Have you changed your mind on the COVID Vaccines?

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

Explain this then:

https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

 

Israel has among the world’s highest levels of vaccination for COVID-19, with 78% of those 12 and older fully vaccinated, the vast majority with the Pfizer vaccine. Yet the country is now logging one of the world’s highest infection rates, with nearly 650 new cases daily per million people. More than half are in fully vaccinated people, underscoring the extraordinary transmissibility of the Delta variant and stoking concerns that the benefits of vaccination ebb over time.

Israel's 20% Unvaccinated Now Account for Half of All Serious COVID-19 Cases

While serious cases among a minority of Israelis who are not vaccinated against COVID are steadily rising, among vaccinated people they seem to have plateaued

Prof. Ran Balicer, who heads a committee of experts advising the Health Ministry on the coronavirus pandemic, referred to the change in a tweet on Tuesday. He wrote that the "trend" of unvaccinated people becoming the majority of new seriously ill patients is continuing, and said that on Monday, over 50 percent of the new patients in serious condition were unvaccinated.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-covid-unvaccinated-half-serious-cases-delta-pfizer-1.10146662

Also, 87% of those hospitalized were over 60 years old. The elderly were eligible to be vaccinated first and generally have a lesser immune response to vaccinations.

 

And there's this:,

Israel finds COVID-19 vaccine booster significantly lowers infection risk

Breaking down statistics from Israel's Gertner Institute and KI Institute, ministry officials said that among people aged 60 and over, the protection against infection provided from 10 days after a third dose was four times higher than after two doses.

 

A third jab for over 60-year-olds offered five to six times greater protection after 10 days with regard to serious illness and hospitalisation.

That age group is particularly vulnerable to COVID-19 and in Israel was the first to be inoculated when the vaccine drive began in late December.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-finds-covid-19-vaccine-booster-significantly-lowers-infection-risk-2021-08-22/

 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Not only have you just scored an own goal, you seem oblivious to how and why you did so.

 

Yes Hypothesis is precisely that, an uncertain belief - hence, and I am happy to break this to you, the need to investigate through research to ‘test’ the Hypothesis.

 

Just stick with your opinions, they have by their very nature no need of fact or any factual basis.

 

Oh, I get it now, a hypothesis an uncertain belief while an opinion is......uhhh...ummm....huhh..never mind, I lost my train of thought.

 

Keep ‘m coming!

[rattlesnake]

 

8 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

From the article you linked to:

 

"The sheer number of vaccinated Israelis means some breakthrough infections were inevitable, and the unvaccinated are still far more likely to end up in the hospital or die."

 

Again, for those who have a hard time getting the point:

The unvaccinated are still far more likely to end up in the hospital or die.

Next paragraph in the article:

"“Israel is the model,” agrees Eric Topol, a physician-scientist at Scripps Research. “It’s pure mRNA [messenger RNA] vaccines. It’s out there early. It’s got a very high level population [uptake]. It’s a working experimental lab for us to learn from.”

 

A 'working experimental lab' eh? Nice. So what does that make inoculated people, if not guinea pigs?

[Phoenix Rising]

13 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Next paragraph in the article:

"“Israel is the model,” agrees Eric Topol, a physician-scientist at Scripps Research. “It’s pure mRNA [messenger RNA] vaccines. It’s out there early. It’s got a very high level population [uptake]. It’s a working experimental lab for us to learn from.”

 

A 'working experimental lab' eh? Nice. So what does that make inoculated people, if not guinea pigs?

Lucky.

[Chomper Higgot]

24 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I never said or meant to imply that an opinion is the same as an hypothesis, only that they are similar. It does not surprise me that you are not able to formulate your own response to the examples I provided, but it does surprise me that you not able to see the similarity.  

 

The  distinguishing and differentiating features of each have been explained to you.

 

But there is another important difference that you are demonstrating.

 

A Hypothesis is formulated as the subject of an investigation/research. 

 

The analysis and conclusions of academic and scientific investigation/research return to the Hypothesis to examine it against the findings. It is after the analysis that the Hypothesis is declared false or true according to the outcome of the investigation/research.

 

Formulating an Hypothesis is a step in a process in which the Hypothesis will be tested and/or offered up for testing.

 

 

Opinions are completely different , need not be based on any facts at all and often become more firmly held in the face of facts contradicting the opinion.

 

Far from being the intended subjects of criticism and analysis, those holding opinions, particularly those to which emotions have been attached often become agitated when their opinion is challenged.

 

 

[Phoenix Rising]

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Oh, I get it now, a hypothesis an uncertain belief while an opinion is......uhhh...ummm....huhh..never mind, I lost my train of thought.

 

Well, to be honest that train wasn't exactly breaking speed records so I have high hopes you will find it again.

[Ryan754326]

20 hours ago, placeholder said:

I know what you mean. How could 90% ever be reached for any vaccine? With a few minor exceptions like polio, smallpox, measles, mumps...

If only there were a vaccine against anti-vax lunacy.

Apples vs oranges. It took decades to get those diseases under control, and the world wasn’t expected to remain in a state of lockdown until it was achieved. The smallpox and measles vaccines also gives sterilizing immunity, so it doesn’t continue to spread within a vaccinated population. 
 

There’s nothing anti-vax about me - I’ve had my jabs. I just don’t agree with forced vaccination and vaccine passports, mostly because I don’t see any evidence that these vaccines have what it takes to make covid go away. I’m

also confident that by being vaccinated I will be protected from covid, so it’s none of my concern whether someone else chooses to take a risk with their own life. 
 

 

[rattlesnake]

23 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Uh, yes they are. All scientific data suggest that the vaccines (even the Chinese one) are very effective against people becoming seriously ill or dying from Covid.

What you say is complete BS and a lie.

"All scientific data suggests..." That is already suspisious. There can be no consensus after such a short period of time, science is based on contradicting opinions which work together over time, if we are told "everybody agrees, this is the way to go", it should raise major red flags, especially when (as is the case now) very competent doctors who are speaking against this are being censored and slandered.

 

Anyone with a bit of common sense and critical thinking can only be wary of the excessive push and coerction exercised to inoculate everyone based on a virus which has a 99.5%-99.9% survival rate for people below the age of 70 (CDC figures).

 

If you think complying will help you, then go ahead and comply, it's your choice, but please have the decency and humility to respect people who do not share your opinion.

[rattlesnake]

12 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Lucky.

Well good luck to you then.

[Yellowtail]

27 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The  distinguishing and differentiating features of each have been explained to you.

 

But there is another important difference that you are demonstrating.

 

A Hypothesis is formulated as the subject of an investigation/research. 

 

The analysis and conclusions of academic and scientific investigation/research return to the Hypothesis to examine it against the findings. It is after the analysis that the Hypothesis is declared false or true according to the outcome of the investigation/research.

 

Formulating an Hypothesis is a step in a process in which the Hypothesis will be tested and/or offered up for testing.

 

 

Opinions are completely different , need not be based on any facts at all and often become more firmly held in the face of facts contradicting the opinion.

 

Far from being the intended subjects of criticism and analysis, those holding opinions, particularly those to which emotions have been attached often become agitated when their opinion is challenged.

 

 

You're right, there is absolutely no similarity between an opinion and a hypothesis, my bad. 

 

Sorry you became so agitated, it was not my intent. 

 

Keep 'em coming! 

[Phoenix Rising]

34 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

"All scientific data suggests..." That is already suspisious. There can be no consensus after such a short period of time, science is based on contradicting opinions which work together over time, if we are told "everybody agrees, this is the way to go", it should raise major red flags, especially when (as is the case now) very competent doctors who are speaking against this are being censored and slandered.

 

Anyone with a bit of common sense and critical thinking can only be wary of the excessive push and coerction exercised to inoculate everyone based on a virus which has a 99.5%-99.9% survival rate for people below the age of 70 (CDC figures).

 

If you think complying will help you, then go ahead and comply, it's your choice, but please have the decency and humility to respect people who do not share your opinion.

""All scientific data suggests..." That is already suspisious. There can be no consensus after such a short period of time, science is based on contradicting opinions which work together over time, if we are told "everybody agrees, this is the way to go", it should raise major red flags, especially when (as is the case now) very competent doctors who are speaking against this are being censored and slandered"

 

Which "competent doctors" are you referring to?

[Ryan754326]

13 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

I believe that 70% doesn't reflect the entire population. Just those over 12. Sadly, many under 12 are now getting sick and spreading the virus.

Yes, I think you’re right that they mean 70% of those who are eligible for the vaccine, but it doesn’t change the fact that our death numbers have dropped to almost nothing. And yet, in spite of the low number of deaths, the health authorities are still peeing their pants over case numbers.
If the whole idea is that vaccination won’t prevent infection, but will prevent serious illness, then why should cases that don’t require hospitalization be any reason to worry?

 

The under 12 crowd has always been spreading the virus, but very few actually get very sick. The US CDC currently counts less than 500 deaths among those under 18, in a population of over 330 million.
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-on-Ages-0-18-Yea/nr4s-juj3

Considering that most kids who get infected with covid have no symptoms, you have to wonder how many of them already have natural immunity, but let’s not let that stop our governments from buying a few million more vaccines from the Pharma companies, just to be safe. 

What ever happened to antibody testing?

 

[rattlesnake]

2 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

""All scientific data suggests..." That is already suspisious. There can be no consensus after such a short period of time, science is based on contradicting opinions which work together over time, if we are told "everybody agrees, this is the way to go", it should raise major red flags, especially when (as is the case now) very competent doctors who are speaking against this are being censored and slandered"

 

Which "competent doctors" are you referring to?

Doctor Sherry Tenpenny, doctor Larry Palevski, doctor Carrie Madej, doctor Christiane Northrup, doctor Lee Merritt, doctor Sucharit Bhakdi, doctor Didier Raoult, professor Luc Montagné, doctor Louis Fouché to name just a few. 

 

 

They are targeted by harsh political censorship and slander, as evidenced by a simple Google search with any of their names. The issue I am raising is why are they not allowed to debate publicly, if what they say is so easy to debunk?

 

[Phoenix Rising]

31 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Doctor Sherry Tenpenny, doctor Larry Palevski, doctor Carrie Madej, doctor Christiane Northrup, doctor Lee Merritt, doctor Sucharit Bhakdi, doctor Didier Raoult, professor Luc Montagné, doctor Louis Fouché to name just a few. 

 

 

They are targeted by harsh political censorship and slander, as evidenced by a simple Google search with any of their names. The issue I am raising is why are they not allowed to debate publicly, if what they say is so easy to debunk?

 

I thought I should google all the "competent doctors" you listed but checking the first one was more than enough, thank you:

 

"Sherri J. Tenpenny is an American anti-vaccination activist who supports the disproven hypothesis that vaccines cause autism. She has falsely asserted the vaccines magnetize people and connect them with cellphone towers."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherri_Tenpenny

 

A question for you; Do you honestly think calling this bunch of loonies "competent" does your credibility any good???

 

 

 

 

 

[rattlesnake]

13 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

I thought I should google all the "competent doctors" you listed but checking the first one was more than enough, thank you:

 

"Sherri J. Tenpenny is an American anti-vaccination activist who supports the disproven hypothesis that vaccines cause autism. She has falsely asserted the vaccines magnetize people and connect them with cellphone towers."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherri_Tenpenny

 

A question for you; Do you honestly think calling this bunch of loonies "competent" does your credibility any good???

 

 

 

 

 

A question for you; Do you honestly think calling this bunch of loonies "competent" does your credibility any good???

After months of staying silent, I have decided to start speaking out and try to snap people out of a collective trance, as this whole thing is just going too far. The next step is injecting children and as a father myself, that is where I draw the line. If I can help wake up just one person, then I have not lost my time.

 

To answer your question:

 

As I said, they are targeted by harsh political censorship and slander, as evidenced by a simple Google search with any of their names. No need to put "competent" in quotation marks, they are competent as evidenced by decades of work and recognition.

 

Throughout history, in times of political turmoil or disruption, those who oppose the dominant narrative have always been labelled crazy and been subject to intense character assassination, so nothing new here.

 

Those who are well versed in political social engineering know how easy it is, with the right tools and means, to distort public perception to make people look either good or bad. This is especially true nowadays with search engine algorithms which can delete content altogether, or multiply occurrences exponentially if needed.

Taking excerpts from people's speeches, distorting them and using them out of context in their absence is a basic slandering technique.

 

As ordinary citizens, to make informed decisions, we can't rely on Google results and must listen and think for ourselves, regarding the above-mentioned doctors that involves actually listening to what they say objectively and at length. Saying "It's BS, they are crazy because I read it on Wikipedia" isn't relevant.

 

 

[Phoenix Rising]

44 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Saying "It's BS, they are crazy because I read it on Wikipedia" isn't relevant.

I'm not saying they're crazy because Wikipedia is saying it. I'm saying it because they actually are. At least Tenpenny is. If you don't think claiming that a vaccine makes you magnetic and connects you with 5G cellphone towers is at a minimum borderline then you and I do not inhabit the same universe.

From the horse's mouth:

 

Anti-vaxxer tells Ohio lawmakers COVID-19 vaccine can leave people magnetized, interfaced with 5G to

[rattlesnake]

44 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

I'm not saying they're crazy because Wikipedia is saying it. I'm saying it because they actually are. At least Tenpenny is. If you don't think claiming that a vaccine makes you magnetic and connects you with 5G cellphone towers is at a minimum borderline then you and I do not inhabit the same universe.

From the horse's mouth:

 

Anti-vaxxer tells Ohio lawmakers COVID-19 vaccine can leave people magnetized, interfaced with 5G to

It's borderline in the sense that it pushes the limits of what we know and accept. Do I believe and accept everything she says without question? Hell no. Do I think she is crazy and should not be heard? Hell no. Again, in context (i.e. not in a 2-minute excerpt), she (and the others I have mentioned, it's not just Tenpenny and I appreciate this is a lot to take in) brings to light very disturbing facts emerging about the content of some vaccines, Spanish researchers found graphene dioxyde in some Pfizer vials (and yes if you type this on ole' Google you will probably find articles saying this is insanity) and Japan has just suspended 1.6 Moderna doses which they tested and which contain "unknown metal nanoparticles". We don't know much yet about it, but it should be enough to slow things down instead of accelerating them.

[rattlesnake]

his

2 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

I thought I should google all the "competent doctors" you listed but checking the first one was more than enough, thank you:

 

"Sherri J. Tenpenny is an American anti-vaccination activist who supports the disproven hypothesis that vaccines cause autism. She has falsely asserted the vaccines magnetize people and connect them with cellphone towers."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherri_Tenpenny

 

A question for you; Do you honestly think calling this bunch of loonies "competent" does your credibility any good???

 

 

 

 

 

Here is another of the physicians I mentioned, Christiane Northrup, you can't call her incompetent by looking at her CV. She has written several best-selling books and appeared on Oprah, won awards etc.

 

https://www.drnorthrup.com/about/

 

From the moment she started questioning the Covid narrative and vaccination (same as Tenpenny, by actually looking at some of the stuff that's in there and what it does to the body), she was immediately dropped, blacklisted, slandered, pressured. Something fishy going on there.

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

It's borderline in the sense that it pushes the limits of what we know and accept. Do I believe and accept everything she says without question? Hell no. Do I think she is crazy and should not be heard? Hell no. Again, in context (i.e. not in a 2-minute excerpt), she (and the others I have mentioned, it's not just Tenpenny and I appreciate this is a lot to take in) brings to light very disturbing facts emerging about the content of some vaccines, Spanish researchers found graphene dioxyde in some Pfizer vials (and yes if you type this on ole' Google you will probably find articles saying this is insanity) and Japan has just suspended 1.6 Moderna doses which they tested and which contain "unknown metal nanoparticles". We don't know much yet about it, but it should be enough to slow things down instead of accelerating them.

You don't think someone who claims that a miniscule dose of vaccine can magnetize you is nuts? 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/07/10/graphene-oxide-in-pfizer-covid-19-vaccines-here-are-the-latest-unsupported-claims/?sh=540607e974d7

 

As for graphene dioxide...

"Yet, there are now claims circulating that the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine is around 99% graphene oxide. This despite the fact that graphene oxide does not appear on either the FDA or CDC list. For example, an Instagram post included the following statement: “99% Graphene Oxide in Pfizer V4X? Spanish scientists obtain vial of Pfizer v4xin3 and find that 98-99%.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/07/10/graphene-oxide-in-pfizer-covid-19-vaccines-here-are-the-latest-unsupported-claims/?sh=540607e974d7

 

Please, can you share with us a link to the report from these alleged Spanish researchers? Or do they only publish their results via instagram?

 

[roo860]

13 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

his

Here is another of the physicians I mentioned, Christiane Northrup, you can't call her incompetent by looking at her CV. She has written several best-selling books and appeared on Oprah, won awards etc.

 

https://www.drnorthrup.com/about/

 

From the moment she started questioning the Covid narrative and vaccination (same as Tenpenny, by actually looking at some of the stuff that's in there and what it does to the body), she was immediately dropped, blacklisted, slandered, pressured. Something fishy going on there.

Appeared on Oprah!

????????????????????

[rattlesnake]

Just now, roo860 said:

Appeared on Oprah!

????????????????????

What I mean is she was as mainstream as one gets.

[rattlesnake]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You don't think someone who claims that a miniscule dose of vaccine can magnetize you is nuts? 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/07/10/graphene-oxide-in-pfizer-covid-19-vaccines-here-are-the-latest-unsupported-claims/?sh=540607e974d7

 

As for graphene dioxide...

"Yet, there are now claims circulating that the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine is around 99% graphene oxide. This despite the fact that graphene oxide does not appear on either the FDA or CDC list. For example, an Instagram post included the following statement: “99% Graphene Oxide in Pfizer V4X? Spanish scientists obtain vial of Pfizer v4xin3 and find that 98-99%.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/07/10/graphene-oxide-in-pfizer-covid-19-vaccines-here-are-the-latest-unsupported-claims/?sh=540607e974d7

 

Please, can you share with us a link to the report from these alleged Spanish researchers? Or do they only publish their results via instagram?

 

Laugh all you want, I am just trying to prevent people from hurting themselves badly. The Spanish study was performed by biostatistician Ricardo Delgado and Dr. José Luis Sevillano.

[placeholder]

23 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

his

Here is another of the physicians I mentioned, Christiane Northrup, you can't call her incompetent by looking at her CV. She has written several best-selling books and appeared on Oprah, won awards etc.

 

https://www.drnorthrup.com/about/

 

From the moment she started questioning the Covid narrative and vaccination (same as Tenpenny, by actually looking at some of the stuff that's in there and what it does to the body), she was immediately dropped, blacklisted, slandered, pressured. Something fishy going on there.

The fact that she has appeared frequently on the show of  that renowned scientist, Dr. Oprah Winfrey, and that she has best seller books, should clearly qualify her for a Nobel Prize.

Here is some more about Dr. Christiane Northrup:

 

"I watched a month-worth of her solo videos to better understand the world in which she lives. In this parallel universe, there are Indigo children, time travellers from the future, and geomancers performing acupuncture on Mother Earth by moving rocks around. She constantly tells her viewers, whom she calls “sleeping lions” and “warriors,” that they need to take action. That is when the supernatural forces of Providence will magically come in and take care of the rest, like the reinforcements who show up at the end of an action film just in the nick of time."

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking/doctor-carl-sagan-warned-us-about

[Scott]

Troll post reported and removed.  

 

[Yellowtail]

19 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You don't think someone who claims that a miniscule dose of vaccine can magnetize you is nuts? 

 

 

The President of the United States believes there's a great fairy in the sky that he'll get to meet with after he dies....

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Laugh all you want, I am just trying to prevent people from hurting themselves badly. The Spanish study was performed by biostatistician Ricardo Delgado and Dr. José Luis Sevillano.

"Online reports that COVID-19 vaccines contain graphene oxide are unfounded.

The allegations are based on an analysis by a professor in Spain which has been rejected by experts. He obtained what he himself described as non-conclusive results after studying one vial. He said the vial was purported to contain a dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine but said it had come to him by a messenger service and acknowledged that the vial’s origin was unknown."

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-grapheneoxide-vaccine/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-do-not-contain-graphene-oxide-idUSL1N2OZ14F

[rattlesnake]

Just now, placeholder said:

The fact that she has appeared frequently on the show of  that renowned scientist, Dr. Oprah Winfrey, and that she has best seller books, should clearly qualify her for a Nobel Prize.

Here is some more about Dr. Christiane Northrup:

 

"I watched a month-worth of her solo videos to better understand the world in which she lives. In this parallel universe, there are Indigo children, time travellers from the future, and geomancers performing acupuncture on Mother Earth by moving rocks around. She constantly tells her viewers, whom she calls “sleeping lions” and “warriors,” that they need to take action. That is when the supernatural forces of Providence will magically come in and take care of the rest, like the reinforcements who show up at the end of an action film just in the nick of time."

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking/doctor-carl-sagan-warned-us-about

You're completely missing the point, the fact that she regularly appeared on Oprah Winfrey's show means she was part of the establishment. Then she speaks up against Covid vaccines and she becomes a black sheep, that was the point I was making and it is a valid one.

And I have already said that there are countless character assassination articles about these doctors, no need to post them.

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

The President of the United States believes there's a great fairy in the sky that he'll get to meet with after he dies....

Which is a claim that is not within the province of science to prove or disprove.

But that a tiny dose of vaccine can magnetize a human being is obviously a claim that is utterly with a scientific understanding of magnetism.

See the difference?

[rattlesnake]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

"Online reports that COVID-19 vaccines contain graphene oxide are unfounded.

The allegations are based on an analysis by a professor in Spain which has been rejected by experts. He obtained what he himself described as non-conclusive results after studying one vial. He said the vial was purported to contain a dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine but said it had come to him by a messenger service and acknowledged that the vial’s origin was unknown."

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-grapheneoxide-vaccine/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-do-not-contain-graphene-oxide-idUSL1N2OZ14F

If you think Reuters is a trustworthy source, then you are right to follow it. We all make our choices based on our free will and appreciation. Good luck to you.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Which is a claim that is not within the province of science to prove or disprove.

But that a tiny dose of vaccine can magnetize a human being is obviously a claim that is utterly with a scientific understanding of magnetism.

See the difference?

My only point was that a lot of people believe a lot of things that that aren't true. It does not mean everything they believe is not true. 

 

If the magnetism were psychological rather that physiological I would think it possible. Do a hit of acid....