Hundreds of Thai medical workers infected despite Sinovac vaccinations

[Tony125]

 

Malaysia to stop using Sinovac vaccine after supply ends - minister

 

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/1-malaysia-stop-using-sinovac-114941202.html

[gearbox]

On 7/12/2021 at 8:21 AM, rabas said:

From the given data, Sinovac could be from 0.00% to 99.88% effective. There is no control group. The question is how many would have been infected if none had the vaccine.  Obviously not 600000.

 

According to WHO, there are roughly 46,800,000 health care workers worldwide. Of them, 152888 were infected in the first 5 months of the pandemic treating 5,000,000 cases. Or 0.3 %. They had no vaccine.

 

0.3% of 600000 is 1960 so Thailand should have had about 2000 cases without vaccine? So effectiveness is about   (2000-800)/2000 = 60% effective.

 

Actually, according to WHO below, Thailands' actual attending nurses and doctors should be about 200,000 not 600,000. I think the 600,000 includes things like dentists and pharmacists, X-ray techs, etc.

 

So effectiveness could be very low as expected for the Delta variant. Obviously, Sinovac is not 99.9% effective against Delta.

 

references:

https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/themes/topics/health-workforce

https://gh.bmj.com/content/5/12/e003097

It is true that there is no control group, so the effectiveness in regards to virus transmission can't be easily determined, but the percentage of the breakthrough cases requiring hospitalization and dying can be calculated easily and can't be fudged with arbitrary numbers.

 

From the Thai numbers provided, there were 618 breakthrough cases, and 2 people died, this is around 0.3% of the cases.

 

Looking at the published breakthrough cases in Massachusetts, US:

 

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/dozens-of-vaccinated-residents-have-died-of-covid-in-mass-what-to-know-about-breakthrough-cases/2430578/

 

Massachussetts:

4450 breakthrough cases, 79 died, mortality rate 1.78%.

Thai Health workers:

618 breakthrough cases, 2 died, mortality rate 0.3%.

 

All of a sudden Sinovac doesn't look that bad?

 

Of course to get the whole picture the age of the diseased needs to be taken into account, and also the underlying health conditions. The obesity rate in Thailand is way lower than the US.

 

All in all, the Sinovac vaccine shouldn't be written off.

[rabas]

36 minutes ago, gearbox said:

It is true that there is no control group, so the effectiveness in regards to virus transmission can't be easily determined, but the percentage of the breakthrough cases requiring hospitalization and dying can be calculated easily and can't be fudged with arbitrary numbers.

 

From the Thai numbers provided, there were 618 breakthrough cases, and 2 people died, this is around 0.3% of the cases.

 

Looking at the published breakthrough cases in Massachusetts, US:

 

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/dozens-of-vaccinated-residents-have-died-of-covid-in-mass-what-to-know-about-breakthrough-cases/2430578/

 

Massachussetts:

4450 breakthrough cases, 79 died, mortality rate 1.78%.

Thai Health workers:

618 breakthrough cases, 2 died, mortality rate 0.3%.

 

All of a sudden Sinovac doesn't look that bad?

 

Of course to get the whole picture the age of the diseased needs to be taken into account, and also the underlying health conditions. The obesity rate in Thailand is way lower than the US.

 

All in all, the Sinovac vaccine shouldn't be written off.

Two fundamental  errors throw your entire analysis, and claim that Sinvoac is superior, into the eternal immunological dustbin.

 

1. The Massachusetts study was whole population including many older people, some of who died at home. Thailand  healthcare workers are much younger, working age, and in good health.  That alone more than accounts for the difference.

 

2. Although delta recently exceeded 50% of Thai cases, the great majority of the historical breakthrough cases were likely pre Delta. Delta will soon accelerate breakthrough cases and increase severity.  According to here, Delta is almost twice as severe.

 

That is why you do need a control group.  If you could find a group of unvaccinated Thai health workers 1) in the same age bracket, 2) exposed to the same level of cases, and exposed to the same variants, then you have a control group.

 

[placeholder]

18 minutes ago, rabas said:

Two fundamental  errors throw your entire analysis, and claim that Sinvoac is superior, into the eternal immunological dustbin.

 

1. The Massachusetts study was whole population including many older people, some of who died at home. Thailand  healthcare workers are much younger, working age, and in good health.  That alone more than accounts for the difference.

 

2. Although delta recently exceeded 50% of Thai cases, the great majority of the historical breakthrough cases were likely pre Delta. Delta will soon accelerate breakthrough cases and increase severity.  According to here, Delta is almost twice as severe.

 

That is why you do need a control group.  If you could find a group of unvaccinated Thai health workers 1) in the same age bracket, 2) exposed to the same level of cases, and exposed to the same variants, then you have a control group.

 

On the other hand the Tha group was health care workers who are far more exposed to the virus than a general population.

[placeholder]

On 7/12/2021 at 10:05 AM, EricTh said:

I am just wondering how the inactivated virus technology that has been used for decades in other vaccines is 'less effective' when it's the same technology.

 

Obviously, it is more prejudice than scientific. 

 

Because it's being used against a coronavirus which is a far trickier proposition than the viruses that traditional vaccines have been used against in the past.

[misterjames]

On 7/14/2021 at 2:27 PM, placeholder said:

How soon we forget that the topic is "Hundreds of Thai Workers Infected Despite Sinovac Vaccinations".

How soon will you stop deflecting negative attention from the CCP all day and all night?

[jerrymahoney]

EMA starts rolling review of COVID-19 Vaccine (Vero Cell) Inactivated Share
News 04/05/2021
EMA’s human medicines committee (CHMP) has started a rolling review of COVID-19 Vaccine (Vero Cell) Inactivated, developed by Sinovac Life Sciences Co., Ltd. The EU applicant for this medicine is Life'On S.r.l.

 

The CHMP’s decision to start the rolling review is based on preliminary results from laboratory studies (non-clinical data) and clinical studies. These studies suggest that the vaccine triggers the production of antibodies that target SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, and may help protect against the disease.

 

EMA will evaluate data as they become available to decide if the benefits outweigh the risks. The rolling review will continue until enough evidence is available for a formal marketing authorisation application.

 

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-starts-rolling-review-covid-19-vaccine-vero-cell-inactivated

[rabas]

On 7/14/2021 at 8:36 PM, placeholder said:

No, Biontech actually created the vaccine. Pfizer had nothing to do with that.

Biontech went into partnership with Pfizer for testing, manufacturing, and distribution

In other words, Biontech created the car. It's entirely a German design.. Or maybe a Turko-German design.

BioNTech designed the product using technologies licensed from people like Drew Weissman, the father of mRNA technology at Penn State. The Turkish Biochemist, Katalin Karikó who worked jointly with Weissman on mRNA vaccines while at Penn State. It's been suggested the pair be awarded the Noble Prize.

 

The secret why the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines work so well is a unique 2P spike design from Jason McLellan's team at the University of Texas, Austin. (interesting article), again licensed. It amazingly allows the spike to take two configurations used by the virus, thus better training the immune system. (Sinovac can't begin to do such things)

 

The important Lipid nano-particles (fat balls) used by both Moderna and Pfizer to deliver the nRNA are from a Canadian company. 

 

And,  Pfizer is an American company, founded by a German, run by a Greek who has to talk with a Turk at the German company BioNTech. They said they get along fine.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by rabas

[gearbox]

10 hours ago, rabas said:

Two fundamental  errors throw your entire analysis, and claim that Sinvoac is superior, into the eternal immunological dustbin.

 

1. The Massachusetts study was whole population including many older people, some of who died at home. Thailand  healthcare workers are much younger, working age, and in good health.  That alone more than accounts for the difference.

 

2. Although delta recently exceeded 50% of Thai cases, the great majority of the historical breakthrough cases were likely pre Delta. Delta will soon accelerate breakthrough cases and increase severity.  According to here, Delta is almost twice as severe.

 

That is why you do need a control group.  If you could find a group of unvaccinated Thai health workers 1) in the same age bracket, 2) exposed to the same level of cases, and exposed to the same variants, then you have a control group.

 

I'm not trying to portray these newspaper articles as "studies", I'm comparing apples to apples here. Neither the Thai or Massachusetts data is based on clinical trial studies.However when convenient and fits the narrative, a newspaper article is presented as a proof how ineffective Sinovac is.  However there is no study similar as the one from PHE as far as I know to prove or disprove efficiency.

 

My Thai GF, which fully vaccinated with Sinovac told me yesterday (learned from Facebook of course) that being fully vaccinated with Sinovac is the same as if not vaccinated at all. That's absurd. This stuff is being propagated from the western graduates of the University of Brick Laying and Truck Driving to their highly educated Thai girlfriends and wifes,  who then spread it on Facebook.

 

Here is much more realistic assessment of the Sinovac Delta effectiveness:

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3140387/coronavirus-sinovac-worlds-most-used-vaccine-how-good-delta

 

"“We still see many [health care workers] survive and have mild symptoms. It gives us confidence that to a certain degree Sinovac has effectiveness against the new variant, that is why we recommend people have it,” said Dicky Budiman, an Indonesian epidemiologist at Griffith University in Australia who collaborates with LaporCovid-19."

 

[phetphet]

Saw this today about efficacy of AstraZeneca:

https://todayuknews.com/travel/astrazeneca-covid-jab-gives-powerful-protection-that-may-last-a-lifetime/amp/

[bradiston]

4 hours ago, rabas said:

BioNTech designed the product using technologies licensed from people like Drew Weissman, the father of mRNA technology at Penn State. The Turkish Biochemist, Katalin Karikó who worked jointly with Weissman on mRNA vaccines while at Penn State. It's been suggested the pair be awarded the Noble Prize.

 

The secret why the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines work so well is a unique 2P spike design from Jason McLellan's team at the University of Texas, Austin. (interesting article), again licensed. It amazingly allows the spike to take two configurations used by the virus, thus better training the immune system. (Sinovac can't begin to do such things)

 

The important Lipid nano-particles (fat balls) used by both Moderna and Pfizer to deliver the nRNA are from a Canadian company. 

 

And,  Pfizer is an American company, founded by a German, run by a Greek who has to talk with a Turk at the German company BioNTech. They said they get along fine.

 

Katalin Karikó is Hungarian. Apart from that, a fine article!

[rabas]

6 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Katalin Karikó is Hungarian. Apart from that, a fine article!

Typeo, of course she is Hungarian.  Much later she eventually went to work at BioNTech.

[jacko45k]

31 minutes ago, Catoni said:

former agreements are often cancelled and not worth the paper they are written on.  

Cue picture of Chamberlain waving white piece of paper.

[metisdead]

A number of off topic posts and the off topic replies have been removed.  This topic is about:

 

Hundreds of Thai medical workers infected despite Sinovac vaccinations

[Artisi]

On 7/12/2021 at 3:41 AM, Soikhaonoiken said:

If these figures are to be beleived, we'll done Mr P (sarcasm) another waisted time and money, why isn't the Government listening to health experts that the Sinovac vaccine is useless. 

follow the money 

[placnx]

10 hours ago, rabas said:

BioNTech designed the product using technologies licensed from people like Drew Weissman, the father of mRNA technology at Penn State. The Turkish Biochemist, Katalin Karikó who worked jointly with Weissman on mRNA vaccines while at Penn State. It's been suggested the pair be awarded the Noble Prize.

 

The secret why the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines work so well is a unique 2P spike design from Jason McLellan's team at the University of Texas, Austin. (interesting article), again licensed. It amazingly allows the spike to take two configurations used by the virus, thus better training the immune system. (Sinovac can't begin to do such things)

 

The important Lipid nano-particles (fat balls) used by both Moderna and Pfizer to deliver the nRNA are from a Canadian company. 

 

And,  Pfizer is an American company, founded by a German, run by a Greek who has to talk with a Turk at the German company BioNTech. They said they get along fine.

 

Katalin Karikó is Hungarian

[Tony125]

 

BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine antibodies ten times higher than Sinovac's: study

 

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/56d00db5-9278-3701-91bb-7993c6646788/biontech-covid-19-vaccine.html

[Tony125]

23 hours ago, gearbox said:

It is true that there is no control group, so the effectiveness in regards to virus transmission can't be easily determined, but the percentage of the breakthrough cases requiring hospitalization and dying can be calculated easily and can't be fudged with arbitrary numbers.

 

From the Thai numbers provided, there were 618 breakthrough cases, and 2 people died, this is around 0.3% of the cases.

 

Looking at the published breakthrough cases in Massachusetts, US:

 

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/dozens-of-vaccinated-residents-have-died-of-covid-in-mass-what-to-know-about-breakthrough-cases/2430578/

 

Massachussetts:

4450 breakthrough cases, 79 died, mortality rate 1.78%.

Thai Health workers:

618 breakthrough cases, 2 died, mortality rate 0.3%.

 

All of a sudden Sinovac doesn't look that bad?

 

Of course to get the whole picture the age of the diseased needs to be taken into account, and also the underlying health conditions. The obesity rate in Thailand is way lower than the US.

 

All in all, the Sinovac vaccine shouldn't be written off.

BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine antibodies ten times higher than Sinovac's: study

 

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/56d00db5-9278-3701-91bb-7993c6646788/biontech-covid-19-vaccine.html

[placeholder]

On 7/16/2021 at 1:43 AM, misterjames said:

How soon will you stop deflecting negative attention from the CCP all day and all night?

The real question is when will those who are obsessed with the sins, real and imagined, of the CCP learn to stick to the topic at hand..

[Tonypandy]

On 7/12/2021 at 9:45 AM, Tonypandy said:

So with all the other vaccines out there is it the case that after being vaccinated with these there have been no cases of Covid? 

A friend of mine living in UK got is 2nd shot of Phizer on July 11th, on the 15th he tested positive for Covid. So the answer is? 

[tonray]

1 minute ago, Tonypandy said:

A friend of mine living in UK got is 2nd shot of Phizer on July 11th, on the 15th he tested positive for Covid. So the answer is? 

The answer is "any" vaccine will help prevent probability of death or serious illness regardless of whether you eventually test positive. Keep in mind, the antibodies produced are in fact a defenseive shield to alllow your immune system to fight the virus more effectively because it is prepared  for it. They do not necessarily prevent you from being infected.

[Fromas]

Thread is rife with disinformation, especially from some established TVF posters.

[CANSIAM]

On 7/16/2021 at 1:33 PM, phetphet said:

Saw this today about efficacy of AstraZeneca:

https://todayuknews.com/travel/astrazeneca-covid-jab-gives-powerful-protection-that-may-last-a-lifetime/amp/

 Excellent, sounds like I'am building search and destroy T - cells along with the virus busting antibodies........

[Pmbkk]

30 minutes ago, Fromas said:

Thread is rife with disinformation, especially from some established TVF posters.

 

The thing with TVF posters - they are a thing of the past... ????

[Rimmer]

Posts denigrating and calling Chinese vaccines useless and referring to it with derogatory names have been removed.

Whilst it may be less effective in certain cases ie Delta strain it is by no means useless.

 

At the end of the day this is a government sponsored vaccine and the forum and or yourself can get in trouble for comments like this so stop it.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, Tonypandy said:

A friend of mine living in UK got is 2nd shot of Phizer on July 11th, on the 15th he tested positive for Covid. So the answer is? 

Answer is he will probably be OK.

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/how-long-does-it-take-for-the-covid-19-vaccines-to-become-effective-1.5402892

 

One week after the second dose is administered, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine will be 95 per cent effective in preventing symptomatic COVID-19 and severe outcomes related to it.

[Tony125]

Study: Chinese COVID shot may offer elderly poor protection

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/study-chinese-covid-shot-may-offer-elderly-poor-protection/ar-AAMtciU?li=BBnb7Kz

[Tony125]

Antibodies from Sinovac's COVID-19 shot fade after about 6 months, booster helps - study

https://www.yahoo.com/news/antibodies-sinovacs-covid-19-shot-142748493.html

 

 

Mixed AstraZeneca-Pfizer shot boosts COVID antibody level - study

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mixed-astrazeneca-pfizer-shot-boosts-080120509.html