Adding a new aircon, need to change the too small breaker box, what should I buy ?

[thepdru]

On 9/17/2021 at 8:00 AM, rwill said:

The one I have is called Safe-T-Cut.  Don't remember how much it cost.  But it did not seem too expensive (for me at least).

 

Breakers are for saving your wiring.  Safety cut, RCBO, whatever you call it is for saving you.  Also it is important to have the correct size wiring for the breaker/load.

Some people have a tripping breaker and think changing to a bigger breaker will fix it.  Doing so can cause your wiring to overheat and cause fires.

 

 

 

I have seen this brand almost everywhere in Thailand, but it's not famous and reliable ?

 

 

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, thepdru said:

Thank you to everybody, but now I doubt about this Racer ? I know that you are expert, but, if it was for your house, would you buy this racer ? or still you think that I should buy schneider, abb or panasonic ? are they always better ?

thank you again.

 

Personally I'd always go branded, Schneider or ABB. As noted earlier you do tend to get what you pay for and if you look on any of our projects you will find, pretty much exclusively, Schneider or ABB.

 

BTiCino are also worth looking at, again as mid-budget.

 

Why not get yourself down to your local Global House, HomePro, Thai Watsadu or whatever you have nearby and have look and feel at the display units. If they feel "cheap" they probably are.

[thepdru]

40 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Personally I'd always go branded, Schneider or ABB. As noted earlier you do tend to get what you pay for and if you look on any of our projects you will find, pretty much exclusively, Schneider or ABB.

 

BTiCino are also worth looking at, again as mid-budget.

 

Why not get yourself down to your local Global House, HomePro, Thai Watsadu or whatever you have nearby and have look and feel at the display units. If they feel "cheap" they probably are.

 

 

Thanks again, I prefer to get information online first and check online because I had no idea what to buy.

 

Online it seems that only Homepro has a good choice, I fond this:

https://www.homepro.co.th/c/ELT010103?b=abb&b=schneider&b=siemens&pmin=&pmax=&cst=0&q=C-Unit&page=1&s=21&size=200#plist

 

Then selected 2 boxes, but not sure if for the same price I should get the 63 A? better than 50A?

 

https://www.homepro.co.th/p/1113207

 

https://www.homepro.co.th/p/1113209

 

Then I will check this box at local shops and buy it if similar price, or order online.

 

Is there anything else that I should know ?

 

 

 

 

By the way, I always prefer to buy equipment myself than let any technician choose for me, as even so called "experts" in this country often have some $hit in their head ???? When I buy equipment myself, at least I am sure of the quality.

 

 

THANK YOU SO MUCH AGAIN !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by thepdru

[mahjongguy]

We know very little about the OP's potential need for additional breakers in the future, so I suggest to him that he buys a panel with capacity in excess of his current needs and predicted growth. Think you should have two spare slots? Then make it four. Etc.

 

Depending on the brand and model, you can in some cases choose to populate those future slots with assorted breakers or leave the slots empty until needed.

 

With excess capacity available you'll never be tempted to overload a circuit or to add an outlet/device to a circuit that makes no sense physically.

 

Just for example, our house is a small one-story bungalow which we completely refurbished 11 years ago. We did everything per North American standards, then went a little further. Got a big Square-D Classic cabinet (mostly because we have 3-phase service), put RCBO units on every circuit that appears outdoors and/or near water (e.g. near a sink or supplying a heater), spreading it all out over 13 breakers. There's plenty of room to grow and I'm glad to have it.  

[thepdru]

6 hours ago, thepdru said:

 

 

Thanks again, I prefer to get information online first and check online because I had no idea what to buy.

 

Online it seems that only Homepro has a good choice, I fond this:

https://www.homepro.co.th/c/ELT010103?b=abb&b=schneider&b=siemens&pmin=&pmax=&cst=0&q=C-Unit&page=1&s=21&size=200#plist

 

Then selected 2 boxes, but not sure if for the same price I should get the 63 A? better than 50A?

 

https://www.homepro.co.th/p/1113207

 

https://www.homepro.co.th/p/1113209

 

Then I will check this box at local shops and buy it if similar price, or order online.

 

Is there anything else that I should know ?

 

 

 

 

By the way, I always prefer to buy equipment myself than let any technician choose for me, as even so called "experts" in this country often have some $hit in their head ???? When I buy equipment myself, at least I am sure of the quality.

 

 

THANK YOU SO MUCH AGAIN !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

someone can confirm my choice please ?

 

 

[Crossy]

7 hours ago, thepdru said:

someone can confirm my choice please ?

 

Assuming that you:-

• Have a 15/45 meter
• Have a permanent supply (about 4.5Baht per unit) - Some inspectors don't like a 63A incomer on a 15/45, no an issue if you already have a permanent supply.

 

Then I'd go for the 63A Siemens. Do ensure that you can get spare breakers, you may want to change the values from the ones supplied.

[thepdru]

6 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Assuming that you:-

• Have a 15/45 meter
• Have a permanent supply (about 4.5Baht per unit) - Some inspectors don't like a 63A incomer on a 15/45, no an issue if you already have a permanent supply.

 

Then I'd go for the 63A Siemens. Do ensure that you can get spare breakers, you may want to change the values from the ones supplied.

 

I have no idea about the meter in a condo ?

 

but thank you, I will get the 63A !

 

 

[thefactoryoutlet]

By the way, how to know the maximum watt that can be used in a condo ?

for example could you install 10 air condition ? or the wires will burn ?

I just want to have an idea of the maximum allowed.

thanks.

 

[Rampant Rabbit]

I use  this  brand, seem ok to me 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Rampant Rabbit

[Crossy]

5 hours ago, thefactoryoutlet said:

By the way, how to know the maximum watt that can be used in a condo ?

for example could you install 10 air condition ? or the wires will burn ?

I just want to have an idea of the maximum allowed.

thanks.

 

That would depend upon the size of the meter, most would be on a 15/45 with a 50A breaker. That would allow about 11kW of load, if that was exclusively A/C then a total of about 110,000 BTU running at full chat would be the limit. A place big enough to need that level of A/C would certainly have a 3-phase supply allowing up to 33kW of load.

 

Do you have a pet polar-bear?

[sometimewoodworker]

7 hours ago, thefactoryoutlet said:

By the way, how to know the maximum watt that can be used in a condo ?

for example could you install 10 air condition ? or the wires will burn ?

If you have a correct installed CU the wires will never burn as the breakers will trip on overload long before the wires get too hot. That is the job of the breaker!

[Rampant Rabbit]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

Do you have a pet polar-bear?

 

[thepdru]

hello, thanks for all replies, but can you show me oh the RCB should be connected ?

thanks again.

[xtrnuno41]

3 hours ago, thepdru said:

hello, thanks for all replies, but can you show me oh the RCB should be connected ?

thanks again.

If you have a stand alone rcbo (no breaker function), then it is in serie with the L and N from your main breaker.

Remind then the rcbo must be able to handle the total amount of amperes run from your board to all your devices.

In Thailand the main breaker is mostly 63 A (C-class), so rcbo must be able to handle that aswel.

That is when you just want one stand alone rcbo in the main power, separated from main breaker

You can see that in the Racer picture. Mostly in such a system all is already completely wired.

 

But you can buy a main breaker that already has included the rcbo. Then it is combined (one device) and you dont have to worry about all.

Very simple then power cable comes in , fit on L and N of breaker/rcbo and on the other end L and N goes further to your breakers on board. 

That one has and a testbutton for rcbo and is the main breaker(handle). You can see  on that one , it is made for 63 A( B or C class) AND

says, MUST be, delta I is 30 mA.

Those systems are also for sale and wired. Only if the rcbo might fail (it happens, it breaks down) it is more difficult to replace.

A rcbo "measures" the difference in Amp's between LIVE and NEUTRAL wire and when there is a difference between them of 30 mA, then it switches off.  But then all power is gone from your breaker board. Also in first case, however the rcbo can be replaced more easily.

 

Other option is to have only the main breaker and then all your other breakers on board have there earthleak (rcbo) detection, per group.

Meaning only power shuts off in group where problem is and all others keep on working.

In new box, you can put them in right away, when buying. But it is or... or. Not rcbo in main and on group breakers

 

In an excisting box you can replace them. Be aware of the value of the breakers and replace them with the same value and with a rcbo.

And all the rcbo's included in the breakers, MUST be 30 mA.

BUT be aware main power is off when you do so.

You say you dont know how or what. Think 5 times before acting. Electricity can kill you instantly.   

Otherwise dont do it at all if you dont know.

 

[Crossy]

17 hours ago, thepdru said:

hello, thanks for all replies, but can you show me oh the RCB should be connected ?

thanks again.

 

Did you buy one of the boxes you linked to earlier?

 

Does it have instructions?

 

[mahjongguy]

 

I've got a 16, a 20, and three 32s. The smaller two are 10mA.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by mahjongguy
totally mis-read Crossy's post

[xtrnuno41]

On 10/31/2021 at 2:48 AM, mahjongguy said:

 

I've got a 16, a 20, and three 32s. The smaller two are 10mA.

 

 

You have 7 x C32 A breakers (4,5,6,8,10,12,14), 2x C16 A (7,16)and 2 x C20 A (2,11).

I consider one 20 A as a C20 A. (11)

All the breakers with a yellow button on it, are included with a rcbo.(2,6,8,10,16)

The C16 and C20 (2,16) have a 10mA value in rcbo and the 3x C32 have 30mA (6,8,10) and they are more common then the 10 mA rcbo's. You can even see on the C32 it says rcbo, however if it has a testbutton then it always is.

 

Then there are 3 black "boxes" which dont tell anything about value or whatever they are.

As they have the little plastic transparent screen, it is a switch flag, it could be breakers but no value is revealed on top of them, as it should have. Probably very old.

It would have been beter, when the board was adjusted, you had all breakers with a rcbo and also would have changed the unknown black "boxes" as well.

Or there were several changes made in time with was done with available breakers at that time?

 

[Live Long and Prosper]

On 9/17/2021 at 11:48 AM, Pierre Hanot said:

Better call a pro for an estimate. Or 2.

Can't play with electric equipment. 

Things have to be done according to local code .and probably will need an inspection.  Play it safe. 

Things have to be done to local code and probably inspected. This is Thailand, if only they could follow code

 

[mahjongguy]

13 minutes ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Then there are 3 black "boxes" which dont tell anything about value or whatever they are.

As they have the little plastic transparent screen, it is a switch flag, it could be breakers but no value is revealed on top of them, as it should have. Probably very old.

It would have been beter, when the board was adjusted, you had all breakers with a rcbo and also would have changed the unknown black "boxes" as well.

Or there were several changes made in time with was done with available breakers at that time?

Assuming you are referring to 1, 3, and 9, they are rated at 30A, 15A, and 20A, in that order. It's imprinted on the tips of the toggles but not visible in the photo. Number 3 is not in service.

 

I don't recall, from 13 years ago, why there are three of such an old style breaker. When we switched the house to 3-phase and installed the new panel, I thought we bought all new current-model Schneiders. The 5 RCBO's were added the following year as wet and/or outdoor areas were consolidated. At 1,700 baht each I did not see the purpose of using them on every circuit.   

 

 

 

[xtrnuno41]

3 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

Assuming you are referring to 1, 3, and 9, they are rated at 30A, 15A, and 20A, in that order. It's imprinted on the tips of the toggles but not visible in the photo. Number 3 is not in service.

 

I don't recall, from 13 years ago, why there are three of such an old style breaker. When we switched the house to 3-phase and installed the new panel, I thought we bought all new current-model Schneiders. The 5 RCBO's were added the following year as wet and/or outdoor areas were consolidated. At 1,700 baht each I did not see the purpose of using them on every circuit.   

 

 

 

 

AH, ok then they are really old.

 

It is for your protection. If you, by some way, touch a life wire or for that matter a  metal casing (metal lamp, refridgerator, washing machine or what ever) , with a failure to chassis, it can cost your life.

First protection for that was to have 3 pin connections with an earth pin and a good installed ground.

All metal casing devices should have 3 pin with ground and fitted in a 3 pin socket.

 

But if you have  nice metal lamp with just a 2 pin connection, you might once could face a problem.

So the invention of the rcbo is a very important safety device, to prevent you from dying on electricity.
OK, you can say, when will that happen, maybe never. However just one moment in time is enough and you are done. SO with your box, only some groups are protected and the other ones not. 

Is it worth 1700 baht? You have to decide.

  

A rcbo detects it instantly and shuts down power, you are still alive. You will feel it but ..alive.

If you dont have one, central or on every group, it will not be shut off and you can get electrocuted.

Your heart is a muscle and cant have big surges in power, it will cramp and stop.

Even all your muscle will cramp and if you hold on to something metal , you cant let go and electrocution will continu.

Never ever try to get a person away from it, not being self protected. You have to be insulated, otherwise you hang onto that person as wel. You also need lots of muscle power to get that person loose. Better switch off the power, if possible. BUT DONT TOUCH.

 

30 mA is standard. However depends on your personal health. 

You need another shock then to revive the heart again (AED) and otherwise you are dead.

Electricity doesnt need much time to kill you.

 

So i would sincerely suggest to have at least one rcbo 30 mA in main line or have all groups have their own rcbo. The letter saves you time in finding failures and only the problem group shuts down.

In main, then all power shuts down and you need more time to find.  

 

[Crossy]

11 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

So i would sincerely suggest to have at least one rcbo 30 mA in main line or have all groups have their own rcbo. The letter saves you time in finding failures and only the problem group shuts down.

In main, then all power shuts down and you need more time to find.  

 

This is good advice, however mahjongguy already has 5 RCBOs, I'm assuming on "risky" circuits.

[mahjongguy]

7 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

... 5 RCBOs, I'm assuming on "risky" circuits.

The usual. One for each of the three water heaters and any nearby sockets. One outside one end of the house for well pump, gate motor, weatherproofed socket. One on the other side of the house for the house pump and several lamps and sockets. 

 

 

[xtrnuno41]

4 hours ago, mahjongguy said:

The usual. One for each of the three water heaters and any nearby sockets. One outside one end of the house for well pump, gate motor, weatherproofed socket. One on the other side of the house for the house pump and several lamps and sockets. 

 

 

Any life, working circuit has the potential to kill. I explained it well, i think, however it is up to you on protecting yourself.

People think so easy about electricity, but one wrong move and you could die.

 

 

[thepdru]

On 10/31/2021 at 8:21 AM, Crossy said:

 

Did you buy one of the boxes you linked to earlier?

 

Does it have instructions?

 

hello, thanks, I bought it and installed it, it's really easy, so I wonder why people make a drama for such little things ? (not you but some others)

 

so, when I push the RCB button, the breaker cuts, and I should test it regularly to be sure the system is safe ?

 

Thanks again for all.

 

 

[Crossy]

Yes^^^.

 

Now everybody who hasn't tested their RCD this year just nip out and test it now!!

 

Hmmm, it's gone very quiet, I wonder where everyone's gone