Are Foreigners Still Welcome Here?

[JR Texas]

I think it exactly means that, "planning to migrate away from Thailand." JRTexas, I'm hoping that your dream of getting out of Thailand will come true soon. I'm rooting for you to get out of my country asap! That's from me personally.

JR Texas to ThaiGoon: Thank you for your informative post.

So, you are Thai (you used the phrase "my country"). You should know that my criticisms/concerns are rooted in my desire to see Thailand become better than it is. I want to see a more humane, equitable and environmentally sound Thailand.

In general, I think negative actions lead to negative results.......cause and effect. What you see as "positive" I probably see as "negative." Time will tell which one of us is closer to the "truth."

And about the poll structure, the wording of it is a bit confusing. I would vote "preparing to migrate if ThaiGoon gets his way." But that was not one of the options. :D

[ThaiGoon]

[MrEarl]

Goonie I want to thank you for giving the rest of us permission to stay in your dreams

[ludosiam]

...sorry only part of the post got transmitted!

Well, regarding getting a PR I actually do fulfill the written requirements about consecutive B - Visas and do have a good Tax record for this but at Suan Plu had been told that it is almost impossible to get a PR and this encouraged me so much that I have never tried it.

[ludosiam]

I originally have started this poll to share some opinions and to know what other people in this board think about new visa regulations. If these opinions are of any use to foreigner who are living here and/ or do plan to permanently settle and invest a substantial amount then it was a useful discussion, if persons are being attacked then it wasn't any good at all. So far I am happy to read what other people think.

One of my points in this issue are that to me Thai business people who are actually run the government I believe are abusing their power to achieve an unfair advantage over companies where foreigners are involved. This is for sure on in the interest of Thailand as a nation but for personal gains.

[wolfmanjack]

I too feel very welcomed by the Thai people I am meeting in my daily live, otherwise I surely wouldn't be here. One odd statement came up in the discussion here: these welcoming Thai people voted for a Government that seems not to welcome foreigners. Could it be that the government has different interests than the people it should stand for? If I remember well a few members and sponsors of that government had started their businesses as Thai / Western joint ventures and these relationships went sour after businesses were up and running.

When Taksin first ran for PM, didn't one of his former school day class mates say that even in his school days taksin did not like falangs ?

The poor people did not vote for taksin because of xenophobic feelings. They voted for him because of the freebies. Some voted for him the second and third time because of the drug war. My wife definitely does not want me to leave thailand but she voted for taksin the last 2 times because his war on drugs got rid of the drug dealers in her village. When the innocent people getting killed is brought up to her she will say "yes that is bad but he still got rid of the drug dealers in my village."

The point i am trying to make is that most of the people voted for taksin because of some reason that affected them personally. The issue of falangs being able to reside in thailand directly affects a relatively low number of thais and most of them do not realize that it affects then negatively until someone takes the time to explain it to them.

[wolfmanjack]

there was another thread not too long ago with the same poll that made the same mistake you have. Neither made a distinction between feeling welcome by the current government or feeling welcome by the people.

I still feel welcome by the thai people i am around and most others. I do not feel welcome by the government.

I think you should have this poll deleted and start a new one with the proper distinction of who you want to know we are getting the negative or positive feelings from.

that's correct, I started that thread. if you don't like it, why don't you start your own thread? From the Nazi style raids on the niran condos to the let me see your papers please stop this on the street, that thais are showing their very ugly side

Why are you getting hostile with me ?? If you read all of the other posts many are unsure if the original question is meant to mean the gov or the common people. Many posters have made the distinction in there post and maybe they did so because i made my comment.

It would be sort of stupid for me to start a new thread simply to make the distinction wouldn't it ???

[JR Texas]

The "we do not want foreigners that are not rich attitude" is a terrible move by Thailand and is only hurting the economy. Compare Thailand's attitude with New Zealand, Australia and America..........all of which work hard to attract tourists from foreign countries that are not rich. Why? Because the vast majority of tourists are not rich!

It is much easier for an average foreigner to be a tourist in Thailand than for a Thai to be a tourist in foreignland especially the 3 countries you singled out.

These 3 countries maybe dreaming of tourists but are certainly not making it easy for the potential candidates rich or poor

JR Texas to Krub: I can't address your specific point......I can tell you that the USA, Australia and New Zealand are actively wanting budget tourists (the vast army of tourists roaming the planet today and spending their money).

In my own country, we have a huge industry devoted to budget tourists (can you say "Motel 6."). Hundreds of thousands of people (maybe millions) are employed in this sector. We devote large segments of space to such tourists in our national parks (e.g., spaces where tourists can just put a tent down and sleep for the night).

People forget: The vast majority of people on this planet are poor. [As an aside, check out the research I posted at the bottom of this on the daily cost of feeding a dairy cow.....something that the Bangkok Post and Nation will no doubt refuse to print even in a letter to the editor]

Most can't even think about tourism. Of those that can, the vast majority are not rich, but do have money to spend. These are the people that Thailand is pushing away to its detriment.

Only about 1% or less of the people on the planet are rich. These are the people Thailand thinks will take the place of the budget travelers it is pushing out (it will not happen).

The basic fact of tourism, that most countries in the world clearly understand, is that most tourists are not rich. A related fact is that, even though they are not rich, they do spend money and that is good for the bottom line.

An economically viable and sound tourism policy would target BOTH the budget travelers AND the rich travelers. An economically destructive tourism policy would only target a minority of rich travelers and push out the much larger group of budget travelers.

But that is how I see it.................

DAILY COST OF FEEDING A DAIRY COW

In order to provide milk, butter and cheese for hungry Americans, dairy farmers in the USA spend an average of $4.13 per cow per day on feed (milking ration).

(data from 2006, http://www.das.psu.edu/user/dairy/newslett...cfm?newsID=842)

ABOUT THREE BILLION PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH (ROUGHLY 50 PERCENT OF HUMANITY) LIVE ON LESS THAN TWO DOLLARS PER DAY, LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT WE SPEND ON A COW!

IS THIS PROGRESS?

p.s., I wonder how many Thais earn less per day than it cost to feed a dairy cow in the USA? And be honest, minimum wage aside, most make about 120-220 baht per day (US$3.46 - 6.35 per day)

[ThaiGoon]

As of 2005 (I think), 10% of Thai population was living under poverty line. About 1 or 2% I think earned less than 2 dollars a day.

And Krub is right, it's not that easy for Thais to get visas from the US, Australia and New Zealand, but we don't complain. Because we don't expect everything to be catered to our needs or handed to us, unlike some people on here.....

[tartempion]

I think it exactly means that, "planning to migrate away from Thailand." JRTexas, I'm hoping that your dream of getting out of Thailand will come true soon. I'm rooting for you to get out of my country asap! That's from me personally.

Unless you're born Thai this is NOT your country and never will.

[wolfmanjack]

The "we do not want foreigners that are not rich attitude" is a terrible move by Thailand and is only hurting the economy. Compare Thailand's attitude with New Zealand, Australia and America..........all of which work hard to attract tourists from foreign countries that are not rich. Why? Because the vast majority of tourists are not rich!

It is much easier for an average foreigner to be a tourist in Thailand than for a Thai to be a tourist in foreignland especially the 3 countries you singled out.

These 3 countries maybe dreaming of tourists but are certainly not making it easy for the potential candidates rich or poor

JR Texas to Krub: I can't address your specific point......I can tell you that the USA, Australia and New Zealand are actively wanting budget tourists (the vast army of tourists roaming the planet today and spending their money).

In my own country, we have a huge industry devoted to budget tourists (can you say "Motel 6."). Hundreds of thousands of people (maybe millions) are employed in this sector. We devote large segments of space to such tourists in our national parks (e.g., spaces where tourists can just put a tent down and sleep for the night).

People forget: The vast majority of people on this planet are poor. [As an aside, check out the research I posted at the bottom of this on the daily cost of feeding a dairy cow.....something that the Bangkok Post and Nation will no doubt refuse to print even in a letter to the editor]

Most can't even think about tourism. Of those that can, the vast majority are not rich, but do have money to spend. These are the people that Thailand is pushing away to its detriment.

Only about 1% or less of the people on the planet are rich. These are the people Thailand thinks will take the place of the budget travelers it is pushing out (it will not happen).

The basic fact of tourism, that most countries in the world clearly understand, is that most tourists are not rich. A related fact is that, even though they are not rich, they do spend money and that is good for the bottom line.

An economically viable and sound tourism policy would target BOTH the budget travelers AND the rich travelers. An economically destructive tourism policy would only target a minority of rich travelers and push out the much larger group of budget travelers.

But that is how I see it.................

DAILY COST OF FEEDING A DAIRY COW

In order to provide milk, butter and cheese for hungry Americans, dairy farmers in the USA spend an average of $4.13 per cow per day on feed (milking ration).

(data from 2006, http://www.das.psu.edu/user/dairy/newslett...cfm?newsID=842)

ABOUT THREE BILLION PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH (ROUGHLY 50 PERCENT OF HUMANITY) LIVE ON LESS THAN TWO DOLLARS PER DAY, LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT WE SPEND ON A COW!

IS THIS PROGRESS?

p.s., I wonder how many Thais earn less per day than it cost to feed a dairy cow in the USA? And be honest, minimum wage aside, most make about 120-220 baht per day (US$3.46 - 6.35 per day)

I agree with you 100% on the budget tourist vs the rich tourist argument. I am also from the USA and Motel 6 is not the only chain of hotels that caters to the budget traveler. I also agree that is where thailand (started by taksin) is shooting itself in the foot.

I asked the question on other threads about who was going to stay in the $350 per night Hotels that look like prisons on the outside that they are building here in Chiang Mai. The services and ass kissing that the rich desire do not exist here in Chiang Mai. It is better suited to the middle class and the budget tourist. Not the ultra rich.

I totally miss your point on the cost of feeding a dairy cow in the USA though. How does that relate to thailand ? They have dairy cows here and i am pretty sure that the cost of feeding them is much less here than in the USA just like the cost of feeding a human is less here.

[ThaiGoon]

I think it exactly means that, "planning to migrate away from Thailand." JRTexas, I'm hoping that your dream of getting out of Thailand will come true soon. I'm rooting for you to get out of my country asap! That's from me personally.

Unless you're born Thai this is NOT your country and never will.

I'm Thai born and bred.

[LivinLOS]

I think it exactly means that, "planning to migrate away from Thailand." JRTexas, I'm hoping that your dream of getting out of Thailand will come true soon. I'm rooting for you to get out of my country asap! That's from me personally.

Unless you're born Thai this is NOT your country and never will.

I'm Thai born and bred.

Only western educated then huh ??

[ThaiGoon]

I think it exactly means that, "planning to migrate away from Thailand." JRTexas, I'm hoping that your dream of getting out of Thailand will come true soon. I'm rooting for you to get out of my country asap! That's from me personally.

Unless you're born Thai this is NOT your country and never will.

I'm Thai born and bred.

Only western educated then huh ??

Technically both Thai and Western educated.

[wolfmanjack]

As of 2005 (I think), 10% of Thai population was living under poverty line. About 1 or 2% I think earned less than 2 dollars a day.

And Krub is right, it's not that easy for Thais to get visas from the US, Australia and New Zealand, but we don't complain. Because we don't expect everything to be catered to our needs or handed to us, unlike some people on here.....

Any thai that can show enough funds to support themselves for the number of days they want to spend in the USA and a compelling reason the return to thailand can get a visa to the USA if they do not lie to the USA embassie or consulate. I would be tickled pink if the Thai gov used the same requirements for immigration that the USA uses. In my situation with a thai wife and 2 thai children I would only have to show that i have earned 125% of the poverty level for a family of 4 in thailand for the last 3 years and I would be able to get a visa for immigration to Thailand. After 2 years I would be eligible to become a citizen. After that I would be able to bring my parents and siblings to immigrate. Also if i met all of the requirements to become a citizen I would not be denied which is the case in thailand for permanent residence. In thailand ALL of the people that apply are eligible and MOST people that apply do not get approved. All of the arguments about the difference in the visa policies that i have seen on Thai visa do not hold water. Face it. The majority of the people in the world want to immigrate to the USA and other developed countries. That is not the case for thailand.

Edited May 27, 2007 by wolfmanjack

[JR Texas]

The "we do not want foreigners that are not rich attitude" is a terrible move by Thailand and is only hurting the economy. Compare Thailand's attitude with New Zealand, Australia and America..........all of which work hard to attract tourists from foreign countries that are not rich. Why? Because the vast majority of tourists are not rich!

It is much easier for an average foreigner to be a tourist in Thailand than for a Thai to be a tourist in foreignland especially the 3 countries you singled out.

These 3 countries maybe dreaming of tourists but are certainly not making it easy for the potential candidates rich or poor

JR Texas to Krub: I can't address your specific point......I can tell you that the USA, Australia and New Zealand are actively wanting budget tourists (the vast army of tourists roaming the planet today and spending their money).

In my own country, we have a huge industry devoted to budget tourists (can you say "Motel 6."). Hundreds of thousands of people (maybe millions) are employed in this sector. We devote large segments of space to such tourists in our national parks (e.g., spaces where tourists can just put a tent down and sleep for the night).

People forget: The vast majority of people on this planet are poor. [As an aside, check out the research I posted at the bottom of this on the daily cost of feeding a dairy cow.....something that the Bangkok Post and Nation will no doubt refuse to print even in a letter to the editor]

Most can't even think about tourism. Of those that can, the vast majority are not rich, but do have money to spend. These are the people that Thailand is pushing away to its detriment.

Only about 1% or less of the people on the planet are rich. These are the people Thailand thinks will take the place of the budget travelers it is pushing out (it will not happen).

The basic fact of tourism, that most countries in the world clearly understand, is that most tourists are not rich. A related fact is that, even though they are not rich, they do spend money and that is good for the bottom line.

An economically viable and sound tourism policy would target BOTH the budget travelers AND the rich travelers. An economically destructive tourism policy would only target a minority of rich travelers and push out the much larger group of budget travelers.

But that is how I see it.................

DAILY COST OF FEEDING A DAIRY COW

In order to provide milk, butter and cheese for hungry Americans, dairy farmers in the USA spend an average of $4.13 per cow per day on feed (milking ration).

(data from 2006, http://www.das.psu.edu/user/dairy/newslett...cfm?newsID=842)

ABOUT THREE BILLION PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH (ROUGHLY 50 PERCENT OF HUMANITY) LIVE ON LESS THAN TWO DOLLARS PER DAY, LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT WE SPEND ON A COW!

IS THIS PROGRESS?

p.s., I wonder how many Thais earn less per day than it cost to feed a dairy cow in the USA? And be honest, minimum wage aside, most make about 120-220 baht per day (US$3.46 - 6.35 per day)

I agree with you 100% on the budget tourist vs the rich tourist argument. I am also from the USA and Motel 6 is not the only chain of hotels that caters to the budget traveler. I also agree that is where thailand (started by taksin) is shooting itself in the foot.

I asked the question on other threads about who was going to stay in the $350 per night Hotels that look like prisons on the outside that they are building here in Chiang Mai. The services and ass kissing that the rich desire do not exist here in Chiang Mai. It is better suited to the middle class and the budget tourist. Not the ultra rich.

I totally miss your point on the cost of feeding a dairy cow in the USA though. How does that relate to thailand ? They have dairy cows here and i am pretty sure that the cost of feeding them is much less here than in the USA just like the cost of feeding a human is less here.

JR Texas to Wolfmanjack: Hey WMJ..........Thanks for the agreement. My point about the "cow" was to show how extensive poverty is in Thailand......the implication being that govt. policy should center on improving economic conditions for the majority, not making things even more difficult for the majority by causing damage to the tourism industry.

JR Texas to Thaigoon and Krub: The official statistics are misleading: In 1990 27.2% of the population lived below the poverty line and in 2002 9.8% lived below the poverty line.......looks good but it means little as most people are still making slave wages and living "hand to mouth." Also, you are no doubt aware of major regional differences in the statistics on poverty.........in 2002, for example, 34% of the population was living below the poverty line in Narathiwat province.

Lets not get into a senseless battle over statistics.......just open your eyes and look around at the numbers of people who are hurting in Thailand, especially outside of the major mega-cities. You will not see the poverty (senseless poverty at this point in history) if you spend most of your life inside the Paragon in Bangkok.

But the question is: Are foreigners still welcome in Thailand? Let's focus on that.

[wolfmanjack]

The "we do not want foreigners that are not rich attitude" is a terrible move by Thailand and is only hurting the economy. Compare Thailand's attitude with New Zealand, Australia and America..........all of which work hard to attract tourists from foreign countries that are not rich. Why? Because the vast majority of tourists are not rich!

It is much easier for an average foreigner to be a tourist in Thailand than for a Thai to be a tourist in foreignland especially the 3 countries you singled out.

These 3 countries maybe dreaming of tourists but are certainly not making it easy for the potential candidates rich or poor

JR Texas to Krub: I can't address your specific point......I can tell you that the USA, Australia and New Zealand are actively wanting budget tourists (the vast army of tourists roaming the planet today and spending their money).

In my own country, we have a huge industry devoted to budget tourists (can you say "Motel 6."). Hundreds of thousands of people (maybe millions) are employed in this sector. We devote large segments of space to such tourists in our national parks (e.g., spaces where tourists can just put a tent down and sleep for the night).

People forget: The vast majority of people on this planet are poor. [As an aside, check out the research I posted at the bottom of this on the daily cost of feeding a dairy cow.....something that the Bangkok Post and Nation will no doubt refuse to print even in a letter to the editor]

Most can't even think about tourism. Of those that can, the vast majority are not rich, but do have money to spend. These are the people that Thailand is pushing away to its detriment.

Only about 1% or less of the people on the planet are rich. These are the people Thailand thinks will take the place of the budget travelers it is pushing out (it will not happen).

The basic fact of tourism, that most countries in the world clearly understand, is that most tourists are not rich. A related fact is that, even though they are not rich, they do spend money and that is good for the bottom line.

An economically viable and sound tourism policy would target BOTH the budget travelers AND the rich travelers. An economically destructive tourism policy would only target a minority of rich travelers and push out the much larger group of budget travelers.

But that is how I see it.................

DAILY COST OF FEEDING A DAIRY COW

In order to provide milk, butter and cheese for hungry Americans, dairy farmers in the USA spend an average of $4.13 per cow per day on feed (milking ration).

(data from 2006, http://www.das.psu.edu/user/dairy/newslett...cfm?newsID=842)

ABOUT THREE BILLION PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH (ROUGHLY 50 PERCENT OF HUMANITY) LIVE ON LESS THAN TWO DOLLARS PER DAY, LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT WE SPEND ON A COW!

IS THIS PROGRESS?

p.s., I wonder how many Thais earn less per day than it cost to feed a dairy cow in the USA? And be honest, minimum wage aside, most make about 120-220 baht per day (US$3.46 - 6.35 per day)

I agree with you 100% on the budget tourist vs the rich tourist argument. I am also from the USA and Motel 6 is not the only chain of hotels that caters to the budget traveler. I also agree that is where thailand (started by taksin) is shooting itself in the foot.

I asked the question on other threads about who was going to stay in the $350 per night Hotels that look like prisons on the outside that they are building here in Chiang Mai. The services and ass kissing that the rich desire do not exist here in Chiang Mai. It is better suited to the middle class and the budget tourist. Not the ultra rich.

I totally miss your point on the cost of feeding a dairy cow in the USA though. How does that relate to thailand ? They have dairy cows here and i am pretty sure that the cost of feeding them is much less here than in the USA just like the cost of feeding a human is less here.

JR Texas to Wolfmanjack: Hey WMJ..........Thanks for the agreement. My point about the "cow" was to show how extensive poverty is in Thailand......the implication being that govt. policy should center on improving economic conditions for the majority, not making things even more difficult for the majority by causing damage to the tourism industry.

But the question is: Are foreigners still welcome in Thailand? Let's focus on that.

No problem.

And my answer is that the gov only wants the rich and that most common thais do not really care one way or the other. I still feel welcome by the thais around me but not by the gov.

[ludosiam]

Fair and square, I believe it’s not very easy for a Thai passport holders to get a Visa for western countries. Sufficient funds and any reason to return are needed usually, then a Visa will be granted.

But the issue I actually wanted to bring up is the fact that many foreigner had been welcomed to invest, work, and educate here in Thailand. During this process many foreigners met their loved ones, decided to become a family, built houses, send their kids to school, living a life just as they would in their country of origin. Many call Thailand their home because they have spent more time here than elsewhere. With this constellation in a western country you would have a right to stay, not mentioning owning land, house and company. In contrary here in Thailand with family is becoming more and more difficult. What if for some reason a mixed couple doesn’t earn 40.000 THB a month, 10 fold the minimum wage of an ordinary worker? My point is that Visa regulations should not be based solely on money matters but also on ethics and morality. You can claim that foreigners “expect everything to be catered to our needs or handed to us” and Thais don’t and even might be right or not. No regulation will ever fit every individual and many of them aren’t exactly fair. But I wanted to bring this issue up to see what is the opinion of others and I greatly appreciate opinions by “country owners” as well. But keep in mind that most postings here actually point out that they feel welcome by the “country owners” but not by the government, isn’t that odd?

[Edonista]

I think it exactly means that, "planning to migrate away from Thailand." JRTexas, I'm hoping that your dream of getting out of Thailand will come true soon. I'm rooting for you to get out of my country asap! That's from me personally.

I wonder if all the Thai people that are currently receiving spending money from JR share your rooting.I also wonder if TAT is happy to see a Thai national rooting for farangs to "get out of my country asap" on an expat forum.

[LivinLOS]

I think it exactly means that, "planning to migrate away from Thailand." JRTexas, I'm hoping that your dream of getting out of Thailand will come true soon. I'm rooting for you to get out of my country asap! That's from me personally.

I wonder if all the Thai people that are currently receiving spending money from JR share your rooting.I also wonder if TAT is happy to see a Thai national rooting for farangs to "get out of my country asap" on an expat forum.

As the only comment from a Thai national in a thread asking if you feel welcome here.. Kinda telling no ??

[Edonista]

I think it exactly means that, "planning to migrate away from Thailand." JRTexas, I'm hoping that your dream of getting out of Thailand will come true soon. I'm rooting for you to get out of my country asap! That's from me personally.

Unless you're born Thai this is NOT your country and never will.

I'm Thai born and bred.

Indeed you are

[JR Texas]

Fair and square, I believe it’s not very easy for a Thai passport holders to get a Visa for western countries. Sufficient funds and any reason to return are needed usually, then a Visa will be granted.

But the issue I actually wanted to bring up is the fact that many foreigner had been welcomed to invest, work, and educate here in Thailand. During this process many foreigners met their loved ones, decided to become a family, built houses, send their kids to school, living a life just as they would in their country of origin. Many call Thailand their home because they have spent more time here than elsewhere. With this constellation in a western country you would have a right to stay, not mentioning owning land, house and company. In contrary here in Thailand with family is becoming more and more difficult. What if for some reason a mixed couple doesn’t earn 40.000 THB a month, 10 fold the minimum wage of an ordinary worker? My point is that Visa regulations should not be based solely on money matters but also on ethics and morality. You can claim that foreigners “expect everything to be catered to our needs or handed to us” and Thais don’t and even might be right or not. No regulation will ever fit every individual and many of them aren’t exactly fair. But I wanted to bring this issue up to see what is the opinion of others and I greatly appreciate opinions by “country owners” as well. But keep in mind that most postings here actually point out that they feel welcome by the “country owners” but not by the government, isn’t that odd?

JR Texas to Ludosiam: I totally agree with what you said above about expats. Many were drawn to Thailand by a welcome sign that was put up in the past........they made commitments, contributed to Thai society, did nothing wrong, and now are considered "vermin."

The visa rules should not be based on monthly income at all, especially when the govt. simulataneously makes it almost impossible to start even a small business. Showing a certain amount of money in ANY BANK ON THE PLANET might be acceptable.......but only if it is a reasonable amount.

In a very real sense, a set of myths is guiding visa policy (many originating with Toxin the Magnificent). Here are a few of them:

1) Rich people are good and poor people are bad (odd concept given what happened to Toxin the Maginificent and the fact that Thailand is a Buddhist country......guess it is time to kick those poor monks out)

2) The visa changes were designed to prevent crime (if anything, they will increase crime and attacking Thai-farang families is evidence enough that the changes have little to do with crime......couple that with removing the investment visa, etc.)

3) So-called "visa runners" were breaking the law (myth because the police were running the entire show and making lots of money off of it......giant buses were pulling up to the immigration points, unloading farangs with little identification tags on them, herding them through the system, etc., it was in the open)

4) All visa runners are poor and contribute little to the economy (on a personal note, I remember doing a visa run when I had 7 million baht in the bank.....not a lot of money, but poor?),

The reality check is happening now........the net negative outcome would be evident to all if not for the influx of tourists from Russia and China (actually, there has been a significant drop in tourism from China over the past few months). Another factor working in their favor is the large number of retirees fleeing bad situations in Europe. But, on balance, the situation does not look good.

My prediction is that the need to "save face" will likely make it impossible for those that are responsible for the visa fiasco to admit to making a mistake. Instead, they will do what they have been doing for the past seven years......they will continue to raise the visa bar......generating more problems for themselves, generating resentment and anger among many members of the expat community, and hurting the overall economy.

I wonder if it ever occurs to any of them that the visa rules can and should be changed to accomodate both the majority of tourists/expats that are not rich and the very small minority of tourists/expats that are rich?

[byeth]

Personally I felt mostly unwelcome from both the government and the people I met. I hope I met the wrong people though. I had serious problems in my relation (constant lying, money missing from wallet, flirting...), so this did not last long, I had major problems in business (prices, quality, despatch time, all other business terms always changing because my suppliers felt like it - and I did not find one supplier in Thailand that would do what they would promiss), someone tried to break into my house the second day I moved in, in the condo I had before the security people would enter the condos with the second keys and steal things (in Sukhumvit), taxi drivers cursing at me and being extremely agressive (always in Sukhumvit) because I would ask them for example to put the meter on, my company being named 'illegal' as if the government bodies did not kow about it nor did they consider the paperwork my Thai lawyers submitted, difficulties (if not totally impossible) to get out the rest of my money... In general I feel under threat in this country and that Thais see me as a moving wallet , which they must force open to get as much as they can, I will be glad to move on. I am sorry to say I had heard extremely good things about Thailand before coming here but my experiences were mostly negative. Again I hope I was just unlucky

[byeth]

And one more thing on the nature of the question of the poll, the last 2 categories I believe should be rather considered together: what if those who say have no choice would actually have a better option, would they leave? It seems yes, then it is just two subcategories of the same and should be added up because the main question is if we feel welcome.

[jdinasia]

byeth .... I thjink you missed the part about this thread being about visa regs

To sum up how I see the numbers running right now .... 30% unhappy or moving ... and 70% OK with things as they are though that is split 50/50 by people that say it is getting harder.

[borracho]

byeth .... I thjink you missed the part about this thread being about visa regs

To sum up how I see the numbers running right now .... 30% unhappy or moving ... and 70% OK with things as they are though that is split 50/50 by people that say it is getting harder.

The visa regulations have really only changed significantly for 30 days stampers and certain income requirements for b-visas/WPs.

Edited May 27, 2007 by borracho

[colino]

I think the goverment would be happy if our wallets came here and we stayed away

[ludosiam]

The main visa change (not sure it's a change, but hadn't been enforced before) is that companies that would like to employ a foreigner must have at least 1.000.000 Baht in equity and at least the sum of a 1 year salary for that person in cash sitting on the bank. Together with the 2.000.000 Baht minimun registered capital per foreigner this is resulting in much higher tax payments for these companies, creating an unfair advantage for companies where no foreigner are registered and discourage companies to do so.

[ludosiam]

To Byeth: I really believe that you were either living with the wrong people from the beginning or were most unfortunate. I personally stay with my Thai wife for almost 10 years, never been cheated by her (as far as I know of course), nobody ever broke into my house although it would be very easy to do so. Company related trouble is normal, finding good suppliers difficult and signing a contract just the start of re - negotiations. I have Thai people handle Thai suppliers for me but let them know that as a foreigner with foreign customers things are a little different, works ok for me.

[wolfmanjack]

The main visa change (not sure it's a change, but hadn't been enforced before) is that companies that would like to employ a foreigner must have at least 1.000.000 Baht in equity and at least the sum of a 1 year salary for that person in cash sitting on the bank. Together with the 2.000.000 Baht minimun registered capital per foreigner this is resulting in much higher tax payments for these companies, creating an unfair advantage for companies where no foreigner are registered and discourage companies to do so.

This was brought up on Thai Visa about a year ago but was not enforced when I renewed my b visa. Another poster on another thread mentioned new rules that were going to be enforced as of May this year. Is this what he was talking about ?

The visa regulations have really only changed significantly for 30 days stampers and certain income requirements for b-visas/WPs.

This does not take into account all of the most recent changes. The "O" visa used to be a support of a thai national (a child or wife) and you could get a visa with only 200,000 in a thai bank. then they changed it to 40,000 in a thai bank. Now they changed it to 40,000 monthly income and does not apply to children. To get a visa on the bases of having a child now the only way is to be over 50 years old.

What I worry about is the trend that both the "b" visa and "o" visa changes are showing. Many changes do not make sense.