Selling gold - taxes

[Danderman123]

I am a firm believer in buying at market bottoms, and this has got to be the bottom of the market for bars in Pattaya. So, I am looking at purchasing a partial interest in a small bar.

 

Please don’t waste my time telling me that it’s a bad idea. 
 

What I am looking for is data:

 

What is the market value of a shophouse bar that averages about 15,000 baht a day in revenues? I am looking for order of magnitude estimates, or accounts of past ownership.

 

Are there advantages in terms of visas in buying into a bar?

 

Any tricks or traps in conveying the money to the current owners?

 

Are there any risks beyond losing my investment plus the possibility of infinite capital calls when the bar loses money?

 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

[Surelynot]

License to print money if you know exactly what you are doing/up against......I had a bar between Soi Buakhao and 2nd Road.....long time ago..... made a fortune November to February.

[MyFriend You]

     Be still my heart, have I been transported back to the early seventies where 85% of the bars in Pattaya were owned by Americans??   It's all a crapshoot in Pats, your biggest expense to remain open is Tea money, to everyone.   You need a theme, something no one else is doing, something the long term residents will come to depend on, a place where "they know they can go where everybody knows their name".  I think Pattaya has to lead the world on bars that have changed hands more times over the last 30 years.   The ones that seem to remain open have an appeal to the long term folks.  I have no data for you, hope someone that has not (or has)lost his/her bar can explain why they had to close so you don't make the same mistake.  Me, I sold my place for 40 times what I paid for it, it was on the ppty that the Nang Nual Seafood sits today..............that was 1981, took the money and ran, never opened another one. 

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

What is the market value of a shophouse bar that averages about 15,000 baht a day in revenues? I am looking for order of magnitude estimates, or accounts of past ownership.

You may as well be asking how long is a piece of string. There is no magic formula where revenue equals X therefore value equals Y. A bar is worth whatever someone is willing to sell it for or whatever someone is willing to buy it for. You are not buying Microsoft shares.

You are basically buying some fitout and the lease of the premises, any goodwill, customer base, revenue is unknown or could be easily made up, especially after a year of covid.

 

There are no special visa advantages owning a bar, if you are under 50 then its the opposite as you dont have many options to stay long-term.

 

You can pay the bar owner however you like, keep in mind you will also be paying the building owner a one off payment referred to as key money, paid when a lease changes hands

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Peterw42

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

You may as well be asking how long is a piece of string. There is no magic formula where revenue equals X therefore value equals Y. A bar is worth whatever someone is willing to sell it for or whatever someone is willing to buy it for. You are not buying Microsoft shares.

You are basically buying some fitout and the lease of the premises, any goodwill, customer base, revenue is unknown or could be easily made up, especially after a year of covid.

 

There are no special visa advantages owning a bar, if you are under 50 then its the opposite as you dont have many options to stay long-term.

 

You can pay the owner however you like, keep in mind you will also be paying the building owner a one off payment referred to as key money, paid when a lase changes hands

 

 

So much depends on the mama-san......I know a bar on Soi 7, Pattaya, it is set back, and to look at it (if you could even see it) you would think....not a snowballs chance of making money, probably doesn't now, but in 'normal' times it made a fortune.......solely down to her efforts.

[Natai Beach]

You want just a bar or do want to have a bar with sex workers and be a pimp? 
 

Either way, no need to buy an existing bar and paying “goodwill”.

Just lease one that has already been abandoned, preferably with the bar and furniture already set up, sign a long lease with many short options eg 2x2x2x etc free for the first 3 months. 

Then put the word out that you need girls with low education and morals prepared to hire out their genitals to all your customers. Plenty of former ones currently out of work, shouldn’t be hard to find.
 

Then get yourself a mink coat, some gold chains, a Cadillac and a stick. 
Good to go.

[Excel]

If you don't know the answer to those questions already then you should neither be buying a bar nor asking for advice on a forum.  You should really be appointing a business advisor in that local area who not only would be able to converse with perspective owners in that area but also be a damned good comedian  ????????????

[Excel]

25 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

License to print money if you know exactly what you are doing/up against......I had a bar between Soi Buakhao and 2nd Road.....long time ago..... made a fortune November to February.

I had a brothel once but kept eating the profits

[Peterw42]

12 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

So much depends on the mama-san......I know a bar on Soi 7, Pattaya, it is set back, and to look at it (if you could even see it) you would think....not a snowballs chance of making money, probably doesn't now, but in 'normal' times it made a fortune.......solely down to her efforts.

No doubt some make money (or did) but the OP appears to be under the impression all the bars will be lined up for sale with a neat little realistic price based on revenue.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Peterw42

[Natai Beach]

12 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

So much depends on the mama-san......I know a bar on Soi 7, Pattaya, it is set back, and to look at it (if you could even see it) you would think....not a snowballs chance of making money, probably doesn't now, but in 'normal' times it made a fortune.......solely down to her efforts.

She sounds lovely.

[Surelynot]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

 the OP appears to be under the impression all the bars will be lined up for sale with a neat little realistic price based on revenue.

Oh dear!!!...555

[Surelynot]

Just now, Natai Beach said:

She sounds lovely.

A real live wire....owner and mama-san.......drives the bar 24/7....and gets fully reward for her efforts.

[Natai Beach]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

I am a firm believer in buying at market bottoms, and this has got to be the bottom 

Selling bottoms in Pattaya is probably the bottom of the barrel.

[Excel]

Just now, Natai Beach said:

Selling bottoms in Pattaya is probably the bottom of the barrel.

Actually there is nothing wrong with a nice bottom, so long it is female that is

[Excel]

3 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

A real live wire....owner and mama-san.......drives the bar 24/7....and gets fully reward for her efforts.

so its a mobile bar then ?

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, Excel said:

so its a mobile bar then ?

You don't see so many of the little, brightly lit, mobile cocktail bars as you used to?....or maybe I am not going to the right places anymore

[Peterw42]

18 minutes ago, Natai Beach said:

You want just a bar or do want to have a bar with sex workers and be a pimp? 
 

Either way, no need to buy an existing bar and paying “goodwill”.

Just lease one that has already been abandoned, preferably with the bar and furniture already set up, sign a long lease with many short options eg 2x2x2x etc free for the first 3 months. 

Then put the word out that you need girls with low education and morals prepared to hire out their genitals to all your customers. Plenty of former ones currently out of work, shouldn’t be hard to find.
 

Then get yourself a mink coat, some gold chains, a Cadillac and a stick. 
Good to go.

Great post, probably the most honest and realistic bar owning post I have ever read.

[Excel]

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

You don't see so many of the little, brightly lit, mobile cocktail bars as you used to?....or maybe I am not going to the right places anymore

Yes there used to be loads of them, guess as most of them were having to pay the police to operate as they had no licence for selling alcohol and coupled with the downturn all packed up. Up here in Udon saw one operating a few months ago. They were almost all converted Volkswagens originally.

[Excel]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Great post, probably the most honest and realistic bar owning post I have ever read.

Really, total rubbish. No one wears a mink coat in Thailand and certainly not in Pattaya and you should know it, far to hot. Sure you don't mean a semi transparent, extremely short raincoat with velcro in lieu of buttons ?  ????

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Excel said:

Yes there used to be loads of them, guess as most of them were having to pay the police to operate as they had no licence for selling alcohol and coupled with the downturn all packed up. Up here in Udon saw one operating a few months ago. They were almost all converted Volkswagens originally.

Always used to have a quick cocktail on the way out........very eye catching....funnily enough, one has just opened up on our soi just in the last week.....must pay it visit.

[Surelynot]

Just now, Excel said:

Really, total rubbish. No one wears a mink coat in Thailand and certainly not in Pattaya and you should know it, far to hot. Sure you don't mean a semi transparent, extremely short raincoat with velcro in lieu of buttons ?  ????

All fur coat and no.......

[Excel]

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

All fur coat and no.......

false teeth ?

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Excel said:

false teeth ?

Sounds like soi Nana at the minute.

[Excel]

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

Sounds like soi Nana at the minute.

You mean its that cold you can here their teeth chattering ?  Guess that is closed for 2 weeks now

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, Excel said:

You mean its that cold you can here their teeth chattering ?  Guess that is closed for 2 weeks now

That (c)old................the bigger, 'legal' bars will close, the smaller police owned ones just stick a hotplate out front, fry up some spring rolls, and swear blind they are now restaurants. 

[Natai Beach]

40 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

A real live wire....owner and mama-san.......drives the bar 24/7....and gets fully reward for her efforts.

 Just up the stairs and to the left?

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Natai Beach

[Surelynot]

6 minutes ago, Natai Beach said:

 Just up the stairs and to the left?

 

 

OMG....YES!!!! Gael....if that is how you spell her name.

[Pilotman]

There is a prolific, if sleazy and deranged, U Tube blogger that has information for you OP, whether you believe a word he has to say is another matter, but its as good 'data' as you will find anywhere. However, I will add that you are right in your opening post, its most definitely a very bad idea. 

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

There is a prolific, if sleazy and deranged, U Tube blogger that has information for you OP, whether you believe a word he has to say is another matter, but its as good 'data' as you will find anywhere. However, I will add that you are right in your opening post, its most definitely a very bad idea. 

You have just described most Pattaya based youtubers