Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[THAIJAMES]

9 hours ago, sas_cars said:

I'll also be applying probably by June/July. Let's see how our applications go this time.

I think it might depend on how long this government lasts.  I remember when I applied for PR, the turmoil of government change cause multi year delays.   Good luck.

[GarryP]

27 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

I think it might depend on how long this government lasts.  I remember when I applied for PR, the turmoil of government change cause multi year delays.   Good luck.

I'm not so sure about that. After the coup they cleaned up the citizenship process and it speeded up considerably. One of the few positive things I can say about that. Hopefully, it will remain more streamlined for you new applicants. 

[THAIJAMES]

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

I'm not so sure about that. After the coup they cleaned up the citizenship process and it speeded up considerably. One of the few positive things I can say about that. Hopefully, it will remain more streamlined for you new applicants. 

Thanks, I waited 8 years for them to process my PR application. If they can cut that time in half for Citizenship I will be happy.  55555

[kst]

On 3/11/2021 at 12:15 PM, david143 said:

hi brother.
No i don't use Covid Visa, i extend my Non O visa .
It will expire on 12 march 2021 , but i already extended on 9 March 2021.

 

 

Ok thanks for info. I will be extending my visa too as time is running out. 

[qualtrough]

On 3/12/2021 at 7:34 AM, yankee99 said:

I dont think these 5 are a representation of the average applicant at least not from what i observed at the moi and SB

Not at all. But the average applicant doesn't read Thailand Tattler. I don't either, but I just happened to come across it. In my MOI group the vast majority were South Asians, followed by other Asians, particularly Chinese. I think I was one of two farangs, perhaps three.

[sas_cars]

On 3/12/2021 at 4:37 AM, THAIJAMES said:

Thanks, I waited 8 years for them to process my PR application. If they can cut that time in half for Citizenship I will be happy.  55555

Lol. My wait was 6 years. Let's see how long our citizenship applications take. Fingers crossed

[THAIJAMES]

I had previously posted that when contacting the US embassy and consulate about getting a notarization of intent to renounce citizenship, that their answer was that they are not authorized to provided such a notarization.  (I asked a number of times to clarify at both the embassy and consulate)

So today I went and tried my luck anyways at the consulate here in Chiang Mai.  I presented them with the two letters, intent to renounce and sui juiris.

I am happy to report that the consul signed both letters without asking any questions.  (I don't think he actually read what was in the letters.)  He just asked me what was in the documents.  I said documents for my Thai nationality application.

[Neeranam]

On 3/16/2021 at 10:54 AM, THAIJAMES said:

I had previously posted that when contacting the US embassy and consulate about getting a notarization of intent to renounce citizenship, that their answer was that they are not authorized to provided such a notarization.  (I asked a number of times to clarify at both the embassy and consulate)

So today I went and tried my luck anyways at the consulate here in Chiang Mai.  I presented them with the two letters, intent to renounce and sui juiris.

I am happy to report that the consul signed both letters without asking any questions.  (I don't think he actually read what was in the letters.)  He just asked me what was in the documents.  I said documents for my Thai nationality application.

Congratulations!

I believe that the embassies will always do it but they just don't want to take responsibility. The UK embassy refused to say they did it, by email, but did do it. If they refuse to do it, it is a violation of your basic right to apply for Thai citizenship. The Thai authorities do not accept this from any other authority. 

 

[heiri007]

Well-informed source says authorities did not yet submit list of applicants MOI-interviewed since July 2020 to palace for signing.

[david143]

7 hours ago, heiri007 said:

Well-informed source says authorities did not yet submit list of applicants MOI-interviewed since July 2020 to palace for signing.

FYI 
1 member in group already received call yesterday for Oath Ceremony Today. 02/04/2021

His interview was 30 July 2020.

 

 

[heiri007]

1 hour ago, david143 said:

FYI 
1 member in group already received call yesterday for Oath Ceremony Today. 02/04/2021

His interview was 30 July 2020.

 

 

Truly good news, thanks for the update @david143

[Arkady]

On 3/17/2021 at 12:36 PM, Neeranam said:

Congratulations!

I believe that the embassies will always do it but they just don't want to take responsibility. The UK embassy refused to say they did it, by email, but did do it. If they refuse to do it, it is a violation of your basic right to apply for Thai citizenship. The Thai authorities do not accept this from any other authority. 

 

 

The requirement for this intent affidavit was introduced in 2009 apparently in order to dissuade people from applying for citizenship in the wake of parliament's 2008 amendment to the Nationality Act, allowing husbands of Thai citizens to apply without PR which was intended to lessen the gender discrimination against Thai women.  The MOI tried to resist this amendment as much as it could and succeeded in getting it watered down to its current format which still discriminates against Thai women but to a lesser extent than before.  Furthermore, without even the transparency of a ministerial regulation, which has the force of law but can be challenged in the constitutional court, they sneakily changed the guidelines to require this affidavit which has no specific backing in the Nationality Act and is thus difficult to enforce. 

 

It is ironic that the embassies are now jumping on the band wagon, perhaps under pressure originating from the MOI and behaving in a manner that dissuades people from applying. 

[THAIJAMES]

4 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

The requirement for this intent affidavit was introduced in 2009 apparently in order to dissuade people from applying for citizenship in the wake of parliament's 2008 amendment to the Nationality Act, allowing husbands of Thai citizens to apply without PR which was intended to lessen the gender discrimination against Thai women.  The MOI tried to resist this amendment as much as it could and succeeded in getting it watered down to its current format which still discriminates against Thai women but to a lesser extent than before.  Furthermore, without even the transparency of a ministerial regulation, which has the force of law but can be challenged in the constitutional court, they sneakily changed the guidelines to require this affidavit which has no specific backing in the Nationality Act and is thus difficult to enforce. 

 

It is ironic that the embassies are now jumping on the band wagon, perhaps under pressure originating from the MOI and behaving in a manner that dissuades people from applying. 

Thank you for the insightful information.

[Neeranam]

21 hours ago, Arkady said:

It is ironic that the embassies are now jumping on the band wagon, perhaps under pressure originating from the MOI and behaving in a manner that dissuades people from applying

This is disgraceful.

The British embassy has gone from an institution that helped its citizens to a place that bows to the Thai government to make life difficult for Brits here, and even lies to them about services offered. 

 

Back in 2017, I spoke to an employee of the consulate who told me to make an appointment to get my birth certificate legalised. After making further appointments with Thai authorities, booked flights and hotel for my family, the consulate folks me they couldn't do this service. Also, a Thai employee rudely shouted/ordered "you telephone" when I was going through the entrance. 

 

[Arkady]

34 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

This is disgraceful.

The British embassy has gone from an institution that helped its citizens to a place that bows to the Thai government to make life difficult for Brits here, and even lies to them about services offered. 

 

Back in 2017, I spoke to an employee of the consulate who told me to make an appointment to get my birth certificate legalised. After making further appointments with Thai authorities, booked flights and hotel for my family, the consulate folks me they couldn't do this service. Also, a Thai employee rudely shouted/ordered "you telephone" when I was going through the entrance. 

 

 

I had some nasty experiences with the Thai staff at the Bangkok consulate.  When I asked for that affidavit and was the first person to ask for it in the days you could just walk in, one of them said they couldn't do that but tried to make me renounce citizenship without any other citizenship which they definitely can't do.  I tried to ask to speak to someone more knowledgeable but was summarily kicked out.  I decided to give it another try a couple of weeks later before writing to the ambassador whom I had met.  Luckily when I went back I got one of the few British consular staff who said of course they could do that and couldn't have been more helpful.  I have also encountered horrible, offensively rude Thai staff (always women) in the Swiss and German consulates when applying for Schengen visas for the missus under EU rules prior to Brexit.  In the German consulate I demanded to see a German consular official and managed to get a German guy who agreed with me and told the grumpy Thai staffer to do as I said, i.e. accept the application under EU freedom of movement rules with less documentation.  The Thai staffers on both occasions talked to my wife as if she was a naughty little girl trying to do something wrong and obviously assumed she was a bar girl, if married to a farang. I had to intervene and quote EU law to them in both cases, which they seemed unable to understand but I have to blame the embassies for hiring such low quality local staff and not bothering to train them properly. In most cases they have now either given up providing the services or have outsourced them.

 

My brother became a US citizen and joined the US foreign service as a second career where he worked in a couple of different consular posts.  He was shocked to hear of the British cheap Charlie practice of appointing local staff who are ignorant of British laws and regulations to consular jobs where they deal with Brits.  He said the US foreign service only allows accredited US diplomats to deal with Americans face to face in their citizen services section.  The local staff only work in support roles.  Another difference is that the US foreign service still helps dual citizens in countries where they are dual nationals.  In Mexico most of the US citizens they had to provide consular assistance to where dual citizens.

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, Arkady said:

Another difference is that the US foreign service still helps dual citizens in countries where they are dual nationals. 

I was led to believe that as Naturalized Thais, we can't get assistance from our former embassies, US included. 

[Arkady]

22 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I was led to believe that as Naturalized Thais, we can't get assistance from our former embassies, US included. 

 

It may well be true of the British Embassy but like I said most of the Americans given consular assistance in Mexico were also Mexican citizens and some were not even fluent in English.  Many were incarcerated or even murdered there but all received consular assistance, if requested by themselves or their families.  In Thailand, if you recall, there was a Thai American called Joe Gordon who was banged up for lese majeste on a trip to Thailand to seek lower cost medical treatment.  The US ambassador intervened vigorously in the case and make herself rather unpopular iwith Thais. Eventually he was pardoned and allowed to return to the US.

[heiri007]

18 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I was led to believe that as Naturalized Thais, we can't get assistance from our former embassies, US included. 

 

How will the respective embassy know?

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, heiri007 said:

 

How will the respective embassy know?

I don't know how the embassy will know. 

Another issue is that we, as naturalized citizens, can't make use of our other nationality when in Thailand.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, heiri007 said:

 

How will the respective embassy know?

 

If they ask to see your passport, they will know that you are in Thailand with out a Thai visa.  If they make a record of the letters from SB informing them that people have been granted Thai nationality, which would trigger revocation of original nationality at some embassies. There may be something that makes them suspect you are a dual national, particularly in the case of dual nationals by birth, e.g. the existence of a Thai  parent.

 

The old blue Brit passports had a warning in the back that made things fairly clear,"UK nationals who are also nationals of another country cannot be protected by her HM representatives against the authorities of that country. If, under the law they are liable for for any obligation(such as military service), the fact that tey are United Kingdom nationals does not exempt them from it."  I don't suppose the US would guarantee intervention in the case of someone drafted for military service either but they might try in certain circumstances. Nevertheless, make clear that they regard all US citizens as qualified for consular protection, whereas the British government makes clear the oopposite is true which leaves it the discretion to provide assistance but not the obligation.  I can't see the British ambo sticking his neck out for a dual national Brit arrested for LM like the US ambo did.  The Brits seem to have become more and more craven towards Thai governments over the years in desperation to get weapons and other deals, viz the caving in over pension letters, not to mention the disgraceful behaviour of the FCO over the brutal murders of the two young Brits in Koh Tao.  Gone are the days when a gunboat commanded by a lieutenant R.N. would have settled the matter!

 

Re the military service issue.  I remember talking to a British consular official who had served in Bangladesh.  She said she had requests for help at least once a month from families of young British born Bangladeshi males who had been collared for military service, usually on their first ever visits to Bangladesh.  She said there was absolutely nothing they could for them.  The families should have known that a male travelling to Bangladesh on a Bangladeshi passport while of military age was an extremely high risk.  The only ways to avoid this were either formally renounce the right to Bengladeshi nationality at the London embassy prior to the trip or avoid visiting the country while still of military age.  The red EU passports dropped the warning, which made it less obvious to those at risk.

 

Another interesting point to consider is to what extent Thai diplomatic missions abroad are willing to assist dual national Thais abroad.  They seem to accept Thai born Thais as their own, even though they are obviously dual nationals.  Of course there are many countries that have no Thai embassies or embassies where the staff have little knowledge of the language or the country.  Unlike Western diplomats Thai diplos are not required to know languages other than English, Chinese, Japanese etc.  I met a senior MOFA official who told me he spent 8 years at the Thai embassy in Mexico City and never attempted to learn any Spanish at all.  In a country like that doesn't have much in the way of resources available in English and where English is not widely spoken, you have a very constrained ability to grasp what is going on without being fluent in Spanish.   

[dbrenn]

On 4/6/2021 at 6:04 PM, Neeranam said:

I was led to believe that as Naturalized Thais, we can't get assistance from our former embassies, US included. 

You can only get UK consular assistance (for all it's worth) while in a country where you do not also hold citizenship. If you are a Thai citizen, you have no right to UK consular assistance while in Thailand, even if you are also a UK citizen.

[david143]

until now there is no Special RG for men publish yet.
Backlogs are getting higher now due to Oath takers from August 2020  and now New oath Takers in April 2021.
I don't know whats going on.
SB said AUG 2020 oath takers already signed by Minister to Published , but they also don't know why RG took so long, RG for men suppose to published in the starting of April 2021 which is still pending OR there will be a huge Publish over 80 to 100 names in one row.

As per my Case officer, he said Lang songkran dai na. *** After songkran but another drama now is Covid**** lets see.

Cheero
 

[THAIJAMES]

On 4/7/2021 at 9:51 AM, heiri007 said:

 

How will the respective embassy know?

The Thai government does send out a letter to the embassy to inform them that they you have become a thai national.

[jayboy]

On 4/7/2021 at 12:07 PM, Arkady said:

The Brits seem to have become more and more craven towards Thai governments over the years in desperation to get weapons and other deals,

 

I think that's an inaccurate summary (can cite supportive cases and also question some of the examples you cite) but will not argue the case here.The key factor is that the US is a great power and the UK is not, and thus has much less leverage.In the imperial British heyday even loose associations with British citizenship could prompt the despatch of gunboats.The famous example is that of Don Pacifico.This was an international incident provoked by the actions of a Greek mob, who in 1847 ransacked and burnt the house of Don Pacifico, a Portuguese moneylender who was also a Jew, injuring his wife and children. Pacifico, who had been born in Gibraltar and could therefore claim British nationality, demanded compensation from the Greek government. Insisting on Pacifico's rights as a British subject, the British Foreign Secretary, Lord Palmerston, took up the case in 1850 and decided to reinforce his entitlement to compensation by blockading Greece with the British fleet.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

On 4/9/2021 at 9:46 AM, david143 said:

until now there is no Special RG for men publish yet.
Backlogs are getting higher now due to Oath takers from August 2020  and now New oath Takers in April 2021.
I don't know whats going on.
SB said AUG 2020 oath takers already signed by Minister to Published , but they also don't know why RG took so long, RG for men suppose to published in the starting of April 2021 which is still pending OR there will be a huge Publish over 80 to 100 names in one row.

As per my Case officer, he said Lang songkran dai na. *** After songkran but another drama now is Covid**** lets see.

Cheero
 

Jay yen yen mate, I hope it's a matter of days or few weeks for you. Soon you'll be on the bright side too.

 

[david143]

For April MOI interviews has been forward to next month, there will be no meeting this month.
FYI

 

[Kwarium]

On 4/9/2021 at 1:28 PM, THAIJAMES said:

The Thai government does send out a letter to the embassy to inform them that they you have become a thai national.

Really? Any more info on this? Is it from MOI? Can’t imagine they would send a letter for each person granted citizenship. 

 

Regardless, presenting a USA passport at a US embassy for consular services could not be construed as going against the Thai regulation to not use the passport of original nationality while in Thailand.

 

We also need to show both passports when checking in for flights to the country of original nationality, otherwise ‘no visa’ would preclude us from being checked in. (New dual citizens may not realize this.)

 

 

[yankee99]

On 4/9/2021 at 9:46 AM, david143 said:

until now there is no Special RG for men publish yet.
Backlogs are getting higher now due to Oath takers from August 2020  and now New oath Takers in April 2021.
I don't know whats going on.
SB said AUG 2020 oath takers already signed by Minister to Published , but they also don't know why RG took so long, RG for men suppose to published in the starting of April 2021 which is still pending OR there will be a huge Publish over 80 to 100 names in one row.

As per my Case officer, he said Lang songkran dai na. *** After songkran but another drama now is Covid**** lets see.

Cheero
 

8 months since i took the oath and silence ????

[david143]

2 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

8 months since i took the oath and silence ????

same ship bro

[david143]

yesterday i talked my case in-charge and he said even MOI postpone April 2021 interviews.
i asked him any idea for RG, he was speechless or unless he don't know, or he don't want to share.