Thai's Respect For Old Age

[qwertz]

You tell 'em Nignoy. How's it going?

IMO, old things acquire a certain intrinsic value.

Cars, musical instruments, houses, wines - just to name a few.

It's getting more and more difficult to set a value on oldsters, a great pity that they're looked on with scorn by the young.

But everyone's good looks are bound to fade and we'll all end looking roughly the same when we're being fed from spoons.

Until then though, we oldsters have got the edge - terrabytes of memory, experience and stored information.

Which in many cases (mine too) we're still charging for.

And we acquire the ability to think both from above and below the waist.

Great, innit?

[Jet Gorgon]

Sukanya can be 99.125

[Old Croc]

Hi

Just watched a programme on BBC2 about how the elderly are treated in the UK.

Bottom line was once you can't work and pay your way you are deemed worthless by this government and society in general.

Makes me think how lucky I am to have a Thai family with their respect and attitude to old age.

But the UK OAP's are fighting back see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqfFrCUrEbY

TBWG

I posted the same Youtube link in the "Pub" section a few days ago TBWG.

Die before I get Old

It garnered little interest and despite my obvious dotage, I received no respect at all from a certain Thai based member in particular.

All he posted was a series of spiteful dressing downs for my temerity in posting a link which cannot be viewed by most in Thailand.

I am glad you were better able to show the message that OAP's do still possess wit and humour.

[j_cheung]

This column reminds me of that ol' Lennon & McCartney song:

When I get older losing my hair

many years from now

will you still be sending me a valentine

birthday greeting, bottle of wine

If I'd been out till quarter to three

would you lock the door

Will you still need me

Will you still feed me

When I'm sixty-four

Cheers,

[TBWG]

Hi

Just watched a programme on BBC2 about how the elderly are treated in the UK.

Bottom line was once you can't work and pay your way you are deemed worthless by this government and society in general.

Makes me think how lucky I am to have a Thai family with their respect and attitude to old age.

But the UK OAP's are fighting back see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqfFrCUrEbY

TBWG

I posted the same Youtube link in the "Pub" section a few days ago TBWG.

Die before I get Old

It garnered little interest and despite my obvious dotage, I received no respect at all from a certain Thai based member in particular.

All he posted was a series of spiteful dressing downs for my temerity in posting a link which cannot be viewed by most in Thailand.

I am glad you were better able to show the message that OAP's do still possess wit and humour.

Hi Old Croc

Thanks for posting, Following your info I am not sure if my link to the video can be viewed in LOS

However I would strongly recommend a viewing and there are masses of options if you just google The Zimmers my generation.

Enjoy

TBWG

[GuestHouse]

Off we go again with wild generalizations, always good food for the trolls and not least of all the East/West Bashers.

Let’s try and apply a bit of thought to this.

Firstly taking care of the elderly within families is a truly admirable trait for any society – It is a trait found in many Societies, Thailand is one such society, Italy is another.

However, let’s not get carried away here.

Not all westerners disrespect the aged or fail to take care of the aged in their own family, and obviously not all families in Thailand/Italy look after their aged while not all Thais/Italians respect the aged.

But there is here a significant difference.

If you are old in Thailand and unable to look after yourself, you’d either better have money or you are in a hopeless situation. Worse still, having money may compound your problems if through senility or illness you are unable to attend to your financial and/or legal affairs. Thailand has virtually no social safety net for the old – AND ABSOLUTELY NON FOR FOREIGNERS.

This is not so of the west, certainly not so of Europe, where we have social services, medical care and structured legal systems all tailored for the care and protection of vulnerable people, including the aged.

In that respect we can very well argue that Western Societal values towards the old are a commendable example of what can and, I would argue, ought to be achieved.

Now I understand the arguments that welfare provisions might be a root cause of the disconnect between families and their aged, the thinking being ‘lets dump granny on the state’.

But I would also argue there is another side of the coin.

I’ve often commented that I believe the ‘Dependence’ culture within Thai families is not exactly as healthy as it is portrayed – More ‘Guilt and Manipulation’ than ‘Care and Consideration. That I think is a separate debate.

But consider this.

The aged among us, and those that are fast heading that way, enjoy a huge amount of independence. That is no accident. It is part of the trade off, we are independent of our children, they are independent of us.

You can see the reverse happening within Thai families, mum, dad, granny or whoever, while admirably within the family is continually reminded of their dependence.

My wife and I had a huge row over this when she commented on my mother, who is 15 years older than her mother (and twice a survivor of cancer), is never at home. Either out socializing or frequently away traveling – last year back packing in India with her 76 year old neighbor. She then added ‘my mum is too old’ to do things by herself.

My comment, and the one that caused the row was, your mother doesn’t do anything for her self, because between you, you don’t let her do anything for herself.

This is not untypical of Thai ‘Respect and love of the aged’ but is it a good thing?

To my thinking the cage is gilded, but it is still a cage.

And then there is something else.

Thais see everything with respect to their own family, it would be foolish to consider that they regard the misfortunes, struggles of other family’s old people in the way they do those of their own aged.

This and the fact that there is NO SAFETY NET FOR FOREIGNERS IN THAILAND should not be forgotten.

Very many old people in Thailand live in deplorable poverty, with no access to health care. The absence of trust law and a reliable legal system leave others at the mercy of thieves at a time in life when they are unable to protect their own interests.

Look around Thailand, and in particular Pattaya, and ask yourself, how many of the old foreigners in Thailand have thought that out.

Foreign retirement communities in Spain are already facing huge welfare problems, and that despite there is welfare and healthcare for the old available.

One of my other frequent comments.

Don’t knock the west, you’ll be running back there if life in Thailand goes to rat sh1t.

Decrepit old age is one such reason to head home - Don't rule it out.

Edited May 31, 2007 by GuestHouse

[Skyline]

GuestHouse really bores me,he knows eveything.

[Nignoy]

Off we go again with wild generalizations, always good food for the trolls and not least of all the East/West Bashers.

Let’s try and apply a bit of thought to this.

Firstly taking care of the elderly within families is a truly admirable trait for any society – It is a trait found in many Societies, Thailand is one such society, Italy is another.

However, let’s not get carried away here.

Not all westerners disrespect the aged or fail to take care of the aged in their own family, and obviously not all families in Thailand/Italy look after their aged while not all Thais/Italians respect the aged.

But there is here a significant difference.

If you are old in Thailand and unable to look after yourself, you’d either better have money or you are in a hopeless situation. Worse still, having money may compound your problems if through senility or illness you are unable to attend to your financial and/or legal affairs. Thailand has virtually no social safety net for the old – AND ABSOLUTELY NON FOR FOREIGNERS.

This is not so of the west, certainly not so of Europe, where we have social services, medical care and structured legal systems all tailored for the care and protection of vulnerable people, including the aged.

In that respect we can very well argue that Western Societal values towards the old are a commendable example of what can and, I would argue, ought to be achieved.

Now I understand the arguments that welfare provisions might be a root cause of the disconnect between families and their aged, the thinking being ‘lets dump granny on the state’.

But I would also argue there is another side of the coin.

I’ve often commented that I believe the ‘Dependence’ culture within Thai families is not exactly as healthy as it is portrayed – More ‘Guilt and Manipulation’ than ‘Care and Consideration. That I think is a separate debate.

But consider this.

The aged among us, and those that are fast heading that way, enjoy a huge amount of independence. That is no accident. It is part of the trade off, we are independent of our children, they are independent of us.

You can see the reverse happening within Thai families, mum, dad, granny or whoever, while admirably within the family is continually reminded of their dependence.

My wife and I had a huge row over this when she commented on my mother, who is 15 years older than her mother (and twice a survivor of cancer), is never at home. Either out socializing or frequently away traveling – last year back packing in India with her 76 year old neighbor. She then added ‘my mum is too old’ to do things by herself.

My comment, and the one that caused the row was, your mother doesn’t do anything for her self, because between you, you don’t let her do anything for herself.

This is not untypical of Thai ‘Respect and love of the aged’ but is it a good thing?

To my thinking the cage is gilded, but it is still a cage.

And then there is something else.

Thais see everything with respect to their own family, it would be foolish to consider that they regard the misfortunes, struggles of other family’s old people in the way they do those of their own aged.

This and the fact that there is NO SAFETY NET FOR FOREIGNERS IN THAILAND should not be forgotten.

Very many old people in Thailand live in deplorable poverty, with no access to health care. The absence of trust law and a reliable legal system leave others at the mercy of thieves at a time in life when they are unable to protect their own interests.

Look around Thailand, and in particular Pattaya, and ask yourself, how many of the old foreigners in Thailand have thought that out.

Foreign retirement communities in Spain are already facing huge welfare problems, and that despite there is welfare and healthcare for the old available.

One of my other frequent comments.

Don’t knock the west, you’ll be running back there if life in Thailand goes to rat sh1t.

Decrepit old age is one such reason to head home - Don't rule it out.

I am a disabled british war pensioner, my wife and I try to spend 6 months a year in Australia and 6months in thailand, I was severely injured in active service for my country, left to suffer in pain for over 30 years, because the operation to remove the offending piece of shrapnel was deemed not financially viable by the National Health in England, It was removed here in australia in day surgery, but because of the lapse in time irrepairable damage was done to my spine,Dont talk to me about care for the elderly care, over the last 10 years since we left UK , we have lost many elderly friends and relatives through govt negligence and lack of palliative care.We understand you need sufficient funds or secure medical insurance, to live out the twilight of your life somewhere nice and warm, at least most of us who choose thailand, are treated with respect, and not ignored and treated like 3rd world citizens in our socalled home countries. We intend to grow old disgracefully, Spend the kids inheritance!! just a warning if you see 2 teletubbies in black Belstaffs riding a green 650 BSA and a grey and silver 600 Norton Dominator in Rawai, OUT OF THE WAY Its Mr and Mrs Nignoy just Cruisin Nignoy

[Jet Gorgon]

Ya gotta love Nignoy.

[mrt273nva]

I'm getting tired of being called "boy" by YOU PEOPLE. Either learn some manners or maybe the mods will do their jobs. What do you say moderators?

wasn't aware that calling someone "boy" was against the TV rules... if that is the case then "YOU PEOPLE" in capital letters can't be too far off.

(sorry for being off topic but his comment annoyed me.)

[Jet Gorgon]

I'm getting tired of being called "boy" by YOU PEOPLE. Either learn some manners or maybe the mods will do their jobs. What do you say moderators?

wasn't aware that calling someone "boy" was against the TV rules... if that is the case then "YOU PEOPLE" in capital letters can't be too far off.

(sorry for being off topic but his comment annoyed me.)

You are right, Mrt. But careful, we might get a rule change, you person, you.

[sukanyacondo]

Sukanya can be 99.125

I will have to have some time to think about this?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

ok xx gufffffffffffffaw

[sukanyacondo]

Blimey thats buggered up the page!!

[sukanyacondo]

"My wife and I had a huge row over this when she commented on my mother, who is 15 years older than her mother (and twice a survivor of cancer), is never at home. Either out socializing or frequently away traveling – last year back packing in India with her 76 year old neighbor. She then added ‘my mum is too old’ to do things by herself.

My comment, and the one that caused the row was, your mother doesn’t do anything for her self, because between you, you don’t let her do anything for herself. "

My wife was amazed at the "age" of my parents and what they still do. "oh my god dear they so strong" she says just beacsue they still drive a car at 79 years old and my Mum often travels to Italy alone to see firends etc

[thaibebop]

I like this about Thais as well, yet it might lead to problems later. I really want my wife to take care of her parents when they need it, yet we are in America and they are in Thailand. They dislike America and while we would be glad to go there I worry about my daughter getting too attached to America. Then the question of making them come here or making my kids go there comes up. Rough patch ahead, eh?

[TBWG]

TBWG: that gentleman is 100? I read about another 100-yr-old in the UK who is still working in the plumbing trade; he was miffed when he had to stay home until he could get an ingrown toenail treated. That's two off the pensions list.

Hi JG

They are the same person "Buster" as he is called works for Pimlico Plumbers looking after the company vehicles.

He is now 100+

TBWG

[Jet Gorgon]

TBWG: that gentleman is 100? I read about another 100-yr-old in the UK who is still working in the plumbing trade; he was miffed when he had to stay home until he could get an ingrown toenail treated. That's two off the pensions list.

Hi JG

They are the same person "Buster" as he is called works for Pimlico Plumbers looking after the company vehicles.

He is now 100+

TBWG

? So the gent in the vid is Buster?

I might need to ask 99.125 to take the case as 86 and I am am another mission called Get Beer.

[TBWG]

TBWG: that gentleman is 100? I read about another 100-yr-old in the UK who is still working in the plumbing trade; he was miffed when he had to stay home until he could get an ingrown toenail treated. That's two off the pensions list.

Hi JG

They are the same person "Buster" as he is called works for Pimlico Plumbers looking after the company vehicles.

He is now 100+

TBWG

? So the gent in the vid is Buster?

I might need to ask 99.125 to take the case as 86 and I am am another mission called Get Beer.

Hi

Blatant attempt to get this back on front page

Buster Martin, puts his good health down to plenty of red meat and beer! He started drinking and smoking at the age of 7 whilst in an orphanage. He also made the news recently by fighting off 3 muggers with karate moves he learnt whilst he was a physical training instructor in the army.

He also has 17 children the eldest is 86 year old Roberto.

Bet he has a few tales to tell.

TBWG

[chuchok]

I've always been amazed at how many western people treat their parents.As soon as it gets a little hard for them,it's off to a retirement home.i'd call it selfish.The same people that love them,bring them into the world and give them a start in life...and then it's a big "up yours",because they don't want to be inconvenienced.

[Jet Gorgon]

Buster Martin, puts his good health down to plenty of red meat and beer! He started drinking and smoking at the age of 7 whilst in an orphanage. He also made the news recently by fighting off 3 muggers with karate moves he learnt whilst he was a physical training instructor in the army.

He also has 17 children the eldest is 86 year old Roberto.

Bet he has a few tales to tell.

TBWG

There's hope for us all yet. Great story.

True, Chuchok, I agree with you about the old folks homes here, but I also know many seniors who would be horrified to lose that last thread of freedom that their own home affords them, even if it's a small flat. Also, many of their children work, which means there would be no-one to look after them if they were sick. But true, sometimes they forget to visit and take care with attention and affection. Still, I'd rather be in my own placee rather than be a hindrance or be treated as an unwelcomed guest, which I also see with multi-generation homes.

[chuchok]

Buster Martin, puts his good health down to plenty of red meat and beer! He started drinking and smoking at the age of 7 whilst in an orphanage. He also made the news recently by fighting off 3 muggers with karate moves he learnt whilst he was a physical training instructor in the army.

He also has 17 children the eldest is 86 year old Roberto.

Bet he has a few tales to tell.

TBWG

There's hope for us all yet. Great story.

True, Chuchok, I agree with you about the old folks homes here, but I also know many seniors who would be horrified to lose that last thread of freedom that their own home affords them, even if it's a small flat. Also, many of their children work, which means there would be no-one to look after them if they were sick. But true, sometimes they forget to visit and take care with attention and affection. Still, I'd rather be in my own placee rather than be a hindrance or be treated as an unwelcomed guest, which I also see with multi-generation homes.

hire a nurse...gotto be cheaper than bunging them in a retirement home.

[Nignoy]

Bugger going into an old peoples Home Join Ulysses thats the name of our over 55,s Bikers club in Australia, me and the mrs 64 and 62 years of age are the youngest in our 130 strong chapter, when we get to old for biking then we join the Grey Nomads and buy a motorhome,when we cant ride and drive anymore, there is a funeral pyre in yasothon province with our name on it and a niche in the wall of the village wat, and then we will see if the next life is as full of joy as this one has been Nignoy