transfer of pensions to my Wise account and when required, I will transfer monies to my other Thai bank account.

Yes, when using the +800K Funds-in-Bank method there is NO need to prove the foreign origin of the funds you would be transferring for your living expenses.  So, having your pension transferred to your Wise borderless account and then transferring from that borderless account to your Thai bank-account when you need funds would be a very worthwhile option.

Note: There is also no need to use a different Thai bank-account for that.   But many retirees opt for a Fixed Deposit Account to keep the +800K, and use a separate Savings Account (often from same Bank) for their monthly living expenses.  That way you can never accidentally slip under the 800K tresshold, but it is recommended to have at least 801.000 THB on that FD account, in case your bank deducts a service fee for having such an account before they pay out your interest. 

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Yes you can. When the state pension is deposited into your borderless account, the origin will be clearly stated. There will be no problem proving where it came from to immigration should they ask. So far I haven't had to. I just present them with a letter from the IPC stating what my annual pension is and that has been accepted. You can arrange the deposit by phone or letter.

This is not true. I haven't lived in the UK for 15 years, but I still have an active account there. And I'm not the only one by a long way.

@Tanoshi and @Pib might provide some comments here.

I am not saying you are wrong, but I am not a UK citizen so cannot speak from personal experience on that issue.

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

(transferred using Wise to your UK bank-account)

FROM your UK Bank account...no?

[KannikaP]

23 minutes ago, anchadian said:

Many thanks for your detailed response.

I am indeed using one Thai bank account for the 800K Funds-in-Bank method and I will be using the transfer of pensions to my Wise account and when required, I will transfer monies to my other Thai bank account.

Why are you worrying about money, pension or otherwise,  transfers if you have the 800k in the bank. You just send as much and wheneveryou need/want.

It is so easy to transfer between UK banks these days, almost immediate, so why not leave the pensions being paid into whichever bank, and simply transfer to Wise, and subsequently to Thai bank.

 

You could go down the combination method if you want by transferring say 50k per month via Wise so it shows as an FTT, and have only 200k sitting in the Thai bank doing nothing.

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, KannikaP said:

FROM your UK Bank account...no?

The issue being that - according to what I read - your UK Bank will close your bank-account when you are not residing in UK.  But @Moonlover wrote that he hasn't lived in the UK for 15 years, but that he still has an active account there. And that he is not the only one by a long way.  Hence my invite to Tanoshi  and PiB to shed some light on this.

[KannikaP]

1 minute ago, Peter Denis said:

The issue being that - according to what I read - your UK Bank will close your bank-account when you are not residing in UK.  But @Moonlover wrote that he hasn't lived in the UK for 15 years, but that he still has an active account there. And that he is not the only one by a long way.  Hence my invite to Tanoshi  and PiB to shed some light on this.

I have had a Nationwide account for years, they know my Thai telephone number. The account is still open. They only know what you tell them!

[foreverlomsak]

2 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The issue being that - according to what I read - your UK Bank will close your bank-account when you are not residing in UK.  But @Moonlover wrote that he hasn't lived in the UK for 15 years, but that he still has an active account there. And that he is not the only one by a long way.  Hence my invite to Tanoshi  and PiB to shed some light on this.

Provided the account holder still has an address in the UK for correspondence, the bank will be none the wiser whether or not he resides in the UK. I have an offshore account within the UK banking system (in Jesey), but I believe from others that you cannot open one now without a UK address.

[Tanoshi]

19 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

This is not true. I haven't lived in the UK for 15 years, but I still have an active account there. And I'm not the only one by a long way.

Which bank?

According to the terms and conditions of UK banks if you don't maintain a UK address they can close your account. You don't have to be resident, but a UK address is required to maintain an account.

[anchadian]

My question has been answered.

Thanks to all.

[foreverlomsak]

8 minutes ago, anchadian said:

My question has been answered.

Thanks to all.

Considering opening a borderless account, can you advise please how difficult was it to open and what documents did you have to supply (online and/or hardcopies).

[Moonlover]

11 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

Considering opening a borderless account, can you advise please how difficult was it to open and what documents did you have to supply (online and/or hardcopies).

You open a basic account first. All you need do is upload a copy of your passport. The borderless account is an add-on option which is simplicity itself to open.

[Moonlover]

25 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Which bank?

According to the terms and conditions of UK banks if you don't maintain a UK address they can close your account. You don't have to be resident, but a UK address is required to maintain an account.

I use Nationwide. Not only have I not lived in the UK, I have not had an address there either. They have always known my current location, be it Saudi Arabia, China, Egypt or here in Thailand.

There is nothing in their T & Cs that says I cannot do this, in fact there is even a 'how to' guide on their website for those going to live abroad.

[AlfHuy]

53 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The issue being that - according to what I read - your UK Bank will close your bank-account when you are not residing in UK.  But @Moonlover wrote that he hasn't lived in the UK for 15 years, but that he still has an active account there. And that he is not the only one by a long way.  Hence my invite to Tanoshi  and PiB to shed some light on this.

I am not a UK citizen but lived there for 11 years. Left UK almost 5 years ago and still hold different UK bank accounts including a share-dealing account.

[AlfHuy]

48 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Which bank?

According to the terms and conditions of UK banks if you don't maintain a UK address they can close your account. You don't have to be resident, but a UK address is required to maintain an account.

Not true. I have various UK accounts but no longer any UK address. They all know my Thai address and send me bank cards and bank statements to my Thai address.

[dabhand]

On 3/16/2021 at 2:33 AM, Tanoshi said:

Which bank?

According to the terms and conditions of UK banks if you don't maintain a UK address they can close your account. You don't have to be resident, but a UK address is required to maintain an account.

Not correct.

I have UK Bank accounts, among others, with Halifax / First Direct / Nationwide. All these accounts are operational and have my Thai address as my only point of contact, no UK address. I am not resident in the UK although I do have a UK passport. From time to time I get contacted by these banks to confirm my tax residency, for which I indicate Thailand but state that, as I do not work here, I have had no need for a Tax ID. That has satisfied their requirements, thus far.

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, dabhand said:

Not correct.

I have UK Bank accounts, among others, with Halifax / First Direct / Nationwide. All these accounts are operational and have my Thai address as my only point of contact, no UK address. I am not resident in the UK although I do have a UK passport. From time to time I get contacted by these banks to confirm my tax residency, for which I indicate Thailand but state that, as I do not work here, I have had no need for a Tax ID. That has satisfied their requirements, thus far.

+1

My gut feeling is that UK banks will only move to close expats' accounts where these have fallen into disuse. The old maxim of "use it or lose it" applies here, I think.

There was certainly a recent issue arising from some UK banks arbitrarily closing EU expats' accounts as a result of Brexit. But these closures arose from those particular banks not having the necessary licences/permits to operate in the EU following Brexit, rather than those EU expat account holders not having UK addresses.

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by OJAS

[KannikaP]

On 3/16/2021 at 10:20 AM, AlfHuy said:

I am not a UK citizen but lived there for 11 years. Left UK almost 5 years ago and still hold different UK bank accounts including a share-dealing account.

Yes. They only know what you tell them.

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, OJAS said:

There was certainly a recent issue arising from some UK banks arbitrarily closing EU expats' accounts as a result of Brexit. But these closures arose from those particular banks not having the necessary licences/permits to operate in the EU following Brexit, rather than those EU expat account holders not having UK addresses.

More info:-

https://www.internationalinvestment.net/news/4023246/british-expats-eu-significant-disruption-uk-banks-close-accounts