Streetsmarts - How To Acquire Some

[soundman]

Soundman, I've already drafted a trilogy for the German market.

Do you reckon it would sell?

Depends on the title really..

"Triple S - Sun, Sex & Scams in LOS"

Should go down well with the German market.

Soundman.

[qwertz]

Funny you should say that, soundman.

It's 3xS in German too - Sonne, Sex & Schikane.

Now you've got me thinking.

[Pepe']

Rain, I can't remember what thread, it was back in my newbie days (or am I still a newbie?).

Anyway, I apologised with my usual poetic flair and I think pepe, thaigoon and one or two others have forgiven my acerbic comments.

Not sure about terry though, must stand him a drink some time to atone.

Go easy on MTW, I worry about her.

BTW, I take it you've been scolded too?

----------------------------------

Hey I got yer' atone right here!!!

What were we talking about?

[qwertz]

Yes, pepe, we rattled a few cages back then didn't we?

I'm borderline civil now.

I think I remember now, wasn't it some bun fight about old farts?

Come to think of it, some of the usual suspects are quiet these days.

Hope they're out getting some new streetsmarts, I'm running out of material for my book.

Meanwhile, as we speak, ever more cunning scams are being perpetrated on unsuspecting tourists.

[coldcrush]

Guide to a fairly normal and happy existence in Thailand.

In a fairly rough order:

Avoid lower sukhumvit in BKK

Avoid Nana.

Avoid Soi Cowboy.

Avoid Pattaya.

Avoid Patpong.

Avoid Patong Beach in Phuket.

Don't buy a beer bar.

Don't think with your penis.

If you are paying for it.....well.....really be prepared to pay for it.....

Don't ride in a Tuk Tuk.

Never get in a taxi that is parked, with its engines off.

The meters always work.

Look like you know where you are going.

Know that normal Thai's NEVER approach anyone to practice their english.

The grand palace is never closed.

If you wouldn't do it at home, then don't do it here.

If none of the above seems sensible and logical to you...then Cambodia awaits you with open arms.

If you have a Gik your Wife is doing something wrong.

The day after meeting a girl dont enter a gold shop.

[blizzard]

but if you dont go to gold shop you lose your girl which is obviously different from all the rest....................lol.

or if you have a gik you should have never married in the first place.

Edited June 10, 2007 by blizzard

[November Rain]

Rain, I can't remember what thread, it was back in my newbie days (or am I still a newbie?).

Anyway, I apologised with my usual poetic flair and I think pepe, thaigoon and one or two others have forgiven my acerbic comments.

Not sure about terry though, must stand him a drink some time to atone.

Go easy on MTW, I worry about her.

BTW, I take it you've been scolded too?

You talkin to me, boy? Ya, I hurled some unbridled fury, which I thought was justified at the time (it was the wine, officer!).

MTW is a lady? We must protect the ladies here; not many as you know.

Good thread, Gwertz. I guess I have streetsmarts; my advice is to always be on the alert, because you never know what could happen. But, I've been swindled more than a few times, too, and expect to be done again before I pass on. Part of life, init?

Swindled?

Me too!

Not too often but big time.

But not in Thailand and not by Thais.

Because they learned most of their trickery from us.

And we only have ladies on this on this board, just not enough of them, IMO.

I've beeen catching your act, you're good at pushing buttons, keep up the good work.

5555555!

I changed my avatar, because I kept getting mistaken for Jet. She never told me that she'd been mistaken for me, as well!

Streetsmarts? Hmmm; think, analyse tricky situations, don't trust everybody you meet (in fact, don't trust anybody until they've proved themselves), and accept that you're (by this I mean you, I, everyone) not nearly as clever as you think you are - so you probably will fall prey to some scam or other, hopefully a minor one.

[qwertz]

Quote Rain: and accept that you're (by this I mean you, I, everyone) not nearly as clever as you think you are - so you probably will fall prey to some scam or other, hopefully a minor one.

The above is so relevant, I've been in trouble a time or two through thinking I already knew it all.

Rain, please accept my humble apology for confusing you with with Jet, it's my age you know.

But at least my comment was favourable and applicable to both of you.

I'll check out your input more closely in future.

[torito]

The above is so relevant, I've been in trouble a time or two through thinking I already knew it all.

This has been also my trouble 'qwertz', until I realize that great part of what I knew, it was completly wrong! ...nothing harder for one's ego that having to learn life lessons!

Edited June 10, 2007 by torito

[Pepe']

Yes, pepe, we rattled a few cages back then didn't we?

I'm borderline civil now.

I think I remember now, wasn't it some bun fight about old farts?

Come to think of it, some of the usual suspects are quiet these days.

Hope they're out getting some new streetsmarts, I'm running out of material for my book.

Meanwhile, as we speak, ever more cunning scams are being perpetrated on unsuspecting tourists.

------------------------------

Quiet indeed...

[canadiangirl]

Wow, there's some crazy stories on this thread!

I ran with a rough crowd for a while as a teenager, so I generally feel pretty good in the street smarts department. I don't mean to make light of anyone, but to me all the tuk-tuk, gem scam, suits stuff seemed pretty obvious to avoid, even when I had just arrived in Bangkok.

What tripped me up a lot more was when I started making friends with Thai people. As a Canadian, I wanted to be open-minded and sensitive to Thai culture (to avoid the "boorish American abroad" stereotypes us Canadians are so afraid of :-P but also sometimes things would happen that I would find offensive or confusing and I wouldn't know what to do. I found it hard to interpret people's actions.

My best friend in Canada is Chinese, born in HK, and we often have huge misunderstanding based on culture. For example, he told me in Chinese culture you express the fact that you care about someone by bossing them around --- which drives me crazy because it feels really overbearing. But my way of showing that I care about him, trying to respect him, saying "ok, well you can do it your way" -- feels to him like

I'm abandoning him! It took forever to figure out that this was going on!

So I often wondered with my Thai friends is I didn't have huge misunderstandings like this going on sometimes. Or if a friend did something that I'd interpret in Canada as just being an ######, maybe it didn't necessarily mean a bad motive in Thailand? I found it hard to know who to trust.

Does anyone else find it difficult to navigate friendships with Thais sometimes? How do you deal with it?

[qwertz]

Welcome to the board CG.

The only thing approaching Thai friends that I have after many years of living in or visiting LOS are the people I've known a long time, such as at the family hotel where I stay in Phuket or my short list of hotels in Pattaya.

They welcome me when I'm there as a paying guest but I rarely socialise with Thais as I'm sure to be picking up the bill at the end of the day.

Not that I mind that, so long as I make the invitation; then I'm aware of the custom.

I've never been seriously scammed there but I know many people, especially farang women who've been burned.

The people they thought were friends turned out to be just passengers on the gravy train.

And not all the scammers are Thai.

The input here should help the unaware to sharpen up their radar.

Edited June 17, 2007 by qwertz

[canadiangirl]

Not that I mind that, so long as I make the invitation; then I'm aware of the custom.

I've never been seriously scammed there but I know many people, especially farang women who've been burned.

The people they thought were friends turned out to be passengers on the gravy train.

And not all the scammers are Thai.

Thanks for the warning qwertz! Can you give me some examples? I hear lots of stories about bargirls running away with men's money, and I think I can avoid most tuk-tuk type scams, but I haven't heard lots of stories about farang women getting into trouble. So I'm definitely curious if there's anything in particular I should watch out for.

Edited June 17, 2007 by canadiangirl

[mikalmus]

MTW, I'm sorry you had to go through all of that but I find it difficult to believe you haven't been burned before in life since you are very naive. Perhaps I'm mistaking trusting with naive but sometimes they can be the same. People who display wealth noticibly above that of those around him is opening themselves up for abuse, combine that with your obviously trusting nature and what you have is your situation. Perhaps you grew up where you never had somebody take advantage of you but this isn't specific to Thailand.

[qwertz]

CG, it's easy to generalise but basically the scams are much more concentrated in tourist spots, just like anywhere else in the world.

I won't generalise and say that women are more gullible than men but many seem to follow heart instead of gut feeling.

As a woman, you'll find that many people are, on the surface, very open and eager to befriend you.

That's where the ability to judge objectively is put to the test.

Beware of invitations to dinner, parties and excursions, especially from Thais.

They're likely to bring the whole family - and you pay.

I know some people on the board will say not all Thais are like that, and this is also true.

But the practice is prevalent, despite what they say.

The same advice applies to the farangs who are out to sponge; they're especially plausible and friendly.

Just keep a tight hold on your purse and your natural caution or you'll soon finish up broke.

This is not LOS bashing, the same advice applies anywhere until you learn the local interpretation of scamming.

[MTW]

To CG: I am the poster child on this website apparently, for women who have gotten screwed out of a lot of money, from all sorts of people, in all sorts of ways. If you go back through my posts you can read about it.

And exactly what you said, that you read about bargirls, and romantic situations being the main cause of a lot of problems for farangs, and like you, I supposed, since I didn't get involved in any of those things I thought stupidly that I was somewhat immune to big problems here.

Hiding how much money you have, as some have suggested I did not do, can be helpful. I however, did not flash money here, did not wear any jewelry or only cheap things bought here most of the time, I never told people how much money I earned in my previous life, how much my house cost in LA (although I was asked about 1000 times), but some things cannot be hidden if you want to live according to your ability, and Thai people are always trying to figure out what that is. I can't tell you how many times I have been driven to a house I lived in by a tuk-tuk, and then asked how much I pay for rent. This alone will give people the idea that you are very rich, unless you are living very frugally, in a studio room for example.

By this I mean that Thai people usually manage to spend very little for housing, either because they live with family, or that they pay the real Thai rents, not farang inflated rents for the same thing, and just because of what they are used to. As a western person I am used to spending a huge portion of my income on rent or a house payment. I think most farangs can spend a third to half of what they have each month. Thai people don't usually do this. They might have 100,000 baht a month of income and still only spend 2000 a month for their rent, and spend the rest on a car, on whiskey, on other status symbols. I don't know any western people who spent more for drinking than on their home. But many people do here.

In my opinion, this alone leads them to believe the wrong idea about us. If they spend 2000 a month for a room, and buy cars worth 3 million baht, and buy a bottle of at least Red Label whiskey, and go out every night of their lives, they obviously are spending more for going out and drinking than their home. I don't know any people in LA, or Paris, or New York, all places I lived, who will outspend their rent on a nightly basis for this kind of thing.

So my idea is that they think if my rent is 20 or 30,000 a month, I must be able to spend that much each day of the month on other (more important in their idea) things.

In general I would try to realize, that Thai people can get commission on almost anything and everything you do. Once you know this, even if you don't believe people would take that money, try to believe that they will take the money, they are not just doing you nice favors to help you out, and when you are trying to pay kindness back, with paying for things for them, you will just be paying even more to the already inflated price you are paying so that they can get the commission.

Thai people don't seem to think anything is wrong with the commission system, even though they are smart enough to keep it a secret as best they can from farangs. I also, wouldn't have a big problem with it, if my friends said to me "hey, if you want to rent a house, I can help you, but let me tell you that I will be getting a least a month's rent from the owner for doing this and because of this, I may not lead you to the house that is best for you, or help you get the lowest price possible, but if you take me along to look with you, I'll share some of the money with you" or at least drive you for free in my own car and not expect you to pay for the gas, won't want you to buy me lunch, and then accept an expensive gift for helping you out.

As well, the mistake I made, was thinking that Thai people were so kind and generous to be willing to help me so much, and gave them credit for being great people when in fact it was only business. Therefore I went way out of my way to be a great friend back.

But some problems here can go beyond people trying to help you, they are just the normal business way here which is to promise everything, take your money, and do nothing or very little after that.

I don't say this about all Thai people, but that you should look out for this. If people really have a reason to be interested in you like family, they won't do this. But don't mistake being called "sister" as being one of their good friends or anywhere near family.

Re the normal business way here is this example: Go try to buy car insurance somewhere and tell them you only have a license from your own country. Am I covered? YES. What about an Int'l license, am I covered? YES. Ask any question you want and then just know that the answer will be YES, or at worst, NO PROBLEM. Then, have a problem, go try to collect. Not covered because you don't have a Thai D/L. I was told I wasn't covered for a flood that happened at my house, with my car parked in the driveway. Did my lack of driving skills cause the flood? Luckily, by then I had a Thai D/L but they made me take it to the office about 10 times to copy it (again) hoping they would get lucky and could deny me if I couldn't come up with it. Then they denied me for other reasons.

This is a small example, but when the total stranger you are asking the questions to, can lie, and make 100 baht extra, they do not care that the lie might cost you 1 or 2 million baht, and know we cannot read the contract. And when push comes to shove, WHO told you that, well, get the person here, then they lie again and say they told you everything that was true. Will your new Thai friend read the contract and tell you the truth, NO, because maybe the salesperson is giving them 50 baht from their 100 baht profit, and they also don't care what happens to you later. Or maybe they are just too lazy, or maybe they don't want to tell you "something you don't want to hear that will make you unhappy" or maybe they believe due to their religious convictions that if you get in an accident and are not insured like you thought you were, well, you were probably a bad person in your last life and deserve it.

Who knows, but you have to be able to take into consideration things that never happen anywhere you have lived before, that many people have to be in on it, to lie to you this way, and that is hard to believe, etc.

I had a lady that I know for a long time, tell me that she would like to help me in my upcoming move to my new house. I don't know how to take that. Does that mean she is looking for work and wants to help me for pay? If so, I will happily help her earn money and give her some work. Is she just being nice because she knows me a long time? Is she thinking that if she helps me for free (which I don't need any help, or free help) that I will trust her, and she will make money someday later from me? All I know, is it is best to thank her and forget about it, because the possible problems are too many, unless she can say to me she needs work and wants to get paid.

It is difficult here to say the least, there are nice Thai people, but they need a reason to help you where money is involved. This isn't to say, that if your car broke on the side of a highway, that Thai people wouldn't stop and help you for free, likely they would. But just as likely, some real friend of yours, when you go to rent a car while your car is being repaired, will get some commission from it, even though the guy on the highway who picked you up and drove you home wouldn't accept payment for that.

I am sorry, in advance, to those people who don't like my posts because I write too much.

[Robski]

Sorry to say this MTW, but GET OVER IT!

This whole thing about 'the commission system' is rubbish, basically this is what people are telling you to justify 'stealing' your money,

I'm sure you've heard the phrase 'a fool and his money are soon parted' or 'more money than sense'.

Do you think normal people on average incomes pay a 'commission' to a person just for a bit of advice or service?

They are taxing you because you have money and you are a pushover, are, have been, where.

You claim this is in the past and you are wise to it now, but you are obviously still bitter about it,

and now completely paranoid about any approach by Thais to help you.

You've still got your teeth, all your limbs and money in your pocket, things could be worse.

Maybe you should get away from it all for a while and get things into perspective.

Edited June 17, 2007 by Robski

[qwertz]

Some valid points from you and MTW, Robski.

But I don't think people there do mention commission out loud; they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.

By the same rule, it wasn't irrelevant for MTW to explain it in some detail to CG who was after all asking for such input.

I could quote some examples too but they're not as relevant as MTW's if CG should plan to live there and pick up some smarts in advance.

[endure]

In my opinion, this alone leads them to believe the wrong idea about us. If they spend 2000 a month for a room, and buy cars worth 3 million baht, and buy a bottle of at least Red Label whiskey, and go out every night of their lives, they obviously are spending more for going out and drinking than their home. I don't know any people in LA, or Paris, or New York, all places I lived, who will outspend their rent on a nightly basis for this kind of thing.

If you asked the average Thai (sweeping generalisation alert) if they'd rather have:

1. A good time

2. A big house

they'd choose number 1 every time.

Thailand is NOT LA, Paris or New York and you do yourself a major disservice by comparing it with any of them.

[MTW]

Robski,

Yes, I could be called bitter about it. I could be called bitter about my terrible divorce and the various ways my cheating husband, besides only cheating on me, looked to steal money for what he knew was an upcoming divorce, for years in advance, because he was greedy and splitting things 50/50 according to the law where we lived, was not good enough for him, so he looked, and planned for a few years, how to best manage our divorce so that is was financially better for him than sharing 50/50. It didn't matter to him that I had all the money to buy the business we owned, that I improved the business to huge extents which made big money for us, even that it was my idea to buy the business. All he could see was the money and how he would like to think it was all his and if I would kindly die so he could get it all, and he could go off with his numerous affairs afterwards, he would be happy.

Have I not seen bitter farang men on these websites about their divorces? So what?

I am not, however, just getting on to this website and leaving one line comments about how "all Thai people will rip you off, so be careful" am I? I am writing out the situations that happened to me, so that any people, might be able to recognize the same things happening to them.

"Do normal people on average incomes pay a commission for just a bit of advise or service" Probably, but probably you are not aware of it.

Let me be sure to correct you here: I NEVER PAID COMMISSION TO ANYONE. The shops I went to, paid the percentage and charged me more to pay for it, or couldn't give me a discount because of it, whatever way you like to think about it. AND I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT.

I would say that at least 90% of the farangs who live here, and think nobody they knew ever got commission, you are just fooling yourselves. Maybe the "nice Thai girl" you found for yourself, who didn't ask you for money the first two months,so that gave you the idea that she was a nice Thai girl, didn't ask you because she was making bucketloads already, but you just have never figured it out. Since that girl is now your wife you haven't been inclined to go back over your first transactions and have a Thai person ask those people if someone ever got some percentage??

And I would dispute that "Thai people are telling me this to justify stealing my money" as they never told me this, but in fact lead me to believe they were doing this out of the goodness of their wonderful Thai hearts, but yes, in fact, "they were stealing my money" you are correct 100%.

And according to you "I still have my teeth, and all my limbs, and money in my pocket" therefore why should I care??? Do you really think I deserved to lose those things and ALL my money before I get angry???? How do you know I still have money in my pocket???????

The people who stole money from me also still have their teeth, all their limbs, and money every two weeks to buy numerous lotterty tickets, and pay for UBC which they never had before, and pay for cosmetic surgeries, which they never had money for before, and own a business, that they never had money for before, and have whiskey every night to drink, which I don't do, smoke cigs every day and night that I don't do, they have bought more TVs and DVD players, and new cell phones, that someone with a very large 6 figure USD income doesn't feel I have enough money for, besides the fact that I could care less about this stupid crap. I am not wearing new clothes and shoes every time I see them, as they are, but cannot pay me back even 1% of the money I loaned them a month. I also never have bought a lottery ticket in my life.

Are you trying to prove, as others on this website have, that I must deserve it????

That if I have more money than Thai people, I should give it all to them????? Do you think I am actually the Red Cross here in Asia and people deserve my money? Just because they have less than me???? Let me give you an example of why I don't think they deserve my money. For example, besides that I already said I don't gamble and every Thai person who has gotten unworthy money from me does regularly, I also don't go buy sunglasses worth more than 2 or 3 months of my rent or housepayments. Have these Thai people, who are borrowing money, buying lottery tickets, paying for UBC each month, AFTER I loaned them some money, how they are doing all of that? But they didn't have it before? Yes. Do I also find that they are paying 6000 baht for a pair of sunglasses???? That they WILL NOT wear a jean that is not imported and costs less than 3000 baht or is given to them for free??

You know the main bitch Thai woman who scammed me out of so much money, also scammed the hotel she was working in, out of many commssions she wasn't due, did fake paperwork to get paid for things that never happened. Did her Thai boss and owner of the hotel, was he just too stupid and naive, or deserved it?

Do you think she is a good person when I tell you that she has a 10 year old daugher, that lives in the country with her 80 year old parents, and from what she told me, she never sends money to them, has visited the kid one time in three years??? Even though she was jobless for a year and owns a business now,and her Thai b/f is happy to recieve the kid? Do you think she is a good person when she burns money for stupid things for herself, and then sends her daughter only gifts that I have bought the kid??

Maybe she is a liar, maybe she sends them 20,000 a month, I don't know, but I think she would be more inclined to lie that she does more, rather than she does the least.

However, why from my western culture, should I be able to figure out all the bullshit that happens here, who is telling lies, what those lies might be, etc, when nobody I have ever dealt with is this dubious. And I am a deserving jerk when I try to help some people out, and they turn out to be idiots. Do you call the Red Cross an idiot because some people have managed to lie and get money they were not deserving of according to their standards? Or do you think they are just liable to fall down sometimes because of liars??

Maybe you should look back on your Thai life, and see that you paid more than you should have sometimes. If you are one of the few that didn't pay too much for anything, maybe you should thank your lucky stars and donate some money to reliable charities to make up for it. And maybe you should not blame nice people as being idiots when we were being nice people and didn't understand that social obligations mean nothing here, and certain people will get all they can out of you.

[MTW]

To endure,

You are 100% correct. Sorry I was writing my last post while you were writing this one. However, being raised to be socially correct in the cities you listed, does nothing for someone trying to understand the culture in Thailand. Too bad because you might think that having the social and/or business skills to get you along in those places might give you a benefit in Thailand, but to my mind, it only can only make you more confused and acutally not one of those experiences will help you here.

[endure]

Maybe you should look back on your Thai life, and see that you paid more than you should have sometimes. If you are one of the few that didn't pay too much for anything, maybe you should thank your lucky stars and donate some money to reliable charities to make up for it. And maybe you should not blame nice people as being idiots when we were being nice people and didn't understand that social obligations mean nothing here, and certain people will get all they can out of you.

On the contrary, social obligations mean EVERYTHING here - they're just not the social obligations that are applicable in Europe or the USA. As the man said 'This ain't Kansas, Tonto' and the sooner you get used to that fact the happier (and the richer) you will be.

[MTW]

Well edure you are 50% right at least in this situation. Social obligations and any obligations, favors, money spent, mean something to Thai people when done by other Thai people, or done by the few farangs here who also have clout outside of their money.

I cannot call on old cronies of my rich father in Thailand to help me smooth problems in Thailand for me, or for other people here, as my rich father isn't Thai, but is American. I cannot call old highschool mates of mine to help me here, since I didn't move here until I was 38, and am not Thai.

Trading in favors and influence is beyond me here, and the only thing I have to trade is money. That is okay for the people who only want my money. But those people also didn't seem to have social connections and were not able to help me unless I paid inflated fees, and more for their cut, and I still got the shit end of the deal, well that is not what I expect. I expect at least my money to buy some value here.

Now that I have had a b/f here who is Thai for about 2 years, I get many things for the real cost, (I think), or even sometimes for no cost at all. But this is not due to me. This is due to the fact that my b/f and his brother went to one of the most prestigious private schools in Thailand, that his classmates now usually have good, powerful positions, that many police here are his best pals, that my b/f is very popular and many people like him. If I didn't have him, I would still be up shit creek.

On my own, I cannot trade in favors or influence which is how many people here get things done. I only have money to make everyone happy. But at the prices I used to pay, I might as well go back to LA to live, because living here was not cheaper when you figured it all out.

Maybe now, just helping my b/f sometimes benefit from my money, and being able to trade the normal things in life, like getting a D/L for free even though I never have the correct visa or work permit to get one, makes helping him a good trade even if I thought he didn't love me and was only with me for money. Well that isn't what I would expect ... but at least I could say I got some things in exchange and I cannot say this about my previous Thai friends.

[lannarebirth]

Maybe you should look back on your Thai life, and see that you paid more than you should have sometimes. If you are one of the few that didn't pay too much for anything, maybe you should thank your lucky stars and donate some money to reliable charities to make up for it. And maybe you should not blame nice people as being idiots when we were being nice people and didn't understand that social obligations mean nothing here, and certain people will get all they can out of you.

On the contrary, social obligations mean EVERYTHING here - they're just not the social obligations that are applicable in Europe or the USA. As the man said 'This ain't Kansas, Tonto' and the sooner you get used to that fact the happier (and the richer) you will be.

Quite right. Social obligations mean everything here. It is financial obligations that are tenuous. Most importantly don't use finance as the basis for the society you keepl.

[MTW]

Well Lannarebirth,

What do you suggest a lowly woman do here, when she doesn't have social connections, she has money, and this isn't also bringing her social connections?

None of us farangs techinically should have social connections when we first come here, and if you don't work, are not a man who is automatically given some social power, what or where can those connections come from, especially when you only meet cheating jerks who only want whatever money they can get out of you?

I have never been treated, in any country, the way I am here, but some of this can be due to the fact that I never tried to live many places I visited, and didn't have to live or socialize with locals.

However, given the fact that I am a farang, that I have a graduate level education, that I earned a half million USD a year before I came here, I am used to getting some basic respect, even if it is only about what makes a good secretary, what makes a good hotel, if the service I am getting is less than what I have gotten in other similar countries, or even about what is my favorite color.

I don't expect that a man who has only worked as a farmer in a poor country and doesn't know the difference between antibiotics, vitamins and the witch doctor, thinks he is better than me, and therefore he thinks (and maybe others do too) that he knows more than me in all subjects. He does know more than me in some subjects. I couldn't grow a farm item to save my life. But I can easily admit that, don't try to pretent that since I am the better gender, I know more than him in every area of life. Maybe he has the true way to be a successful spouse and I don't.

But it is possible that I know more than he does in many areas also. It is possible that if you were on deaths door, you might rather have me treat you than him. It is possible that if we were in the middle of a stormy ocean, you might rather have me drive the boat home, rather than him. It is possible that wanting investment advise, you would come to me rather than him. It is possible that in a French restaurant, I might be able to translate the menu, and he would sit there like an idiot. Are these things more important? I guess it depends on if you are trying to grow some food, or trying to order in a French restaurant?

However, I have found that as a woman, and not a Thai women with connections, it is assumed that I can't tie my own shoes, hence the reason I usually wear flip-flops. But I can for sure pay the dinner bill for up to 1000 Thai people I have never met and will never see again.

[Robski]

What do you suggest a lowly woman do here, when she doesn't have social connections, she has money, and this isn't also bringing her social connections?

Find a lawn bowls club (I assume you meant that and not bowling) and enjoy a game or two. Don't talk about money, or Thailand or relationships, just relax and enjoy. Call it therapy, repeat several times a week and the world will seem a much better place.

[MTW]

Robski, where ever I talked about bowling, it was American bowling, the low status blue collar sport. But I am sure I am capable of lawn bowling also and would happily join. Do they do this in Chiang Mai?

[jdinasia]

Maybe you should look back on your Thai life, and see that you paid more than you should have sometimes. If you are one of the few that didn't pay too much for anything, maybe you should thank your lucky stars and donate some money to reliable charities to make up for it. And maybe you should not blame nice people as being idiots when we were being nice people and didn't understand that social obligations mean nothing here, and certain people will get all they can out of you.

On the contrary, social obligations mean EVERYTHING here - they're just not the social obligations that are applicable in Europe or the USA. As the man said 'This ain't Kansas, Tonto' and the sooner you get used to that fact the happier (and the richer) you will be.

TOTO ..... grrrrrrrl tragic mistake

[canadiangirl]

Just keep a tight hold on your purse and your natural caution or you'll soon finish up broke.

This is not LOS bashing, the same advice applies anywhere until you learn the local interpretation of scamming.

Hi Qwertz! Thank you very much for the heads up! I was in Thailand 7 months last year, with 3 months living in BKK at the end, so I'm not a complete newbie, but I'm definitely expecting a different learning curve once I actually move, settle in, and start working.

I guess that's what I found both so beguiling about BKK: every time I thought I understood what was going on, I realized there was a whole other layer underneath! It's like an onion, where you peel back the layer and find another layer!

I've mostly had good experiences with the Thais, but now this thread is making me worry! I had some semi-dodgy Thai friends that I quite loved, and then some more respectables Thai friend that I could go to for advice on how to deal with things. The guesthouse where I was living was run by a Thai woman from a very good family, and her farang husband (who actually married up when he married her, even if he was well-off back home as well), and she was always very helpful with cultural advice on how to do things.

I was never a fag hag back home, but I somehow ended up with a bunch of Thai gay boy friends that I hung out with a lot. Quite of a few of them were rather dodgy, but since I was not really their target market (not being a farang man), they always paid their own way when we hung out together. It was always pretty amusing to see the behind-the-scenes on their millions of boyfriends, who was sending them money, the various lies they told to their boyfriends, etc, but they were always pretty good to me. If I got lost taking a taxi, I could call them and they would give directions in Thai to the driver, they would tell me the "real" price for things, and they were generally pretty helpful. But our friendship was definitely superficial, based as it was on a mutual love of clubbing and shopping, and I would like to make some more serious friendships when I come back.

I sometimes had a sense that I was a bit of a status symbol to them, and sometimes I got annoyed when they tried to parade me around too much. They also had stories that were a bit hard to believe. One of my friends claimed he was a student at Thammasat (sp?), but I never saw him attend classes for more than a week! So I had a sense of things below the surface happening that I didn't understand, but since I never slept with any of them, and they never asked me for money, I pretty much just enjoyed my time with them for what it was.

But it's definitely good to know things to watch out for. Thanks!

Edited June 22, 2007 by canadiangirl

[bendix]

I am not, however, just getting on to this website and leaving one line comments about how "all Thai people will rip you off, so be careful" am I?

You can say that again.

For the love of God, MTW, would you give it a rest.

There is really no need to:

1) Continually tell us how badly you have been treated.

2) Reply to every single person who makes a comment, with a War & Peace length elaboration of previous posts

3) Be so damned defensive.

We know you have been treated unfairly. You've already told us once or twice. We think we get the picture.

But, frankly, there have been several posters who have tried to empathise with you about this, and you can't see it, preferring to wallow in your own self-pity.

What's the betting, I get a long 'what did i do wrong now?' type post in reply?