Thai study finds 2 doses of Sinovac can’t beat Delta variant, AstraZeneca can

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, misterjames said:

I'm all for studies but I can't help wondering how an island full of tourists that have taken double doses (of various different western vaccines) that have been triple tested (and proved negative or quarantined on arrival) on a sealed off island will tell us anything about the efficacy of Sinovac?

 

Maybe I'm missing something but doesn't make any sense to me? Maybe someone can enlighten me?

 

I'll try again. The study has nothing to do with tourists. It's about the locals of whom there are at least 400,000. The majority of them are vaccinated with Sinovac. The Delta variant is now rampant in Thailand. It exists on the island of Phuket. So it should be revealing to see how said variant affects the local population vs. the thai population. It should certainly be possible to assess how Phuket fares to foreign locales which have extensively documented the performance of AZ vaccine against the Delta variant.

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, zzzzz said:

good news for thailand which is using the AZ
bad news for Cambodia which is using sinovac

Actually Cambodia is using whatever it can get, which has included AZ but in smaller quantities so they used it mainly for the elderly.

 

 

[gearbox]

4 minutes ago, misterjames said:

I'm all for studies but I can't help wondering how an island full of tourists that have taken double doses (of various different western vaccines) that have been triple tested (and proved negative or quarantined on arrival) on a sealed off island will tell us anything about the efficacy of Sinovac?

 

Maybe I'm missing something but doesn't make any sense to me? Maybe someone can enlighten me?

 

The delta will arrive internally, same way as the virus spreaders arrived via the Thai land borders.

Also currently they allow people with only 1 AZ shot to enter, and there are reports that 1 AZ shot is useless against the delta variant.

 

[misterjames]

3 minutes ago, gearbox said:

The delta will arrive internally

 

How if they are being quarantined on arrival if they test positive? sorry but you guys make no sense at all.

 

Unless you are telling me the Thai government are literally going to import delta from the mainland into Phuket on purpose to test Sinovac ?

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by misterjames

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, misterjames said:

 an island full of tourists that have taken double doses (of various different western vaccines) that have been triple tested (and proved negative or quarantined on arrival) on a sealed off island

 

If you are referring to Phuket, the incoming tourist have not all had a "western" vaccine. Tourists are allowed in with Sinopharm or Sinovac vaccination and the rules currently make no distinction between these and those who got Pfizer etc.  The recent case of a Phuket tourist who tested positive on 2nd test was  someone from UAE who had received Sinopharm.

[placeholder]

Just now, gearbox said:

The delta will arrive internally, same way as the virus spreaders arrived via the Thai land borders.

Also currently they allow people with only 1 AZ shot to enter, and there are reports that 1 AZ shot is useless against the delta variant.

 

I'm also assuming if Thais with 1 shot of AZ vaccine (what about Coronavac?) then they will be allowing Phuket residents to leave the island. Anyway, it's impossible to isolate the place given that it needs to be supplied with just about everything from elsewhere. And that means trucks and drivers.

[misterjames]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

If you are referring to Phuket, the incoming tourist have not all had a "western" vaccine. Tourists are allowed in with Sinopharm or Sinovac vaccination and the rules currently make no distinction between these and those who got Pfizer etc.  The recent case of a Phuket tourist who tested positive on 2nd test was  someone from UAE who had received Sinopharm.

Wasn't he immediately quarantined along with everyone else on that flight?

[gearbox]

6 minutes ago, misterjames said:

How if they are being quarantined on arrival if they test positive? sorry but you guys make no sense at all.

Who? The Thais? Thais and expats coming from within the country are not tested if they show a vaccine certificate with either 2 X Sinovac or 1 X AZ.  If not vaccinated only PCR test is needed, no quarantine required.

Edited July 9, 2021 by gearbox

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2 minutes ago, misterjames said:

Wasn't he immediately quarantined along with everyone else on that flight?

Because he was infected. Not because he was vaccinated with Sinopharm. Presumably other tourists have arrived there who also have been vaccinated with Sinovac and Sinopharm and not been quarantined.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I'll try again. The study has nothing to do with tourists. It's about the locals of whom there are at least 400,000. The majority of them are vaccinated with Sinovac. The Delta variant is now rampant in Thailand. It exists on the island of Phuket. So it should be revealing to see how said variant affects the local population vs. the thai population. It should certainly be possible to assess how Phuket fares to foreign locales which have extensively documented the performance of AZ vaccine against the Delta variant.

Surely this is all hypothetical as there is no study currently and until data is released on the percentage of each vaccine brand used, the ages it was administered to, their occupations etc we cannot speculate.

 

So while its something to look forward to thats about all we can do is look forward to it.

[placeholder]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Surely this is all hypothetical as there is no study currently and until data is released on the percentage of each vaccine brand used, the ages it was administered to, their occupations etc we cannot speculate.

 

So while its something to look forward to thats about all we can do is look forward to it.

Well, we can get some idea by comparing mortality on the island to elsewhere if the differences are dramatic enough.

[Sheryl]

5 minutes ago, misterjames said:

Wasn't he immediately quarantined along with everyone else on that flight?

He was, of course (hospityalized or put into a "hospitel", I don't know which). 

 

I don't think they automatically quarantined everyon on his flight. It was not detected on arrival testing but at the second test. By which time everyone else on same flight would also be having their second test. And apparently none of them tested positive.

 

It would obviously be better for the "Sandbox"  to only let in people who have had AZ, J&J, Moderna or Pfizer -- but hard for the government to do this when they continue to use Sinovac with Thais.

 

 

[misterjames]

2 minutes ago, gearbox said:

 If not vaccinated only PCR test is needed, no quarantine required.

So that suggests that any Thai / foreigner entering Phuket from the mainland will only get on the island if they are covid negative right? and the foreigners on flights will either be negative or quarantined.

 

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because he was infected. 

Yeh I got that part.

[misterjames]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I don't think they automatically quarantined everyon on his flight. It was not detected on arrival testing but at the second test. By which time everyone else on same flight would also be having their second test. And apparently none of them tested positive.

Richard Barrow has reported that everyone that was on the flight was quarantined and not only that but they are being forced to pay for quarantine.

Edited July 9, 2021 by misterjames

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placeholder said:

Well, we can get some idea by comparing mortality on the island to elsewhere if the differences are dramatic enough.

If the mortality on Phuket increases due to covid then it would be the unvaccinated people anyway, highly unlikely to see any vaccinated deaths unless the mortality is huge. Phuket also does not release very good details about deaths, nationality, let alone what vaccine they would have had or not as the case may be.

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, misterjames said:

This is what I have been saying for a long time but the pro Sinovac posters on here, just continually avoid the Delta part and post endless links to so called "legit" Alpha variant "studies".

 

 

You’ve conveniently missed out a detail - vaccine availably.

 

Many of whom you accuse of being Pro-Sinovac are not in fact pro-Sinovac, they are simply ‘anti-nothing’.

In the absence of any other vaccine, Sinovac is better than nothing. 
When / if Astra Zeneca or an mRNA vaccine becomes available take that, even if its soon (i.e. 3 weeks after taken the Sinovac vaccine). 
 

I’m not pro Astra-Zeneca, I much preferred to get an mRNA vaccine but AZ was all I could get. Four weeks later I was in a position to get a Pfizer vaccine and did so. 

It’s been proven that it’s ok to mix the vaccines. So get what you can and ‘top up’ your immune system with something better when the opportunity arises. 

 

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

If the mortality on Phuket increases due to covid then it would be the unvaccinated people anyway, highly unlikely to see any vaccinated deaths unless the mortality is huge. Phuket also does not release very good details about deaths, nationality, let alone what vaccine they would have had or not as the case may be.

We don't really know how Sinovac is going to perform against the Delta virus. I don't think any clinical or large scale studies have been published. While statistics for the real number of cases is clearly unreliable, it's a lot harder to fudge critical care bed occupancy rates and mortality.

[gearbox]

5 minutes ago, misterjames said:

So that suggests that any Thai / foreigner entering Phuket from the mainland will only get on the island if they are covid negative right? and the foreigners on flights will either be negative or quarantined.

 

Yeh I got that part.

Here are the rules:

 

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/tourism/latest-info-for-arriving-in-phuket-from-july-1

 

It is much easier for potentially infected people to enter from within Thailand. That's only for people who supposedly will obey the rules, as one can charter a long boat from Krabi and enter Phuket without any testing.

[Sheryl]

5 minutes ago, misterjames said:

Richard Barrow has reported that everyone that was on the flight was quarantined and not only that but they are being forced to pay for quarantine.

Ouch!

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placeholder said:

We don't really know how Sinovac is going to perform against the Delta virus. I don't think any clinical or large scale studies have been published. While statistics for the real number of cases is clearly unreliable, it's a lot harder to fudge critical care bed occupancy rates and mortality.

Thats got nothing to do with what I said though?

[misterjames]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

You’ve conveniently missed out a detail - vaccine availably

They should have signed up for COVAX that's the point and why the Thai's are so angry.

 

Glad to hear you got your Pfizer jab, lets hope the Thai people can get a jab they want also.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

You’ve conveniently missed out a detail - vaccine availably.

 

Many of whom you accuse of being Pro-Sinovac are not in fact pro-Sinovac, they are simply ‘anti-nothing’.

In the absence of any other vaccine, Sinovac is better than nothing. 
When / if Astra Zeneca or an mRNA vaccine becomes available take that, even if its soon (i.e. 3 weeks after taken the Sinovac vaccine). 
 

I’m not pro Astra-Zeneca, I much preferred to get an mRNA vaccine but AZ was all I could get. Four weeks later I was in a position to get a Pfizer vaccine and did so. 

It’s been proven that it’s ok to mix the vaccines. So get what you can and ‘top up’ your immune system with something better when the opportunity arises. 

 

I've said this repeatedly but you said it better, I would be delighted to have access to the mRNA vaccines. And just slightly less so if I get vaccinated with the AZ vaccine. But if Sinovac is all that's on offer, I'll take it.

I'm curious about the mixed vaccines in relation to travel permissions. Will other countries recognize you as being fully vaccinated?

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Thats got nothing to do with what I said though?

You wrote this:" highly unlikely to see any vaccinated deaths unless the mortality is huge."

I hope you're right but it seems unlikely since there have even been recent deaths for people fully vaccinated with the mRNA vaccines. And more for those vaccinated with the AZ vaccine. Not a lot but still some. 

I would expect there to be at least somewhat more for those vaccinated with Coronavac.

Edited July 9, 2021 by placeholder

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You wrote this:" highly unlikely to see any vaccinated deaths unless the mortality is huge."

I hope you're right but it seems unlikely since there have even been recent deaths for people fully vaccinated with the mRNA vaccines. And more for those vaccinated with the AZ vaccine. Not a lot but still some. 

And again:

 

If the mortality on Phuket increases due to covid then it would be the unvaccinated people anyway, highly unlikely to see any vaccinated deaths unless the mortality is huge. Phuket also does not release very good details about deaths, nationality, let alone what vaccine they would have had or not as the case may be.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[gearbox]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

I've said this repeatedly but you said it better, I would be delighted to have access to the mRNA vaccines. And just slightly less so if I get vaccinated with the AZ vaccine. But if Sinovac is all that's on offer, I'll take it.

I'm curious about the mixed vaccines in relation to travel permissions. Will other countries recognize you as being fully vaccinated?

Depends on the country. Not allowed for the Phuket Sandbox. It is mostly allowed in Europe depending on the vaccines mixed,  as some people had already one AZ shot when AZ got dumped, so AZ + Pfizer is not uncommon and certificates are issued for this combination.

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

I've said this repeatedly but you said it better, I would be delighted to have access to the mRNA vaccines. And just slightly less so if I get vaccinated with the AZ vaccine. But if Sinovac is all that's on offer, I'll take it.

I'm curious about the mixed vaccines in relation to travel permissions. Will other countries recognize you as being fully vaccinated?

I got AZ in Thailand then came to the US.  Pharmacies not only were not going to record me as fully vaccinated after a dose of an mRNA, they weren't willing ti give it at all knowing I'd had AZ. I could probably have sorted this out with a lot of time and effort and going to hospitals rather than pharmacies (the pharmacies operate in a pretty "cookbook" manner ad their instructions don't cover this situation) but I opted to just say it was my first dose, keep silent about the prior AZ, get the Pfizer and will go ahead and get a second Pfizer in order to have the CDC certificate. But will stretch out the interval for the 2nd to the max allowable (42 days) since really it will be in effect a booster.

 

 

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, misterjames said:

Richard Barrow has reported that everyone that was on the flight was quarantined and not only that but they are being forced to pay for quarantine.

 I read that they will be refunded the money that they had paid for their intended vacation accommodations.

[placeholder]

Just now, Sheryl said:

I got AZ in Thailand then came to the US.  Pharmacies not only were not going to record me as fully vaccinated after a dose of an mRNA, they weren't willing ti give it at all knowing I'd had AZ. I could probably have sorted this out with a lot of time and effort and going to hospitals rather than pharmacies (the pharmacies operate in a pretty "cookbook" manner ad their instructions don't cover this situation) but I opted to just say it was my first dose, keep silent about the prior AZ, get the Pfizer and will go ahead and get a second Pfizer in order to have the CDC certificate. But will stretch out the interval for the 2nd to the max allowable (42 days) since really it will be in effect a booster.

 

 

That's what I was thinking I would do if I had the good fortune to find myself in your position.

[Sheryl]

bickering posts have been removed

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

And again:

 

If the mortality on Phuket increases due to covid then it would be the unvaccinated people anyway, highly unlikely to see any vaccinated deaths unless the mortality is huge. Phuket also does not release very good details about deaths, nationality, let alone what vaccine they would have had or not as the case may be.

Why do you have such faith in the vaccines? There's plenty of evidence that some people die after being vaccinated. And at least 280,000 people, probably more, will have been vaccinated. It's funny. I often get accused of being pro-sinovac yet apparently it's you and MisterJames who apparently believe that most likely it will prove 100% effective against mortality caused by the Covid19 virus. Why?