A few questions re converting to Retirement Visa

[Andy1961]

I am from the UK and hope to travel to Thailand in September and convert my Visa on Arrival (or Tourist Visa if I need one) to a retirement visa.  Based on the 'Phuket Plan' I intend to spend 7 days on Phuket or Samui (or another destination if the scheme opens up) then, subject to COVID test results, I will be free to travel elsewhere in Thailand.  I will head to my partner's home and apply for the retirement visa from there.

 

I have a few questions and apologise as these are probably covered elsewhere in this forum.

 

1. I have the opportunity to open an account with Bangkok Bank in London and I will deposit a minimum of 800k THB.  It has been suggested that this will cause a problem as I didn't open the account in Thailand.  Surely if the account is with Bangkok Bank, why does it matter?   I guess I could open a new account when in Thailand and transfer the money from one Bangkok Bank account to another but that seems pointless.

2. I will be receiving 2 pensions by the time I travel to Thailand which will exceed 65,000 THB per month so if (1) will be an issue I guess I can use pension income to satisfy the financial requirement.

3. Providing the retirement visa is issued I have no intention to return to the UK, apart from future holidays to visit family.   So I want to buy a one-way flight.  Will this cause an issue with the Visa on Arrival (or applying for a tourist visa before I leave)?

4. Under the Phuket Plan, I guess I will need health/COVID insurance but will I need to prove 12 months of cover for the conversion to retirement visa?

 

This is all new to me so please point out any glaring holes in my plans.

 

This is an excellent forum and many thanks for all the advice.

 

[BritTim]

1. Unfortunately, an account with Bangkok Bank in London is not considered the same as holding a Thai bank account.
2. If you have the funds, it is better to open an account in Thailand and deposit the required 800,000 baht there. Opening the account can be tricky these days, but it is possible. If necessary, there are agents who can assist. When using pension income, it is important to be very careful to ensure it arrives in Thailand every month with evidence it comes from abroad. Complications can easily arise.
3. Your airline will almost certainly want to see an onward flight out of Thailand within 45 days. Although irritating, the most practical solution is to buy the cheapest throw away ticket you can find that meets that requirement. You do not need to worry about whether (in practice,) the ticket would be useable (visa or Covid restrictions). Any valid ticket will do.
4. No insurance cover is needed for the 90-day conversion visa (giving you an initial 90-day permission to stay) or the subsequent 12-month extensions of your permission to stay.

[ubonjoe]

1. You cannot open a bank account at the Bangkok Bank branch in London.

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-UK-to-Thailand-via-London-Branch

You can only transfer to a existing bank account here.

2. Unless you enter Thailand with a non-o visa you will not be able to use the 65k baht option proven by transfers into a Thai bank to apply for one at immigration. It is not shown on the list for requirements here. https://bangkokimmigration.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/08-edit_NON-O.pdf

3. You will need to show a ticket out of the country to enter visa exempt with 45 days to board you flight to here.

If you applied for a non-o visa at the embassy in London you would not need a ticket out of the country.

[Andy1961]

Thanks both for your advice.  It seems the plan to convert my tourist visa (or visa waiver) to a retirement visa contains a few potholes. 

So I cannot open a Bangkok Bank account in London, I have to be in Thailand.  But doesn't the 800k need to be in the account for 2 months before applying for a retirement visa?  So after a week of quarantine I then wait a further week for the banks to play their games then 2 months for the money to sit in my new account.  Then at least 15 days to process my retirement visa application.  Looks like I am over my 90 days.  Or can I keep extending my tourist / visa waiver status?

My head is starting to spin, perhaps I am over-thinking this?

 

Maybe it would be simpler to apply for my retirement visa here in the UK.  At least I can then fly to my new home without running around like a headless chicken opening bank accounts, transferring money (which, knowing UK banks, will probably disappear into the ether for several days before arriving), extending my tourist visa to get everything done. 

 

All rather frustrating but, hey, what would moving to a new country be without some good old fashioned bureaucracy?

[marioc]

13 hours ago, Andy1961 said:

Based on the 'Phuket Plan' I intend to spend 7 days on Phuket or Samui

Just a heads up:

 Phuket’s plan to re-open to foreign tourists on 1 July could be delayed

 

[Salerno]

8 minutes ago, Andy1961 said:

But doesn't the 800k need to be in the account for 2 months before applying for a retirement visa?

 

No, just has to be in the bank on the day you apply for the Non-O.

 

So longest way:

1. Visa exempt (45 days, plenty time to sort out bank account)>
2. Non-O (60 days which gives the 2 month seasoning of the 800K) >
3. Extension (12 months) based on retirement.

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Salerno

[LivingNThailand]

I recall I called Bangkok Bank in New York several times about opening an account.  Although I couldn't open an account while in the US the lady I talked to was very helpful.  So if you have any questions you may try calling the UK branch, although it may be hard to get ahold of someone on the phone now a days.  

 

Tip:  You should open your account at a branch in the province you will be living in.  I initially opened my "visa account" in Bangkok and moved to Phuket.  No major problems getting the paperwork every year but recently I was told I had to fly to Bangkok to get a new ATM card.  Switched immediately to Phuket branch after my visa extension

 

Lastly, I wouldn't think it would be hard to open a retirement visa account at a branch that is familiar with expats and retirement requirements as long as you had your paperwork in order.   Pick a big branch in a shopping mall or the main branch and tell them you are going to deposit a big lump sum for immigration purposes.  If they are familiar with this process it shouldn't be a problem, I think.

[DrJack54]

Use an agent to open a bank account after you enter. 

 

[brianthainess]

29 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Use an agent to open a bank account after you enter. 

 

Can you recommend one and where do you find an agent. I was told by a friend yesterday as from April 1st an agent can no longer open an account for you. ???

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, brianthainess said:

Can you recommend one and where do you find an agent. I was told by a friend yesterday as from April 1st an agent can no longer open an account for you. ???

First up, I don't think that the agent opens an account. They assist.  There was a report (recently) from a chap with (visa exempt entry) and used Siam Legal to assist with opening an account. The report was very positive. Cannot recall price but was modest.

Personally I had difficulty in opening an  account even though I have lived here for years and had current extension to non o retirement and an existing bank account. Couldn't believe how difficult it was. Bangkok Bank wanted something from my embassy along with something from my Oz bank. Ridiculous.

I hope some folk that have used an agent to open bank account can post personal experience. I'm not sure if visa agents can assist with this.

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, Andy1961 said:

Thanks both for your advice.  It seems the plan to convert my tourist visa (or visa waiver) to a retirement visa contains a few potholes. 

So I cannot open a Bangkok Bank account in London, I have to be in Thailand.  But doesn't the 800k need to be in the account for 2 months before applying for a retirement visa?  So after a week of quarantine I then wait a further week for the banks to play their games then 2 months for the money to sit in my new account.  Then at least 15 days to process my retirement visa application.  Looks like I am over my 90 days.  Or can I keep extending my tourist / visa waiver status?

My head is starting to spin, perhaps I am over-thinking this?

 

Maybe it would be simpler to apply for my retirement visa here in the UK.  At least I can then fly to my new home without running around like a headless chicken opening bank accounts, transferring money (which, knowing UK banks, will probably disappear into the ether for several days before arriving), extending my tourist visa to get everything done. 

 

All rather frustrating but, hey, what would moving to a new country be without some good old fashioned bureaucracy?

When you come to Thailand and want the retirement extensions, see a reputable agent and save yourself all the hassle. In fact email Thaivisa itself and use their agent. Forget all his 800.000 Bt in the bank nonsense, an agent will fix up everything perfectly legal.

[NoshowJones]

30 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

Can you recommend one and where do you find an agent. I was told by a friend yesterday as from April 1st an agent can no longer open an account for you. ???

An agent will  sort everything out without the need to put any money in the bank, and it's all perfectly legal.

[brianthainess]

1 minute ago, possum1931 said:

An agent will  sort everything out without the need to put any money in the bank, and it's all perfectly legal.

Surely you must open a BKK bank account in your name first, this thread is about opening an account is it not? 

[NoshowJones]

5 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

Surely you must open a BKK bank account in your name first, this thread is about opening an account is it not? 

The OP has already received good advice about opening an account, he should see an agent first.

[KannikaP]

23 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

An agent will  sort everything out without the need to put any money in the bank, and it's all perfectly legal.

The reason people use an agent is usually because they cannot satisfy the LEGAL requirements.

[Peter Denis]

19 hours ago, Andy1961 said:

Thanks both for your advice.  It seems the plan to convert my tourist visa (or visa waiver) to a retirement visa contains a few potholes. 

So I cannot open a Bangkok Bank account in London, I have to be in Thailand.  But doesn't the 800k need to be in the account for 2 months before applying for a retirement visa?  So after a week of quarantine I then wait a further week for the banks to play their games then 2 months for the money to sit in my new account.  Then at least 15 days to process my retirement visa application.  Looks like I am over my 90 days.  Or can I keep extending my tourist / visa waiver status?

My head is starting to spin, perhaps I am over-thinking this?

...

When entering VisaExempt or on a 60-day Tourist Visa, you will be stamped in for a 45 days (VE) or 60 days (TR) permission to stay.

After your 7, 10 or 15 day quarantaine you would then first need to open a personal Thai bank-account (which is easier said then done). 

Once you have the personal bank-account you can then transfer +800.000 THB to that account.  Note: It might be useful to already open a Wise account while in UK, so that you can use that service to easily transfer the funds to your Thai bank-account.

 

Then and when you still have at least 15 days left on your permission to stay (some offices require 23 days), you can apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.

The funds for such application ONLY need to be on your personal Thai bank-account - with foreign origins proven - at the moment of application.

In the last month of those 90-days you can then apply for the 1-year extension of stay for reason of retirement based on that original Non Imm O Visa (that process ensures that the 800K on your personal Thai bank-account has seasoned for 2 months, according to the financial requirements for a 1-year extension using the Funds-in-Bank method).  This has to be done at the same Imm office where you applied for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa.

 

Note: In case you need more time, you can also make use of the 30-day extension of stay your VE or TR-entry entitles you to.  This can only be done once.  And after that you could even make use of 60-day covid-extensions to prolonge your stay in Thailand.  Once border restrictions are lifted those covid-extensions would be scrapped, and then you could apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa. 

Also, if parking +800K on your personal Thai bank-account would be problematic, you could consider applying for a Non Imm O-A Visa at the Thai Embassy in your home-country.  Doing so would give you a head-start as such Non Imm O-A Visa can provide you with almost 2 years of Immigration-hassle free stay in Thailand with":

- NO need to visit an Imm Office for extensions during those 2 years;

- NO need to park/transfer 800K to a personal Thai bank-account.

[LivingNThailand]

34 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

An agent will  sort everything out without the need to put any money in the bank, and it's all perfectly legal.

I'm not sure about that.  But if it works for you that's good.

Personally I don't see any need to pay for an agent.  Siam Legal (5+ years ago) wanted 50,000 baht for me and another 50,000 for my wife to acquire the non-O and retirement extension.  Per year.  I figured it out all myself and it wasn't that hard.  A little anxiety, but not hard.  If you are going to live in Thailand  for at least 8 years (8 x 100,000) you might as well put the money in bank and have it in 8 years in stead of an agents pocket. ( for a couple that is).  So far I've "saved" 600,000 baht.

I have referred several new people to Thailand to my bank branch and they have had no problem at all opening a bank account.  I don't think all banks are created equal - like immigration offices.  

 

Anyway, that is my experience, for whatever it is worth. Everyone has a different story and experience and different requirements.  Whatever works for you is the best for you.

[LivingNThailand]

23 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

The reason people use an agent is usually because they cannot satisfy the LEGAL requirements.

Exactly why a neighbor friend uses an agent.  He sweats it every year.  Why bother when you can have peace of mind.

Edited April 18, 2021 by LivingNThailand

[NoshowJones]

2 minutes ago, LivingNThailand said:

I'm not sure about that.  But if it works for you that's good.

Personally I don't see any need to pay for an agent.  Siam Legal (5+ years ago) wanted 50,000 baht for me and another 50,000 for my wife to acquire the non-O and retirement extension.  Per year.  I figured it out all myself and it wasn't that hard.  A little anxiety, but not hard.  If you are going to live in Thailand  for at least 8 years (8 x 100,000) you might as well put the money in bank and have it in 8 years in stead of an agents pocket. ( for a couple that is).  So far I've "saved" 600,000 baht.

I have referred several new people to Thailand to my bank branch and they have had no problem at all opening a bank account.  I don't think all banks are created equal - like immigration offices.  

 

Anyway, that is my experience, for whatever it is worth. Everyone has a different story and experience and different requirements.  Whatever works for you is the best for you.

 Siam legal is a lawyers company? I was on about agents. Not the same thing. Thaivisa itself is in league with a reputable agent, anyone will get all the help they need there.

[KannikaP]

14 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

 Siam legal is a lawyers company? I was on about agents. Not the same thing. Thaivisa itself is in league with a reputable agent, anyone will get all the help they need there.

How can an agent who helps people break/bypass the Law, be classed as reputable?

Edited April 18, 2021 by KannikaP

[Peter Denis]

29 minutes ago, LivingNThailand said:

Exactly why a neighbor friend uses an agent.  He sweats it every year.  Why bother when you can have peace of mind.

If you are anxious about Immigration admin and don't want any surprises when applying for your extension, you can simply engage an Agent for a 'hand-holding' service.

The Agent will tell you exactly what paperwork is needed and will check whether it is correct/complete, and then go with you to the Immigration Office with him dealing with the Imm Officer for your application.  Such a hand-holding service is indeed 'fully legal' and will cost approx 5.000 THB.

 

When for one reason or another you are not able to meet Immigration requirements (often the financial ones) you can also make use of a Fixer Agent, who will circumvent the requirements by applying at a 'friendly' Imm Office - often up-country - where he has connections.  Obviously that service is more expensive as it involves a 'brown envelope with content' for the Imm officer handling the application and overlooking the requirement.

The practice is widely used and tolerated (after all this is Thailand).  But do NOT tell that it is 'fully legal' and indeed the risk of any consequences for your stay in Thailand is very very small.

But is is not totally risk-free, as there have been crack-ups in the past (usually as a result of some internal inter-office strife) with those having made use of that Fixer Agent service as collateral damage, being deported from Thailand with 1 to 10 year bans.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Peter Denis

[NoshowJones]

3 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

How can an agent who helps people break/bypass the Law, be classed as reputable?

So Thaivisa is breaking and bypassing the law?

[KannikaP]

4 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

So Thaivisa is breaking and bypassing the law?

No, they are 'in league with'  an agent , who does the illegal process. Read Peter Denis's post above.

Edited April 18, 2021 by KannikaP

[NoshowJones]

30 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

No, they are 'in league with'  an agent , who does the illegal process. Read Peter Denis's post above.

i read it and I also saw Dr Jack54's confused emotican, yes Peter Denis, is one of the posters who's posts are always interesting and most would agree with, but so is Dr Jack 54's.

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

i read it and I also saw Dr Jack54's confused emotican, yes Peter Denis, is one of the posters who's posts are always interesting and most would agree with, but so is Dr Jack 54's.

Thanks for the compliment.  Normally @DrJack54 and myself are in full agreement on Visa/Immigration matters.

> So Jack, can you provide some background on why you did give a 'Confused' emoticon on my Hand-holding/Fixer Agent post.

[NoshowJones]

37 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

No, they are 'in league with'  an agent , who does the illegal process. Read Peter Denis's post above.

Yes, but also read the services the agent 'in league with' Thaivisa does. I get the impression that the said agent, is similar to all the other reputable agents.

I would also like to hear from anybody who knows anyone who was been deported or prosecuted for using any of the reputable agents services.

[KannikaP]

4 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Yes, but also read the services the agent 'in league with' Thaivisa does.

Is 'Gets you round having to have 800k in the bank for a retirement extension' mentioned?.

It angers me that many/most of us comply with the Immigration law & regulations, be they right, wrong, fair or unfair, while other simply pay an Agent some brown envelope money to circumvent those laws.

Edited April 18, 2021 by KannikaP

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, KannikaP said:

Is 'Gets you round having to have 800k in the bank for a retirement extension' mentioned?.

It will be when you start using the agents services.

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Thanks for the compliment.  Normally @DrJack54 and myself are in full agreement on Visa/Immigration matters.

> So Jack, can you provide some background on why you did give a 'Confused' emoticon on my Hand-holding/Fixer Agent post.

Bit confused with these words.....

 "with those having made use of that Fixer Agent service as collateral damage, being deported from Thailand with 1 to 10 year bans"

 

There has been another rock solid member that has also stated this has occured in the past.

My problem is that I have never read or heard of it. With social media I would have expected to be aware of these events. Pretty big news

[KannikaP]

2 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

It will be when you start using the agents services.

I will never need to do that thankfully.