Retirement visa confusion

[Tonto]

Hi all . . .

I am an English Male of 59. Married 22 years ago to a Malaysian who has not renounced her Malaysian nationality.

Over the past few years we have been travelling between England and SE Asia and now wish to retire to Chiang Mai with my Malaysian wife of 22 years.

The info on this board relating to various visa requirements is very useful, although contradictory in parts. I have been to the RajaThai website which states that foreign retirees are positively welcome in Thailand. However, I have found very little information relating to retirement procedures and capital requirments. Perhaps I have been to the wrong websites?

Could anyone please help by letting me know:

1. What would be the likely requirements for retirement visas?

2. What is the capital requirement? I have seen 250K and 850K US Dollars being quoted.

3. We want to buy a house in Chiang Mai - are there any restrictions placed upon foreign ownership?

All info would be gratefully received and would also like to hear from any other ex-pat retirees.

[lopburi3]

A Residence Permit in the case of Retirement for Person who is 50 years or Over

1. Qualifications for the Applicant.

1.1 An alien being 50 years of age and above (on the date of submitting and application).

1.2 Not being a person prohibited from entering the Kingdom.

1.3 Having no criminal record against the security of Thailand and the country of his/her nationality, or the country of his/her residence.

1.4 Having the nationality of or the residence in the country where his/her application is submitted.

1.5 Not having prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B.E. 2535) (Leprosy, Tuberculosis (T.B.), Elephantiasis, Drug Addiction, Alcoholism, Third step of Syphilis)

1.6 Not being allowed to work in Thailand.

 

2. Documents for the Application. (requiring 3 sets in original)

2.1 A passport valid no less than one year and a half.

2.2 Three copies of a Visa Application Form (with photos).

2.3 A Personal Data Form.

2.4 A copy of a bank statement showing a deposit at the amount equal to no less than 800,000 Baht, or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly salary of no less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income of no less than 800,000 Baht a year.

2.5 In the case of the bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an orginal copy) is to be shown as well.

2.6 Verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record issued from the county of his/her nationality or residence (the verification shall be valid for no more than 3 months).

2.7 A medical certificate issued from the country where the application is submitted, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicatted in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B.E. 2535) (the certificate shall be valid for no more than 3 months).

2.8 In the case that the applicant wishes to have his/her spouse stay together in the Kingdom but the spouse is not qualified for the O-A code

3. Recommendations for the Alien While Staying in the Kingdom.

3.1 When completing the stay of 90 days in the Kingdom, the alien shall report to the competent authority and repeat it every 90 days with the immigration officer in the alien's residence area, or report to the police station in the alien's residence area if there is no immigration control there.

 (In order to report to the competent authority by mail, the alien shall do as follows:

 - The Report Form (To Mo 47) together with a copy of the passport pages showing the alien's photo, personal details, and the latest arrival visa stamp as well as a self addressed evelop with postage affixed, shall be forwarded, by 7 days before the due date, by acknowledgement of receipt mail to the Immigration Bureau, Sathon Tai Road, Sathon District, Bangkok 10120.

 - In the case of conducting any following reports, the Reply Form for the previous report shall be enclosed as well.)

3.2 At the end of the one-year stay, the alien who wishes to extend his/her stay shall submit a request for the extended period at the Immigration Bureau with documented evidence of money transfer, or a deposit account in the Kingdom, or an income certificate, at the amount of no less than 800,000 Baht, or an income certificate plus a deposit account at the total amount of no less than 800,000 Baht a year.

3.3 If the alien's spouse wishes to extend his/her stay as well, the marriage certificate shall be produced.

Above is official page from Royal Thai Embassy in Washington.

Only Thai can own land in Thailand so you will not be able to buy anything other than a condo.  You can rent or lease a house.

[Tonto]

Many thanks lopburi3 for your speedy response.

The plethora of requirements can be met

by us. However, anyone giving reasonable

consideration to them could be detterrred

by virtue of the almost impossible factors

and range of certfication douments needed

to satisfy the requirements for "retirement".

In fact, they are almost impossible to meet.

Personally I find the on-going conditions to be

somewhat oppressive, but then we do have a

choice, as everyone has. As someone once said:

"If you don't like the apples, buy the pears".

It certainly doesn't give the impression of a

"Welcome to Retirement in Thailand" policy as some

commercial Thai ventures appear to be promoting

eg. Health related sites and Private Hospitals".

Anyway, many thanks for your time in pasting

the entire document which is much appreciated.

However, is there any reason for the document

to be lodged in Washington USA for the edification

of people like me in England UK?

Sadly, it seems we must look elsewhere for

somewhere nice to retire.

???

[caughtintheact]

The reference is from the Thai Embassy in Washington DC - it does not mean that you have to apply through thr Thai Embassy there.  You would apply through the Thai Embassy or a consultate in the UK.  

It is really not complicated.  First you go to a Thai Embassy or consulate and apply for a non-immigrant O visa to retire in Thailand.  

You will normally get about a 90 day visa.  

Before the 90 days expire, you go to Thai Immigration with the documents cited for a visa extension.

During the first 90 days, transfer the equivalent of B800,000 from your home country to in a local bank account in Thailand.  

The alternative to transferring B800,000 is to show proof of a pension of at least B65000 per month.  

The third option is a combination.of the lump sum deposit and monthly income.  The way to calculate this is to take the monthly pension amount, say B50,000 and multiply it by 12, which is B600,000.  Then subtract that amount from B800,000.  The remaining amount (B200,000 in this example) is the amount you will need to deposit as a lump sum by transfer from  the your home country.  You can use the lump sum after you get your visa extension, but each year before renewing your retirement visa, you will have to to show that you have the B200,000 in the bank in addition to your monthly pension transfers.

[Tonto]

Very many thanks "Caughtintheact"

Your detailed procedural route-map certainly

gives us much hope.

When we got the first reply from "lopburi3"

we had a long discussion here and decided

on retirement in Kota Baru under the Malaysian

"Silver Hair" plan. Or as an alternative, to do a

visa-run for as long as possible. Or even to do

say 60 days in Chiang Mai and 60 days in Kota Baru

with a rented place in each location. (A bit unsettling

though)

Anyway we'll probably follow your advice and

go for the "miscellaneous and others" o visa first

as the financial requirements present no problems.

Thanks again for your time and help in providing

such a positive helpful response.

[caughtintheact]

Glad it helped.  Just remember that you are dealing with bureaucracy, and bureaucracies don't like things out of the ordinary, as it makes more work for them.  Follow the procedures exactly, never show anger or impatience, smile a bit, relax and enjoy.  After all, you are retiring, not pressed to start a new business by three days ago.  

Oh yes, you may also need an affadavit  or some kind of letter  from your embassy, requesting Immigration to let you retire here.  I'm not sure how the British Embassy here handles those things. You should contact them after arrival.  

I've been on a retirement visa for almost 9 years now.  Last year I renewed it in about 10 minutes for the entire year.

[sevinnow]

When you are moving so close to the Border I would suggest come here on a Tourist visa and renew every 30 days and just try the life style for at least 6 months and find ist hand info on the do's and don'ts, you don't need to aplly for an "Non-immigrant O" visa in your home land you can do it in Thailand.

You never know you might not like it or prefer another Asian country and try getting out of Thailand your "800,000 baht" in a hurry - opps solly mai di Sir !

Sev

:cool:

[caughtintheact]

Sevinnow

Can one really apply to change from a tourist visa to a Non-Imm O visa inside Thailand?  I thought that a trip outside the country was required?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Caught ...as ever you are dead right. The getting of a visa in Thailand for retirement ain't gonna happen. WRONG  As is the advice about taking out your money in the bank. Provided the money comes in from abroad there are no restrictions.   Your money is able to be dealt with as you please. Time for a spot of learning Sevin ? You go off half cocked too often !

[Tonto]

Hi all again, and thanks for all the info and advice.

For *caughtintheact* excellent advice from someone who has actually done it. Thanks again and well done. Your advice is very sound.

For *sevinnow* We wouldn't even dream of retiring to a country with which we were unfamiliar. We have both travelled extensively in SE Asia over a period of 40 years, including many trips to Thailand, *the-land-of smiles*. I lived in Malaysia for 2 full years as a young man, and again in 1982 for another 3 full years. You should try Langkawi for a really great holiday break?

For *Dr Pat Pong*. Always a joy to read your caustic humour with full brevity.  "A distinct advantage?" ::

[Roger13]

Hi 'Caughtintheact'

Could you clarify your

Renewal in 10 minutes, please?

My renewal process also takes

about 10mins - BUT - I am

always given a ONE month

extension initially and after one month,

a further 11 months.

Do you actually get the full 12 months

in one visit? If so why do you (anybody)

think I have to wait one month ?

Suggestions would be appreciated

Roger

[caughtintheact]

Last year was the first time since being on a retirement visa that I received the full year stamp the first time.  Before that it usually took two times as Roger13 says.  Perhaps this year it will take more than one visit.  So I'm not about to give any suggestions, as i don't know why, and I don't expect it to happen again, but will b quite pleased if it does.  Second-guessing what will happen at Immigration from year to year is not a very high priority on my agenda.

[lopburi3]

Immediate issue of one year extension seemed to be possible last year if you had 800k in a bank account for support or retirement visa.  But these policies can change and don't know details.

[Roger13]

RED HOT UPDATE !!

I just got home from Renewing my Retirement Visa.

'This time' - the Lady said - 'I am giving you full 12 months immediately' - (so maybe for the first few years only one month is given initially - then after a few years one 'qualifies' for the one year on your first visit...)

I have only 500K - but I do qualify income wise.

I left home at 9.30am - collected my Letter from my Embassy.

Then to my Bank for their Letter - over to Soi Suan Phlu

where I had to wait in a Queue for one hour - a number system now being in place (8 others were in front of me) - I was processed in about 10 mins and had my 12 months extension by 1.00pm.

I had of course arranged for the Embassy and Bank letters in Advance.

A new requirement - I was asked for sight of my Bank Deposit Books and a photocopy of all pages - I saw these were being asked for and went outside to get mine before being called.

Roger

[caughtintheact]

Part of it depends on your status.  I'm grandfathered (at least for now) under the B200,000 and/or B20,000 per month requirement that was in effect for a few years.  But it took me 8 years before I finally got a one year stamp the first time.  

The only time I actually had a real problem was a few years ago, when Immigration couldn't seem to understand that using a foreign credit card in an ATM was the same as transferring foreign currency here.  This got resolved (with a bit of 3rd party help), and it's been a snap since.

[Tonto]

Hi again "Caught"

Glad things are now working out after 9 years. You didn't mention whether you must report to the Police Station every 90 days as per the "Washington" brief presented here earlier by "lopburi3" ??

To be honest, all these procedures hardly seem worth the anxiety just to spend the remaining autumn years of life AND spending significant sums of money in "The land of smiles" for the priviledge. I found a nice place that has positively welcomed both my retirement and my money on a PR basis, so it seems I'll settle there instead.

Upon reading a recent post by a Volunteer Worker, surely no reasonable person could believe that Farangs are ever welcome in the first place. I must also wonder why his forthright and obviously well-intentioned post has been met by such caustic indifference by this forum?:ghostface:

[caughtintheact]

Howdy Tonto,

Over the past 20 years the Immigration folks have gotten genuinely kinder and gentler.  Even when I had to make a second trip or even a third to finally get the one year extension, the process only took about 5 minutes, except for that one year and the ATM problem.  And that's because I was doing something out of the ordinary, which tends to create waves in the "civil" services of about any country, where they are bound by a book, and someone wants an exception.  As far as the 90 day reporting requirement, it is ingrained into the bureaucracy.  Most expats I know don't bother - they never started and they don't go now.  No one goes hunting for them if they haven't done anything wrong, the visa renewal section doesn't tell them to start. I started over 20 years ago, so I have to go now.  You don't even need to go yourself.  You can send someone else.  When you go, they give you the blank form for the next time.  You can fill it out at home and send a gofer to deliver it when the 90 days are up. I do it myself, but could have someone else do it for me.    The Thai have a philosophy of not interfering in the lives of outsiders, but often outsiders get involved in matters involving Thai that is not their business in Thai eyes, and that is when the fan starts spattering the wall.  Because of modernization, it is sometimes hard for expats to realize that the Thai culture is different in just about every way from western cultures.  The behavior is different, the logic is different and so if one wants to live here, then there are certain "inconveniences" that one has to put up with.  However, reporting that I live at the same address as I did 90 days ago is not a major one.  And you have a choice as to whether or not to start.  

To cite another example, have you ever noticed a police car chasing a speeder in Thailand?  Perhaps, but it is extremely rare.  The philosophy  is that if you are speeding and have an accident, then you will pay the penalty.  If no accident occurs, then Mai Pen Rai, no harm, no foul.  Once in a while the police crackdown on things like motorcyclists not wearing mandatory helmets, drivers not wearing mandatory seat belts, etc., but these are campaigns, they rarely last long, are quickly forgotten until the next time.  

As far as your concern over too many procedures, whem you retire here here is a list of the main procedures you need to follow:

Annually:

1.  Renew your visa (which you would have to do just about anyplace)

2.  Renew your car registration annually if you have a car.  For a small fee there are a number of companies that will do this for you.

3.  Renew your car insurance and third party car insurance annually (all you do is call or email your insurance company, they send you the documents after you deposit the payments in their bank account and fax the deposit slip to their accounting section.  If you have a fax at home and online banking, no need to even leave the house.

Quarterly:  

1.  Report that you are at the same address every 90 days (if you start).

As occurring:

1.  Report if you change your address (SOP for non-citizens in most countries)

Frequently"

1.  Not to be too facetious, but one has to go shopping for food, pay the rent and all the other things that are part of living anywhere.  

So I've given you a list of 6 items that you need to do, one of which you have a choice (90 day reporting) .  Hardly major inconveniences, given that in this day and age security is becoming ever more important, there are scam artists, drug dealers and other nefarious types running all over this country.  When you come here, the Thai do not know who you really are.  All they see is documents, and go on those unless or until you show you are not what you appeared to be.  If you are what you say you are, live your life in peace and harmony, it gets easier and easier as you go along, even though at times things change which might cause a bump in the road from time to time, but that can and does happen everywhere.

When I tell people these things, I am always thinking that if it turns them off, they then probably shouldn't come here, because they will not really enjoy it, as they will be put off by the differences between what they are used to and the way things are here.  And if I do turn people off the only expression that comes to mind is "more beer for us".

[Roger13]

Hi Tonto,

I would just like to say that I agree

with what Caught has written.

I am perfectly Happy here.

Of Course if you have found a Better Hole

then no doubt you will go to it.

I would however be interested to learn its name?

Roger