Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[BAF]

Aren't you glad you ARE NOT from Thailand?

Nope

Very commonly for blind daydreamers, you clearly don't understand the implications of being from Thailand.

It means, khun jdinasia, that you would MOST PROBABLY (read Thai socio-economic statistics) NOT BE enjoying yourself in Kamala Beach...

Edited May 21, 2007 by BAF

[jdinasia]

Aren't you glad you ARE NOT from Thailand?

Nope

Very commonly for blind daydreamers, you clearly don't understand the implications of being from Thailand.

It means, khun jdinasia, that you would MOST PROBABLY (read Thai socio-economic statistics) NOT BE enjoying yourself in Kamala Beach...

nope not blind ... and not a daydreamer ......

Read USA socio-economic statistics I managed to move here in my 30's and haven't worked in fact haven't worked since my mid-30's even in the USA. <I will be working at some point this year ... between the exchange rate and too much down time I should do SOMETHING

My Thai partner read BF could buy and sell me twice His family could do the same with me and my family twice as well

Remember ... I actually LIVE here .. speak read and write the language But I do enjoy being 'schooled' by folks that don't

again ... congrats to the OP

[samran]

Aren't you glad you ARE NOT from Thailand?

Nope

Very commonly for blind daydreamers, you clearly don't understand the implications of being from Thailand.

It means, khun jdinasia, that you would MOST PROBABLY (read Thai socio-economic statistics) NOT BE enjoying yourself in Kamala Beach...

geez,

a guy comes forward and posts how he managed to get Thai citizenship. Not an easy thing admittedly, but he has done so in a way which gives many people here some hope that they too could eventually find themselves in that position. He's basically shed some light on a process which up until now has been rather opaque to the farang community here in Thailand. A good deed really. ed: a fuggin' great deed actually.

And what do you do? Bemoan the process he has just gone through and belittle anyone else who perhaps have the personal want and motivation to go that extra step as well.

If you want, start up another thread and bang on against all your real and perceived inequities in Thailand. Most will note that you are doing so from Italy. But keep this thread on topic, and find it in your heart to actually, perhaps...maybe...possibly, congradulate this person.

[jdinasia]

Hear Hear Samran!

[BAF]

a guy comes forward and posts how he managed to get Thai citizenship. Not an easy thing admittedly, but he has done so in a way which gives many people here some hope that they do could eventually find themselves in that position. He's basically shed some light on a process which up until now has been a opaque. A good deed really.

All I did was "shedding some light" myself on the odds of being able to replicate the OP's accomplishment.

Then I complained on the unfairness of it all and on the only possible solution I see. Skip the second part, if you want, and correct the first, if you can...

But keep this thread on topic, and find it in your heart to actually, perhaps...maybe...possibly, congradulate this person.

Besides my replies to jdinasia's off topic comments (which I see you are NOT addressing...) I can't see how my first post could be meant as off topic.

Anyway, yes, congrats to the OP. Thai citizenship isn't something I would want but easy PR definitely is and I am VERY pissed off at not having the right to get it as a spouse of a Thai national and a possible future father of Thai citizens.

[BAF]

nope not blind ... and not a daydreamer ......

Read USA socio-economic statistics I managed to move here in my 30's and haven't worked

And what do you think my point was?

You managed to move there in your 30s and you haven't worked BECAUSE YOU ARE FROM THE USA AND NOT FROM THAILAND.

in fact haven't worked since my mid-30's even in the USA. <I will be working at some point this year ... between the exchange rate and too much down time I should do SOMETHING

My Thai partner read BF could buy and sell me twice His family could do the same with me and my family twice as well

MOST Westerners would be able to "buy and sell twice" the average Thai while your BF is one of the VERY FEW Thais who could "buy and sell twice" the average Westerner.

You say you aren't blind nor a daydreamer so what's you problem understanding this very simple point proven by those Thai and US socio-economics statistics?

Remember ... I actually LIVE here .. speak read and write the language But I do enjoy being 'schooled' by folks that don't

Read my past posts, I managed to move there in my 20s, I lived there for 4 years and the Thai I picked up there is almost as good as the English I picked up living in the US.

I have not been working in the USA (I have part-timed for a while just to socialize and because it was fun), I have not been working in Thailand and I am not working now in Italy (studying for my second degree).

BTW, the fact that I can read and understand socio-economic stats and that my first degree is in Social Sciences may actually put me in a better position to "school" about Thai society than many others here who, while denying and condemning it, are in fact trying to do it all the same...

Edited May 21, 2007 by BAF

[grtaylor]

Aren't you glad you ARE NOT from Thailand?

Nope

Very commonly for blind daydreamers, you clearly don't understand the implications of being from Thailand.

It means, khun jdinasia, that you would MOST PROBABLY (read Thai socio-economic statistics) NOT BE enjoying yourself in Kamala Beach...

geez,

a guy comes forward and posts how he managed to get Thai citizenship. Not an easy thing admittedly, but he has done so in a way which gives many people here some hope that they too could eventually find themselves in that position. He's basically shed some light on a process which up until now has been rather opaque to the farang community here in Thailand. A good deed really. ed: a fuggin' great deed actually.

And what do you do? Bemoan the process he has just gone through and belittle anyone else who perhaps have the personal want and motivation to go that extra step as well.

If you want, start up another thread and bang on against all your real and perceived inequities in Thailand. Most will note that you are doing so from Italy. But keep this thread on topic, and find it in your heart to actually, perhaps...maybe...possibly, congradulate this person.

Great post, Samran!!!

[jdinasia]

ALL OFF topic ..... but I will give one last reply ... The average Yank doesn't manage to do what I have done any more than the average Thai does

I have no reason to think that I would be any less successful at beating the norm in Thailand than I was in the USA .... nor do I have any trouble with the way life actually is!

Again ... I admire the guys that manage PR and even more so citizenship in Thailand .... one helluva great accomplishment! <<and your degree <1st> doesn't have anything on me >>

[BAF]

Great post, Samran!!!

Great argument-less patting on the back, grtaylor!!!

Edited May 21, 2007 by BAF

[BAF]

ALL OFF topic ..... but I will give one last reply ... The average Yank doesn't manage to do what I have done any more than the average Thai does

The point wasn't moving to a foreign country in one's 30s and living there without working (your BF hasn't done that, for example). I thought the point you were trying to make was being able to "buy and sell twice" one another. The average "Yank" CAN do that to the average Thai, the average Thai CANNOT do that to the average "Yank".

And if all you are saying now is that the average American isn't able to move to Thailand in his/her 30s and living there without working well, while being true, it still fails to address the fact that the average American has INFINITELY more chances to be able to achieve it than the average Thai has.

I have no reason to think that I would be any less successful at beating the norm in Thailand than I was in the USA ....

See what I was saying about blind daydreamers...

nor do I have any trouble with the way life actually is!

And why should you with the way YOUR life actually is (living in Kamala Beach without having to work)..?

...or are you speaking for the average Thai and its life?

Again ... I admire the guys that manage PR and even more so citizenship in Thailand .... one helluva great accomplishment!

So why aren't you "beating the norm" here?!? Eh, khun jdinasia!?!

<<and your degree <1st> doesn't have anything on me >>

It does nothing on blind daydreamers...

[sbk]

BAF, clearly you don't understand the implications of Samran's post.

Get back on topic or clear off.

Speaking as a moderator of this forum, is that clear????

[jdinasia]

BAF, clearly you don't understand the implications of Samran's post.

Get back on topic or clear off.

Speaking as a moderator of this forum, is that clear????

Thanks!

to diminish a man's accomplishments with your own rants and bias is rather low! When I start with the extension of stay I'll look at these options myself

[samran]

a guy comes forward and posts how he managed to get Thai citizenship. Not an easy thing admittedly, but he has done so in a way which gives many people here some hope that they do could eventually find themselves in that position. He's basically shed some light on a process which up until now has been a opaque. A good deed really.

All I did was "shedding some light" myself on the odds of being able to replicate the OP's accomplishment.

Then I complained on the unfairness of it all and on the only possible solution I see. Skip the second part, if you want, and correct the first, if you can...

But keep this thread on topic, and find it in your heart to actually, perhaps...maybe...possibly, congradulate this person.

Besides my replies to jdinasia's off topic comments (which I see you are NOT addressing...) I can't see how my first post could be meant as off topic.

Anyway, yes, congrats to the OP. Thai citizenship isn't something I would want but easy PR definitely is and I am VERY pissed off at not having the right to get it as a spouse of a Thai national and a possible future father of Thai citizens.

mama mia! as my dear old imaginary nonna would have perhaps said.....

there is a time and place for everything. That was my point. You can make your arguments, but do it elsewhere on another thread. This is a post about someone who has gone though the process and is giving people some valuable tips on how to do it. It isn't about the equity in the rules per se, which you seem to want to rage against.

I don't, and certainly the OP doesn't, pretend to think that the process doesn't contain a level of subjectivity and preference. BUT, for a thread like this, I think readers would rather hear the in's and out's of the process from people who are going though it, rather than someone who hasn't. It is rare enough a thread like this comes along on TV to want to have it hijacked by people with sour grapes.

Yes, the rules as they stand do discriminate on the basis of sex, marriage status and whether you are working here or not. For females, you can skip the PR stage and go straight to citzenship. For working males, you have an advantage over non-working males to get PR...the first step to citizenship. But, if you are a maried male working and married to a Thai national, then they'll give you a discount on PR....and it is all of a sudden more attactive.

But, one step at a time. The OP with his post has just demolished a whole bunch of preconceptions suurounding the citizenship process.

Swings and roundabouts...

[thailand07]

Hello dbrenn

my name is Tom Young Iam from Canada, the province Ilive in is called Alberta, the city is called Fort mcmurray. I read your story about your journey to attainng a thai citizenship. quite the story. Iam writing to you because I have a fiance who lives outside(42km) of Udon Thani, and I could use all the help on l;earning about the thai system! IAm currently building a home in the village of Non Simma.

If you could I would appreciate emailing to you about your life in Thailand...Iam currently employeed by an oil corporation here in Ft Mcmurray, but my plan is to move to Thailand in 1-2 years...maybe sooner. But I donot quite understand the issues surrouonding the Farangs lving there (visa's) ect. I may be taking 2 of my children to live with me, they are 14 & 12..Any how I will keep it short, please if you do not mind could you email me to let me now if you would share your experiences and knowledge with me?

sincerely

Tom Young

My email adress is thanks again and hope to hear fro you. I do have mnay questions to ask, if you do not mind.

[eljeque]

Question for the day.

How many Western foreigners are granted Thai citizenship each year?

[chatette]

I haven't heard of a quota, and one wld hope the processing were based on qualification not on a ceiling. I'm quite horrified by the original post as I have my interior ministry interview next Tues. and can barely stumble my way thru the national anthem after I learned last week I'd have to sing it. At least I know the tune by heart. The King's anthem's a complete shock, I could hum it at a pinch, I think, but have no clue of the words. Eek! Crash course!

Someone asked if PR was a prerequisite for citizenship. It's not for women who have produced a Thai citizen. I believe it is a prerequisite for men.

Re household registration, I got on my husband's househould registration when I had PR (since lapsed) and would recommend the same for a female spouse applying as the premise is that you are seeking to stay with your husband. In every step of my process, the officials have deferred to my husband over me. Now if they would only ask HIM to stumble thru the anthems....

[samran]

Chaette,

good luck with the interview. Here is a link to the lyrics of the royal anthem, in Thai, Engish and phonetic Thai in roman script.

http://david.national-anthems.net/th%5E'.htm

[dbrenn]

I haven't heard of a quota, and one wld hope the processing were based on qualification not on a ceiling. I'm quite horrified by the original post as I have my interior ministry interview next Tues. and can barely stumble my way thru the national anthem after I learned last week I'd have to sing it. At least I know the tune by heart. The King's anthem's a complete shock, I could hum it at a pinch, I think, but have no clue of the words. Eek! Crash course!

Someone asked if PR was a prerequisite for citizenship. It's not for women who have produced a Thai citizen. I believe it is a prerequisite for men.

Re household registration, I got on my husband's househould registration when I had PR (since lapsed) and would recommend the same for a female spouse applying as the premise is that you are seeking to stay with your husband. In every step of my process, the officials have deferred to my husband over me. Now if they would only ask HIM to stumble thru the anthems....

Don't worrry too much:

1) It's easier for a woman

2) You can write the Thai National Anthem and King's Anthem on a sheet of paper and read from it while singing if you can't remember the words. Can even be transliterated into Roman script if you aren't too good at reading the language. So long as you know the tune, you will therefore be OK

[chatette]

Thanks so much for the link and reassurance! That's a huge relief. I've a small sheet with the national anthem in Thai and English that I've been reciting at every possible moment (haven't been too many unfortunately) since I learned over a business lunch that I have to sing it. Can read Thai, but am still trying to work out the best way to remember. Can remember the first line word perfect by knowing what it means....Maybe I can glance at my paper if I get stuck. Am thinking of maybe taking Monday off work and just staying home and writing out both endlessly. With any luck, they'll find my singing so dreadful that I'll get off with one....

[dbrenn]

Thanks so much for the link and reassurance! That's a huge relief. I've a small sheet with the national anthem in Thai and English that I've been reciting at every possible moment (haven't been too many unfortunately) since I learned over a business lunch that I have to sing it. Can read Thai, but am still trying to work out the best way to remember. Can remember the first line word perfect by knowing what it means....Maybe I can glance at my paper if I get stuck. Am thinking of maybe taking Monday off work and just staying home and writing out both endlessly. With any luck, they'll find my singing so dreadful that I'll get off with one....

Didn't even know that ladies have to sing the song too. Just read off the sheet with a bit of melody thrown in, and be extra nice to them. You'll pass.

[dbrenn]

Hello dbrenn

my name is Tom Young Iam from Canada, the province Ilive in is called Alberta, the city is called Fort mcmurray. I read your story about your journey to attainng a thai citizenship. quite the story. Iam writing to you because I have a fiance who lives outside(42km) of Udon Thani, and I could use all the help on l;earning about the thai system! IAm currently building a home in the village of Non Simma.

If you could I would appreciate emailing to you about your life in Thailand...Iam currently employeed by an oil corporation here in Ft Mcmurray, but my plan is to move to Thailand in 1-2 years...maybe sooner. But I donot quite understand the issues surrouonding the Farangs lving there (visa's) ect. I may be taking 2 of my children to live with me, they are 14 & 12..Any how I will keep it short, please if you do not mind could you email me to let me now if you would share your experiences and knowledge with me?

sincerely

Tom Young

My email adress is thanks again and hope to hear fro you. I do have mnay questions to ask, if you do not mind.

First things first - go and stay there for a while on Non-imm O visasa and see if you like it. Living in a remote area far away from your own kind and without any of the familiarities of home isn't something that anybody can adapt to. Don't even think about taking your kids there until you have lived there for a year or more and are sure that it is best for you AND them. They are just teenagers, and might not shere your enthusiasm for living in such a foreign culture as a village in Udon Thani.

[dbrenn]

Not sure why you chose to go through all this humiliation ! But you obviously had your reasons !

If you are from Africa or the Indian Sub-Continent or such, then Thai citizenship may be regarded as useful.

But you kept schtuum on this.

But otherwise ... Why bother

1. You can buy land ... Ok.

2. You can drive a Tuk Tuk ... Yea Ok I guess.

3. Entry to the Grand Palace ... Ok if you go every weekend.

4. You can own a business ... Mmmm.

5. No comment.

6. So Bt 1,900 a year is a problem for you ?

7.

8. Ok.

9. Sounds like you are on the Lam.

10. Why would you want to vote ?.

Naka.

The OP has decided to be a 1st class citizen in the country he's chosen to live in...Congratulations to him for achieving it. Its better than being a second class resident - from a rich country.

The poster quoted the figure of 1,900 Baht for a resident return visa, which is incomplete information with respect to the requirements for PR re-entry, so I will respond to the poster's comments simply for the benefit of new PR's who should be aware of the rules before attempting to leave Thailand, or risk losing their PR.

In order to be allowed to leave the country and return again with PR status, a PR holder needs the following:

1) A non-quota immigrant visa in your passport - cost for 1-year multiple entry is is 3,800 Baht

2) An endorsement in your certiificate of residence - cost for a 1-year endorsement is 1,900 Baht

The total is therefore 5,700 Baht per year, not 1,900 Baht.

To get the above, you need to bring your Alien Registration Certificate and Tabien Bahn to the immigration office, along with a photo, your certificate of residence and passport. You apply one day and pick up the completed documents the next.

New PRs who have never left Thailand should note that both the passport with visa AND endorsed certificate of residence must be presented to immigration on departure and re-entry to Thailand in order to maintain PR.

A PR who never leaves the country does not need the above and therefore pays nothing, but you have to pay the above if you want to leave and re-enter as a PR. If you are out of Thailand without the above or if either of the above expire even by just one day, then you automatically lose your PR and you have to begin the whole application process again from scratch.

Both the abbove are valid for one year, hence a PR can spand a maximum of one year out if he or she wants to return to Thailand with PR status.

Hi and congrats again,

Just a minor comment on the annual PR requirements (visa and endorsement), fresh in my mind because just done them.Formalities can now be completed in less than an hour with all documents returned completed.It's done upstairs now not on ground floor as before.You don't actually need the Tabien Bahn, at least I have never needed it - just the passport, blue book and police red book.I'm not entirely sure in fact whether latter is needed but I bring it along anyway.

Now you mention it, the only reason that I had to take my Tabien Bahn was to get a duplicate certificate of residence - my old one was full of stamps. As you correctly say, to get an endorsement, the documents that you need are your pasport, certificate of residence and alien registration book (they did ask for this one).

Glad the whole process can now be done in a day - the service is getting better over there.

[thai_narak]

I'm sure some of us here are not working in Thailand but have Thai families (kids carrying our farang family names), some are even fluent in Thai, can sing the national and king's anthem, have made contributions to the Thai society (donations), and of course we have money in the bank but we will never become Thai citizens just because we are not working in Thailand hence will not be able to get a PR which, is a pre-requisite to Thai citizenship. What should we do? Is there any other road map for us?

From the pointing system:

"Points are awarded to applicants on the following basis: Age and education, 25 points; Occupation, 35 points; Length of residence in Thailand, 10 points; Relationship with Thai people and Thailand, 10 points; Thai language knowledge, 10 points; Personality, 10 points."

less the Occupation of 35 points is 65 points which can also qualify for consideration.

[chatette]

it's impossible to proceed outside of the country, with the exception of people exercising Thai birthright to gain nationality (ie: one or other parent is Thai). I was out of the country for four years after submitting my application and it ground to a halt. I could have flown back for the IM interview three years ago and it may have continued along, but I chose not to, just as I chose not to fly back to extend PR. The initial part of the screening also involves national security clearance, which of course couldn't be done outside of the country.

I share the frustration of some of the other posters lamenting that the process is exceptionally tedious compared with many Western countries. My husband, for example, qualifies for my original citizenship by virtue of being married to me. Friends and colleagues have qualified for UK, Australian and Belgian citizenship simply by living in each of the countries for a period of time. Ironically, i could have qualified for citizenship of the country I went to for 4 years (back here 11 months ago) had I stayed 1 more year. But Thailand is what it is, and this is where I live whether I like its processes or not.

At least the bureaucrats here are friendly and helpful, which is a lot more than I can say for my experiences with their counterparts in the U.K. and Belgium, where they are just plain rude and obstructive.

[ThaiGoon]

Aren't you glad you ARE NOT from Thailand?

Nope

Very commonly for blind daydreamers, you clearly don't understand the implications of being from Thailand.

It means, khun jdinasia, that you would MOST PROBABLY (read Thai socio-economic statistics) NOT BE enjoying yourself in Kamala Beach...

geez,

a guy comes forward and posts how he managed to get Thai citizenship. Not an easy thing admittedly, but he has done so in a way which gives many people here some hope that they too could eventually find themselves in that position. He's basically shed some light on a process which up until now has been rather opaque to the farang community here in Thailand. A good deed really. ed: a fuggin' great deed actually.

And what do you do? Bemoan the process he has just gone through and belittle anyone else who perhaps have the personal want and motivation to go that extra step as well.

If you want, start up another thread and bang on against all your real and perceived inequities in Thailand. Most will note that you are doing so from Italy. But keep this thread on topic, and find it in your heart to actually, perhaps...maybe...possibly, congradulate this person.

[Mobi]

In my usual, inimitable fashion, I have just stumbled across this thread.

Absolutely fascinating (apart from the ridiculous and needless rants around pages 6 and 7).

I come from an era when all things were possible with regards to PR and citizenship, with the right amount of money. In fact I still know of a few farangs walking around with Thai citizenship who can barely speak a word of Thai - which to me is a total disgrace, and a shame on them.

dbrenn, I am in awe in what you and others have achieved.

I cannot conceive that anyone who has decided to make his/her home and life in Thailand would not wish to do the same - were it possible.

Many,many, congratulations, and enjoy your hard earned rights.

[dbrenn]

In my usual, inimitable fashion, I have just stumbled across this thread.

Absolutely fascinating (apart from the ridiculous and needless rants around pages 6 and 7).

I come from an era when all things were possible with regards to PR and citizenship, with the right amount of money. In fact I still know of a few farangs walking around with Thai citizenship who can barely speak a word of Thai - which to me is a total disgrace, and a shame on them.

dbrenn, I am in awe in what you and others have achieved.

I cannot conceive that anyone who has decided to make his/her home and life in Thailand would not wish to do the same - were it possible.

Many,many, congratulations, and enjoy your hard earned rights.

I also know a few people who got citizenship in the old days. Things were a lot more flexible then, and it was much easier than it is now if you knew the right people and / or put money in the right places. Now, Thai laws governing visas, residency and citizenship seem to be more rigorously followed, and it seems that there are few, if any, ways for an ordinary person to circumvent them.

Thanks to you and the other nice people in this group for the kind words, and I hope that my original post will encourage those people who are eligible to apply to go ahead and do it. True, it is not an easy thing to do, but people who are lawfully living and working here may be surprised, like I was, to find that with some effort it is possible to get full rights here. Once you get down to the application process with the right frame of mind, it is not really as bad as it sounds and only takes a few days of your time. Acceptance criteria only seem to get tougher, so if you are eligible for any kind of concession, be it a visa, PR or citizenship, apply for it now rather than procrastinate until the rules change against you.

[pazza]

Hi, can I say many congratulations.

I think your post has given many people hope with your knowledge and freely given advice.

Again, well done.

(btw here is a good link to the ( Thai National Anthem )

[CDB]

As someone who has just gotten PR, I am interested in the next step as soon as possible.

A quick question about timings. I have seen conflicting reports about when I am allowed to apply for citizenship. I have lived here for 14 years, paid lots of tax for more than 10 consecutive years, but have only just gotten PR. Do I have to wait 5 years more before applying? or can I try straight away?

I am male, 39, with a son.

In the past you could appeal the normal waiting period to the Minister of Interior if you felt there was a case why should be considered early. Is that still an option? Also, is it worth having "influential" people be the two sponsors/witnesses for your application?

Thanks for any insight on this...

[dbrenn]

As someone who has just gotten PR, I am interested in the next step as soon as possible.

A quick question about timings. I have seen conflicting reports about when I am allowed to apply for citizenship. I have lived here for 14 years, paid lots of tax for more than 10 consecutive years, but have only just gotten PR. Do I have to wait 5 years more before applying? or can I try straight away?

I am male, 39, with a son.

In the past you could appeal the normal waiting period to the Minister of Interior if you felt there was a case why should be considered early. Is that still an option? Also, is it worth having "influential" people be the two sponsors/witnesses for your application?

Thanks for any insight on this...

Generally they are quite strict on minimum requirements, aksing that they are all met before an application can be successfully lodged. An appeal to the Interior Minister himself would probably take a very long time indeed. Not sure either about the influential people as witnesses - depends who they are I suppose.

You should ask at the police department on Rama 1 Road. They are very helpful and will give you advice.