Buying a Bar in Pattaya

[Danderman123]

A reminder that I am looking to buy a partial interest in a bar, not open up and run one myself. That would be too much like work.

 

If nobody wants to sell, Mai pen rai.

 

 

 

 

[Pilotman]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

You have just described most Pattaya based youtubers

True enough 

[Surelynot]

18 minutes ago, Natai Beach said:

 Just up the stairs and to the left?

 

 

Yes....couple of pool tables.....very lively in better days.

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

A reminder that I am looking to buy a partial interest in a bar, not open up and run one myself. That would be too much like work.

 

If nobody wants to sell, Mai pen rai.

 

 

 

 

If the owner is still there and interested I would at least consider Luxor Bar, soi 7......she knows the business inside out.....and might welcome some investment.....who knows??

[Orinoco]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Please don’t waste my time telling me that it’s a bad idea. 

Ok, Go for it. ????????????

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, Orinoco said:

Ok, Go for it. ????????????

I’m trying to avoid this:

 

”it’s a bad idea”

 

”why?”

 

”I don’t know, it just is”.

 

 

[Natai Beach]

3 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

If the owner is still there and interested I would at least consider Luxor Bar, soi 7......she knows the business inside out.....and might welcome some investment.....who knows??

You would want to be good.
She is as shrewd as they cum. 
She would have you in a wig, make up and a dress and turning trucks in no time. 

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, Natai Beach said:

You would want to be good.
She is as shrewd as they cum. 
She would have you in a wig, make up and a dress and turning trucks in no time. 

Yes....she is as sharp as a tack.

[Tagged]

You can start study every singel bare in Pattaya that is still open, and see what they are doing. Im sure you will find many simular reasons why they are still in business, since what you see now it the bottom low as you said, and this is how your low season is going to look like. 

 

Nr 1 is location, so if the bar did not make money before covid, it is not much likely it will after all this is over either. 

 

Buying a bar? Buy the inventory or buy the bar? Not many bar owners own the bar itself, they rent. 

 

If you have no previous experience, something I doubt since you have the balls to ask these questions here, then I can tell you, you will be better off buying a guesthouse with a bar and start making a concept. Plenty of Guesthouses for sale these days. 

 

Still the most important is to have solid girls who work for you, and not just run away with the first and best customer. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Tagged

[Danderman123]

Just now, Tagged said:

You can start and study every singel bare in Pattaya that is still open, and see what they are doing. Im sure you will find many simular reasons why they are still in business, since what you see now it the bottom low as you said, and this is how your low season is going to look like. 

 

Nr 1 is location, so if the bar did not make money before covid, it is not much likely it will after all this is over either. 

 

Buying a bar? Buy the inventory or buy the bar? Not many bar owners own the bar itself, they rent. 

Someone posted above what a bar owner actually “owns”, maybe some fixtures and furniture, a lease, goodwill, and some inventory.

[Ventenio]

let's say he opens a bar and someone doesn't like them.

 

can they simply bring an underage girl there, call the cops, and say she is selling sex..... 500,000 fine, jail, etc...

 

just seems like any day everything could crumble...

 

knew one guy had a bar.  fined 100,000 one day.  and closed shop maybe 2 years later.  

 

use your money and buy crypto currencies and then go to any bar in the world....

[Tagged]

24 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

A reminder that I am looking to buy a partial interest in a bar, not open up and run one myself. That would be too much like work.

 

If nobody wants to sell, Mai pen rai.

 

 

 

 

Better off spending the money on lottery ticket, or put the money on fire. 

 

Your bar investment will not pay of by itself without hard work, sitting with customers, listen to the girls problem, who tell you their bf is a butterfly, and do not understand her

 

, buy gold or bitcoin and see what pays off best  in the end. 

 

One of the better trolling post lately,,,,,, 

[scubascuba3]

53 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

A reminder that I am looking to buy a partial interest in a bar, not open up and run one myself. That would be too much like work.

 

If nobody wants to sell, Mai pen rai.

 

 

 

 

Why? explain the motivation? be honest with yourself

[sead]

Since you dont want me to tell you its an bad ideathat ill just leave you to it and let you experience it yourself.

[Danderman123]

Not a lot of business types here.

 

I am looking to buy a partial interest in an existing bar. Not open up a new bar, or completely take over an existing bar.

 

I know that some bars do have partial owners.

 

I am trying to understand the usual market value of a small bar. For example, Nightwish had 28 bars, mostly small.  That’s the size of bar I am looking at. No, I don’t want to buy into a Nightwish bar.

 

I am looking for a bar that sort of breaks even now (I mean before the current closure), in the hopes of future profits after the virus passes.

[Danderman123]

9 hours ago, Tagged said:

Better off spending the money on lottery ticket, or put the money on fire. 

 

Your bar investment will not pay of by itself without hard work, sitting with customers, listen to the girls problem, who tell you their bf is a butterfly, and do not understand her

 

, buy gold or bitcoin and see what pays off best  in the end. 

 

One of the better trolling post lately,,,,,, 

You mean buy a commodity when its price is at an all time peak?

 

let me repeat that I want to buy a share in an existing bar, not run one by myself.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Danderman123

[tgw]

9 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Someone posted above what a bar owner actually “owns”, maybe some fixtures and furniture, a lease, goodwill, and some inventory.

 

well, currently, all those things are worth nearly zero, some are even worth less than zero, and nearly zero is the value you will get for any investment in such a venture.

 

if you want to do a serious investment that also has a chance long term, you need to buy the walls too.

 

right now, you can see which businesses in Pattaya own their walls, or have the same owner or a close partnership with the owner of the real estate: they make up about 80% of restaurant/hotel/entertainment businesses that are still open.

Edited April 17, 2021 by tgw

[Pravda]

14 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Please don’t waste my time telling me that it’s a bad idea. 

 

How did that work out for you so far? 

 

You don't even understand Thailand forum and you want a share in mafia bar. 

 

Absolutely hilarious. 

[Chivas]

On 4/17/2021 at 6:08 AM, Pilotman said:

There is a prolific, if sleazy and deranged, U Tube blogger that has information for you OP, whether you believe a word he has to say is another matter, but its as good 'data' as you will find anywhere. However, I will add that you are right in your opening post, its most definitely a very bad idea. 

 

lol I've a good idea as to whom you're referring

[Tagged]

15 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You mean buy a commodity when its price is at an all time peak?

 

let me repeat that I want to buy a share in an existing bar, not run one by myself.

And I say I would take my chance in lottery, bitcoin or gold.

 

Gold in my eyes the best long term investment, bitcoin a gamble it will climb to new records in short time or in another two years, or at some point collaps, lottery I will rank the same as a bar investment, for one with no interest or knownledge in running a bar, with no interest in do the hard work to make it succesful,  or with no network around you, that would help the bar. 

 

If I run a succesful bar, why would I want you as an partner, except to milk your money out of you as long it last, and then trow you under the buss? 

 

Think about it for a second

[Danderman123]

I did some due diligence on buying a bar. The most significant information is that bars are cheap, on the order of a million baht, two million baht, maybe 3, for a shophouse type bar, depending on location and goodwill.

 

The issue isn’t so much the valuation of the bar, but potential losses from future adverse events.

[digibum]

On 4/17/2021 at 12:25 PM, Danderman123 said:

I’m trying to avoid this:

 

”it’s a bad idea”

 

”why?”

 

”I don’t know, it just is”.

 

 

It should be obvious why this is the typical conversation.  
 

Most of the comments are coming from people who have seen the same bars turn over ownership again, and again, and again when someone who lacks bar experience tries to buy a bar and figures out they know nothing about running a bar.  
 

I think your instincts of wanting to buy while there is blood in the streets is valid from a business perspective, but even during good times, buying a bar with no clue how to operate a bar often will mean that the blood in the streets is yours.

And if you think you’re going to hire someone or take on a partner, if you have no idea how to run a bar, how would you even know that they’re any good?  
 

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, digibum said:

It should be obvious why this is the typical conversation.  
 

Most of the comments are coming from people who have seen the same bars turn over ownership again, and again, and again when someone who lacks bar experience tries to buy a bar and figures out they know nothing about running a bar.  
 

I think your instincts of wanting to buy while there is blood in the streets is valid from a business perspective, but even during good times, buying a bar with no clue how to operate a bar often will mean that the blood in the streets is yours.

And if you think you’re going to hire someone or take on a partner, if you have no idea how to run a bar, how would you even know that they’re any good?  
 

I have no interest in operating a bar, or buying a majority share.

 

my interest is only in buying a small stake in an existing bar. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Danderman123

[digibum]

49 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I have no interest in operating a bar, or buying a majority share.

 

my interest is only in buying a small stake in an existing bar. 

Then your question about valuation is confusing.  Wouldn’t the majority shareholders be the ones determining what is a good value to pay for a bar?  
 

In that case, you’re not just buying a bar, you’re buying into a partnership.   
 

A good partner is worth more than a bad one regardless of how much money the bar makes.   
 

There are people that I would pay a premium to be in business with and there are people that I wouldn’t go into business with if they were giving away stock for free.
 

Let me lay out a scenario for you.  
 

You find someone who is willing to sell you 10% of their bar or is going to buy a bar and you buy in for 10%.  
 

Covid disappears, bars open back up, and your partner comes to you and tells you that the first month back the bar lost 100,000 baht and you need to come up with 10,000 baht or reduce your ownership.

But don’t worry, things will pick back up.  This is normal for a new bar or a bar opening after being closed for months.  

 

You, pay 10,000 and the next month, your partner tells you the bar lost 200,000 and you need to pony up 20,000 baht or reduce your ownership.  
 

Same thing happens month 3 and month 4 and you eventually figure out that your partner is ripping you off.  
 

Your options are to keep paying like a sucker or give him back your 10% stake and walk away.  
 

What’s the valuation of that business?  LOL.   

And, really, there’s nothing even illegal happening so you have no legal recourse.  You’re a minority shareholder.  If he wants to pay his GF 200,000 baht a month salary, there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it.  

 

You know that old saying, if you have to ask, you can’t afford it?   This is like that saying, if you have to ask on a public forum, how to value a bar, you don’t know enough to be a bar owner.   
 

It doesn’t mean you’re stupid.  It just means that you don’t know enough to know how to protect yourself and your investment.  

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

 

 

my interest is only in buying a small stake in an existing bar. 

Why?

 

Maybe approach Brian Flowers who runs Nightwish  Soi 6 bars (check his YouTube videos) probably looking for more cash about now

[Danderman123]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

Why?

 

Maybe approach Brian Flowers who runs Nightwish  Soi 6 bars (check his YouTube videos) probably looking for more cash about now

I am sure they are, but I don't like their business model. Not from a financial perspective, though, just not my kind of bar.

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, digibum said:

Then your question about valuation is confusing.  Wouldn’t the majority shareholders be the ones determining what is a good value to pay for a bar?  
 

In that case, you’re not just buying a bar, you’re buying into a partnership.   
 

A good partner is worth more than a bad one regardless of how much money the bar makes.   
 

There are people that I would pay a premium to be in business with and there are people that I wouldn’t go into business with if they were giving away stock for free.
 

Let me lay out a scenario for you.  
 

You find someone who is willing to sell you 10% of their bar or is going to buy a bar and you buy in for 10%.  
 

Covid disappears, bars open back up, and your partner comes to you and tells you that the first month back the bar lost 100,000 baht and you need to come up with 10,000 baht or reduce your ownership.

But don’t worry, things will pick back up.  This is normal for a new bar or a bar opening after being closed for months.  

 

You, pay 10,000 and the next month, your partner tells you the bar lost 200,000 and you need to pony up 20,000 baht or reduce your ownership.  
 

Same thing happens month 3 and month 4 and you eventually figure out that your partner is ripping you off.  
 

Your options are to keep paying like a sucker or give him back your 10% stake and walk away.  
 

What’s the valuation of that business?  LOL.   

And, really, there’s nothing even illegal happening so you have no legal recourse.  You’re a minority shareholder.  If he wants to pay his GF 200,000 baht a month salary, there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it.  

 

You know that old saying, if you have to ask, you can’t afford it?   This is like that saying, if you have to ask on a public forum, how to value a bar, you don’t know enough to be a bar owner.   
 

It doesn’t mean you’re stupid.  It just means that you don’t know enough to know how to protect yourself and your investment.  

Yep, I can think of many ways that a bar can manufacture paper losses.

[scubascuba3]

4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I am sure they are, but I don't like their business model. Not from a financial perspective, though, just not my kind of bar.

If they manage to survive covid you are more likely to make money with them than any other samey bar

[Thomas J]

On 4/17/2021 at 8:25 AM, Danderman123 said:

am a firm believer in buying at market bottoms, and this has got to be the bottom of the market for bars in Pattaya. So, I am looking at purchasing a partial interest in a small bar.

I guess what I wonder is what you are getting when you "buy a bar"  Is it the location, license to sell alcohol, seating, glasses?   A business is sold for more than liquidation of its assets when it has something of value.  If you could potentially just find a location, stock it with fresh alcoholic beverages, purchase some used restaurant equipment etc. why would you pay a bar owner anything more than the salvage value of the inventory, equipment and furnishings?   Unless there is something unique about the location, or it can be established that upon reopening it has a loyal customer base that will return, paying anything more than the liquidation value of the contents would not seem logical.  Businesses are typically sold as a multiple of their earnings which today has to be zero for a bar.  

Edited May 19, 2021 by Thomas J

[digibum]

3 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Businesses are typically sold as a multiple of their earnings which today has to be zero for a bar.  

Bars sell at whatever price some stary-eyed foreigner who thinks he will be getting drunk, hobnobbing with Pattaya’s elite farangs, and having sex with his staff, everyday can muster together.  
 

Only then is the bar sold for book value to an experienced bar owner who patiently waits for the next dreamer to come wandering down the Soi so he can sell the bar at 10x it’s worth again.