Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[samran]

Can an unmarried foreign male apply for citizenship without PR?

don't think so. Neither can an unmarried foreign female.

Only if married (for both men and women) does there exist the 'straight to citizenship' route. In all cases though, 3 years of tax returns would be needed from memory, and all by the males in the relationship (whether they are Thai or not).

[tombkk]

My only paranoid concern now is that the outgoing Minister is going to approve a whole batch of them off the back of today's meeting, and my wife won't be one of them!

Out of curiosity: Did the outgoing Minister indeed approve that whole batch?

[samran]

My only paranoid concern now is that the outgoing Minister is going to approve a whole batch of them off the back of today's meeting, and my wife won't be one of them!

Out of curiosity: Did the outgoing Minister indeed approve that whole batch?

Would be very hard for me to know, given we weren't in it. But unlikely.

[Richard4849]

I have heard from several people that they received approvals from the Ministry in the past couple weeks. Don't know if it was a mass signing, though, or a handful. But some have definitely been signed in recent weeks.

[tombkk]

Thanks Richard, quite interesting.

[skippybangkok]

I have heard from several people that they received approvals from the Ministry in the past couple weeks. Don't know if it was a mass signing, though, or a handful. But some have definitely been signed in recent weeks.

Pretty amazing..... like PR's, this has been on hold too for alonngggggggg time.

[Richard4849]

Actually, citizenship applications never stopped dead like PR applications did. There has been steady movement.

[skippybangkok]

Actually, citizenship applications never stopped dead like PR applications did. There has been steady movement.

cool....guess i will be in line in about 2 yrs then

[samran]

So was in Thailand for a few days and went to touch base with the folks at the nationality office for handling our 'delayed' processing.

In the course of a friendly chat found out that spouses of Thai citizens, apart from having a reduced income threshold, the language test and need to sing the anthems are waived.

[Arkady]

So was in Thailand for a few days and went to touch base with the folks at the nationality office for handling our 'delayed' processing.

In the course of a friendly chat found out that spouses of Thai citizens, apart from having a reduced income threshold, the language test and need to sing the anthems are waived.

This is in line with the 2008 amendments that waived the requirements for 5 years' residence and knowledge of the Thai the language for males with Thai spouses. What they do in practice is to assign points for spoken Thai and aural comprehension based on the meetings you have with the officer that handles your application. Apart from that the new reading and writing test and the singing are optional. You have to request them, if you want a few more points. This may be a good idea for those with reasonable Thai who need more points due to not having PR and other factors. I did it all for kicks and got 15 out of 15 for Thai language but it hasn't speeded up my interview at the Interior.

[tombkk]

So was in Thailand for a few days and went to touch base with the folks at the nationality office for handling our 'delayed' processing.

In the course of a friendly chat found out that spouses of Thai citizens, apart from having a reduced income threshold, the language test and need to sing the anthems are waived.

Good! I can't sing...

[samran]

@tombkk

My wife was rather pleased when I told her this, and we had hired a Thai teacher to coach her on the likely questions and the various anthems.

[beano2274]

For Citizenship, say you were getting an income from abroad, but payed Thai tax on it, and had the relevant receipts, then would this qualify you?

Am married to a Thai, income is more than required and have extension for over 3years unbroken.

[samran]

To be honest Beano, I'm not sure. I recall needing a letter from my employer confirming my salary (this was for my wife's application where it is all about the husband, not the wife), so I don't know how they'd take a overseas employer. In addition to that, I presume you've had unbroken extensions of stay?

The easiest thing to do is to go down and chat to them. They are friendly and have plenty of time on their hands given not too many people make it down there.

[beano2274]

To be honest Beano, I'm not sure. I recall needing a letter from my employer confirming my salary (this was for my wife's application where it is all about the husband, not the wife), so I don't know how they'd take a overseas employer. In addition to that, I presume you've had unbroken extensions of stay?

The easiest thing to do is to go down and chat to them. They are friendly and have plenty of time on their hands given not too many people make it down there.

I have to do my 90days soon, so will ask the guy at the Immigration office maybe he could help me, he already suggested I go on a Retirement Visa as it is easier to do for them, although am only 45.

[aidenai]

I have to do my 90days soon, so will ask the guy at the Immigration office maybe he could help me, he already suggested I go on a Retirement Visa as it is easier to do for them, although am only 45.

Applications for Thai Citizenship are handled by the Special Branch of the Police Headquarters not by Immigration.

[beano2274]

I have to do my 90days soon, so will ask the guy at the Immigration office maybe he could help me, he already suggested I go on a Retirement Visa as it is easier to do for them, although am only 45.

Applications for Thai Citizenship are handled by the Special Branch of the Police Headquarters not by Immigration.

i know but am asking the questions there first to ascertain if it is worth me going to the CID.

[samran]

I have to do my 90days soon, so will ask the guy at the Immigration office maybe he could help me, he already suggested I go on a Retirement Visa as it is easier to do for them, although am only 45.

Applications for Thai Citizenship are handled by the Special Branch of the Police Headquarters not by Immigration.

i know but am asking the questions there first to ascertain if it is worth me going to the CID.

They won't know with any great certainty. Plus, the rules seem to change slightly from time to time, and aren't well publicized.

The folks at Special Branch are incredibly friendly. They'll take you through the requirements and will give you a first level response as to your suitability for application.

Put it this way: they won't accept your application unless they know it is going make it out their front door and make it to the Ministry. If they are happy with your eligibility, they will let you know.

[Richard4849]

For Citizenship, say you were getting an income from abroad, but payed Thai tax on it, and had the relevant receipts, then would this qualify you?

Am married to a Thai, income is more than required and have extension for over 3years unbroken.

Why would you pay Thai taxes on offshore income?

[Arkady]

For Citizenship, say you were getting an income from abroad, but payed Thai tax on it, and had the relevant receipts, then would this qualify you?

Am married to a Thai, income is more than required and have extension for over 3years unbroken.

The answer is categorically no. The Nationality Act requires applicants for naturalization to have a profession and evidence of this is required in the form of a work permit, letter from employer in Thailand and three years' notarised tax receipts of income from salary in Thailand. If you are a shareholder in the company you work for, you also need to provide a complete set of company documents. They have zero interest in your income from outside Thailand, presumably because they have no way of verifying it and the law states that a profession is required, not income from whatsoever source. In my case, they were not even interested in my dividend income from listed Thai stocks which is greater than my salary, or in seeing evidence of the portfolio. On the other hand, they are interested in seeing title deeds of any condos you own in Thailand and want to know the value which will be entered into a statement of your assets to be confirmed by your two witnesses. Regulations also require you to provide a bank statement showing more than B80,000. Bear in mind that much of what they require is dictated by the wording of the 1965 Nationality Act which is amended only rarely. If you read that and the latest ministerial guidelines on applications for naturalisation, much will become clear.

Like Richard, I also cannot understand why anyone would volunteer to pay Thai tax on offshore income, since the Revenue Code only requires this when the income is remitted to Thailand within 12 months of arising and there are no checks on this. If you want to apply for Thai nationality, you must get a job here first and be in it for three complete calendar years before you apply. You have to be still in a job when you apply (but not necessarily the same job) and when you are interviewed by the Interior Ministry. I can't say if anyone checks after that point but it would be safer to maintain a work permit till you get your ID card, since having a profession in Thailand is a key requirement and you don't want to be pipped at the post. And don't forget that you also need to show evidence that you have contributed regularly to registered Thai charities. This doesn't need to be massive amounts but the regulations state clearly that they need to see evidence of donations going back several years, not just one recent dollop.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Arkady

[scotbeve]

For me it would be peace of mind to be able to rest comfortably each day not knowing where the curent rule are heading as you can not be sure what will happen next week let alone next year if you are on retirement or marriage visa's. Congratulatons on hanging in there calmly without getting too rattled by it all.

Agreed Artsi.... seems immigration laws have changed and/or enforced or forgotten/disregarded by officials every month for the 30 yrs. I've been here!!! TIT

[Arkady]

As it is unlikely that any more applications will be approved this year, here is the list of approvals in 2011 which amounted to 35 people, of which four were women adopting the nationality of their Thai husbands, as noted in brackets. For some reason the announcements give the nationality in the latter cases but not for anyone else. You can try to figure out what nationality they might be from the names, if you can penetrate the Thai spellings. I have done the best I could with the transliterations but some of the Thai spellings are so weird, it is anyone's guess how they really spell or pronounce their names in English. I apologise to anyone whose name has been mispelled. I have omitted three women who regained their Thai nationality after giving it up to acquire their husband's nationality and were subsequently divorced.

In 2011 there was also a fair number of voluntary renunciations of Thai nationality that I haven't enumerated, mainly by women married to foreigners who were forced to renounce Thai nationality in order to acquire Taiwanese, Korean, Singaporean, Dutch or German nationality. In addtion there were at least four women who renounced Thai nationalilty in order to hold Australian nationality as their sole nationality. Presumably those four were not too bright, or has something changed in Australia?

So here is the list of newly minted Thais in 2011 in the order that the minister signed the final approvals, not the order of the announcements in the Royal Gazette which took place up to four months later. You will note that no approvals were signed by the outgoing minister after the elections and the new minister has yet to sign any. The total is less than recent years, possibly due to the change of goverment and the floods.

9-Feb Mr Tong Haw Sae Jiew

9-Feb Mr Dan Khang

9-Feb Mr Siew Ting

1-Apr Mrs Sharon Cos (American with Thai husband)

1-Apr Mr Junghaw Serkhoy

1-Apr Mr Yin Dopley

1-Apr Mr Shesh Siang Liew

1-Apr Mrs Lee Miew Chu

1-Apr Miss Sirithorn Sae Kee

1-Apr Mr Kevin Batterlix Bensley Bromilow

1-Apr Mr Karn Long Wong

1-Apr Mr Kehmet Lee Pas

7-Apr Mr Naojoph Singh Sachdev

7-Apr Mr Kumal Bir Singh Sachdev

22-Apr Mr Khay Churn

22-Apr Mr Gao Haw Wu

22-Apr Mr Gurmukh Singh Khalra

22-Apr Mr Wurn Ping Yeh

22-Apr Mrs Miew Jian Shu

22-Apr Mr Chu Jian Wang

22-Apr Mr Whia Churn Lee

20-May Mr Whim Chu Chern

20-May Mr Chandasekar Sekal

20-May Mr Chung Lit Chan

20-May Mr Liu Chia Wang

20-May Mr Whia Jun Lee

20-May Miss Sharon Khee

20-May Mr Chu Jay Hong

20-May Mr Isset Hassan Basar

8-Jul Miss Hong Chen (Chinese withThai husband)

8-Jul Mrs Sia Hong Chu (Chinese with Thai husband)

11-Jul Mr Robert Andrew Lee

11-Jul Mr Wan Chiew Chen

11-Jul Mr Sureshandras Balani

18-Jul Miss Malee Charoensak (Lao with Thai husband)

Good luck to all preparing to apply or waiting for news and let's hope for a good crop of approvals in 2012.

Happy New Year.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Arkady

[samran]

In addtion there were at least four women who renounced Thai nationalilty in order to hold Australian nationality as their sole nationality. Presumably those four were not too bright, or has something changed in Australia?

Nothing has changed in Australia, but false assumptions still abound as you know that you can't hold dual citizenship.

A couple of thoughts:

- They thought that section 22 applied to them in the sense that they weren't taking the nationality of their husband, but naturalising of their own free will?

Section 22.

A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalised as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

- That they weren't too bright

- That someone at the printing office confused Australia with Austria, which does not, I believe, allow multiple nationalities.

Edited December 30, 2011 by samran

[sas_cars]

Samran, I have one question. Don't know if you or any other person can answer. It is that, Suppose one get naturlised as a Thai Citizen, what happens to your minor children (below 10 years old) who were born in Thailand, hold a thai birth certificate, but did not get thai nationality due to both parents are foreigners. Can they acquire thai nationality automatically as their father has now become a thai citizen ?

[NewlyMintedThai]

As it is unlikely that any more applications will be approved this year, here is the list of approvals in 2011 which amounted to 35 people, of which four were women adopting the nationality of their Thai husbands, as noted in brackets. For some reason the announcements give the nationality in the latter cases but not for anyone else. You can try to figure out what nationality they might be from the names, if you can penetrate the Thai spellings. I have done the best I could with the transliterations but some of the Thai spellings are so weird, it is anyone's guess how they really spell or pronounce their names in English. I apologise to anyone whose name has been mispelled. I have omitted three women who regained their Thai nationality after giving it up to acquire their husband's nationality and were subsequently divorced.

In 2011 there was also a fair number of voluntary renunciations of Thai nationality that I haven't enumerated, mainly by women married to foreigners who were forced to renounce Thai nationality in order to acquire Taiwanese, Korean, Singaporean, Dutch or German nationality. In addtion there were at least four women who renounced Thai nationalilty in order to hold Australian nationality as their sole nationality. Presumably those four were not too bright, or has something changed in Australia?

So here is the list of newly minted Thais in 2011 in the order that the minister signed the final approvals, not the order of the announcements in the Royal Gazette which took place up to four months later. You will note that no approvals were signed by the outgoing minister after the elections and the new minister has yet to sign any. The total is less than recent years, possibly due to the change of goverment and the floods.

9-Feb Mr Tong Haw Sae Jiew

9-Feb Mr Dan Khang

9-Feb Mr Siew Ting

1-Apr Mrs Sharon Cos (American with Thai husband)

1-Apr Mr Junghaw Serkhoy

1-Apr Mr Yin Dopley

1-Apr Mr Shesh Siang Liew

1-Apr Mrs Lee Miew Chu

1-Apr Miss Sirithorn Sae Kee

1-Apr Mr Kevin Batterlix Bensley Bromilow

1-Apr Mr Karn Long Wong

1-Apr Mr Kehmet Lee Pas

7-Apr Mr Naojoph Singh Sachdev

7-Apr Mr Kumal Bir Singh Sachdev

22-Apr Mr Khay Churn

22-Apr Mr Gao Haw Wu

22-Apr Mr Gurmukh Singh Khalra

22-Apr Mr Wurn Ping Yeh

22-Apr Mrs Miew Jian Shu

22-Apr Mr Chu Jian Wang

22-Apr Mr Whia Churn Lee

20-May Mr Whim Chu Chern

20-May Mr Chandasekar Sekal

20-May Mr Chung Lit Chan

20-May Mr Liu Chia Wang

20-May Mr Whia Jun Lee

20-May Miss Sharon Khee

20-May Mr Chu Jay Hong

20-May Mr Isset Hassan Basar

8-Jul Miss Hong Chen (Chinese withThai husband)

8-Jul Mrs Sia Hong Chu (Chinese with Thai husband)

11-Jul Mr Robert Andrew Lee

11-Jul Mr Wan Chiew Chen

11-Jul Mr Sureshandras Balani

18-Jul Miss Malee Charoensak (Lao with Thai husband)

Good luck to all preparing to apply or waiting for news and let's hope for a good crop of approvals in 2012.

Happy New Year.

I see one name on that list that is pretty well known in expat circles:

http://www.thailandtatler.com/hasan-i-basar/

[samran]

Samran, I have one question. Don't know if you or any other person can answer. It is that, Suppose one get naturlised as a Thai Citizen, what happens to your minor children (below 10 years old) who were born in Thailand, hold a thai birth certificate, but did not get thai nationality due to both parents are foreigners. Can they acquire thai nationality automatically as their father has now become a thai citizen ?

The simple answer is 'I don't know' as I haven't seen anything in the Act which explicitly states that minors will also be naturalised retroactively.

Having said that, I like many many leuk krung's were retroactively made Thai citizens by virtue of the 1992 Act, but that may irrelevant to your question.

It would be a question one the guys at special branch would know the definative answer to, and if there isn't perhaps they could suggest a work around.

[Arkady]

Samran, I have one question. Don't know if you or any other person can answer. It is that, Suppose one get naturlised as a Thai Citizen, what happens to your minor children (below 10 years old) who were born in Thailand, hold a thai birth certificate, but did not get thai nationality due to both parents are foreigners. Can they acquire thai nationality automatically as their father has now become a thai citizen ?

The simple answer is 'I don't know' as I haven't seen anything in the Act which explicitly states that minors will also be naturalised retroactively.

Having said that, I like many many leuk krung's were retroactively made Thai citizens by virtue of the 1992 Act, but that may irrelevant to your question.

It would be a question one the guys at special branch would know the definative answer to, and if there isn't perhaps they could suggest a work around.

Your minor children cannot be naturalised retroactively but they can apply along with you under Section 12 of the Act, if they live in Thailand with you. It doesn't make any difference whether they ere born in Thailand or not, unless both parents were PRs at the time, in which case they are automatically Thai.

"Section 12. Any person being desirous of applying for naturalisation as a Thai, shall file an application with the competent official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations. Should the applicant for naturalisation as a Thai, under paragraph one, have children who are not sui juris in accordance with Thai law, and who have a domicile in Thailand, he may concurrently apply for such naturalisation for his children. In this case, such children shall be exempt from possessing the qualifications under Section 10 (1), (3), (4) and (5)."

I have seen some announcements in the RG where several people with the same surname and address got naturalised at the same time. So it presumably can be done.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Arkady

[xthAi76s]

Can an American legally hold both Thai and American citizenships?

Thanks,

Edited December 31, 2011 by ThailandMan

[lopburi3]

Yes and so can a Thai.

But this thread is about naturalization to Thai citizenship and that becomes more controversial with some saying it should not be allowed for Thai citizenship. But US does not have any such issues.

[xthAi76s]

Thank you much, and got it.

Regards,

Edited December 31, 2011 by ThailandMan