Where To Buy Solar Hybrid Inverter And what to buy

[Crossy]

You can actually measure how much juice you use in the sun-off hours.

 

Read your meter at about 4PM and again at about 8AM, that should give you a ballpark figure for how much storage you need to go "mostly" off-grid.

 

Obviously you still have grid power for backup if your batteries go flat over night.

 

 

[ThaSalaPaul]

1 minute ago, Muhendis said:

Do you want to be completely independent from the grid or will be happy to use some of it (when available) for example for the swimming pool pump etc?

I'm happy to use the grid when needed. I have 2 aims. 1 to reduce the bill (hopefully by 3 - 5k per month) and 2 to have electricity during the frequent power cuts (which mostly seem to happen during the day)

[ThaSalaPaul]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

You can actually measure how much juice you use in the sun-off hours.

 

Read your meter at about 4PM and again at about 8AM, that should give you a ballpark figure for how much storage you need to go "mostly" off-grid.

 

Obviously you still have grid power for backup if your batteries go flat over night.

 

 

Excellent idea, thank you

[Crossy]

7 minutes ago, ThaSalaPaul said:

Excellent idea, thank you

 

One tries ???? 

 

If you read the meter again at 4PM (second time) you can then estimate your daytime usage too.

 

Your solar needs to generate the sum of the two.

[ThaSalaPaul]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

If you read the meter again at 4PM (second time) you can then estimate your daytime usage too.

 

Your solar needs to generate the sum of the two.

Right. Glad I checked this forum out. You've all been very helpful.
Could I trouble you all for suggestions on a 10kW (or 2 x 5kW) 3 phase inverter that would be cheaper than Growatt (they said they like Growatt because of it's name and guarantee - however I was thinking to go for a "much" cheaper inverter with a shorter like span with the idea that the tech is improving and getting cheaper all the time. Not sure if that's realistic)

[Crossy]

Here in sunny Thailand you can guesstimate your realistic solar output by:-

Installed capacity x 0.5 x 6 hours = Energy Generated.

Solving for Installed Capacity = Energy Generated / (6 x 0.5).

 

We have Sofar inverters, but they aren't particularly cheap either.

[ThaSalaPaul]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Here in sunny Thailand you can guesstimate your realistic solar output by:-

Installed capacity x 0.5 x 6 hours = Energy Generated.

Solving for Installed Capacity = Energy Generated / (6 x 0.5).

 

We have Sofar inverters, but they aren't particularly cheap either.

Showing my ignorance here, but "Installed capacity" would be the sum of the wattage of the panels? 

[BritManToo]

27 minutes ago, ThaSalaPaul said:

Thanks for the suggestion, really appreciate it. I will look into it

Ask them why they want to use Gel batteries?

As Thai installers usually like 100Kbht for the install, I'd suspect the Gel batteries were s/h out of someone else's system that's just been upgraded.

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, ThaSalaPaul said:

Showing my ignorance here, but "Installed capacity" would be the sum of the wattage of the panels? 

Solar panels only produce 1/2 the watts they advertise.

So a 330w panel generally produces 1 unit a day, a 450w panel 1.5 units/day, etc.

 

[Crossy]

9 minutes ago, ThaSalaPaul said:

Showing my ignorance here, but "Installed capacity" would be the sum of the wattage of the panels? 

 

Yup.

[BritManToo]

29 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Yup.

Will 35mm copper multi-strand welding cable do for connecting 48V batteries with 150A load?

Anything with 'solar' costs $$$$$$, I can't see any difference in spec apart from the price.

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Will 35mm copper multi-strand welding cable do for connecting 48V batteries with 150A load?

Anything with 'solar' costs $$$$$$, I can't see any difference in spec apart from the price.

 

150A and 35mm² cable is pretty near the line particularly if the load is continuous (welding is by nature intermittent), bigger cable is better of course, or parallel up two lengths of 35mm².

 

Welding cable is generally a good choice, but much of the "35mm²" I've seen on sale would struggle to actually be 16mm² ???? 

 

You could use 35mm² THW-F (IEC 02) which is nearly as flexible but would be more $$$.

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, Crossy said:

150A and 35mm² cable is pretty near the line particularly if the load is continuous (welding is by nature intermittent), bigger cable is better of course, or parallel up two lengths of 35mm².

100A Max continuous load, there'll be a 125A 2P DC MCB in the line.

I'm thinking it'll be OK. I guess the real test will be, does it get hot!

Edited February 14, 2022 by BritManToo

[Crossy]

Just now, BritManToo said:

100A Max continuous load, there'll be a 125A 2P DC MCB in the line.

I'm thinking it'll be OK.

 

If it's the good stuff I reckon you'll be fine.

[Muhendis]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

150A and 35mm² cable is pretty near the line particularly if the load is continuous (welding is by nature intermittent), bigger cable is better of course, or parallel up two lengths of 35mm².

 

Welding cable is generally a good choice, but much of the "35mm²" I've seen on sale would struggle to actually be 16mm² ???? 

 

You could use 35mm² THW-F (IEC 02) which is nearly as flexible but would be more $$$.

My local electrical/control systems shop does a good line in copper buss bar. Why not get some of that?

I use 15mm x 5mm (that"s 75mm²) and I didn't need a bank loan to get it. Pig tails from each of the three rows of battery are 25mm²

'tis a one off purchase - fit and forget. So for me cost was secondary.

[Muhendis]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Ask them why they want to use Gel batteries?

As Thai installers usually like 100Kbht for the install, I'd suspect the Gel batteries were s/h out of someone else's system that's just been upgraded.

Good question.

My 250 Ah 12v Gel batteries came in at around 11,000 Baht each inclusive 3½ years ago. I don't know LiFePO4 prices but it is probably a better choice to have them installed and enjoy the longer performance. If you fit the same capacity LiFePO4's, life expectancy will be at least double that of gels.

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Good question.

My 250 Ah 12v Gel batteries came in at around 11,000 Baht each inclusive 3½ years ago. I don't know LiFePO4 prices but it is probably a better choice to have them installed and enjoy the longer performance. If you fit the same capacity LiFePO4's, life expectancy will be at least double that of gels.

LifePo4 batteries,

50Kbht for new 48V 260Ah

30Kbht for 48V 200Ah (using s/h CALB golf cart cells)

Edited February 14, 2022 by BritManToo

[Crossy]

15 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

LifePo4 batteries,

50Kbht for new 48V 260Ah

30Kbht for 48V 200Ah (using s/h CALB golf cart cells)

 

Of course, can you be certain the 260Ah cells really are "new". Far, far too many stories on other alternative energy fora of "new" cells out of China being anything but!

 

At least with the used cells you know they are used.

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

Of course, can you be certain the 260Ah cells really are "new". Far, far too many stories on other alternative energy fora of "new" cells out of China being anything but!

 

At least with the used cells you know they are used.

 

Also the weight put me off the TJSolar locker battery 110Kg, too bulky.

The CALB cells are 5Kg each, so easy to move around (80Kg total)

[Muhendis]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

Of course, can you be certain the 260Ah cells really are "new". Far, far too many stories on other alternative energy fora of "new" cells out of China being anything but!

 

At least with the used cells you know they are used.

 

Well you could always insist on a C of C with every cell.........????

[Pink7]

23 hours ago, ThaSalaPaul said:

Thanks for your reply. 
Normally we would have one 12k BTU aircon running til morning and a 19kBTU aircon on from around 6PM - 10PM, plus a couple of TV's. The swimming pool pump is on from 5PM until 9PM.
They told us the system would generate around 5k-7k worth of electricity per month. I'm expecting that it may be more likely to be around 4k and thus would require some from the grid. Initially they quoted 314k Baht, but then changed it to 399k as they said they hadn't realised it was 3phase (despite being told numerous times). They say that the 3Phase (Growatt 10kW) inverter is 135k Baht

I have just got price from MPP Solar on their new PIP-MAX SERIES 11K  (hybrid) for USD 1360. Including DHL  shipping. ( with low value on docs for low vat.)

[Muhendis]

23 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

I have just got price from MPP Solar on their new PIP-MAX SERIES 11K  (hybrid) for USD 1360. Including DHL  shipping. ( with low value on docs for low vat.)

That's a bit expensive but there seem to be many features and door to door delivery. Is customs duty + the DHL extra bit included?

I used to have three of their 4kW inverters in parallel and, until a nearby double lightning strike took out two of them, they all worked very well but noisy. So if anyone wants an MPP 4kW inverter going cheap, pm me.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Muhendis
smell check

[Pink7]

3 hours ago, Muhendis said:

That's a bit expensive but there seem to be many features and door to door delivery. Is customs duty + the DHL extra bit included?

I used to have three of their 4kW inverters in parallel and, until a nearby double lightning strike took out two of them, they all worked very well but noisy. So if anyone wants an MPP 4kW inverter going cheap, pm me.

Yes + custom, but Seller told she was was ok to use $300 or so as sales price in the sales documents. Did you had some protection for lightening before your inverters?

 

Pink

Edited February 15, 2022 by Pink7

[Crossy]

9 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

Yes + custom, but Seller told she was was ok to use $300 or so as sales price in the sales documents.

 

If the seller is in China ask if they can use "Thailand Special Line" which is all tax paid and no more costly than regular shipping.

 

[007 RED]

55 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

Yes + custom, but Seller told she was was ok to use $300 or so as sales price in the sales documents. Did you had some protection for lightening before your inverters?

 

Pink

A word of caution.... Customs are not stupid.  They are well aware that bulky goods coming from China regularly have declarations with low cost invoices attached.  All they, or their agent - in this case DHL - will do is look up the seller on the internet and see the normal selling price and charge you the relevant import duty and VAT plus a possible fine for false declaration.

 

FYI... Based upon your original figure of $1,360 the import duty based upon CIF (Cost + Insurance + Transport)  @ 30% = $408.  They then charge VAT '7% based upon original cost + duty ($1,360 + $408) = $123.  Your Import charge may well be around $531 or 16,461 THB.

 

The above is based upon figures derived from https://www.simplyduty.com/import-calculator/

 

PS.... The major couriers (which includes DHL, Fedex etc) have a vested interest in ensuring the correct import duty and VAT are collected ---- they get a % back.

 

Good luck.

Edited February 15, 2022 by 007 RED
PS added

[Pink7]

2 hours ago, 007 RED said:

A word of caution.... Customs are not stupid.  They are well aware that bulky goods coming from China regularly have declarations with low cost invoices attached.  All they, or their agent - in this case DHL - will do is look up the seller on the internet and see the normal selling price and charge you the relevant import duty and VAT plus a possible fine for false declaration.

 

FYI... Based upon your original figure of $1,360 the import duty based upon CIF (Cost + Insurance + Transport)  @ 30% = $408.  They then charge VAT '7% based upon original cost + duty ($1,360 + $408) = $123.  Your Import charge may well be around $531 or 16,461 THB.

 

The above is based upon figures derived from https://www.simplyduty.com/import-calculator/

 

PS.... The major couriers (which includes DHL, Fedex etc) have a vested interest in ensuring the correct import duty and VAT are collected ---- they get a % back.

 

Good luck.

Ok that become quite allot more than i had expected, i had guessed for a 7% or something.

 

Pink

[Muhendis]

Small point but MPP is Taiwanese and they are a bit touchy about China who copies them.

[Muhendis]

4 hours ago, Pink7 said:

Did you had some protection for lightening before your inverters?

It is included in the AC input filter but totally inadequate for the conditions at the time. My utility supply was 1kM from the last post and strung up in the trees. The lightning strikes didn't hit the cables but the EMP's immediately took out two of the inverters leaving me with just 4kW. I now have additional surge suppression but I doubt if that would help against what happened. It was a truly ground shaking moment.

I also refuse to allow utility mains anywhere near my inverters now.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Muhendis
new information

[Pink7]

1 hour ago, Muhendis said:

I now have additional surge suppression but I doubt if that would help against what happened. It was a truly ground shaking moment.

I also refuse to allow utility mains anywhere near my inverters now.

What surge suppression you have? 

I also refuse to allow utility mains anywhere near my inverters now: Can you explain?

 

Pink

[Muhendis]

8 hours ago, Pink7 said:

What surge suppression you have? 

I also refuse to allow utility mains anywhere near my inverters now: Can you explain?

 

Pink

On the output side of the utility supply MCB I have one of these:

https://shopee.co.th/กันฟ้าผ่า-Ac-surge-protection-2P-สำหรับไฟบ้าน-220v-มีให้เลือกหลายยี่ห้อ-i.51461286.3243507962?sp_atk=6ef613ca-179a-4b85-ac3e-cb0122339f7d

 

All-in-one inverters have a utility supply input which the unit uses to charge the batteries when there is no solar input and/or to supply power to the house etc. in the event of battery under-voltage. This is electronically switched inside the inverter. The incoming utility supply has some surge protection devices which are insufficient to protect against lightning events. I use something called an ATS (automatic transfer switch) which is an either/or MCB arrangement with priority on the inverter house supply.

https://shopee.co.th/ATS-Automatic-Transfer-Switch-63A-2P-220V-สวิทช์สลับแหล่งจ่ายอัตโนมัติ-รุ่น-NDQ2-63(-Lovadon)-i.77183965.1727759720?sp_atk=55b9b5d7-3998-4a21-b8dc-1979d53acc2d