Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[khongaeng]

On 6/10/2021 at 10:06 PM, Arkady said:

 

I found this on Tilleke and Gibbon's website regarding a relaxation of the foreign exchange regulations in 2019.

Outward transfers

When conducting outward transfers of foreign currency in an amount less than USD 200,000, the customer is no longer required to provide supporting documentation to commercial banks. This represents an increase from the previous threshold of USD 50,000.

 

When I switched my Bangkok Bank accounts over to my new Thai identity, I asked them this question.  They said that even though I had previously set up the special ability to remit funds back to my home country as a foreigner (which required a work permit, passport, etc.), I would have no problem remitting as much as 10 million baht per day.  So this would be in line with the 200k USD that you mentioned.  I have never had the chance to test that limit, but that is what they told me, after talking the the central branch on the phone while I was sitting there.  

[qualtrough]

I did my MOI interview in September last year. I have seen different estimates/reports, but what is the current best guess for MOI to oath at the moment?

[heiri007]

7 hours ago, qualtrough said:

I did my MOI interview in September last year. I have seen different estimates/reports, but what is the current best guess for MOI to oath at the moment?

 

Had MOI interview in July 2020 and oath in April, just before the new virus wave put the brakes again on everything. You should be on oath schedule again once the reopening progresses. Patience, patience.

[david143]

Just now, heiri007 said:

 

Had MOI interview in July 2020 and oath in April, just before the new virus wave put the brakes again on everything. You should be on oath schedule again once the reopening progresses. Patience, patience.

Qual  Brother check with your SB officer asap.

[qualtrough]

2 hours ago, heiri007 said:

 

Had MOI interview in July 2020 and oath in April, just before the new virus wave put the brakes again on everything. You should be on oath schedule again once the reopening progresses. Patience, patience.

Thanks. Hopefully not over a year, but who knows right now? 

[qualtrough]

On 6/16/2021 at 8:17 AM, david143 said:

Qual  Brother check with your SB officer asap.

I lined my SB officer yesterday and promptly got this reply:

 

อยู่ในขั้นตอน รอในหลวง อนุญาต ให้เป็นคนไทยครับ

 

Which I translate as saying It's 'It is at the step of waiting for the King to approve your being Thai.-

 

So I am confused. I was under the impression that you did the MOI interview, and then if you pass that the next step is to take the Oath, and then the King signs off on that, and then it gets published in the RG. Have I mixed up some steps?

[david143]

1 minute ago, qualtrough said:

I lined my SB officer yesterday and promptly got this reply:

 

อยู่ในขั้นตอน รอในหลวง อนุญาต ให้เป็นคนไทยครับ

 

Which I translate as saying It's 'At the step of waiting for the King to approve your being Thai.-

 

So I am confused. I was under the impression that you did the MOI interview, and then if you pass that the next step is to take the Oath, and then the King signs off on that, and then it gets published in the RG. Have I mixed up some steps?

After MOI interview your documents decided by MOI TEAM are you eligible or not, once they passed it forward to Minister Officer, after it will forward to HM King Office.

 

Once HM King sign your name you will receive a call from SB for OATH

[qualtrough]

33 minutes ago, david143 said:

After MOI interview your documents decided by MOI TEAM are you eligible or not, once they passed it forward to Minister Officer, after it will forward to HM King Office.

 

Once HM King sign your name you will receive a call from SB for OATH

So I did mix that up. Thanks for clarifying. So seems like good news then, just waiting for the signature, then oath, then RG.

[david143]

Just now, qualtrough said:

So I did mix that up. Thanks for clarifying. So seems like good news then, just waiting for the signature, then oath, then RG.

Perfectly YES

 

[Arkady]

19 minutes ago, david143 said:

After MOI interview your documents decided by MOI TEAM are you eligible or not, once they passed it forward to Minister Officer, after it will forward to HM King Office.

 

Once HM King sign your name you will receive a call from SB for OATH

 

There is one more step.  After you have passed the interview with the little MOI committee your application is forwarded to the big MOI committee which has representatives from the same 14 government agencies, 7 of which are parts of the MOI, but more senior levels.  There is no interview with the Big Committee and the meeting usually takes place within a couple of months of the little committee meeting.  I am told this is mainly a formality as any objectives or queries have usually been raised by the little committee.  However, in extremely rare cases, the big committee  has knocked cases back to the little committee to interview again to clarify something and could of course knock it back to SB.  But cases that are knocked back to SB by one of the committees are usually rejected but can reapply, if they can fix whatever the problem was. 

 

My file was knocked back to SB before the MOI interview and my officer told me I was lucky as I would have been rejected, if I had gone before the committee.  The problem in my application was that SB insisted on making me apply on the basis of having a Thai wife instead of PR, even though I tried to insist on applying as a PR because our marriage had not been registered for 3 years.  SB claimed that the 3 year rule didn't apply to PRs and seemed to think any risk was worth taking to avoid the singing, even though I sung the songs in front of them with no problem.  The MOI sent the file back to change the basis of the application to PR and I lost 6 months and had to redo the salary letter and some of the other documents and make multiple additional trips to SB.

 

Many of the rejections are due to mistakes made by SB because the MOI doesn't deign to talk to police and I am sure this is much more common for applicants who apply to SB in the provinces. 

[THAIJAMES]

Today I got a call from the prime minister's office to meet at a local coffee shop for an interview.  I just lodged my application for citizenship only one month ago in Chiang Mai.  The officer at SB didn't mention the prime minister's office would be interviewing me.

I've already had a home interview from the local police, anybody have any insight on the purpose for this interview as I haven't seen this mentioned here before.

[david143]

Just now, THAIJAMES said:

Today I got a call from the prime minister's office to meet at a local coffee shop for an interview.  I just lodged my application for citizenship only one month ago in Chiang Mai.  The officer at SB didn't mention this.

I've already had a home interview from the local police, anybody have any insight on the purpose for this interview as I haven't seen this mentioned before.

National Intelligence office
NIA

Its True November 2020 my friend got visited from NIA officers in the morning around 10 Am in Samutprakarn, and later after around 4 hours of visit , officer called and informed his wife that interview and visit is Passed, we are sending back your documents to SB.

 

[THAIJAMES]

12 minutes ago, david143 said:

National Intelligence office
NIA

Its True November 2020 my friend got visited from NIA officers in the morning around 10 Am in Samutprakarn, and later after around 4 hours of visit , officer called and informed his wife that interview and visit is Passed, we are sending back your documents to SB.

 

Thank you that makes sense now. So that's obviously an important interview.  Also very good news because I had been warned that the national intelligence agency hadn't responded to the last 14 applicants in Chiang Mai.

[david143]

Just now, THAIJAMES said:

Thank you that makes sense now. So that's obviously an important interview.

frankly i went to Head office direct in Bangkok , and interview was only 4 min.
And i was done-

[THAIJAMES]

Just now, david143 said:

frankly i went to Head office direct in Bangkok , and interview was only 4 min.
And i was done-

A lady called me so I suspect she'll or they will be more thorough since we're meeting at a coffee shop.

[david143]

1 minute ago, THAIJAMES said:

A lady called me so I suspect she'll or they will be more thorough since we're meeting at a coffee shop.

Relax ,  just formality .

[THAIJAMES]

13 minutes ago, david143 said:

Relax ,  just formality .

Thank you I appreciate it good to know.

[Arkady]

4 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

Today I got a call from the prime minister's office to meet at a local coffee shop for an interview.  I just lodged my application for citizenship only one month ago in Chiang Mai.  The officer at SB didn't mention the prime minister's office would be interviewing me.

I've already had a home interview from the local police, anybody have any insight on the purpose for this interview as I haven't seen this mentioned here before.

 

As others have said, it must be the NIA which comes under the PM's office.  Their job is to check that your details are all correct as on the form.  In my case, I met them in McD's which was common in those days.  The officer (only one in those days) spent about 15-20 minutes asking basic questions about my life in Thailand that were answered on the application form.  He focused a lot on who owned my house for some reason.  I don't think this was to check whether I had made an illegal purchase of land but to double check on my relationship with the missus,  I had just transferred it to her from my company, having a rather paranoid fear of a thorough investigation, and the answer that it was owned by the missus seemed to be the answer he was looking for.  I suppose that if you put your house in the wife's name, it means that it is a real marriage.  (Now in joint names.)  However, he didn't ask to the see the title deed.  There were also questions about how we met etc.  It was all very friendly, although he launched into diatribe about how much he hated lawyers coming with applicants a propos of a rather pretty female lawyer with a male farang applicant who was next in the queue.  The pretty lawyer was rather rude and interrupted our session to demand to know how long they would have to wait and why they had to meet in McD's.  He said it was because he was given no budget by the government to entertain applicants anywhere finer but wanted to meet them in the centre of town (at Rajprasong) for their own convenience. Then he started the diatribe with them sitting just in ear shot, saying lawyers were totally unnecessary in the process and charged huge fees that were a complete waste of money.  He asked me how much I thought lawyers charged and I told him that I had heard of law firms charging B300k for the service which seemed to rile him up even more.

[yankee99]

After the SB interview i believe this is by far the most important and most detailed. In my case it was 20-30 minutes and they separated us and asked the questions individually. Basically they're confirming all your documents and asking additional questions about your relationship. If all your info is correct and you pass the interview i like to believe your chances of getting citizenship are very very high. 

 

fwiw the moi interview is shorter, easier and basically a formality. 

[Arkady]

10 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

After the SB interview i believe this is by far the most important and most detailed. In my case it was 20-30 minutes and they separated us and asked the questions individually. Basically they're confirming all your documents and asking additional questions about your relationship. If all your info is correct and you pass the interview i like to believe your chances of getting citizenship are very very high. 

 

fwiw the moi interview is shorter, easier and basically a formality. 

 

The MoI is only about 5 minutes, if you apply on the basis of having a Thai wife, and she can interpret and help you with the answers. If you apply on the basis of PR, it is a couple of orders of magnitude harder.  You are on your own and it is about 15 minutes including the singing. You can be asked some quite difficult questions.  They are entitled to fail you for poor spoken Thai and oral comprehension, if you apply on the basis of PR, but in practice I have only ever heard of people failing for being unable to sing the songs.  They got 3 or 4 chances to get them write and, if they couldn't make it, they were rescheduled for another interview several months later.  

 

But basically the process is a tick the box assessment and, if you meet the qualifications, you pass.  I have heard many theories that they are highly subjective and only pass people they like the look of and that high level referees are a must.  I have also heard countless times that having a Thai child puts you head and shoulders above anyone who doesn't.  None of this is true.  You either tick the boxes or you don't.

 

 

 

[THAIJAMES]

4 hours ago, Arkady said:

He focused a lot on who owned my house for some reason.  I don't think this was to check whether I had made an illegal purchase of land but to double check on my relationship with the missus,  I had just transferred it to her from my company, having a rather paranoid fear of a thorough investigation, and the answer that it was owned by the missus seemed to be the answer he was looking for.

Fascinating story.  The local tambon police came around a couple weeks ago about 12 of them to interview. They were very detailed and asked all kinds of questions for about an hour.

One of the questions was about my house and they wanted to see the chanote.   After they were satisfied they came back a few hours later to have me sign what was a very professional and detailed report of the interview.

 

[THAIJAMES]

1 hour ago, yankee99 said:

After the SB interview i believe this is by far the most important and most detailed. In my case it was 20-30 minutes and they separated us and asked the questions individually. Basically they're confirming all your documents and asking additional questions about your relationship. If all your info is correct and you pass the interview i like to believe your chances of getting citizenship are very very high. 

 

fwiw the moi interview is shorter, easier and basically a formality. 

 

Interesting mine in Chiang Mai by SB was very easy. I wasn't asked any questions and was given a full score on everything possible.

 

But that's probably because the officer was very thorough before the application was submitted and we had communicated extensively in Thai throughout the whole time using line and phone conversation.

So he already knew my Thai language skills, my personality and my understanding of Thailand and culture.  Because of covid I sang the national anthem and Royal anthem at home and sent them by line.

 

Today He did mention not to worry about the NIA interview and that it was just a formality but I will take your advice and be well prepared for a grilling 5555.

 

 

 

[THAIJAMES]

55 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

If you apply on the basis of PR, it is a couple of orders of magnitude harder.  You are on your own and it is about 15 minutes including the singing. You can be asked some quite difficult questions.  They are entitled to fail you for poor spoken Thai and oral comprehension, if you apply on the basis of PR, but in practice I have only ever heard of people failing for being unable to sing the songs.  They got 3 or 4 chances to get them write and, if they couldn't make it, they were rescheduled for another interview several months later.  

 

But basically the process is a tick the box assessment and, if you meet the qualifications, you pass.  I have heard many theories that they are highly subjective and only pass people they like the look of and that high level referees are a must.  I have also heard countless times that having a Thai child puts you head and shoulders above anyone who doesn't.  None of this is true.  You either tick the boxes or you don't.

 

 

 

Thank you for the insight. In my case I am a PR that speaks very good Thai and can easily sing both anthems without mistake.   So far the citizenship process seems easier than getting permanent residence.

 

But that's probably because I fully understand all the documents now and the way the bureaucracy works.

[THAIJAMES]

An interesting note about my application is that the SB officer in Chiang Mai said that my application would be harder because I am single and have no ties to Thailand.  He actually said jokingly come back and apply after you are married.

 

The local police that came to interview me were also confused that I wasn't married and wondered how I could apply for citizenship. they weren't familiar with permanent residents.

 

Also before I filed my application the SB officer said that the last 16 applicants were still awaiting replies from Nia and it's been almost 2 years and no replies have been received.

 

So he was very surprised today when I mentioned to him that I have an interview with the Nia next week.

 

We both couldn't understand why the other applicants hadn't been called up before me and why am I being interviewed only one month after lodging my application.

 

Is it possible that because I'm a PR I'm a much lower risk as I've already been vetted and gone through the whole process 6 years ago?

Or are they just not liking all the applicants that have gone before me? seems very strange.

 

[Arkady]

44 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

An interesting note about my application is that the SB officer in Chiang Mai said that my application would be harder because I am single and have no ties to Thailand.  He actually said jokingly come back and apply after you are married.

 

The local police that came to interview me were also confused that I wasn't married and wondered how I could apply for citizenship. they weren't familiar with permanent residents.

 

Also before I filed my application the SB officer said that the last 16 applicants were still awaiting replies from Nia and it's been almost 2 years and no replies have been received.

 

So he was very surprised today when I mentioned to him that I have an interview with the Nia next week.

 

We both couldn't understand why the other applicants hadn't been called up before me and why am I being interviewed only one month after lodging my application.

 

Is it possible that because I'm a PR I'm a much lower risk as I've already been vetted and gone through the whole process 6 years ago?

Or are they just not liking all the applicants that have gone before me? seems very strange.

 

 

The whole myth about having to have a Thai wife and child is clearly nonsense when you consider that historically the vast majority of naturalised Thais have been Chinese and people from the Indian Subcontinent who tended to be married to someone from their own country.  The only way they could produce Thai children was by getting them naturalised too or having them after their own naturalisation.  I also know loads of farangs who were bachelors when they applied. Of course they had to deal with questions about why they hadn't found a Thai wife yet, but it had no impact on their applications.

 

When I applied for PR it was relatively easy and cheap (total B52k) but we thought it was a complete pain in the neck at the time and it took nearly a whole year which seemed like for ever.  But with Immigration thinking of new banana skins to throw in the path of PR applicants every year, the process has morphed into something monstrous and fees went up astronomically several years ago.  I have noticed citizenship going a little bit the same way but not too much. SB are very civilised and don't take the same view as Immigration that all foreigners are out and out fraudsters out to pull a fast one on them.  I think the citizenship process is now much easier than the current PR process and it's certainly much cheaper.

[THAIJAMES]

6 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

The whole myth about having to have a Thai wife and child is clearly nonsense when you consider that historically the vast majority of naturalised Thais have been Chinese and people from the Indian Subcontinent who tended to be married to someone from their own country.  The only way they could produce Thai children was by getting them naturalised too or having them after their own naturalisation.  I also know loads of farangs who were bachelors when they applied. Of course they had to deal with questions about why they hadn't found a Thai wife yet, but it had no impact on their applications.

 

When I applied for PR it was relatively easy and cheap (total B52k) but we thought it was a complete pain in the neck at the time and it took nearly a whole year which seemed like for ever.  But with Immigration thinking of new banana skins to throw in the path of PR applicants every year, the process has morphed into something monstrous and fees went up astronomically several years ago.  I have noticed citizenship going a little bit the same way but not too much. SB are very civilised and don't take the same view as Immigration that all foreigners are out and out fraudsters out to pull a fast one on them.  I think the citizenship process is now much easier than the current PR process and it's certainly much cheaper.

I completely agree.  I found SB extremely helpful and actually making extra effort to make sure that I will suceed in the process as opposed to immigration which seemed to fight me at every step of the process.  It took me 7 years to get PR. Towards the end the officer actually said ok we put you through enough I am sending your application to the committee for final approval.  My big mistake was that I provided a lot of extra documents to support my case including a ministers letter of recommendation thinking it would improve my chances and speed up the process.  The complete opposite was true as they scrutinized every detail and asked for more supporting documents and took forever to decide among themselves. The lesson with thai immigration is provide the least information possible required as they will try to find fault in everything.  On the other hand SB actually gave back some documents saying that they will only complicate the process.

 

The good thing about the immigration process is that I was under consideration for 7 years giving me easy renewal of my temporary visa every six months.

[Neeranam]

I think it's normal for us to want to pull our 'Pu Yai' out of the woodwork to gain an edge in/speed up our Citizenship process. However, I think it is often detrimental in the smoothness of the process nowadays for the following reason.

All Thai government officials, including police, have their own jurisdiction, which many think of as their own little kingdom. After being brought up in the Thai hierarchical social culture, they don't like it, resent it, or feel threatened when the leader of another kingdom comes to 'ask' for a favour, or show their importance in being a rung or two higher on the ladder than the officer. The whole กบุญคุณ  philosophy is a part of Thai society, but isn't appreciated in the Citizenship process, IMHO. Unless the ผู้ใหญ่ is extremely high, govt. minister and above, it could delay the process considerably. 

I thought of asking a person in a very high social position to come as a witness in the early stages(as I thought it might help) but luckily never. When my 'normal' friends went, they had a great rapport with my officer and even exchanged phone numbers/business cards. Then, I thought how different it would have been taking the big guns there.  

It reminds me of when I worked at a university in Khon Kaen. I had to go to immigration in Nong Kai in those days and when I went, my boss said I go take a ride in their minivan(going to a funeral). So when it dropped me off at the immigration, all the people decide to come in with my, including the number one at the uni. They were all dressed in the white uniforms and the immigration officer was fuming. He ordered them to go away and spoke to me alone, saying to come back the next month. The next time, he smiled and said, "come back next month". this went on for nearly a year, which was very inconvenient for me, until I was taught my lesson. There was absolutely no real reason for only getting 1 months extensions to my visa. 

 

[Marcati]

Good news today.  I was informed by the SB that my application has been completely processed by them and sent to the MOI for next steps.  There were a total of 51 names submitted, which includes a lot of Indian, Chinese and Taiwanese families in groups.

 

Now let's see how long before we get called by the small committee for the next interview.....

[Arkady]

13 minutes ago, Marcati said:

Good news today.  I was informed by the SB that my application has been completely processed by them and sent to the MOI for next steps.  There were a total of 51 names submitted, which includes a lot of Indian, Chinese and Taiwanese families in groups.

 

Now let's see how long before we get called by the small committee for the next interview.....

Congrats.

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, Marcati said:

Good news today.  I was informed by the SB that my application has been completely processed by them and sent to the MOI for next steps.  There were a total of 51 names submitted, which includes a lot of Indian, Chinese and Taiwanese families in groups.

 

Now let's see how long before we get called by the small committee for the next interview.....

Congratulations. Seems to be about 1.5 years from 'sent to MOI' to MOI interview'.