The Constitutional Tribunal Disbands Thai Rak Thai - Election cheating

[jimbeam1]

But what does all this mean to those that really matter. The ordinary person on the street?

I just hope it's not all going to end in tears.

jb1

[BigSnake]

31 May 07, 1605L so far so good, hope all remain calm.

[chuchok]

Maybe it's just me but, it's seems to me that thailand just traded one bunch of crooks for another. You can't tell me that the Junta isn't filling it's pockets as well. All you have to do is take a look at all of the new cars, homes and apartments/condo's that have come into their possession since coming into power via coup. The Junta won't give up their cash cow and go quitely into the night. Greed has always been the issue. Not just in Thailand but, every other country I can think of. I wouldn't be the least shocked to see that the judges in this case also have new found wealth. It is MHO that you will see Philippine style assasinations before the next election. Anyone (including the democrats) who dare opposes Junta rule will be taking a dirt nap or having a bonfire send off. These assasinations will be blamed on the now defunct TRT. It's just a matter of time.

Care to document any of these allegations?

Haven't you seen any of these guys on the the news getting out of new cars? If not, watch more closely.

LOL

a new car? they got out of a new .... car?

That sticks in your mind as evidence of corruption? Who owns the car? Is it a Gov't car?

Tell me more about the houses and apartments/condos now!

Correct me if I'm wrong JD,but didn't they double their defence budget as soon as they (Military junta) took power?

[gust]

Thanks hammered, A_Traveller and ozzydom for your informed, calm and sensible statements. Most people here seem not to be able to differentiate between political concepts and ideals, reality and personal likes and dislikes.

What is all this whining about how bad the other kid was?

I personally cannot understand why anyone in his clear senses and with a bit of education and respect for the law could find the decision 'unfair', like those TRT activists you could see on TV who got obviously a little too intoxicated in this game of power. But that's the way it is. It's never about the law or who's right or wrong. This is the way the society functions. Democracy is still an alien import. And as I see the future for the west and worldwide, it might get a bit out of fashion again before countries like Thailand will have much chance to make serious further steps towards it. Democracy will continue to be a nice word to accompany old fashioned politics. On ALL sides.

Explicitly, for those who can't comprehend that one can think both, A and B, are wrong: From a democratic point of view, the military governement is probably the worst thing that happened to this country since some time. Thaksin was maybe second worst. (Again, for those who'd still rather ignore this: his excesses and lack of judgement started the whole mess.) But rank doesn't really matter.

What their deeds will mean for the future, remains to be seen... I'd wish, like some hopeful posts above, that all this will turn out as positively as possible for the people, but the last 70 years of history and seeing what the military is trying to do now doesn't make me too optimistic.

Edited May 31, 2007 by gust

[jdinasia]

Maybe it's just me but, it's seems to me that thailand just traded one bunch of crooks for another. You can't tell me that the Junta isn't filling it's pockets as well. All you have to do is take a look at all of the new cars, homes and apartments/condo's that have come into their possession since coming into power via coup. The Junta won't give up their cash cow and go quitely into the night. Greed has always been the issue. Not just in Thailand but, every other country I can think of. I wouldn't be the least shocked to see that the judges in this case also have new found wealth. It is MHO that you will see Philippine style assasinations before the next election. Anyone (including the democrats) who dare opposes Junta rule will be taking a dirt nap or having a bonfire send off. These assasinations will be blamed on the now defunct TRT. It's just a matter of time.

Care to document any of these allegations?

Haven't you seen any of these guys on the the news getting out of new cars? If not, watch more closely.

LOL

a new car? they got out of a new .... car?

That sticks in your mind as evidence of corruption? Who owns the car? Is it a Gov't car?

Tell me more about the houses and apartments/condos now!

Correct me if I'm wrong JD,but didn't they double their defence budget as soon as they (Military junta) took power?

I don't know ... did they?

and does that have anything to do with houses condos and cars?

[pyrolover2000]

Maybe it's just me but, it's seems to me that thailand just traded one bunch of crooks for another. You can't tell me that the Junta isn't filling it's pockets as well. All you have to do is take a look at all of the new cars, homes and apartments/condo's that have come into their possession since coming into power via coup. The Junta won't give up their cash cow and go quitely into the night. Greed has always been the issue. Not just in Thailand but, every other country I can think of. I wouldn't be the least shocked to see that the judges in this case also have new found wealth. It is MHO that you will see Philippine style assasinations before the next election. Anyone (including the democrats) who dare opposes Junta rule will be taking a dirt nap or having a bonfire send off. These assasinations will be blamed on the now defunct TRT. It's just a matter of time.

Care to document any of these allegations?

Haven't you seen any of these guys on the the news getting out of new cars? If not, watch more closely.

LOL

a new car? they got out of a new .... car?

That sticks in your mind as evidence of corruption? Who owns the car? Is it a Gov't car?

Tell me more about the houses and apartments/condos now!

I work for a branch of government "D.O.C." I deal with Thai commerce on a daily basis. When I am invited to dinner by government offical while in bangkok. I often am invited to their homes.

So, I may see a bit more than you.

Edited May 31, 2007 by pyrolover2000

[jayjayjayjay]

All internet use was stopped, television programmes were monitored and an awful lot of people were killed.

15 years ago. Hmmm. I don't even remember I ever heard the word, internet, in Thailand 15 years ago. No disrespect, but your hushand must have quite a memory.

As early as 1990 there were about 50 BBS's in Bangkok. Communication was easy, by 1992, the time span referred too here, BBS communication, especially in journalistic world was widespread. I personally do not recall any of the systems being shut down during May 92 coup, but is possible that many did not work due to the military martial law that prevented people from going to work. Early in 1993 I registered with ksc, one of the first subscribers using Pine to communicate via email to friends around the world through Washington University. So no disrespect, but do not challenge my memory.

You connect to BBS's [directly] via a normal telephone-line, not via Internet.

So no disrespect to your memory, only your technical know-how.

TAWP if you read carefully I never said BBS required an internet connection. "I registered with ksc, which was email" so given your expertise, when can we say we did first use the internet? Emails, or only when the first www... server was installed in Thailand?

[jdinasia]

I work for a branch of government "D.O.C." I deal with Thai commerce on a daily basis. When I am invited to dinner by government offical while in bangkok. I often am invited to their homes.

So, I may see a bit more than you.

You've been to the houses of the CNS? ! Wow! Should make a good scoop for the bloggers or a newspaper! You should get pictures of all their new houses apartments condos and cars ... then get their tax returns ... and show all this to the world!!!

While your story MAY be true ... you have yet to document any of your claim.

[LaoPo]

Shawn Crisipin has another piece up in the A-Times speculating on the decrease of TRTs popular support (he has done articles on this before) and how analysis should now turn away from a possible TRT return to power and move to how the military-politcian axis wiill develop

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IF01Ae01.html

That's a quote our pro junta posters should internalize, and what that means to "democracy" in Thailand:

"The junta members' attempts to include a blanket amnesty and institutionalize a future political role for themselves through the establishment of an emergency council in the new draft constitution highlighted those concerns. And the junta's controversial bid to embolden the Internal Security Operation Command and empower it to appoint a deputy governor for each of the country's 77 provinces clearly indicate that the military intends to extend its political influence rather than return to the barracks after elections set for this year."

That links to why I was surprised at the verdict. I honstly thought Somkid and Somsak would get off so they could set up a pro-military party. Now it will be harder for the Junta to manipulate parliament directly. Particularly if the Dems get control who never quite see eye to eye with the soldiers. Maybe the verdict was not what the Junta wanted too. Though we will never know

Maybe you and I have read that article with different eyes...?

Allow me to dive a bit deeper into this article:

Thailand: One way to leave your lover

By Shawn W Crispin - June 1, 2007

some excerpts:

1. "The ruling Council for National Security (CNS) created the Constitutional Tribunal in the direct aftermath of last year's coup specifically to rule on the pending electoral-fraud charges and hand-picked the legal body's nine justices. It also unilaterally issued Decree 27, which called for five-year bans on politicians who ran afoul of the 1998 Political Party Act."

2."The tribunal somewhat controversially ruled that the order had retroactive effect, providing the legal justification for its decision to ban TRT members. As such, the decision also provides important legal justification for the CNS's military intervention and subsequent suspension of democracy"

3. "Moreover, a tribunal verdict that had allowed TRT executive members to contest upcoming elections would have raised the possibility that once in office, they would have attempted to turn the legal tables on the CNS.".....

4. "And the junta's controversial bid to embolden the Internal Security Operation Command and empower it to appoint a deputy governor for each of the country's 77 provinces clearly indicate that the military intends to extend its political influence rather than return to the barracks after elections set for this year."

5. "What's yet to be seen is whether the military openly attempts to establish and field its own political party to contest the next polls. Earlier there were reports that CNS secretary Winai Patiyakul was in behind-the-scenes negotiations with previous labor minister and TRT political operator Somsak Thepsuthin, [1] who days after the coup broke away from the party with a faction of 80 members of Parliament, known collectively as Matchima. *

6. "Somsak was reportedly preparing to establish a new political party that would have been willing to field military-affiliated candidates"

7. "Political power has always been determined through elite settlements rather than a manifestation of the popular will in Thailand, including Thaksin's spectacular rise and now equally spectacular demise. Rather than anticipating his and the TRT's possible return to power, the more relevant analysis now turns to the military's long-term plans to recalibrate the country's political balance. "

* "Note

1. Photographs of Somsak playing a friendly game of soccer with CNS leader General Sonthi Boonyaratklin were splashed on the front pages of Thai newspapers less than a week after last year's coup. "

Complete article:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IF01Ae01.html

My view?

The military will stay -in power- after the elections, one way or another....

LaoPo

[younghusband]

Perhaps my old memory is failing me but I recall that the coup was a popular one and had the blessing of HRH and many of the populace.

It was brought about because the upcoming election had developped into a sham ,thanks to thaksin and TRT.

His Highness the King at his recent meeting with the Tribunal judges told them that justice had to be seen to be done in a way that the majority of Thais could comprehend, (hence the long explanations of the verdicts and the reasoning behind those verdicts), It seems to be only certain farang who preferred to do an ostrich act .

The people around my area seem to have accepted the decision and life goes on as usual,perhaps they have more sense than the Psuedo interlectuals posting here give them credit for.

My old man used to say ,stay out of discussions on politics and religion as they always degenerate into brawls, which is probably where this thread is headed.

Yes your old memory is failing you.I could point out at least four major misconceptions in your post, but frankly I can't be bothered given your reference to "Psuedo interlectuals".The use of that expression, even when spelled correctly. is a well known giveaway of the mind behind it.

[pyrolover2000]

I work for a branch of government "D.O.C." I deal with Thai commerce on a daily basis. When I am invited to dinner by government offical while in bangkok. I often am invited to their homes.

So, I may see a bit more than you.

You've been to the houses of the CNS? ! Wow! Should make a good scoop for the bloggers or a newspaper! You should get pictures of all their new houses apartments condos and cars ... then get their tax returns ... and show all this to the world!!!

While your story MAY be true ... you have yet to document any of your claim.

Since there seems to be doubt on your behalf. I have chosen to send you these.

[stub]

As one Issanite said to me one day "just because somebody gives you money,do you think they still just might vote for who they want?do you think we are all thick?"...very good point I thought,although,it might be lost on a few people here.....

If a village was paid for and the election results did not turn out the desired way, do you think they will get any money next election? Do you think the village head man will get his kick back? Do you think some people might try to get their money back or take revenge shooting a few pigs, torching a car, dumping a dead dog into the well. Even if your village results are not identifiable in the official counts, do you trust your election officials enough that the village results won't leak? Do you trust who you give your vote to? Are they getting kick backs to ensure results are as paid for?

There are plenty of ways to ensure people vote the way desired, at a community level if not an individual level. Accepting money and not voting the way you were told is asking for trouble, and people know that when putting the X on their paper. Even if it is just a minor fear, enough people will vote as bought when it comes to the crunch beause to them it is just one vote amongst millions. But to the person who paid for them, it is millions of votes.

I can neither confirm nor deny vote buying in rural Thailand, but it is a very believable scenario. Buy villagers, or buy the headman who can sway the villagers to think the desired way. But if you buy votes with cash, you better destroy the institutions designed to keep you in check such as electoral councils, courts and perhaps the police and army, because next election people might not take the cash if they feel their lives have significantly worsened.

[ajarnbangkapi]

Hi;

There isn't any. They tried to hide it but I think it's clear to all that this verdict was a done deal and handed down from above to judge Somchai.

**Yes, sure, this was a done deal back when the military took over. If they didn't find Thai Rak Thai guilty, then the forceful take over (and the blessing of same by the top guy) would have been seen to have been an error. This is simply settling the history books question with a reason for the military to be used for the good of the Thai people to keep things on the straight and narrow, with "guidance tempered with wisdom and compassion" by the guy on top.

Keep in mind, the military doesn't WANT stability. They actually want people in the North and North East to boycott (or vote against) the next constitution.. keeps them in power.

**I think Chuan's legacy will be returned in the form of Apachit leading the next govt. Chaun always had an in with the top guy and was trusted.

It's been an exceptionally sad day for Thailand, and you know what: we've not hit rock bottom yet.

**I disagree with the bad day portion, this was an inevitable day, the sooner the better, so the process can begin to replace the military government and their censorship with an elected govt. This is the begining of the end of the military revolution I think.

I do agre that things will get worse before they get better though, I see ebpty coffers waiting for the next civilian govt, with the sword of Diamocles hanging over their head.

[hammered]

Shawn Crisipin has another piece up in the A-Times speculating on the decrease of TRTs popular support (he has done articles on this before) and how analysis should now turn away from a possible TRT return to power and move to how the military-politcian axis wiill develop

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IF01Ae01.html

That's a quote our pro junta posters should internalize, and what that means to "democracy" in Thailand:

"The junta members' attempts to include a blanket amnesty and institutionalize a future political role for themselves through the establishment of an emergency council in the new draft constitution highlighted those concerns. And the junta's controversial bid to embolden the Internal Security Operation Command and empower it to appoint a deputy governor for each of the country's 77 provinces clearly indicate that the military intends to extend its political influence rather than return to the barracks after elections set for this year."

That links to why I was surprised at the verdict. I honstly thought Somkid and Somsak would get off so they could set up a pro-military party. Now it will be harder for the Junta to manipulate parliament directly. Particularly if the Dems get control who never quite see eye to eye with the soldiers. Maybe the verdict was not what the Junta wanted too. Though we will never know

Maybe you and I have read that article with different eyes...?

Allow me to dive a bit deeper into this article:

Thailand: One way to leave your lover

By Shawn W Crispin - June 1, 2007

some excerpts:

1. "The ruling Council for National Security (CNS) created the Constitutional Tribunal in the direct aftermath of last year's coup specifically to rule on the pending electoral-fraud charges and hand-picked the legal body's nine justices. It also unilaterally issued Decree 27, which called for five-year bans on politicians who ran afoul of the 1998 Political Party Act."

2."The tribunal somewhat controversially ruled that the order had retroactive effect, providing the legal justification for its decision to ban TRT members. As such, the decision also provides important legal justification for the CNS's military intervention and subsequent suspension of democracy"

3. "Moreover, a tribunal verdict that had allowed TRT executive members to contest upcoming elections would have raised the possibility that once in office, they would have attempted to turn the legal tables on the CNS.".....

4. "And the junta's controversial bid to embolden the Internal Security Operation Command and empower it to appoint a deputy governor for each of the country's 77 provinces clearly indicate that the military intends to extend its political influence rather than return to the barracks after elections set for this year."

5. "What's yet to be seen is whether the military openly attempts to establish and field its own political party to contest the next polls. Earlier there were reports that CNS secretary Winai Patiyakul was in behind-the-scenes negotiations with previous labor minister and TRT political operator Somsak Thepsuthin, [1] who days after the coup broke away from the party with a faction of 80 members of Parliament, known collectively as Matchima. *

6. "Somsak was reportedly preparing to establish a new political party that would have been willing to field military-affiliated candidates"

7. "Political power has always been determined through elite settlements rather than a manifestation of the popular will in Thailand, including Thaksin's spectacular rise and now equally spectacular demise. Rather than anticipating his and the TRT's possible return to power, the more relevant analysis now turns to the military's long-term plans to recalibrate the country's political balance. "

* "Note

1. Photographs of Somsak playing a friendly game of soccer with CNS leader General Sonthi Boonyaratklin were splashed on the front pages of Thai newspapers less than a week after last year's coup. "

Complete article:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IF01Ae01.html

My view?

The military will stay -in power- after the elections, one way or another....

LaoPo

Just to clarify LaoPao

I mentioned the article in my first post. Then Colpyat reponded. My final response you quote was to Colpyat and was my own opinion not that of Mr. Crisipin. Maybe I shouldnt have used the word linked;)

For what it is worth it was meant to be a comment that the generals may have found it better to be manipulating some ex-TRT people like Somsak and Somkid than the Dems, so controlling parliamnet would be relatively harder with the two S's out of politics. It was not intended to dispute that the military will try and probably succeed in manipulating insitutions just that it may actaully now be a tad harder in terms of parliament.

I hope that clears it up. By the way younghusband is also arguing something similar on the Sonthi says May will be messy thread.

[Ned]

The military's not one big happy family. A lot of blokes are missing out on the spoils.

Don't tell me that the ex PM doesn't have more than a few supporters in the ranks. This might be his last chance to safeguard a lot of local assets. Does anyone else out there smell another coup?

[ColPyat]

That links to why I was surprised at the verdict. I honstly thought Somkid and Somsak would get off so they could set up a pro-military party. Now it will be harder for the Junta to manipulate parliament directly. Particularly if the Dems get control who never quite see eye to eye with the soldiers. Maybe the verdict was not what the Junta wanted too. Though we will never know

I wasn't that surprised, honestly.

The military has far better forms of keeping control than messy and not so legal interference with political parties in the day to day running of the country.

Keep certain important decision making councils, such as the ISOC out of parliamentary scrutiny, built up a powerful network of militias, and you have power without interfering. Render the future parliament rather powerless through a new constitution, get that constitution accepted with the help of state sponsored ultra nationalist volunteer organizations applying soft pressure.

The military knows that they cannot stay in power through old style interference in politics, so they do the thing a bit more subtle. But the end result is similar - they decide the future of the country, and not the people.

[cm-happy]

The vast majority of Thais are poor farmers and ,working class famlies who saw their annual household debt treble under Thaksin and TRT,

Sorry Ozzydom totally disagree with you. Yes I agree that Thaksin and TRT made responsible borrowing easier for poor people thru the Farmers Bank and local village fund, because normal, secured, bank loans

were simply not available for these people. So easy that almost ANYONE QUALIFIED FOR A LOAN!!

However did Mr. T or TRT hold a gun to these people heads insisting that they borrow,borrow borrow.

No, of course not! So now they are burdened with much debt, without a snowballs chance in H_ell of ever repaying without losing their land or house that had to be put up as collateral for the loan.

Who is to blame? The iresponsible borrowers, that instead of using the loan productivly drank, or gambled it away.

They get no sympathy from me. Let the poor march all they want on Bangkok demanding relief from debt.

[chownah]

Under TRT too much money was going to the common people and not enough was going to the traditional elite...the common people were starting to think that they actually could run the country by democratic means....their sense of ownership of the gov't was increasing yearly and the traditional elite were scared and fed up. The military took over the country to put an end to this nonsense...everything is being realigned so that the traditional elite will again be the beneficiary of gov't actions and policies...the common people have surely been shown that they will not be allowed to run the country and they had better start a55 ki55ing alot more and with increased tongue action if they want to get anything at all!!!!!

Thank god (aka Sondhi) that the social order has been restored and all is once again right in Thailand!!!.....now how to divide up the pie!!!!

[pyrolover2000]

I work for a branch of government "D.O.C." I deal with Thai commerce on a daily basis. When I am invited to dinner by government offical while in bangkok. I often am invited to their homes.

So, I may see a bit more than you.

You've been to the houses of the CNS? ! Wow! Should make a good scoop for the bloggers or a newspaper! You should get pictures of all their new houses apartments condos and cars ... then get their tax returns ... and show all this to the world!!!

While your story MAY be true ... you have yet to document any of your claim.

Since there seems to be doubt on your behalf. I have chosen to send you this.

Since my photo and personal information are on the front, I won't be showing that.

[ozzydom]

Perhaps my old memory is failing me but I recall that the coup was a popular one and had the blessing of HRH and many of the populace.

It was brought about because the upcoming election had developped into a sham ,thanks to thaksin and TRT.

His Highness the King at his recent meeting with the Tribunal judges told them that justice had to be seen to be done in a way that the majority of Thais could comprehend, (hence the long explanations of the verdicts and the reasoning behind those verdicts), It seems to be only certain farang who preferred to do an ostrich act .

The people around my area seem to have accepted the decision and life goes on as usual,perhaps they have more sense than the Psuedo interlectuals posting here give them credit for.

My old man used to say ,stay out of discussions on politics and religion as they always degenerate into brawls, which is probably where this thread is headed.

Yes your old memory is failing you.I could point out at least four major misconceptions in your post, but frankly I can't be bothered given your reference to "Psuedo interlectuals".The use of that expression, even when spelled correctly. is a well known giveaway of the mind behind it.

If the cap fits younghusband,I,m sure it fits you well, some are born with a silver spoon and blessed with a good education,others had to leave school at 13 to help support a dirt poor family,we get by on nous,humility and compassion which seem sadly lacking in your demeanour.

[jdinasia]

Under TRT too much money was going to the common people and not enough was going to the traditional elite...the common people were starting to think that they actually could run the country by democratic means....their sense of ownership of the gov't was increasing yearly and the traditional elite were scared and fed up. The military took over the country to put an end to this nonsense...everything is being realigned so that the traditional elite will again be the beneficiary of gov't actions and policies...the common people have surely been shown that they will not be allowed to run the country and they had better start a55 ki55ing alot more and with increased tongue action if they want to get anything at all!!!!!

Thank god (aka Sondhi) that the social order has been restored and all is once again right in Thailand!!!.....now how to divide up the pie!!!!

LOL Chownah

It was more like this .....

Under Thaksin/TRT those in the direst straights were set up the way a drug dealer sets up is junkies. They were given a drug and were not aware of the consequences. No the drug wasn't democrazy .... the drug was debt/loans. It wasn't hard to see where this would lead! The demand for the drug would create a population loyal to the dealer.

People with any sense ... <much of the country> could see that in the long run this would ruin the country and create such intense destabilization that it would take decades to dig out from under this debt. But in the short run MrT could sell off the state assets and make money! In the long run there'd be a new drug .. there always is!

I, just one amongst many, am hoping that a sound fiscal policy can be created to deal with poverty here in Thailand in a rational way that preserves the uniqueness that we all ove abuot Thailand and still allows for progress!

[jdinasia]

I work for a branch of government "D.O.C." I deal with Thai commerce on a daily basis. When I am invited to dinner by government offical while in bangkok. I often am invited to their homes.

So, I may see a bit more than you.

You've been to the houses of the CNS? ! Wow! Should make a good scoop for the bloggers or a newspaper! You should get pictures of all their new houses apartments condos and cars ... then get their tax returns ... and show all this to the world!!!

While your story MAY be true ... you have yet to document any of your claim.

Since there seems to be doubt on your behalf. I have chosen to send you this.

Since my photo and personal information are on the front, I won't be showing that.

You still have not documented any claims as to new cars, houses, etc .....

Cool about the back of a card though! File Clerk?

[tettyan]

I honstly thought Somkid and Somsak would get off so they could set up a pro-military party.

Which verion of Thai politics have you been following?! As former TRT leaders, I doubt the junta would trust them to form a pro-military party.

The party that looks pro-military now (whether they want to or not) are the Democrats. That's because the got off scot free (probably deserved to anyway), while TRT was unanimously found guilty based on circumstantial evidence of faulty legal reasoning.

As I understand it, the judges said the election code couldn't apply to the Democrats because the law had lapsed after the coup. Yet they didn't seem to have much trouble applying the same set of laws to dissolve TRT!

I'd be very worried if I were the Democrats right now.

[CNXagent]

The existing members are going to re-register a new party under the same name

THAI RAK THAI again??

That is so... very decieving !

[pyrolover2000]

I work for a branch of government "D.O.C." I deal with Thai commerce on a daily basis. When I am invited to dinner by government offical while in bangkok. I often am invited to their homes.

So, I may see a bit more than you.

You've been to the houses of the CNS? ! Wow! Should make a good scoop for the bloggers or a newspaper! You should get pictures of all their new houses apartments condos and cars ... then get their tax returns ... and show all this to the world!!!

While your story MAY be true ... you have yet to document any of your claim.

Since there seems to be doubt on your behalf. I have chosen to send you this.

Since my photo and personal information are on the front, I won't be showing that.

You still have not documented any claims as to new cars, houses, etc .....

Cool about the back of a card though! File Clerk?

No! Asian Commerce group Leader.... Look, I know what I have seen while on business in Bangkok. Maybe you should get out of Phuket a little more often. Try moving any product out of Thailand. Then you'll see what I'm talking about.

[jdinasia]

Pyro .... Zero documentation on new houses apartments and condos? Have you actually been to the houses of the heads of the CNS? What is Sondhi's place like? Did you take your shoes off? Was the food good? Decent bar?

and I am in BKK often thanks in fact will be there tmw!

[solent01]

Cool about the back of a card though! File Clerk?

[ozzydom]

The vast majority of Thais are poor farmers and ,working class famlies who saw their annual household debt treble under Thaksin and TRT,

Sorry Ozzydom totally disagree with you. Yes I agree that Thaksin and TRT made responsible borrowing easier for poor people thru the Farmers Bank and local village fund, because normal, secured, bank loans

were simply not available for these people. So easy that almost ANYONE QUALIFIED FOR A LOAN!!

However did Mr. T or TRT hold a gun to these people heads insisting that they borrow,borrow borrow.

No, of course not! So now they are burdened with much debt, without a snowballs chance in H_ell of ever repaying without losing their land or house that had to be put up as collateral for the loan.

Who is to blame? The iresponsible borrowers, that instead of using the loan productivly drank, or gambled it away.

They get no sympathy from me. Let the poor march all they want on Bangkok demanding relief from debt.

Yes cm-happy ,there are certainly those who borrowed from the village funds and pissed it up against the wall,but in my village there are many more who are deserted wives with kids to feed and whose only income is 7or 800kg of sticky rice , and the families with HIV members struggling to pay the extra costs associated with the disease and the old and infirmed who cannot work their 3rai anymore so rent it out at 10% of the crop, of course these folk with limited education will grasp at any straw to survive.

Their only choice to feed their kids ,buy medicine etc is a choice between the gold shop at 3%per month or the village fund or begging as I see at our door every day of the week, my wife even employs the kids of poorer families to do next to nothing after school just so they can take home a few baht with a bit of dignity.

Its called COMPASSION ,look it up in the dictionary.

[chuchok]

People with any sense ... <much of the country> could see that in the long run this would ruin the country and create such intense destabilization that it would take decades to dig out from under this debt. But in the short run MrT could sell off the state assets and make money! In the long run there'd be a new drug .. there always is!

I, just one amongst many, am hoping that a sound fiscal policy can be created to deal with poverty here in Thailand in a rational way that preserves the uniqueness that we all ove abuot Thailand and still allows for progress!

That comment is just wrong.So you are saying that people without any sense voted for Thaksin....and then you say "much of the country" could see how bad he was???Exactly how many is "much of the country"?Did these people vote Thaksin out?

Edited May 31, 2007 by chuchok

[jdinasia]

People with any sense ... <much of the country> could see that in the long run this would ruin the country and create such intense destabilization that it would take decades to dig out from under this debt. But in the short run MrT could sell off the state assets and make money! In the long run there'd be a new drug .. there always is!

I, just one amongst many, am hoping that a sound fiscal policy can be created to deal with poverty here in Thailand in a rational way that preserves the uniqueness that we all ove abuot Thailand and still allows for progress!

That comment is just wrong.So you are saying that people without any sense voted for Thaksin....and then you say "much of the country" could see how bad he was???Exactly how many is "much of the country"?Did these people vote Thaksin out?

lol if you are going to speak about the people that voted for Thaksin you should have included my whole post