3.5 Million Baht for a condo

[JonnyF]

On 6/27/2021 at 8:12 PM, NancyL said:

Rent.  Get in a building you like and then you'll find there are units that are never advertised they just pass from one renter to the next by word of mouth.  The good owners get to know the good tenants.  Be nice to the building staff and fellow residents.  Pay your rent on time.  

 

With the right owner, you'll find one who will let you sign a long-term (3 - 5 year) bargain lease in exchange for you being able to make changes to the unit to make it your own.  We've been in the same building for over a decade.  Always renting. 

 

Now paying a bargain rent in a unit we totally gutted out and remodeled.  The owner is a bank manager who has never seen the unit, but she, her husband, my husband and I had enough mutual contacts to trust each other that the arrangement was agreeable.  This didn't happen when we were straight off the boat, however.  It took years of renting several units before we got to this point, but at our age I'd rather walk away from a couple million baht in remodeling and furniture than 4.5 million in a condo that would take forever to sell.  And it's easier for our heirs to get rid of appliances and furniture than a condo.

 

So given what you've said, you've been renting for over a decade (let's say 12 years) and spent a couple million on furniture and renovating.

 

Assuming as little as 10,000 rent (probably more) a month you've spent 3,440,000 (1,440,000 rent plus 2 million) Baht that you will never see again, apart from maybe whatever you could sell a bit of second hand furniture for.

 

Which coincidentally is what the OP is looking to spend. So he could buy that condo, live in it for 10 years and then sell it off cheap (for half the price) and still be 1.7 million Baht up. During that period he is safe in the knowledge that he has his own home to live in, his landlord won't raise the rent or decide he wants to move in himself etc.

 

I'd be buying if I was him and I planned to stay 10-15 years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill97]

11 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

what exactly is the attraction of CM ?

Very few beach loving dodos around.

[canthai55]

13 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

what exactly is the attraction of CM ?

Because those from Phuket don't come here - hopefully

[cheynewalk]

JohnnyF, your calculations may be out a little. 3.5 million baht invested in any half decent index fund would yield 5% p.a., thats 175k per year, nearly 15k a month. Renting for 10k you would still have your 3.5 mill and another 7.5k for expenses ..... well in front

[BritManToo]

14 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I'd be buying if I was him and I planned to stay 10-15 years.

At age 63 ........ 10-15 years is quite some bet.

I'm age 65, and another 5 years is probably more realistic.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

usual muppet suspects with their pseudo “ clever” insult replies to serious questions.... CM mini - bangkok being the perfect expat retirement location with sooooo many advantages over Phuket......

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, cheynewalk said:

JohnnyF, your calculations may be out a little. 3.5 million baht invested in any half decent index fund would yield 5% p.a., thats 175k per year, nearly 15k a month. Renting for 10k you would still have your 3.5 mill and another 7.5k for expenses ..... well in front

But you wouldn't have that 3.5 million to invest for the duration would you? Presumably you've spent that 2 million on renovations at the start of the 12 year period, not in the final year just before you move out. So you're already down to 7xxx Baht per month interest. You're not going to rent much for that. Certainly not something as nice as the OP would get for 3.5 million.

 

Plus when I said he can sell for half the price, that's a little pessimistic on my behalf. In all likelihood he would get a lot more than that if he bought the right property and could afford to wait a few months to sell. In most cases the property would retain at least 90% of it's value, maybe even increase in value if he was lucky. And remember, Index funds can also go down. I wouldn't want my ability to pay rent every month to be determined by the success or failure of an index fund.

 

I understand renting things short term, maybe even a car if you're staying for 12 months. But long term renting of property just pays off someone else's mortgage while you are left with nothing. Not to mention landlords keeping deposits, raising the rent, inspecting your home every xx months (sometimes without your permission), deciding they want the property back and forcing you to move etc. Not a nice way to live in my opinion.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Best ever time to rent or buy NEW Property

Many Distress Sales / Rentals of Quality Residentail Properties.

Buy Foreigner Freehold High End Developer Distress Sale NEW Condo

with Impeccable Management Record & Clean Chanote (Best Value).

or Rent High End Budget NEW House from Distressed Developer

Avoid Private Sale / Agents. Too many potential hidden pitfalls.

[canthai55]

1 hour ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Best ever time to rent or buy NEW Property

Many Distress Sales / Rentals of Quality Residentail Properties.

Buy Foreigner Freehold High End Developer Distress Sale NEW Condo

with Impeccable Management Record & Clean Chanote (Best Value).

or Rent High End Budget NEW House from Distressed Developer

Avoid Private Sale / Agents. Too many potential hidden pitfalls.

Will they rent or sell to people of color ?

[NancyL]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

But you wouldn't have that 3.5 million to invest for the duration would you? Presumably you've spent that 2 million on renovations at the start of the 12 year period, not in the final year just before you move out. So you're already down to 7xxx Baht per month interest. You're not going to rent much for that. Certainly not something as nice as the OP would get for 3.5 million.

 

Plus when I said he can sell for half the price, that's a little pessimistic on my behalf. In all likelihood he would get a lot more than that if he bought the right property and could afford to wait a few months to sell. In most cases the property would retain at least 90% of it's value, maybe even increase in value if he was lucky. And remember, Index funds can also go down. I wouldn't want my ability to pay rent every month to be determined by the success or failure of an index fund.

 

I understand renting things short term, maybe even a car if you're staying for 12 months. But long term renting of property just pays off someone else's mortgage while you are left with nothing. Not to mention landlords keeping deposits, raising the rent, inspecting your home every xx months (sometimes without your permission), deciding they want the property back and forcing you to move etc. Not a nice way to live in my opinion.

Oh my goodness, I don't worry about our "investments" being about to support our measly rent every month nor our landlord deciding to keep the deposit, raise the rent or make an inspection.  As I said, we checked out her and her husband as thoroughly as they did us.  We have many mutual acquaintances.  As I wrote earlier, you don't go into these arrangements straight off the boat.

 

 

[Bill97]

3 hours ago, NancyL said:

Oh my goodness, I don't worry about our "investments" being about to support our measly rent every month nor our landlord deciding to keep the deposit, raise the rent or make an inspection.  As I said, we checked out her and her husband as thoroughly as they did us.  We have many mutual acquaintances.  As I wrote earlier, you don't go into these arrangements straight off the boat.

 

 

Why didn’t you move to Malaysia?

[grin]

12 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

  Not everyone particularly likes beaches and the sea .

Two weeks by the sea per year is enough for me 

Beaches are fine by me as long as I can find some shade and get some reading done.

[JonnyF]

9 hours ago, NancyL said:

Oh my goodness, I don't worry about our "investments" being about to support our measly rent every month nor our landlord deciding to keep the deposit, raise the rent or make an inspection.  As I said, we checked out her and her husband as thoroughly as they did us.  We have many mutual acquaintances.  As I wrote earlier, you don't go into these arrangements straight off the boat.

 

 

But your personal finances and circumstances are not relevant to the financial reality of both options to the OP. Maybe he IS straight off the boat and doesn’t want to spend 5 years building up contacts until he finds a good landlord through a mutual friend?
 

The fact is that it makes financial sense for him to buy, for the reasons I have outlined. 
 

I rented for the first 10 years I was here. The money I wasted paying off the landlords mortgage would have paid for over half of the condo I eventually bought. It was dead money, zero return. Just because I could afford to waste it doesn’t mean it made financial sense to do so and I regret that decision. It sounds like you have also wasted a lot and are now encouraging others to do the same.

Edited June 30, 2021 by JonnyF

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I rented for the first 10 years I was here. The money I wasted paying off the landlords mortgage would have paid for over half of the condo I eventually bought. It was dead money, zero return. Just because I could afford to waste it doesn’t mean it made financial sense to do so and I regret that decision. It sounds like you have also wasted a lot and are now encouraging others to do the same.

I regret not buying 10,000 pounds of microsoft shares in 1995 ...........

Buying in Thailand today makes no financial sense at all, the currency is too high, the properties are too expensive, a foreigners ability to stay here in the future is too questionable, the government is too unstable.

Edited June 30, 2021 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

14 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Best ever time to rent or buy NEW Property

Many Distress Sales / Rentals of Quality Residentail Properties.

Buy Foreigner Freehold High End Developer Distress Sale NEW Condo

with Impeccable Management Record & Clean Chanote (Best Value).

or Rent High End Budget NEW House from Distressed Developer

Avoid Private Sale / Agents. Too many potential hidden pitfalls.

I've not seen any discounts on sales at all .........

The developer my wife purchased from in 2012 (1.8Mbht) wants nearly double for the same house in 2021 (2.8Mbht).

[JonnyF]

57 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I regret not buying 10,000 pounds of microsoft shares in 1995 ...........

Buying in Thailand today makes no financial sense at all, the currency is too high, the properties are too expensive, a foreigners ability to stay here in the future is too questionable, the government is too unstable.

Not sure the relevance of MS shares??

 

Back on topic, there are pluses and minuses to everything. I'd agree the currency is too high, and I'm glad I imported the money for my condo when it was 55 to the pound, but the high currency also affects the amount of rent you pay every month (in your home currency) if you are living on money brought over from overseas. Plus rent goes up, whereas the purchase price remains or actually decreases in relative terms when you consider inflation. 

 

In terms of purchasing price, the properties are very reasonable now. I've seen a few on Bahtsold I've been tempted by, nice places by the beach in Rayong priced low before you even negotiate. Lots of people leaving Thailand now and looking to offload quick and cheap. Would make a nice retreat during any future lockdowns.

 

Given the tourism collapse and economic mess, I highly doubt that visas are going to be clamped down on. They'll need every foreign visitor they can get. Unstable government doesn't impact us too much as long as the visa is still available. Unstable government is a given if you want to live in SE Asia. 

 

Some people would rather waste 20,000 a month for 10 years than spend 3 million on a condo. By renting you will definitely lose 2,800,000 Baht. Buying, you might lose a million if you're unlucky, or you might make half a million if you're lucky. Using this 'rent everything' logic I have no idea why they would buy a car, a motorbike or anything for that matter. I'm not sure if it's a fear of commitment or whatever but it simply doesn't make financial sense over the longer term. Same as my house in the UK. I've received more in rent in the 16 years I've lived here than I paid to buy it in 2003. I know which side of the landlord/tenant equation I would rather be on.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Not sure the relevance of MS shares??

The relevance is making fantasy profits from hindsight.

What was worthwhile 10 years 20 years back may not be worthwhile today.

Especially in a country where larger assets are easily taken from foreigners, and you have no guarantee of residence.

 

As for rent going up.

The room I rented (Emporium Residence Chiang Mai) in 2010 cost 6kbht/month.

Today that same room is available for 6kbht/month.

I don't know where you live in Thailand where rents increase ........ but not in Chiang Mai.

 

The house I live in.

In my village was commonly rented for 10kbht/month.

Today you'd be lucky to get 7k/month, 20% of the houses are empty.

And it's a really nice, quiet place to live.

 

As for wasting 10 years rent.

What if you die next year ......... 120,000bht (10,000/month) Vs 3,500,000 up front wasn't a good deal.

OP is 63 ......... death is coming in the not to distant future.

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by BritManToo

[Surelynot]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Some people would rather waste 20,000 a month for 10 years than spend 3 million on a condo. By renting you will definitely lose 2,800,000 Baht.

No way a 3 million baht condo will rent for 20,000 pm.......My condo in the heart of BKK is 6.5 million to buy and rents at 17,000 pm.

 

6.5 million invested will bring easily bring in 350,000 a year (over the long term nearer 600,000) and rent will only cost 200,000 a year.

 

Renting brings no other costs like maintenance, management charges etc, and any hassle you have juristic to sort people out and you can up sticks after 12 months.

 

Buy in your own (stable) country yes and rent that out (which is what I do).....buy here...never.

 

 

[JonnyF]

23 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

No way a 3 million baht condo will rent for 20,000 pm.......My condo in the heart of BKK is 6.5 million to buy and rents at 17,000 pm.

 

6.5 million invested will bring easily bring in 350,000 a year (over the long term nearer 600,000) and rent will only cost 200,000 a year.

 

Renting brings no other costs like maintenance, management charges etc, and any hassle you have juristic to sort people out and you can up sticks after 12 months.

 

Buy in your own (stable) country yes and rent that out (which is what I do).....buy here...never.

 

 

 

6.5 million at 17k? Really? ????  

 

First condo I randomly I looked at on Bahtsold was 20,000 for 3,9 million.

 

 

I bought in both countries and rent out the one in the UK. The money from that isn't required to rent here, hence it goes into an investment fund. But I plan to stay here long term (16 already and maybe another 20 years +) If I rent for 20 years at say, 20,000 that's 4,800,000 Baht down the pan. I've basically paid for someone else's condo. With my condo, it will probably be worth more than I paid in 20 years if only for inflation. If I need the cash I can sell it. 

 

The other benefit is having some assets in Thailand allows you to hedge a bit on currency. It's funny how all the people who are terrified of having assets in Thailand were the same ones moaning about the weak pound the last 5 years. Eggs? Baskets? Not paying rent here also allowed me to send that extra portion of salary back every month which was nice at sub 40 to the pound.

 

What applies in the UK (buying better than renting) also applies here. Unless you think the government is going to seize all foreign assets (no evidence for this at all) or you're about to drop dead and worry about getting assets back to family overseas then the same basic rules apply. 

 

The only thing I rent is a farm near Korat. If I could own land, I'd buy that as well.  

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Best ever time to rent or buy NEW Property

Many Distress Sales / Rentals of Quality Residentail Properties.

Buy Foreigner Freehold High End Developer Distress Sale NEW Condo

with Impeccable Management Record & Clean Chanote (Best Value).

or Rent High End Budget NEW House from Distressed Developer

Avoid Private Sale / Agents. Too many potential hidden pitfalls.

[JonnyF]

58 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The relevance is making fantasy profits from hindsight.

What was worthwhile 10 years 20 years back may not be worthwhile today.

Especially in a country where larger assets are easily taken from foreigners, and you have no guarantee of residence.

 

As for rent going up.

The room I rented (Emporium Residence Chiang Mai) in 2010 cost 6kbht/month.

Today that same room is available for 6kbht/month.

I don't know where you live in Thailand where rents increase ........ but not in Chiang Mai.

 

The house I live in.

In my village was commonly rented for 10kbht/month.

Today you'd be lucky to get 7k/month, 20% of the houses are empty.

And it's a really nice, quiet place to live.

 

As for wasting 10 years rent.

What if you die next year ......... 120,000bht (10,000/month) Vs 3,500,000 up front wasn't a good deal.

OP is 63 ......... death is coming in the not to distant future.

 

 

There was no fantasy involved. The money I spent on rent was wasted. Down the drain. Claiming investments you didn't make equate to the same thing is fantasy.

 

As for rent increasing, you know how things work in Thailand. Nothing for 10 years and then a 30% jump overnight. Granted, Covid will probably prevent that on rent, but I prefer the stability of knowing my rent will be zero for as long as I live here.

 

I don't make investments based on maybe dying next year. I was 42 when I bought the condo and have no plans to leave Thailand. 

 

Do you never think about hedging by having some assets in Thailand in case the pound crashes? You know, like it did the last 5 years... That money you saved not buying a house lost 30% in value.

[Bill97]

38 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Do you never think about hedging by having some assets in Thailand in case the pound crashes?

Better places than Thailand for that.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

That money you saved not buying a house lost 30% in value.

From 50 to 44 = 12%

But then deferring my pension 4 years, increased my income by 40%

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

Better places than Thailand for that.

 

Yeah, the Thai Baht has really been struggling the last few years ????.

[NancyL]

The only time we paid 20,000 baht/month for a 3.5 million baht condo was the first year off the boat.  After that with every move our rent has decreased and the quality increased, especially when we've reached agreements where we make modifications to our taste in exchange for a long lease. 

 

We've enjoyed the freedom to move, as in when we realized we were going to lose our view of Doi Suthep because of construction of a neighboring condo, we started to get the word out that we wanted a different unit higher up in the building where our view wouldn't be blocked.  We would have been SOL if we owned that previous unit.  We had time and eventually the right unit opened up.  Unadvertised, of course.

 

We've never had owner inspections or deposits withheld unreasonably.  Admittedly our cats have done some damages and I've been surprised that more money wasn't withheld for the damages the little dears caused, but we were honest with owners that we didn't expect a full refund and pointed out the cabinets they'd scratched and window screens they'd ruined.

[Trac]

Just checked with fazwaz. Nearly nothing available with foreigner quota.

[deej]

23 minutes ago, NancyL said:

The only time we paid 20,000 baht/month for a 3.5 million baht condo was the first year off the boat.  After that with every move our rent has decreased and the quality increased, especially when we've reached agreements where we make modifications to our taste in exchange for a long lease. 

 

We've enjoyed the freedom to move, as in when we realized we were going to lose our view of Doi Suthep because of construction of a neighboring condo, we started to get the word out that we wanted a different unit higher up in the building where our view wouldn't be blocked.  We would have been SOL if we owned that previous unit.  We had time and eventually the right unit opened up.  Unadvertised, of course.

 

We've never had owner inspections or deposits withheld unreasonably.  Admittedly our cats have done some damages and I've been surprised that more money wasn't withheld for the damages the little dears caused, but we were honest with owners that we didn't expect a full refund and pointed out the cabinets they'd scratched and window screens they'd ruined.

 

[JonnyF]

I guess it depends on circumstances. It seems most people on this thread are able to rent 10 million Baht condos for 5000 Baht a month, love the joys of moving condo all the time, believe that condos can never be sold in Thailand, have angels for landlords and/or are under the impression they will be dead imminently. Not to mention that the government will seize all foreign assets or visas for farangs will be revoked. Simultaneously they are making an absolute killing on the stock market with all that spare cash they saved ????.

 

I suspect the truth is that many simply don't have the cash to invest. Anyway, it's the first of the month so get those wads of cash ready to pay off your landlord's mortgage. He'll be along in his Benz shortly. Kerching... ????

[riclag]

Rent !  The first time I set foot in this country, I came without booking a hotel. I decided to find a hotel for 2 nights that way I could look around in the area for a better choice to live for a long extended period! 

 

When you rent you have a temporary commitment while you perform due diligence in finding what you consider a all around good deal financially and emotionally !

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, riclag said:

Rent !  The first time I set foot in this country, I came without booking a hotel. I decided to find a hotel for 2 nights that way I could look around in the area for a better choice to live for a long extended period! 

 

When you rent you have a temporary commitment while you perform due diligence in finding what you consider a all around good deal financially and emotionally !

We rented for a month before signing for 12......best way to do it if you can.