Are Typical Thai "Tokay" Lizards Dangerous? If not, then WHY are people so afraid of them?

[GammaGlobulin]

When I first came to Thailand, I often studied outside my room, and I would normally see several types of lizards clinging to the walls all around me.

 

In Thai, there are basically two types that you will hear about, in passa Thai, one being the DuGe, which is fairly large, and the other being the the smaller one, and I forget the name of that one. The smaller lizard will stay inside your house, and eat mosquitos and other insects that you might not want in your home.

 

Here is the image of the the slightly larger variety.

 

It is this DukGe that makes this very loud and distinctive vocalization throughout the night, outside your window.  Yet, I have never seen one come inside my house.

 

Most people that I have spoken to are deathly afraid of the larger variety of Dukge.  

 

They say that once they bite you,  then these lizards never let go.

 

Even the mention of these lizards makes their skin crawl.  The very view of this animal is enough to send shivers down the spine.

 

So, are these larger lizards basically harmless?

 

What would happen if they bit you, and what should you do if they did?

 

When I first saw one of these guys, up close, I was amazed by their beauty.  I could not believe just how beautiful they truly are.

 

And so, I just am curious why people here are so wary of them.  Do they pose any risk if you should try to pick them up, for example?

 

What my landlady told me is that, once they bite you, they just hang on and never let go.

 

I am not so sure if this is actually true, but now, after listening to several people talk about these lizards, I have become somewhat more fearful, and I am not able to appreciate their beauty, up close, as I once did.

 

So....what is the REAL story, what are the real facts, about these beautiful creatures?

 

Should we be afraid of them?

 

Or, can we just get close and marvel at their beauty.

 

Pls let me know.

 

Note: By the way...  this guy, the one in the image that I have posted, is not a large one.  I would say that he is sort of an adolescent who is still in the process of growing to his full size.  Usually, you will see these guys after a rain, when there are plenty of termite ants flying around.

 

This is a pretty interesting topic for people who live in Thailand, I guess.

 

So, what is the scoop about these magnificent animals? 

[sezze]

Don't be afraid of them . They loud , do go to the toilet quite often ( and pretty large for it's size ) , do eat tons of critters . I heard Chinese people a few y ago payed quite some money for them , but i never got it confirmed . They do not bite you unless you want to be bitten , like never put your hand in front of a croc also . They will run away from you , they are very similar to other geckos , only larger . They aren't very shy , but if you try to catch 1 you certainly need to work a bit and then yes , they certainly can and will bite if given the chance , and it does have very small saw like teeth , so it can go through your skin and you might put desinfectant on that afterwards .

[Salerno]

13 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Should we be afraid of them?

Nope, can give a somewhat nasty bite (with the possibility of infection if it draws blood as with any open wound) but I think they're great too. Can make a bit of a mess.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokay_gecko

 

I do get a chuckle from the somewhat related classic YouTube vid too, will see if I can track it down. In the meantime a sad ad:

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

6 minutes ago, sezze said:

Don't be afraid of them . They loud , do go to the toilet quite often ( and pretty large for it's size ) , do eat tons of critters . I heard Chinese people a few y ago payed quite some money for them , but i never got it confirmed . They do not bite you unless you want to be bitten , like never put your hand in front of a croc also . They will run away from you , they are very similar to other geckos , only larger . They aren't very shy , but if you try to catch 1 you certainly need to work a bit and then yes , they certainly can and will bite if given the chance , and it does have very small saw like teeth , so it can go through your skin and you might put desinfectant on that afterwards .

OK...  but...  as I mentioned...

 

a.  Duke

b. Jinjok

 

Two types.

 

OBVIOUSLY, the Jinjok will never bite you, obviously.

 

However, the Duke, when they get quite large, then one might think they have some potential to bite.

 

SO....then why are all my Thai friends so fearful of them????  They must know more than I do about this.

 

The reason I ask this question is because....  In this past, I had always been quite pleased to have them around me, while I was outside studying at night.  However, after listening to so many "stories" from my Thai friends, who should know, then I have become somewhat fearful of these lizards, as well.

 

HOWEVER, if I could be sure that my original thinking about these lizards is correct, that they are just very beautiful and pose no risk to me...then...I could just go back to being more comfortable with having these creatures around me, and enjoying their presence. 

 

This is the reason for my original question.

 

Such beautiful animals, as I guess anyone should be able to easily see.  So, maybe it is a local sort of myth that they might pose risk, if one were to just study with them, at night.

 

Tks for your reply.

[Chelseafan]

The smaller ones are Chingchoks?

 

[GammaGlobulin]

3 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

The smaller ones are Chingchoks?

 

Yes.  Jinjok.  I had forgotten the Thai word.  Tks.

[GammaGlobulin]

By the way....  My reason for posting was that....

 

Originally, as I mentioned, when I first arrived here, I really enjoyed having these large lizards hanging on the walls outside my house, probably because their presence reminded me that I was in the "jungle', and I appreciated this very much.

 

However, as months went by, I began listening to so many "stories" from my Thai friends, concerning their fear of being bitten by one of these animals.

 

I had thought that these were just benign and extremely beautiful creatures.

I loved to have them around me, just to enjoy their colorful glory.

 

Hopefully, I can get back to my former view of these reptiles.

 

Maybe I will need to check this out with a true herpetologist.

 

Tks for the input.

 

(Also....PLEASE....I hope you will not make me cringe by mentioning the obvious similarity between the terms herpetologist and herpes.  Let's not be infantile.  Thank you.) 

 

 

[RichardColeman]

Have these near my house, never seen an animal move so fast

[GammaGlobulin]

4 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Have these near my house, never seen an animal move so fast

Yes.  These guys really can move.  BUT, these guys are OBVIOUSLY just too cute and benign.  I was talking about the larger lizards that look very fierce.

 

By the way...do you have any explanation for the purpose of this guy's super long tail?

 

Obviously, there must be some reason for this adaptation.

 

Think about it.

 

Here in SE Asia, we can see wondrous things that we never saw before.

 

Probably, any child where we come from would be enraptured by having a lizard with such a long tail available just outside his home.

 

Lizards like this, you gotta pay much money for, where we come from, I suppose.

[Chelseafan]

11 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Have these near my house, never seen an animal move so fast

Looks like a long-tailed lizard. Can't quite put my finger on how they came up with the name....

Edited July 23, 2021 by Chelseafan

[bunnydrops]

The story I heard is that parents told their children that if they were not good the Tokays would come to get them. So they grew up fearing them. Also if they do not do at least 5 "tokeys" when they sing, it brings bad luck to the house hold and need to be chased away.

[KhaoYai]

58 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

SO....then why are all my Thai friends so fearful of them????  They must know more than I do about this.

Nope,  you will note they are also scared of ghosts - that are everywhere apparently.  The Mrs is scared to death of them - ask her why? She has no idea - she 'just doesn't like them'.

 

I actively encouraged a Tokay to take up residence because I mistakenly thought it might eat the bloody Jingjocks - it didn't.  Never known one bite, they do their best to get away from you but any animal will fight for survival when cornered.  Bit noisy though - especially the wind up to the main call.

Edited July 23, 2021 by KhaoYai

[HeijoshinCool]

39 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Have these near my house, never seen an animal move so fast

.

Not as fast as my wife when one fell from the rafters onto her chest....

[GammaGlobulin]

22 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Nope,  you will note they are also scared of ghosts - that are everywhere apparently.  The Mrs is scared to death of them - ask her why? She has no idea - she 'just doesn't like them'.

 

I actively encouraged a Tokay to take up residence because I mistakenly thought it might eat the bloody Jingjocks - it didn't.  Never known one bite, they do their best to get away from you but any animal will fight for survival when cornered.  Bit noisy though - especially the wind up to the main call.

NOISE to you might be MUSIC to mine ears.  I love the sound of them at night.  For some reason, their vocalizations are comforting to me, and always have been.

 

By the way...  What do you think about their call?

 

Strangely enough, when I first listened to the Dukge, I actually believed they were saying Yuck You <deleted>.....  I STILL believe this is true.

 

Still, I guess, if you say that they do not pose much risk, and if we can welcome them hanging around on our walls, outside, then we should appreciate them, and we are blessed by their presence.

 

I have, so far, never been bitten by any type of lizard.

Truly BEAUTIFUL animals.

 

We are lucky to be in a place where there are many of them, I suppose.

 

Note:  Have you ever watched the film, "Night of the Iguana"?  Well, these lizards, the Dukge, is far smaller.  Great film, I thought.  But then, what would you expect from a writer such as Tennessee Williams.  And, sometimes, when the Dukge are out at night, after a heavy rain, I do think of this great film.

Edited July 23, 2021 by GammaGlobulin

[Aforek]

Tokays are very useful , but for me they are horrible and frightening !

 

I had some in my house, and was happy when they left ( golden snakes can eat them, I have seen a picture ) 

they are very noisy, really, I don't like them ; but I think that if you   don't  disturb them, they are not interrested by you 

[GammaGlobulin]

6 minutes ago, Aforek said:

Tokays are very useful , but for me they are horrible and frightening !

 

I had some in my house, and was happy when they left ( golden snakes can eat them, I have seen a picture ) 

they are very noisy, really, I don't like them ; but I think that if you   don't  disturb them, they are not interested by you 

I agree.  They can be very frightening, if they reside inside one's home.  And, they are loud.

Edited July 23, 2021 by GammaGlobulin

[Rampant Rabbit]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Have these near my house, never seen an animal move so fast

These  are the best ones, if  you catch one and sit  it  on  your  shoulder  it  will  just sit  there  looking at you. You can get pretty  close to them before they scamper off

[bbko]

Yeah yeah yeah, tokays are harmless, like ghosts they are nothing to worry about, go ahead and ignore the Thais and farangs here, marvel in the tokay's beauty, enjoy their night time calls, reach out and pet them and let us know how that works out for you.

 

I hope my sarcasm is duly noted. Nice to look at? Yes. Harmless to the touch? Oh hell no. I have 3 outside adult dogs in my garden and they kill mice, rats, and green snakes on a weekly basis but they stay clear of tokays and brown snakes, you'd be wise to do the same.

Edited July 23, 2021 by bbko

[GammaGlobulin]

4 minutes ago, bbko said:

Yeah yeah yeah, tokays are harmless, like ghost they are nothing to worry about, go ahead and ignore the Thais and marvel in the tokay's beauty, reach out and pet them and let us know how that works out for you.

I do not doubt what I have been told by friends of mine here.  I just guess that they know best, and so I will do what they do, which is to have respect for these animals,and not get too close.  Just admire them from a distance.

[GammaGlobulin]

Tokay geckos are generally aggressive, territorial, and can inflict a strong bite....

The above statement from Wikipedia.

Therefore, just to be clear, we should just enjoy their beauty, but not try to pet them, like a hamster, or a lab rat.

 

These lizards have a large head, and muscular jaws.

 

The strong bite of the tokay gecko makes it ill-suited for inexperienced keepers.

 

Such beautiful beasts, it is true.

 

Also, they are a threatened species in some areas...so....

 

We are VERY lucky to be able to have so many clinging to our walls, here in Thailand.

 

Some day, maybe, these guys will be rare in Thailand.

 

I hope I never see the day.

 

[tonray]

3 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

SO....then why are all my Thai friends so fearful of them????  They must know more than I do about this.

It's re-incarnation....the lizard may be a human who 'devolved' into a Tokay. Also Thais have certain superstitions, I routinelly talk to little animals when I'm outside working...you know "Hey little Gecko buddy, want to help me paint this  bench"...just a habit....GF freaks..."Don't ever invite animal spirit !" and when asked why "I don't know..just not supposed to do it !"

 

Snakes and lizards may be humans who are being punished for living bad lives and failing to make merit...remember old Uncle SomChai who beat his wife and Mia Noi ? 

Edited July 23, 2021 by tonray

[GammaGlobulin]

One other point:

 

I have never seen a Tokay lizard eat a dog or a cat, so far, in Thailand.

 

Where I come from, down south, in southern Florida, we lose dogs to gators, all the time.

 

Many houses in southern Florida have canals and waterways abutting back yards.  And, this is a problem for pet dogs.

 

When I was young, I often rowed a single shell on the canals in Collier County, and rarely did anyone voice fear about the alligators there.

 

In addition, we have coral snakes there which hide in the grass, like a snake in the grass, the old saying.

 

A general rule of thumb to avoid getting hurt by a snake is not to get close to one.

I am sure the same goes for the Tokay.

 

I know.

Sometimes you hear about tourists like me worrying about poisonous animals that we might encounter in Thailand.

But, in Florida, we have more.

 

Such as:

 

Pygmy Rattlesnake

Cottonmouth

Diamondback Rattlesnake

Eastern Coral Snake

Timber Rattlesnake

The Southern Copperhead,

And others.

 

We are used to these snakes, and so we are not fearful of them.

 

So, I am just curious why, since the Tokay is far less formidable than the Coral Snake, it seems that people are so fearful of this guy?

 

I think it might be because the Tokay is just about always there.  He might be attached to your front door, for example.  Or, he might be hanging above you.

 

But, as I say, the Tokay is pretty benign.  And, I really DO love the sound of him at night...sort of like a lullaby, sending me off to the land of Nod.

 

Also, each Tokay I see is more beautiful than the last.

 

==============

 

One more note regarding scorpions that I have found in my house, here, this month.

 

Did you know, and I am sure you know, that if you use a BLACKLIGHT or a UV-A light, then the scorpion will floresce?

 

So, I am just saying...with scorpions, I guess, if you turn out all the lights in your house, and then use a black light, then if there are any scorpions, then they should fluoresce brightly.

 

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the Tokay lizard.  They do not fluoresce.

So.  Tokays in your house cannot be found using this same method.

Edited July 23, 2021 by GammaGlobulin

[sezze]

Comon people , be serious , it is just a larger gekko , nothing more nothing less . It can and will bite if you do not give it any other chance , but otherwise they are not at all interested in you or your pet animals ( unless the pet animal is a critter or small frog or similar ) . A bee will will sting you before any tokay will do , and i am talking a bee , not a wasp . They are beautiful , and yes very loud , but very very harmless . Watch them on your wall , if they get inside , try use a broom to get it outside, and done .

[Pattaya Spotter]

Thais in general have a dislike for lizards, and in particular water monitor lizards (hia) in Thai ???? One of the worst insults you can hurl at a Thai is to call them a "hia," and it's most likely to provoke a physical confrontation (so don't do it). I think this general cultural dislike of lizards extends to the smaller tokay gecko variety as well. As to being dangerous, I've heard that if cornered and provoked they may bite, which can produce an infectious wound, but if left to their own devices just go about their business eating insects and calling back and forth to each other in the night. In fact, I quite enjoy their nighttime calling as some natural ASMR that quickly puts me to sleep.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Pattaya Spotter

[GammaGlobulin]

Which reminds me:

 

Although I have never been bitten by the Tokay,

 

Several months ago, while eating Kao Pad Gai late at night at a streetside food vendor, I was bitten on the toe by a rat.

 

Just a small bite, and only a tiny drop of blood.

 

However, I did visit Ram Hospital, just to seek medical advice.

 

I had thought that, normally, a rat bite should not be cause for concern.

 

And so, I was rather surprised when the doctor at Ram told me that I must have a series of Rabies vaccinations.  Fortunately, the hospital had a good supply.

 

Here in Thailand, the rabies jabs are not that expensive.  I think I had about 5 of them.  And, in my opinion, they were super cheap, but I forget the exact price, maybe around Bt.1200.00 per jab, or something.

 

Anyway, it turned out that the same nurse gave me the jab, each time, and we sort of struck up a nice friendship by the 5th jab.

 

===========

 

Of course, maybe with the Tokay bite, it might not be the same.

 

I have heard that reptile bites can infect one with salmonella, or something.  And, maybe I would need some other therapy for such a thing.

 

Health Care in Thailand is both GOOD and reasonably priced.

This is one of the great things about being here, bitten by a rat, rather than being in southern Florida, on the coast, soaking up the rays.

 

In Florida, if you need a series of rabies jabs, then, you will be charged an arm and a leg.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by GammaGlobulin

[sezze]

1 minute ago, Aforek said:

I know what you mean, I  like to hear when they are far away ( for instance in the house next door ????  )but when they are in the false ceilling, 2 meters above you,  it's diffferent : loud !

 

what I don't like is their big shape and frightening aspect 

but I am not affraid, just I don't like :

 

I fear much more ( like Thai people ) the centipede ( ta-kap )  ; this one is very dangerous and in houses, too 

ohh yes , certainly the centipede is not funny . Even small can do serious damage ( pain ), and they are very aggressive and fast . Not the kind of things to play around with , you won't die , but they aren't funny at all either . Scorpions i was afraid of them 1st times i saw them , but now i find them marvelous . They are slow, totally not aggressive , and if in house a piece of cardboard or anything like that is fine to put it outside the house . They live together , centipede and scorpion , under rocks/leaves , but not at all the same . They do however have the same function and they eat the larger critters like cockroaches .

[TIMMOC]

I lived in Phrae for 2 years in the 1980s.   We had a resident "doo-gae" in our home.  My neighbors said it was good luck and that Thai people honored - not feared - these creatures.  Maybe times have changed but, traditionally, these creatures were accepted and honored. 

 

[sezze]

3 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Which reminds me:

 

Although I have never been bitten by the Tokay,

 

Several months ago, while eating Kao Pad Gai late at night at a streetside food vendor, I was bitten on the toe by a rat.

 

Just a small bite, and only a tiny drop of blood.

 

However, I did visit Ram Hospital, just to seek medical advice.

 

I had thought that, normally, a rat bite should not be cause for concern.

 

And so, I was rather surprised when the doctor at Ram told me that I must have a series of Rabies vaccinations.  Fortunately, the hospital had a good supply.

 

Here in Thailand, the rabies jabs are not that expensive.  I think I had about 5 of them.  And, in my opinion, they were super cheap, but I forget the exact price, maybe around Bt.1200.00 per jab, or something.

 

Anyway, it turned out that the same nurse gave me the jab, each time, and we sort of struck up a nice friendship by the 5th jab.

 

===========

 

Of course, maybe with the Tokay bite, it might not be the same.

 

I have heard that reptile bites can infect one with salmonella, or something.  And, maybe I would need some other therapy for such a thing.

 

Health Care in Thailand is both GOOD and reasonably priced.

This is one of the great things about being here, bitten by a rat, rather than being in southern Florida, on the coast, soaking up the rays.

 

In Florida, if you need a series of rabies jabs, then, you will be charged an arm and a leg.

 

 

 

 

Salmonella vs rabies , not at all the same beast . Rabies you die , salmonella you go toilet . And US and healthcare are a joke , 1200b a piece in Europe would be crazy expensive.

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

 

By the way...do you have any explanation for the purpose of this guy's super long tail?

 

Obviously, there must be some reason for this adaptation.

 

.

I don't know this for a fact,

but if I had to guess I would say that because they are so fast they need the long tail for directional stability, Being able to change direction while running. 

Also I read some place that some lizards , when attacked from behind  will sacrifice their tail so that they can escape and that they grow another one. 

[sezze]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

I don't know this for a fact,

but if I had to guess I would say that because they are so fast they need the long tail for directional stability, Being able to change direction while running. 

Also I read some place that some lizards , when attacked from behind  will sacrifice their tail so that they can escape and that they grow another one. 

True story , also the case for geckos , but it will be smaller after . They also can do it only 1 single time , as they got like a "break bone" inside the tail , once it is gone , it is gone for good .  You can see geckos once a while without tail , since they do not like other geckos nearby ( they do eat and attack eachother when they are too close ) .