Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[Naam]

"Good luck to this person for obtaining a Thai citizenship.."

and obtaining a passport enabling him/her to travel nowhere without big visa hassles.

[jdinasia]

"Good luck to this person for obtaining a Thai citizenship.."

and obtaining a passport enabling him/her to travel nowhere without big visa hassles.

Guess you missed that the OP KEEPS his/her original passport ..... and nationality .... AND now can add SEA travel with no Visa ....

[jdinasia]

I don't see anything humiliating about the process you went through.

What, you don't think it's humiliating to sing the Thai national anthem in front of 40 people? I'd find that incredibly embarrassing.

Ummm singing the National Anthem once? when naturalized? nah I sing well enough for that! embarassing? not the same as humiliating!

[thailand07]

Hi All,

For those who are interested, the application process for Thai

Citizenship in my case went as follows:

Late 2003 - Picked up the checklist from the Police Headquarters on

Rama 1 Road

January 2004 - Took all my documents to the Police Department, in what

I thought was a word perfect application. However, since I was

applying in January and this being a new tax year, my tax returns from

the three preceding years were not enough. An oversight on my part, so

waited until I got my most recent tax retirn PNG 91 for 2003

March 2004 - Try again. This time my application was successfully

lodged. Paid the 5,000 Baht fee. Got fingeprinted. Signed my name (in

Thai) on dozens of firms. Took two Thai witnesses and later my wife

plus kids to show that they were real. Took forms issued to me by the

police department to immigration and my disctrict office. Later went

back to pick up the completed forms and take them back to the police

department

April 2004 - Thai language interview at the Police Department

September 2004 - Invited to the Interior Ministry. Showed them my work

permit, passport, alien registration certificate and certificate of

residence. Then, I was shown into a room with around 40 people

watching me. I was given a microphone and asked to sing the Thai

National anthem and Phra Baramee (the one they play in the cinema).

Yes, really. Managed to keep a straight face. Got interviewed in Thai

- basic Q&A about my circumstances. Around the same time, a group of

three officials from the Interrior Ministry visited my house to see if

my domestic circumstances were as described on my application form

Waited

Waited

February 2006 - Got the good news that the then Interior Minister Khun

Kongsak had approved my application

March 2006 - Got a letter to notify me of the above

Waited

(September 2006 - military coup)

Waited

November 2006 - Got the good news that the King had countersigned my

application

December 2006 - One of the most memorable parts: the oath. Just

after the King endorsed my application, I was asked to report to the

police department in business attire, armed with a candle, a lotus

flower and an incense stick. I then had to stand with these in my

hands while clasped in a wai, in front of a Buddhist shrine, repaeting

an oath of allegance to King and country, and promising to be an

upright and law-abiding citizen.

Waited

Waited

April 2007 - Got the good news that the new Interior Minister Khun

Aree had announced in the Interior Ministry notices that a bunch of

applicants including me could now get Thai nationality

May 2007 - Got the paperwork and certificate from the Police HQ to

take to the disctrict office to get my ID card. Now I must return my

work permit, alien residence certificate and certificate of residence

to respective authorities as these are no longer needed. Now I can

apply for a passport

Told that my application was one of the faster ones these days.

Getting Thai Citizenship IS a pain in the arse - but look on the

bright side:

1) Now I can own what I buy, land, house, etc

2) No need for a work permit, and no restricted occupations. I can now

drive a Tuk Tuk for a living if the going gets tough in the IT

industry

3) Now I can get in free to the Grand Palace and pay the Thai rate for

national parks

4) I can own a business

5) I can get a Thai passport and visit countries like Laos and Vietnam

visa free

6) No need for that expensive old yearly Resident Return visa. No

limit to the amount of time that I spend out of Thailand without

losing my residency

7) I can use the Thai passport lane at the airport (shorter queues)

8) In my case, no need to give up my old nationality

9) I have a new Thai identity, forename and surname. Good for

travelling to places that dislike my country of origin

10) I think that I can even vote, although I am not sure who is worth

voting for

All you need to do is satisfy the following to apply:

http://phuketgazette.com/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=759

Golden rules are:

1) Be patient and never get upset. The people that handle your

application do not make the rules and do not have any power over what

happens in the Interior Ministry

2) Get a coach. Not an expensive lawyer - just make friends with one

of the officials that handles your application

Cheers

hello again

it s Tom Young Imeant to give you my email adress, on my last message to you, if you wouldn't mind could you email me as i am still learning the thai visa sytem...my email is <<email deleted>>

thanks

sincerley

Tom Young

[Naam]

"Good luck to this person for obtaining a Thai citizenship.."

and obtaining a passport enabling him/her to travel nowhere without big visa hassles.

Guess you missed that the OP KEEPS his/her original passport ..... and nationality .... AND now can add SEA travel with no Visa ....

not all countries allow dual citizenship. my country doesn't. so even a thai passport presented to me on a silver platter would be of zero interest for me.

[samran]

Apologies if I've misunderstood, but from the OP's comments, it would seem that he/she is a women? And it seems that female applicants for citizenship have it a lot easier than male applicants.

Simon

''OP is a bloke. He mentions he bought along his wife during the application process.

[jdinasia]

"Good luck to this person for obtaining a Thai citizenship.."

and obtaining a passport enabling him/her to travel nowhere without big visa hassles.

Guess you missed that the OP KEEPS his/her original passport ..... and nationality .... AND now can add SEA travel with no Visa ....

not all countries allow dual citizenship. my country doesn't. so even a thai passport presented to me on a silver platter would be of zero interest for me.

Guess you weren't actually responding to the post then

It'd work for me! I have no problems carrying a second poassport but since the OP can go everywhere he did before and now adds even a few more places that have even fewer hassles than only having his first passport ... I guess it works for some!

[PeterH]

Congratulations to the OP!

Does anyone know what the rules are for British nationals? Are we allowed to hold British and Thai passports at the same time?

[Khun Bob]

yes - and it may be useful in the future should you wish to drop your UK citizenship

Congratulations to the OP!

Does anyone know what the rules are for British nationals? Are we allowed to hold British and Thai passports at the same time?

[dbrenn]

yes - and it may be useful in the future should you wish to drop your UK citizenship

Congratulations to the OP!

Does anyone know what the rules are for British nationals? Are we allowed to hold British and Thai passports at the same time?

The UK is one of thiose countries that allows dual/plural nationality, so the answer is yes in your case. In answer to all the other questions, yes I am a bloke, early forties, PR, in a regular job though I am not going to give specific personal details in an online forum like this.

Although there are various minimums regards tax and the like that appear on the application checklist, generally they are looking for people who make a contribution beyond the bare minimums. In my mind, the success of your application, even if you exceed the minimums, depends very much on how they like you as a person - if ytou come across as a complaining, whining farang, all bitter and twisted about being humiliated by a process that is beyond everybody's control, then your application will likely be consigned to one of the stacks of applications baled with twine that fill the back office. Some of them have been in limbo for "eight or ten" years and are never likely to see the light of day again, according to the officials that handled my application.

[thai_narak]

to the OP or to anyone who knows the right answer,

I have questions with the following requirements in the Thai citizenship procedure:

"If working in Thailand, he or she must have an income of at least 80,000 baht a month or have paid taxes in the year the citizenship application is made of 100,000 baht or more." --- What if not working in Thailand but remitting income from other country where I'm working from? Can I pay tax even not working in Thailand?

"He or she must have lived in Thailand contunously for at least five years before applying." --- This does not mention any residency permit. Will I be considered to have lived continously in Thailand with only Non-B (spouse) visa for the last five years?

Thanks...

[fforest]

interesting

[dbrenn]

to the OP or to anyone who knows the right answer,

I have questions with the following requirements in the Thai citizenship procedure:

"If working in Thailand, he or she must have an income of at least 80,000 baht a month or have paid taxes in the year the citizenship application is made of 100,000 baht or more." --- What if not working in Thailand but remitting income from other country where I'm working from? Can I pay tax even not working in Thailand?

Apart from taxes paid for the tree years preceding your application, you also must have a valid work permit both at the time you apply and when you are invited to the Interior Ministry, so you may have problems in this area.

"He or she must have lived in Thailand contunously for at least five years before applying." --- This does not mention any residency permit. Will I be considered to have lived continously in Thailand with only Non-B (spouse) visa for the last five years?

Thanks...

When I applied, applicants must have held PR for 5 years preceding the application. Temporary visas don't count for the 5 year minimum residence requirement.

No recognistion is given for taxes paid abroad. You have to be living aand working here - paying Thai taxes and the evidence must only be Thai Por Ngor Dor 91 tax return forms.

You have to get PR and hold it for at least 5 years before applying for citizenship. Incidentally, in answer to some of the other questions, yes there is a short reading test, your Thai language should be at least to a good conversational level (you are interviewed alone at both the Police Department and the Interior Ministry) and you need to have a clean criminal record.

[danone]

to the OP or to anyone who knows the right answer,

I have questions with the following requirements in the Thai citizenship procedure:

"If working in Thailand, he or she must have an income of at least 80,000 baht a month or have paid taxes in the year the citizenship application is made of 100,000 baht or more." --- What if not working in Thailand but remitting income from other country where I'm working from? Can I pay tax even not working in Thailand?

"He or she must have lived in Thailand contunously for at least five years before applying." --- This does not mention any residency permit. Will I be considered to have lived continously in Thailand with only Non-B (spouse) visa for the last five years?

Thanks...

thai_narak:

where you got that from?

can you post the link with the whole content?

[LoveDaBlues]

September 2004 - Invited to the Interior Ministry. Showed them my work

permit, passport, alien registration certificate and certificate of

residence. Then, I was shown into a room with around 40 people

watching me. I was given a microphone and asked to sing the Thai

National anthem and Phra Baramee (the one they play in the cinema).

What? Nobody told you about the shortcut? If at this stage you'd said, "I am shy," they would've replied, "Oh, you're already Thai" and you would've saved 2 1/2 years on the application.

good one

[thai_narak]

to the OP or to anyone who knows the right answer,

I have questions with the following requirements in the Thai citizenship procedure:

"If working in Thailand, he or she must have an income of at least 80,000 baht a month or have paid taxes in the year the citizenship application is made of 100,000 baht or more." --- What if not working in Thailand but remitting income from other country where I'm working from? Can I pay tax even not working in Thailand?

"He or she must have lived in Thailand contunously for at least five years before applying." --- This does not mention any residency permit. Will I be considered to have lived continously in Thailand with only Non-B (spouse) visa for the last five years?

Thanks...

thai_narak:

where you got that from?

can you post the link with the whole content?

it's from the link provided by the OP...

http://phuketgazette.com/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=759

[dman]

Congrats Mate. Job well done. Given the opportunity I would love to have a Thai Passport in addition to my US one. Currently have a resident and work visa for China, PRC. Did not have to sing the National Anthem but did have to give allot of blood and undergo every medical test under the sun.

Which brings me to my question, Does Thailand allow dual citizenship? I have a young son that is a dual citizen and holds both Thai and US passports. I was told when he reaches the age of 18 he is no longer eligable under Thai law to hold a passport of another country. Is this true or is it urban legend?

[cosmont]

Well done !

Congratulation ;-)

I am curious to know how many farang got it the last few years

[geoffphuket]

Not sure why you chose to go through all this humiliation ! But you obviously had your reasons !

If you are from Africa or the Indian Sub-Continent or such, then Thai citizenship may be regarded as useful.

But you kept schtuum on this.

But otherwise ... Why bother ?

1. You can buy land ... Ok.

2. You can drive a Tuk Tuk ... Yea Ok I guess.

3. Entry to the Grand Palace ... Ok if you go every weekend.

4. You can own a business ... Mmmm.

5. No comment.

6. So Bt 1,900 a year is a problem for you ?

7.

8. Ok.

9. Sounds like you are on the Lam.

10. Why would you want to vote ?.

Naka.

The OP has decided to be a 1st class citizen in the country he's chosen to live in...Congratulations to him for achieving it. Its better than being a second class resident - from a rich country.

[dbrenn]

Congrats Mate. Job well done. Given the opportunity I would love to have a Thai Passport in addition to my US one. Currently have a resident and work visa for China, PRC. Did not have to sing the National Anthem but did have to give allot of blood and undergo every medical test under the sun.

Which brings me to my question, Does Thailand allow dual citizenship? I have a young son that is a dual citizen and holds both Thai and US passports. I was told when he reaches the age of 18 he is no longer eligable under Thai law to hold a passport of another country. Is this true or is it urban legend?

Thai law states that the holder of dual nationality through birth *should* (not *must*) make a choice by a certain age. I forget how old. However, there is no legal obligation to do so, and no penalty imposed for not doing so. Most people therefore don't boither and continue to hold dual nationality. In the case of acquisition of Thai nationality through naturalisation, there is no requirement to renounce your existing nationality, so long as your "old country" allows dual/plural citizenship, which mine does.

[dbrenn]

Not sure why you chose to go through all this humiliation ! But you obviously had your reasons !

If you are from Africa or the Indian Sub-Continent or such, then Thai citizenship may be regarded as useful.

But you kept schtuum on this.

But otherwise ... Why bother ?

1. You can buy land ... Ok.

2. You can drive a Tuk Tuk ... Yea Ok I guess.

3. Entry to the Grand Palace ... Ok if you go every weekend.

4. You can own a business ... Mmmm.

5. No comment.

6. So Bt 1,900 a year is a problem for you ?

7.

8. Ok.

9. Sounds like you are on the Lam.

10. Why would you want to vote ?.

Naka.

The OP has decided to be a 1st class citizen in the country he's chosen to live in...Congratulations to him for achieving it. Its better than being a second class resident - from a rich country.

The poster quoted the figure of 1,900 Baht for a resident return visa, which is incomplete information with respect to the requirements for PR re-entry, so I will respond to the poster's comments simply for the benefit of new PR's who should be aware of the rules before attempting to leave Thailand, or risk losing their PR.

In order to be allowed to leave the country and return again with PR status, a PR holder needs the following:

1) A non-quota immigrant visa in your passport - cost for 1-year multiple entry is is 3,800 Baht

2) An endorsement in your certiificate of residence - cost for a 1-year endorsement is 1,900 Baht

The total is therefore 5,700 Baht per year, not 1,900 Baht.

To get the above, you need to bring your Alien Registration Certificate and Tabien Bahn to the immigration office, along with a photo, your certificate of residence and passport. You apply one day and pick up the completed documents the next.

New PRs who have never left Thailand should note that both the passport with visa AND endorsed certificate of residence must be presented to immigration on departure and re-entry to Thailand in order to maintain PR.

A PR who never leaves the country does not need the above and therefore pays nothing, but you have to pay the above if you want to leave and re-enter as a PR. If you are out of Thailand without the above or if either of the above expire even by just one day, then you automatically lose your PR and you have to begin the whole application process again from scratch.

Both the abbove are valid for one year, hence a PR can spand a maximum of one year out if he or she wants to return to Thailand with PR status.

[dman]

Congrats Mate. Job well done. Given the opportunity I would love to have a Thai Passport in addition to my US one. Currently have a resident and work visa for China, PRC. Did not have to sing the National Anthem but did have to give allot of blood and undergo every medical test under the sun.

Which brings me to my question, Does Thailand allow dual citizenship? I have a young son that is a dual citizen and holds both Thai and US passports. I was told when he reaches the age of 18 he is no longer eligable under Thai law to hold a passport of another country. Is this true or is it urban legend?

Thai law states that the holder of dual nationality through birth *should* (not *must*) make a choice by a certain age. I forget how old. However, there is no legal obligation to do so, and no penalty imposed for not doing so. Most people therefore don't boither and continue to hold dual nationality. In the case of acquisition of Thai nationality through naturalisation, there is no requirement to renounce your existing nationality, so long as your "old country" allows dual/plural citizenship, which mine does.

D, Thanks for the info.

[CNXagent]

Hi dbreen,

Great news to read about your quest to obtain a full Thai citizenship. Congrats ! May Buddha bless you !

I had heard that the Thai id card with different starting number .

The begining if the 13 digit Thai ID card can start with

#3

#5

#8

Or is there somemore? I am not sure. If anyone can add to the list?

I was told :

If number start with #3 means Thai by birth

If number start with #5 means for those born in the hilltribes and registered in Thai hospital for birth cert.

If number start with #8 means for those transfer of citizenship. So far, I only seen transfer of citizenship for those long term hilltribe immigrants.

Can you please tell us what is your the first number on your Thai ID card?

Thanks !

[younghusband]

Not sure why you chose to go through all this humiliation ! But you obviously had your reasons !

If you are from Africa or the Indian Sub-Continent or such, then Thai citizenship may be regarded as useful.

But you kept schtuum on this.

But otherwise ... Why bother ?

1. You can buy land ... Ok.

2. You can drive a Tuk Tuk ... Yea Ok I guess.

3. Entry to the Grand Palace ... Ok if you go every weekend.

4. You can own a business ... Mmmm.

5. No comment.

6. So Bt 1,900 a year is a problem for you ?

7.

8. Ok.

9. Sounds like you are on the Lam.

10. Why would you want to vote ?.

Naka.

The OP has decided to be a 1st class citizen in the country he's chosen to live in...Congratulations to him for achieving it. Its better than being a second class resident - from a rich country.

The poster quoted the figure of 1,900 Baht for a resident return visa, which is incomplete information with respect to the requirements for PR re-entry, so I will respond to the poster's comments simply for the benefit of new PR's who should be aware of the rules before attempting to leave Thailand, or risk losing their PR.

In order to be allowed to leave the country and return again with PR status, a PR holder needs the following:

1) A non-quota immigrant visa in your passport - cost for 1-year multiple entry is is 3,800 Baht

2) An endorsement in your certiificate of residence - cost for a 1-year endorsement is 1,900 Baht

The total is therefore 5,700 Baht per year, not 1,900 Baht.

To get the above, you need to bring your Alien Registration Certificate and Tabien Bahn to the immigration office, along with a photo, your certificate of residence and passport. You apply one day and pick up the completed documents the next.

New PRs who have never left Thailand should note that both the passport with visa AND endorsed certificate of residence must be presented to immigration on departure and re-entry to Thailand in order to maintain PR.

A PR who never leaves the country does not need the above and therefore pays nothing, but you have to pay the above if you want to leave and re-enter as a PR. If you are out of Thailand without the above or if either of the above expire even by just one day, then you automatically lose your PR and you have to begin the whole application process again from scratch.

Both the abbove are valid for one year, hence a PR can spand a maximum of one year out if he or she wants to return to Thailand with PR status.

Hi and congrats again,

Just a minor comment on the annual PR requirements (visa and endorsement), fresh in my mind because just done them.Formalities can now be completed in less than an hour with all documents returned completed.It's done upstairs now not on ground floor as before.You don't actually need the Tabien Bahn, at least I have never needed it - just the passport, blue book and police red book.I'm not entirely sure in fact whether latter is needed but I bring it along anyway.

[samran]

I was told :

If number start with #3 means Thai by birth

If number start with #5 means for those born in the hilltribes and registered in Thai hospital for birth cert.

If number start with #8 means for those transfer of citizenship. So far, I only seen transfer of citizenship for those long term hilltribe immigrants.

Can you please tell us what is your the first number on your Thai ID card?

I've got a 5 at the beginning of my Thai ID number. And yes, I'm an overseas born Thai national.

My Daughter, born here while not having an ID card yet (she is only a baby), the first number of her ID is a '1'. This may or may not change when she grows up ang gets her ID card.

[lingling]

and you need to have a clean criminal record.

I don't have a criminal record so I guess I don't qualify. I thought Australia was the only country with this requirement...

[BAF]

A lot of folks here getting over-excited over NOTHING...

You are looking at a process ("lottery" would be a far more adequate term) which overall lasts more than 10 years (and during which you can't simply live but HAVE TO WORK, even if you don't want/have to, in a 3rd world country).

Just ONE of the pre-requisite, the PR, has an annual limit of 100 PRs per nationality (limit which, AFAIK, is not even usually reached. And not for lack of applications).

The icing on the cake is the difference in treatment between male and female applicants...

You sure you would want to swear your loyalty to such a country?

My wife has got Italian "PR" just marrying me (no work/taxes/years of residence etc required) and has been able to ask for citizenship after 6 months of marriage (if living in Italy, 2 years if living abroad).

The process lasts 1.5/2 years, has cost us 2 trips to the provincial police station and administrative court and a total of € 600 (mostly spent for the Thai side of it, which is also where we have experienced the most of the hassles like the Thai embassy not knowing/wanting to do its duties and forcing my wife to personally go back to Thailand to get some paperwork). We have just had the visit from the local police verifying the situation described in the application.

The only real requisite is having a clean criminal record (no work/taxes/years of residence etc required, even the criminal record doesn't have to be "spotless", just nothing major in it) and there are no sex-based and nationality-based discriminations...

I will repeat here what I usually write when comparing our GFs'/BFs'/spouses' homecountry with our own: the only effective way to deal with the problems foreigners have in our home countries and that we have in foreign countries is RECIPROCATING the s.hit we get anywhere in the world outside of our tiny, fragile Western bubble of civilization. And if that means kicking out of my home country my Thai wife because we don't have a combined monthly income of 6/7 times the average Italian wage (as Thailand does), so be it.

[jdinasia]

A lot of folks here getting over-excited over NOTHING...

You are looking at a process ("lottery" would be a far more adequate term) which overall lasts more than 10 years (and during which you can't simply live but HAVE TO WORK, even if you don't want/have to, in a 3rd world country).

Just ONE of the pre-requisite, the PR, has an annual limit of 100 PRs per nationality (limit which, AFAIK, is not even usually reached. And not for lack of applications).

The icing on the cake is the difference in treatment between male and female applicants...

You sure you would want to swear your loyalty to such a country?

My wife has got Italian "PR" just marrying me (no work/taxes/years of residence etc required) and has been able to ask for citizenship after 6 months of marriage (if living in Italy, 2 years if living abroad).

The process lasts 1.5/2 years, has cost us 2 trips to the provincial police station and administrative court and a total of € 600 (mostly spent for the Thai side of it, which is also where we have experienced the most of the hassles like the Thai embassy not knowing/wanting to do its duties and forcing my wife to personally go back to Thailand to get some paperwork). We have just had the visit from the local police verifying the situation described in the application.

The only real requisite is having a clean criminal record (no work/taxes/years of residence etc required, even the criminal record doesn't have to be "spotless", just nothing major in it) and there are no discriminations between males, females and nationalities...

I will repeat here what I usually write when comparing our GFs'/BFs'/spouses' homecountry with our own: the only effective way to deal with the problems foreigners have in our home countries and that we have in foreign countries is RECIPROCATING the s.hit we get anywhere in the world outside of our tiny, fragile Western bubble of civilization. And if that means kicking out of my home country my Thai wife because we don't have a combined monthly income of 6/7 times the average Italian wage (as Thailand does), so be it.

Aren't you glad you are in Italy? <I am!>

[BAF]

Aren't you glad you are in Italy? <I am!>

Aren't you glad you ARE NOT from Thailand? <I wish you were!>

[jdinasia]

Aren't you glad you are in Italy? <I am!>

Aren't you glad you ARE NOT from Thailand? <I wish you were!>

Nope I love it here Live here Have a life here and not knocking it from 10,000 kms away!

I am genuinely happy for the OP! Have considered the PR thing soon myself I would consider citizenship as well!

All in all, I am not bitter and whining!